23 Sep
2010
23 Sep
'10
5:19 p.m.
Timothy Pearson wrote:
>> Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to root?
>> Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser"
icon
>> is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the trash or
>> delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
>>
>
> I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on Debian;
they can
be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
> Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply
deselect the icons you don't want
> to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to the
> old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would other
icons
because they are part of the desktop itself.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user:
jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The
reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to
delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows:
OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she
deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A
later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been
deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile
from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not
exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some
systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the
icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user
profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the
developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a
file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or
developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the
average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B
wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be
reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory
where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop
file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons
by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on
this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
23 Sep
23 Sep
5:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: [trinity-announce] Trinity pre-release freeze
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home, system and
trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group:
users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze
system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably
non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it into
a disable but that would leave the user ignorant of how to restore it.
I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop
Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all
configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Perhaps the menu item should be "Enable/Disable Desktop Icons" or we may
simply make it pertain to the specific icon and have a "Hide This Icon"
context menu item. That would still leave users ignorant of how to
restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two cents
- John
Timothy
Pearson wrote:
>> Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to root?
>> Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser"
icon
>> is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the trash or
>> delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
>>
>
> I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on Debian;
they
can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
> Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons.
Simply deselect the icons you don't want
> to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to the
> old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would other
icons
because they are part of the desktop itself.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user:
jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The
reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to
delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows:
OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she
deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A
later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been
deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile
from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not
exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some
systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the
icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user
profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the
developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a
file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or
developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the
average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B
wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be
reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory
where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop
file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons
by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on
this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
5:44 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: [trinity-announce] Trinity pre-release freeze
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson
wrote:
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home, system and
trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group:
users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze
system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably
non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it into
a disable but that would leave the user ignorant of how to restore it.
I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop
Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all
configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Yes.
Timothy
Pearson wrote:
>> Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to
root?
>> Including trash and my documents, a
strange "konqueror web browser"
icon
>> is on the desktop belonging to root and I
can not put it in the
trash or
>> delete it, this is definitely not a
"point-n-click" system.
>>
>
> I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on
Debian;
they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
> Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons.
Simply deselect the icons you don't
want
> to see and they will magically disappear.
This feature is similar to
the
> old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot
delete as you would
other
icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user:
jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The
reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to
delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows:
OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she
deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User
A
later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been
deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile
from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not
exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some
systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the
icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user
profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the
developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a
file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or
developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the
average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User
B
wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be
reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory
where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop
file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the
icons
by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users
on
this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
Perhaps the menu item should be "Enable/Disable
Desktop Icons" or we may
simply make it pertain to the specific icon and have a "Hide This Icon"
context menu item. That would still leave users ignorant of how to
restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two cents
The best way to handle this might be to trap the delete, and pop up a
message box with a quick description of how to restore the icon. However,
I'm not sure that such a change can be made for 3.5.12 due to the freeze.
Thoughts on this method?
Tim
5:54 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: [trinity-announce] Trinity pre-release freeze
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:44 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
That sounds reasonably intuitive. The primary end user behavior (press
or click delete) is preserved - John
On Thu,
2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably
non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it into
a disable but that would leave the user ignorant of how to restore it.
I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop
Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all
configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Yes.
Timothy
Pearson wrote:
>> Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to
root?
>> Including trash and my documents, a
strange "konqueror web browser"
icon
>> is on the desktop belonging to root and I
can not put it in the
trash or
>> delete it, this is definitely not a
"point-n-click" system.
>>
>
> I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on
Debian;
they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
> Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons.
Simply deselect the icons you don't
want
> to see and they will magically disappear.
This feature is similar to
the
> old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot
delete as you would
other
icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
>
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
system and
trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group:
users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze
system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user:
jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The
reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to
delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows:
OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she
deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User
A
later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been
deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile
from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not
exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some
systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the
icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user
profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the
developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a
file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or
developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the
average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User
B
wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be
reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory
where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop
file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the
icons
by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users
on
this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
Perhaps the menu item should be
"Enable/Disable Desktop Icons" or we may
simply make it pertain to the specific icon and have a "Hide This Icon"
context menu item. That would still leave users ignorant of how to
restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two cents
The best way to handle this might be to trap the delete, and pop up a
message box with a quick description of how to restore the icon. However,
I'm not sure that such a change can be made for 3.5.12 due to the freeze.
Thoughts on this method?
Tim
24 Sep
24 Sep
3:48 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: [trinity-announce] Trinity pre-release freeze
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:44 -0500, Timothy Pearson
wrote:
into
That sounds reasonably intuitive. The primary end user behavior (press
or click delete) is preserved - John
OK, it has been implemented in revision 1178835. Binary packages will be
available within 24 hours.
Tim
On Thu,
2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
> > Timothy Pearson wrote:
> >>> Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong
to
> root?
> >>> Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web
browser"
> icon
> >>> is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the
> trash or
> >>> delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on
> Debian;
> they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
> >> Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply deselect the icons you
don't
> want
> >> to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar
to
> the
> >> old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would
> other
> icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
> >>
> >
> >
> > On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
> system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group:
> users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze
> system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
> >
> > Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to
me
> "user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can
add and remove what I want.
>
> You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The
> reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to
> delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows:
> OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or
she
> deletes said icon through the delete key and
empties the trash bin.
User
> A
> later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has
been
> deleted, the only obvious way to get it back
is to create a new
profile
> from scratch (most people don't know
about /etc/skel). This is not
> exactly user-friendly!
>
> OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some
> systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for
the
> icon. However, there is no way to propagate
the change to existing
user
> profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on
first login. Therefore, the
> developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy
a
> file from /etc/skel and change permissions on
it. This is not user
or
> developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity
less accessible to the
> average user.
>
> NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When
User
> B
> wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be
> reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
>
> Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system
directory
> where the icons are stored. All users
receive the updated icon
.desktop
> file transparently.
>
> What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the
> icons
> by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian
users
on
this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably
non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it a disable but that would leave the user ignorant
of how to restore it.
I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop
Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all
configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Yes.
Perhaps the menu item should be
"Enable/Disable Desktop Icons" or we
may
simply make it pertain to the specific icon and
have a "Hide This
Icon"
context menu item. That would still leave users
ignorant of how to
restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two
cents
The best way to handle this might be to trap the delete, and pop up a
message box with a quick description of how to restore the icon.
However,
I'm not sure that such a change can be made for 3.5.12 due to the
freeze.
Thoughts on this method?
Tim
1:32 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: [trinity-announce] Trinity pre-release freeze
Timothy Pearson wrote:
Ok, now I see and understand what you have done.
You have added the Desktop Icons to Control Center, Desktop, Behavior,
Device Icons tab so they can be controlled just like the Devices are by
simply checking or un-checking a box, thanks, I like it and yes I see it
as an improvement. :-D
Sorry to give you such a hard-time about something I did not see or
understand. :-(
--
Jimmy Johnson
Debian Squeeze Trinity 3.5.11 at sda12
Registered Linux User #380263
Timothy
Pearson wrote:
>> Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to root?
>> Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser"
icon
>> is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the trash or
>> delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
>>
>>
> I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on Debian;
>
they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
> Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons.
Simply deselect the icons you don't want
> to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to the
> old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would other
>
icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam,
documents, home,
system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy",
"group:
users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze
system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the
desktop belong to me
"user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The
reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to
delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows:
OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she
deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A
later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been
deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile
from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not
exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some
systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the
icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user
profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the
developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a
file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or
developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the
average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B
wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be
reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory
where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop
file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons
by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on
this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
4956
days inactive
4957
days old
5 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
Jimmy Johnson -
John A. Sullivan III -
Timothy Pearson