On 6 December 2011 14:33, Calvin Morrison <mutantturkey(a)gmail.com> wrote: Sorry, this new gmail interface is rather annoying and cuts my emails off frequently. I think KDE4 is a higher priority. We could change file names. Especially during our renaming process. I don't feel that Tonsole (sounds like a body part hehe) would work, we could rename it konsole-trinity or tkonsole? for other apps though, it could be smooth. Tsysguard T3B, TMail TAlarm... etc

On 6 December 2011 14:46, /dev/ammo42 <mickeytintincolle(a)yahoo.fr> wrote: There are always growing pains :-)

I'm glad there will not be a blanket "brain-dead" renaming policy. A reasonable renaming effort is sufficient. Possibly there is a fine line between embracing a TDE personality and maintaining roots to the original KDE3 heritage. In that respect I suspect the main future challenge is to remain focused on our project and not get suckered into KDE4 bashing. :) Whenever TDE gets compared to KDE4 and the writer starts bashing KDE4, then the KDE4 fans come out of the woodwork. I have been watching the patches list. Tim is doing a fine job with rebranding. Sufficiently that R14 will indeed be TDE and not the "former KDE3." :) Darrell

Do we want to support running both concurrently? I agree, no. Yet there is one important reason to run both: KDE3 remains the baseline to which we know when TDE is working incorrectly. For example, my recent threads and bug reports about the Kaffeine DVB OSD. A check list of cautions will help people run both in order to use that baseline for testing. Currently I am dual booting KDE3 and TDE with mirror partitions of my base Slackware 13.1. Dual booting is, um, annoying. I have a couple of user accounts dedicated to testing. Installing TDE on my primary system would allow me to test under the exact same conditions without rebooting. I have a virtual machine with TDE installed, but I can't test everything there --- such as the video issues I discovered with the proprietary Nvidia drivers. I need to run both with reasonable safety. Hence my desire to encourage some conversation about the topic. I think there is no problem with the packages as I built everything with a $PREFIX of /opt/trinity. To avoid environment variable conflicts, I can write some snippets in my testing account's .bashrc to test when to remove KDE3 or TDE environment variables that get sourced from /etc/profile.d. As a testing account I can avoid conflicts with ~/.local by not modifying the menu and so forth. My testing account does not use KMail. I login in from the command line and therefore would avoid conflicts with differing KDMs. I have not migrated completely to TDE because until recently, several significant bugs had remained unresolved from before 3.5.12. Fortunately, recently I found solutions for most and have submitted patches. Yet I'm the slow and cautious type. :) The other day I considered moving to TDE full time and then I run into more bugs like the Kaffeine DVB OSD glitches, the Nvidia driver conflict, and of late, my inability to build KOffice. I use KMail with my primary user account and won't migrate that account to TDE until I'm comfortable I have the other significant bugs out of my way because as I mentioned, the indexes in KMail get reworked in TDE. Although I can back out of the KMail reindexing, doing so is a nuisance. :) A check list of cautions is needed to avoid conflicts with KDE4. For example, I don't know how to avoid both environments from conflicting because both use ~/.local. I have not done any testing, but I wonder what happens when TDE KDM is used rather than KDE4 KDM. I suspect using the TDE KDM to run KDE3 will cause problems. I admit I don't test for KDE4 conflicts because, um, well, I stripped KDE4 from my system. :) I did that last year when I rebuilt KDE3 to run on Slackware 13.1, and now that I am close to moving to TDE, despite building all packages for /opt/trinity, I have no real desire to install any KDE4 packages. I really do like the KDE3/TDE environment and that is why I am involved here. :) Darrell

Le Tue, 6 Dec 2011 12:50:07 -0800 (PST), Darrell Anderson <humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> a écrit : I didn't do it with KDE3/Trinity but with KDE4/Trinity I can run a regular KDE4 session, and a Trinity session as another user either in another X server or in Xnest; but I can't run both KDE3 and KDE4 as the same user on different X servers. There is no $PATH conflict since Trinity automatically adds $PREFIX/bin in top of the $PATH. But with KDE3/Trinity ld.so may get confused if Tim didn't make the necessary internal version number upgrades (and it seems libkdecore is still at 4.2.0 so it's a bad sign… with KDE 4.5 libkdecore is at version 5.5.0).

Le Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:41:20 -0800 (PST), Darrell Anderson <humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> a écrit : Excuse me, I apparently didn't read the part where you were saying that both worked separately. Since each user is separated by security policies there should be no problem running Trinity and KDE3 in parallel as different users.

Why you can't you run TDE Amarok in other desktops? Just asking only to learn about any technical reasons. Darrell

Ah, I see. I'm a regular Amarok user too. I don't know whether this will help, but in my dual boot setup with KDE3 and TDE, I ran some nominal tests with Amarok 3.5.13. Nothing unusual or unexpected happened. I did not perform exhaustive testing, but I never was an Amarok power user and would not know how to perform exhaustive testing with Amarok. But my playlists loaded and tunes sounded the same as in KDE3. Volume control worked, Pause button worked, I could hide or enable the menu, etc, and Amarok did not crash. I migrated my KDE3 profile to TDE using my migration script. Therefore, all of my Amarok settings, config files, and databases were the same. But you raise an interesting point about being able to concurrently run both KDE3 and TDE --- what happens when the TDE version breaks? As much as I am pressing here to get TDE as my primary desktop, the bugzilla contains some irritating bugs that are not yet resolved. Thus, cautious people will be tempted to use KDE3 in any transition. I know there are many patches in the bugzilla queue waiting to be merged, but after that happens I hope R14 sees a thorough scrubbing before release. That is my personal goal: that by R14, TDE is my primary desktop, if not sooner. I'm so close right now. :) Darrell

Sounds like the problem then is not Amarok TDE but the Debian package manager. Glad you got things working. I had Amarok TDE running for more than an hour yesterday. Darrell

There is a rename project currently ongoing to deal with things like that. See http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/17 for a list. It looks like KDEHOME has not yet been dealt with, but will be before the R14.0 release. If anyone else notices items that are not on the previously-linked list please add them in the TODO section. Tim