On 6 December 2011 13:42, Darrell Anderson <humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Do we want to bother with making sure KDE3/Trinity can sit on the same PC? KDE

Le Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:36:31 -0500, Calvin Morrison <mutantturkey(a)gmail.com> a écrit : This still will cause pain for people coming from KDE3 and who are used to run programs by Alt-F2 or command-line. I think different installation prefixes are the only sane solution for Trinity/KDE4 cohabitation, and therefore f*** off Fedora and their put-everything-on-Program Files^W^W/usr crap.

Not going to rename those applications unless I have to for legal reasons. There is such a thing as deadly pain (too much change for no benefit) ;-) Tim

Do we want to support running both concurrently? I agree, no. Yet there is one important reason to run both: KDE3 remains the baseline to which we know when TDE is working incorrectly. For example, my recent threads and bug reports about the Kaffeine DVB OSD. A check list of cautions will help people run both in order to use that baseline for testing. Currently I am dual booting KDE3 and TDE with mirror partitions of my base Slackware 13.1. Dual booting is, um, annoying. I have a couple of user accounts dedicated to testing. Installing TDE on my primary system would allow me to test under the exact same conditions without rebooting. I have a virtual machine with TDE installed, but I can't test everything there --- such as the video issues I discovered with the proprietary Nvidia drivers. I need to run both with reasonable safety. Hence my desire to encourage some conversation about the topic. I think there is no problem with the packages as I built everything with a $PREFIX of /opt/trinity. To avoid environment variable conflicts, I can write some snippets in my testing account's .bashrc to test when to remove KDE3 or TDE environment variables that get sourced from /etc/profile.d. As a testing account I can avoid conflicts with ~/.local by not modifying the menu and so forth. My testing account does not use KMail. I login in from the command line and therefore would avoid conflicts with differing KDMs. I have not migrated completely to TDE because until recently, several significant bugs had remained unresolved from before 3.5.12. Fortunately, recently I found solutions for most and have submitted patches. Yet I'm the slow and cautious type. :) The other day I considered moving to TDE full time and then I run into more bugs like the Kaffeine DVB OSD glitches, the Nvidia driver conflict, and of late, my inability to build KOffice. I use KMail with my primary user account and won't migrate that account to TDE until I'm comfortable I have the other significant bugs out of my way because as I mentioned, the indexes in KMail get reworked in TDE. Although I can back out of the KMail reindexing, doing so is a nuisance. :) A check list of cautions is needed to avoid conflicts with KDE4. For example, I don't know how to avoid both environments from conflicting because both use ~/.local. I have not done any testing, but I wonder what happens when TDE KDM is used rather than KDE4 KDM. I suspect using the TDE KDM to run KDE3 will cause problems. I admit I don't test for KDE4 conflicts because, um, well, I stripped KDE4 from my system. :) I did that last year when I rebuilt KDE3 to run on Slackware 13.1, and now that I am close to moving to TDE, despite building all packages for /opt/trinity, I have no real desire to install any KDE4 packages. I really do like the KDE3/TDE environment and that is why I am involved here. :) Darrell

Le 06/12/2011 20:33, Calvin Morrison a écrit : I would like to be able to run my old amarok 1.4.10 in Trinity like in other DE. Most of all. (That means it could be able to find its database in ~/.kde while trinity-amarok could be installed with its database in ~/.trinity) KDE4 applications aren't a priority for me. I reported a bug because /usr/bin/konqueror (4.6.5) crashes in Trinity: it's a major bug but... it's a minor problem. -- Laurent Dard

Why you can't you run TDE Amarok in other desktops? Just asking only to learn about any technical reasons. Darrell

Le 06/12/2011 21:52, Darrell Anderson a écrit : Concerning Amarok, I only remember that I had a lot of problems to configure it and run it like I wanted to when I installed Trinity 3.5.12. So I removed amarok-trinity at that moment and never tried it again. I ran the lenny's version that I'm used to and didn't feel any need to change. But, sadly, it doesn't work anymore: libamarok_void-engine_plugin.la not found libamarok_xine-engine.la not found amarok-engine-xine 1.4.10 is still installed... -- Laurent Dard

Well, I can hear the peanut gallery in the background: the only way to know for sure is jump into the water and let everybody else know. I'm just trying to gather sufficient information to avoid anything nasty. If either desktop freezes or crashes trying to run both concurrently, that is no big deal and probably nothing more than deleting cache files before restarting. Worst case is a library conflict that causes data corruption, but during those test I won't run critical apps like KMail. As I said, although still inconvenient, fully exiting either desktop is better than rebooting. Not much, but still better. Darrell

Le 06/12/2011 23:35, Darrell Anderson a écrit : Thank you. I took the time to install amarok-trinity. What I feared happened: I spent several hours resolving conflicts with debian-multimedia and wheezy packages. I had to downgrade and remove a lot of things. But now, it works. I'll have to install it from sources because there's too much important packages I had to remove. -- Laurent Dard

Le 07/12/2011 18:41, Darrell Anderson a écrit : Apt and Dpkg aren't to blame: they are made to upgrade packages. Downgrading always need some brain cells. The main problem is that I use an unsupported system : debian testing with debian-multimedia packages. Trinity's Debian packages are for Debian stable ; they aren't fully and easily installable on Debian testing. And Trinity's Debian packages create conflicts with debian-multimedia/stable, another unofficial repository they can't deal with. Since I removed all of KDE3 and KDE4 programs, I removed the origins of the problems that are discussed here ;-) I'm really happy to run it again. But... I did some simple tests: * /usr/bin/kedit (from KDE3 debian/lenny) is using ~/.trinity * /usr/games/amor (from KDE4 debian/squeeze) stores its files in the same folder. And when I start amor-trinity, it says there is a problem with nekokurorc... And I have to kill it, edit ~/.trinity/share/config/amorrc and restart it. If I could have amarok and amarok-trinity at the same time, amarok would use ~/.trinity. And if I wanted to try amarok 2.3.1 (from KDE4), it will use the same folder, like other KDE4 programs and it will probably break the configuration files of amarok-trinity. Maybe KDEHOME can be changed into TDEHOME for trinity's programs, so that /usr/bin/<KDE3-OR-KDE4-PROGRAM> uses its own folder in ~/kde or ~/kde4. Has it already been discussed? -- Laurent Dard

I believe the environment variables are being changed during Tim's Great Big Git Migration. Last year when I rebuilt KDE3 for Slackware 13.1, I patched KDE3 to change the environment variables to KDE3HOME, KDE3DIR, etc. I patched the packages for a KDE3HOME of $HOME/.kde3 and not .kde. All of that avoids conflicts with KDE4. With those changes I probably am in a small club of people who can install KDE3 and TDE concurrently and not worry about environment variables clashing. I still need to write some modified xinit or bashrc scripts. Darrell