30 Mar
2023
30 Mar
'23
12:59 a.m.
This has come up before, and gets discussed, but the problem seems to remain.
Is there some way that we can get the mailing list to hide our personal emails
from public view?
I created an email template just for the TDE mailing list, so that my "reply
to" address gives <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> as my email, so this works
pretty well. But if I click to reply to somebody else's post, then I find
that I often send an email directly to their personal address, and that my
personal email address is also exposed.
So far as I know, there is not a bad person who participates in this mailing
list, and I don't mind if I get sent an email directly from anybody here,
whether intentionally or by mistake. I often do the same to others. But it
would be nice if we could keep our email addresses from being exposed to
public view, and we all know some of the reasons: email harvesters and
spammers and phishers and so on.
Bill
30 Mar
30 Mar
1:49 a.m.
On Wed March 29 2023 17:59:01 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
This has come up before, and gets discussed, but the
problem seems to
remain.
Is there some way that we can get the mailing list to hide our personal
emails from public view?
I created an email template just for the TDE mailing list, so that my
"reply to" address gives <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> as my email, so this
works pretty well. But if I click to reply to somebody else's post, then I
find that I often send an email directly to their personal address, and
that my personal email address is also exposed.
So far as I know, there is not a bad person who participates in this
mailing list, and I don't mind if I get sent an email directly from anybody
here, whether intentionally or by mistake. I often do the same to others.
But it would be nice if we could keep our email addresses from being
exposed to public view, and we all know some of the reasons: email
harvesters and spammers and phishers and so on.
Email is moving in the direction of more tracking information in order
to make it easier to validate authentic emails and track spammers.
If you look at the headers of your email you will find several occurrences
of your email address which would be hard to filter out.
Personally I use different email addresses for different purposes.
(Running my own mail server makes this easy. YMMV.) If a spammer
ever latches on to mgb-trinity(a)yosemite.net I'll just change it.
--Mike
2:04 a.m.
On Wednesday 29 March 2023 18:49:16 Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
Email is moving in the direction of more tracking information in order
to make it easier to validate authentic emails and track spammers.
If you look at the headers of your email you will find several occurrences
of your email address which would be hard to filter out.
Personally I use different email addresses for different purposes.
(Running my own mail server makes this easy. YMMV.) If a spammer
ever latches on to mgb-trinity(a)yosemite.net I'll just change it.
--Mike
Actually, I only use this one email address at present. I don't like this,
because I would rather keep one email for personal stuff, another for
business, shopping, paying bills, etc., and yet others for different
purposes; my dabbling in music, for instance (for which this present email
address was originally intended). But now I must provide a working telephone
number, sacrifice my firstborn child, and sell my soul to Google or some
other corporation, and so on.
I am considering buying a server; not merely for my personal email (as that
would be overkill), but also maybe to run my own online radio station, as
leasing server space has proved to be not viable for my needs at present. But
I must do some more thinking before I take a step like that. I already
started down this path a few months ago, and found that available servers
were inadequate, as they are all changing over to SSDs, and as a result their
available space is shrinking.
If there are several email addresses in my headers (thus harder to filter),
they are all only really my personal email address & the TDE mailing list
(users(a)trinitydesktop.org). And I bcc a copy to myself, just to make sure
it's going through, but I suppose I could give up that luxury if it would be
better for filtering on the mailing list.
Bill
2:33 a.m.
I am considering buying a server; not merely for my
personal email (as that
would be overkill), but also maybe to run my own online radio station, as
leasing server space has proved to be not viable for my needs at present.
But I must do some more thinking before I take a step like that. I already
started down this path a few months ago, and found that available servers
were inadequate, as they are all changing over to SSDs, and as a result
their available space is shrinking.
I have been setting up new mail servers at infrequent intervals for
the last thirty years.
Technically it got easier - moving from horrific rewrite rules in
sendmail to simple configuration files in qmail and postfix - and
then it got more complex as we needed to configure rDNS, SPF, DKIM,
DMARC, and more rigorous and earlier spam+malware filtering. But
all of this is do-able.
The problem in recent years is that the google+microsoft oligopoly
bureaucrats have made it infinitely harder for new email server IP
addresses to be accepted on their servers. If you haven't been
sending emails for the last ten years they would rather ignore you.
If there are several email addresses in my headers
(thus harder to filter),
they are all only really my personal email address & the TDE mailing list
(users(a)trinitydesktop.org). And I bcc a copy to myself, just to make sure
it's going through, but I suppose I could give up that luxury if it would
be better for filtering on the mailing list.
The bcc is not a problem. It does not appear in the copy of the email
sent to the list.
11:52 a.m.
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 19:04:55 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Actually, I only use this one email address at
present. I don't like this,
because I would rather keep one email for personal stuff, another for
business, shopping, paying bills, etc., and yet others for different
purposes; my dabbling in music, for instance (for which this present email
address was originally intended). But now I must provide a working telephone
number, sacrifice my firstborn child, and sell my soul to Google or some
other corporation, and so on.
I've never had to sacrifice anything but money (currently to Fastmail).
You know what they say: If you're not the customer, you're the product.
None of these corporations offer "free" services out of the goodness of
their hearts.
E. Liddell
12:05 p.m.
On Thursday 30 March 2023 04:52:26 E. Liddell via tde-users wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 19:04:55 -0700
William Morder via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Another cherished illusion, destroyed. Where does it all end?
Bill
Actually, I only use this one email address at
present. I don't like
this, because I would rather keep one email for personal stuff, another
for business, shopping, paying bills, etc., and yet others for different
purposes; my dabbling in music, for instance (for which this present
email address was originally intended). But now I must provide a working
telephone number, sacrifice my firstborn child, and sell my soul to
Google or some other corporation, and so on.
I've never had to sacrifice anything but money (currently to Fastmail).
You know what they say: If you're not the customer, you're the product.
None of these corporations offer "free" services out of the goodness of
their hearts.
E. Liddell 
4 a.m.
On 3/29/23 7:59 PM, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
This has come up before, and gets discussed, but the
problem seems to remain.
Is there some way that we can get the mailing list to hide our personal emails
from public view?
I created an email template just for the TDE mailing list, so that my "reply
to" address gives <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> as my email, so this works
pretty well. But if I click to reply to somebody else's post, then I find
that I often send an email directly to their personal address, and that my
personal email address is also exposed.
So far as I know, there is not a bad person who participates in this mailing
list, and I don't mind if I get sent an email directly from anybody here,
whether intentionally or by mistake. I often do the same to others. But it
would be nice if we could keep our email addresses from being exposed to
public view, and we all know some of the reasons: email harvesters and
spammers and phishers and so on.
I volunteer to be "that person" with the contrarian opinion. Dispense
with the user's mail list and nobody worries about exposing mail addresses.
TDE is just about the only desktop environment that does not have an
online forum. Reddit and Discourse forums are popular in many Linux
distro circles. Many have both Reddit and Discourse forums. Reddit often
has a bad reputation but my experience (many years) is the computer and
professional forums are well moderated.
11:55 a.m.
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 23:00:45 -0500
Darrell Anderson via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
TDE is just about the only desktop environment that
does not have an
online forum. Reddit and Discourse forums are popular in many Linux
distro circles. Many have both Reddit and Discourse forums. Reddit often
has a bad reputation but my experience (many years) is the computer and
professional forums are well moderated.
I have no objection to a forum, but I *do* object to both Reddit and
Discourse.
Reddit is a third-party website over which we have no control. If they
decide to pull the plug, everything goes poof, and they have the ability
to tamper with posts (I'm aware that currently they don't do that, but
the current owners could easily sell out). Plus I'm pretty sure that setting
up an account would require us to give *them* an email, and I don't
trust them not to sell their lists.
Discourse has a bad habit of chasing the newest and shiniest in browser
tech. Never mind Konqueror, I had recent issues with a Discourse forum
(still not completely resolved) in Pale Moon, which is an
actively-maintained browser. Using older or alternative software isn't
unusual here, so Discourse is inappropriate for the potential audience.
If we wanted to self-host an instance of phpBB or Simple Machines or
something, that might work, but I don't know what the maintenance
requirements would be. We don't want to dump more extra work on
Slávek.
E. Liddell
12:14 p.m.
On Thursday 30 March 2023 04:55:29 E. Liddell via tde-users wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 23:00:45 -0500
Darrell Anderson via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:
Yes, I thought we already had come to a consensus not to put more burdens on
the developers; back when we were discussing Twitter versus Mastodon?
Just let them concentrate on making TDE even better, and not demand that they
maintain multiple accounts on non-free social networks.
I don't mind the idea of a forum, or something like that, but there's the
problem of where to host it. I say let's keep our stuff free - maybe not
quite Richard Stallman level, totally absolutely 100% certified pure and
wholesome free, but at least where TDE doesn't get hijacked by who-knows.
Some of our folks here run servers. They might have some ideas. Then, too,
once we get the donations redirected to Slavek, maybe we can figure out how
to get our own.
Bill
TDE is just about the only desktop environment
that does not have an
online forum. Reddit and Discourse forums are popular in many Linux
distro circles. Many have both Reddit and Discourse forums. Reddit often
has a bad reputation but my experience (many years) is the computer and
professional forums are well moderated.
I have no objection to a forum, but I *do* object to both Reddit and
Discourse.
Reddit is a third-party website over which we have no control. If they
decide to pull the plug, everything goes poof, and they have the ability
to tamper with posts (I'm aware that currently they don't do that, but
the current owners could easily sell out). Plus I'm pretty sure that
setting up an account would require us to give *them* an email, and I don't
trust them not to sell their lists.
Discourse has a bad habit of chasing the newest and shiniest in browser
tech. Never mind Konqueror, I had recent issues with a Discourse forum
(still not completely resolved) in Pale Moon, which is an
actively-maintained browser. Using older or alternative software isn't
unusual here, so Discourse is inappropriate for the potential audience.
If we wanted to self-host an instance of phpBB or Simple Machines or
something, that might work, but I don't know what the maintenance
requirements would be. We don't want to dump more extra work on
Slávek.
E. Liddell 
12:45 p.m.
On 3/29/23 9:00 PM, Darrell Anderson via tde-users wrote:
TDE is just about the only desktop environment that
does not have an
online forum.
That could be because some of us prefer the simplicity and functionality of
a mailing list with a simple, searchable online archive, like we have now.
Newer and flashier isn't always better; in fact it's often a step backward
in every way except fancy looking screens. And that's without even
considering what's already been mentioned, the additional cost and work load
of a forum vs. what we have now.
--
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participants (5)
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Dan Youngquist -
Darrell Anderson -
E. Liddell -
Mike Bird -
William Morder