One more thing in addition to Slavek's comment. Even using the development version (R14), whenever binutils is updated you need to update also the package libr0, which has a strict dependency on the binutils version. Updated packages can be found on Slavek's repository: http://mirror.xcer.cz/trinity-sb/dists/ Given the reasonable stable state of pre v14.0.0, I would suggest you also update from tde 3.5.13.2 to pre v14.0.0. Cheers Michele

On Sunday 24 of August 2014 22:59:49 ant wrote: Lines in apt sources list can be merged: deb http://mirror.xcer.cz/trinity-sb jessie deps-r14 main-r14 deb-src http://mirror.xcer.cz/trinity-sb jessie deps-r14 main-r14 -- Slávek

Dne út 2. září 2014 Lisi Reisz napsal(a): Yes, Mint 17 is based on Ubuntu Trusty, so given APT sources should work correctly. By the way, for Ubuntu Trusty is available also LibreOffice with TDE integration: deb http://mirror.xcer.cz/libreoffice-tde-sb trusty main -- Slavek

On Tuesday 18 November 2014 22:06:52 Lisi Reisz wrote: addendum: Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] q Abandoning all efforts to resolve these dependencies. Abort. Hermes lisi #

On Tuesday 18 November 2014 22:25:52 Timothy Pearson wrote: Thanks, Tim! I'll struggle with the awful MATE for a little longer. I was part of a discussion on another mailing list recently. We could between us think of no other DE that caters for poor eyesight anyhting like as well as TDE - which caters well by being so easily adaptable, whatever ones reason for wanting to adapt it. (Mind you, MATE on Linux Mint appears to be particularly bad - again, not just my observation.) Lisi

Why do mailing lists always end up with emotional posts? No DE is awful. I use most of them, they each have their good and bad points. Attacking another DE is similar to attacking systemd or suggesting Debian is on its last legs. It is an opinion, everyone has a right to their opinions, but no one else should feel as though they are using something that is inadequate just because, as individuals, we don't like something.

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014, Lisi Reisz wrote: I agree that such discussions of opinions, based in fact and on reasonable considerations, are perfectly acceptable and I welcome them. I find them helpful (even when I disagree). F. -- Felmon Davis If ignorance isn't bliss, I don't know what is. -- Craig Ewing

On Wednesday 19 November 2014 10:17:14 Michael . wrote: I'm not trying to achieve anything. I think that for me the combination of Mint and MATE is awful. All I am trying to achieve - which is clearly achievable - is to stop using it. How do you suggest that I should have done that? That does require being able to see what one is doing, you know. I did take the time, quite a lot of time, in fact, to try to make it more usable. Even had it been reasonably possible, which it isn't and wasn't on that computer, why should I? And why should I care what happens to MATE and Mint? I wish them luck, but have no stake in whether they succeed or not, nor any preference for MATE over Cinnamon. Had the combination cared about people like me, it wouldn't have been so awful in the first place. If it didn't care then, i.e. before, why would it care now? But do remember, the main "fault" may be Mint's. If _you_ want to file a bug report, a good start for the Mint/MATE combination would be to have a visible mouse pointer (I actually couldn't see it) and legible text at first boot up. Don't tell me that anyone seriously thought that tiny light grey text on a pale grey transparent background, with a pale green pattern behind it, would be usable by the sight-challenged? I'm not complaining. Lots of people love Mint/MATE and that is great. But I am allowed to dislike it if I want. I'm not complaining, and haven't complained. I merely used an adjective to which you object. I'm switching to TDE, and if that doesn't solve my problem (I don't know how much is due to Mint) I shall retreat back to Debian (with TDE, of course). I have an emotional response when I am tired, and am struggling to see. I feel, and am, shut out. The Mint/MATE developers are developing for the young with 20/20 vision. They have that right. Good luck to them. I have the right to find the result awful, and not to use it! I am well aware that FLOSS is run by volunteers and am very grateful to them. I say so frequently, and endeavour to help when I am able with anything I use. I do too little, but I accept that I have a responsibility. But I can't and don't accept responsibility for every FLOSS project. I do help products I am using, if I can. Are you saying that I shouldn't even look at any other projects to see what I think? Or that if I want to look at anything I have to help everything? The criticism is entirely fair. From where I am standing that particular combination is awful. I have put a lot of effort in and have got it *almost* usable. But it is still awful, so I am stopping trying to use it. I'm not helping with Mint/MATE because basically I am not intending to use it. It is, from my point of view, wrong at too basic a level, for the odd bug fix to solve the problem. Tim says wait a bit, so I shall wait. But I shall run home to TDE from MATE with a sigh of relief. Your basic thesis, that one is never allowed to say anything negative about anything Open Source is clearly ridiculous. It's not as if I expect anyone to do anything about it. Is your thesis that, if people are paid to do something, their work can be criticised, but if they are volunteers then everyone has to say that the results of everything they do are marvellous all the time? Perhaps you would like to publish a list of the adjectives that one is allowed to use when mentioning anything Open Source? If you want to carry on with this, perhaps we should take it off list. Lisi

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA224 While I largely agree with the ideas posted above, bear in mind that many projects/products (both open-source and commercial) have a definite idea of what they want their user experience to be, and any attempt at deviation will result in (at minimum) wasted effort on the part of the "bug" reporter or possibly even devolution to name calling, belittling, etc. on lists. Fortunately I have not seen much of the latter but I have had numerous UX bugs immediately tagged as WONTFIX or just plain ignored by large upstream projects; this has dissuaded me from bothering to report them in the first place as I can generally spend the same amount of overall time adding a feature to TDE or coding a workaround for something missing. Molding existing projects to your UX desires is often not feasible. Even this project (and I myself) have rejected numerous UX proposals that are outside the spirit of TDE's design. TL;DR: Find something that's 90% of the way to where you like it and support it no matter what. Forget about molding something that's 50% there into what you want. Just my $0.02. :-) Tim

On Wednesday 19 November 2014 22:25:46 Michael . wrote: There IS a "technical" basis. You are just totally unwilling to read it when I type it out for you. I can't see it and I can find no way to configure it. It is designed to be almost invisible. To go in for such almost violent ad hominem attacks because you don't like my choice of vocabulary seems ridiculous. I find TDE wonderful and MATE awful. I am entitled to do so. I did give you more detail, but you obviously didn't read it. Lisi

Oh, Michael, you do like to go on. I've had enough of this. You don't even read what I do say. I don't intend to do anything at all in this scenario of yours, let alone take a central role in anything. Of course you are entitled to your feelings, just as I am entitled to mine. But this has gone on too long, and disturbed the list too long. It is way off topic. Lisi On Wednesday 19 November 2014 23:39:32 Michael . wrote:

On Wednesday 19 November 2014 21:42:02 Timothy Pearson wrote: You need to be able to see it to find out if it is 50% there. ;-) Lisi

On Wednesday 19 November 2014 23:30:05 Michael . wrote: You are not filing a bug report for me. You are filing it for you. You are the one who is going on about bug reports being filed to help the developers. I am not using Mint/MATE, and have no intention of doing so just because it is so dear to your heart. You could have fooled me!!! Why should I? I have no duty to help MATE just because I dislike it. Rather the opposite I would have thought. There are loads of projects out there. You seem to be saying that I have a duty to help every one. I'm quite happy just not to use it. You apparently are not. It is up to the developers whether they want to do something about it. They show no sign of doing so. I wish that people wouldn't try to "help" me by trying to force me to use something I don't want to use. This is just getting silly. I owe MATE nothing. I wish that I had never gone anywhere near it. I should have looked at Cinnamon if I wanted to look at either. The silliest thing of all is that I strongly suspect that most of what I dislike is in fact due to Mint. Lisi

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014, Lisi Reisz wrote: I won't say another word on this thread which has gone past its useful life except that pointing out problems in software can be _exceedingly_ useful to present or interested _users_ of the software. consider it a kind of 'review'. people with serious problems with sight now know to approach Mint with caution. and all evaluation involves expressing emotions. the manner of expression is what matters. anyway, have a good time whatever your time-zone. F. -- Felmon Davis Generosity and perfection are your everlasting goals.

On Tuesday 18 of November 2014 23:06:52 Lisi Reisz wrote: To return to the beginning of issues: Definition of conflict with foomatic-db-compressed-ppds I see as a big problem. Many other DE has it as a dependency and TDE because of this makes it quite complicated concurrent installation with another DE. If I understand well, the only effect is that with this package does not work the setup printer queue in TDE Control Center? However, the user can still set up the printer using the CUPS web interface. It is really useful to define this conflict package? -- Slávek

On Wednesday 19 of November 2014 23:06:00 Timothy Pearson wrote: Corresponding bug is 697: http://bugs.trinitydesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=697 If I remember correctly, the problem is that PPD is not compressed as individual gzip files, but "embedded" in the driver command that is used to obtain a specific ppd. See: /usr/sbin/lpinfo --make-and-model '.' -m -- Slávek