Hi! Is it possible to return some behavior of KDE 3.1 and KDE 2?
My impression that some things became much worser with later versions of KDE.
Namely,
- They removed the 3D appearance of Kicker. First from KDE 3.2 they removed the frame around the taskbar buttons and make the buttons larger (I would say, too large). Next, from some later release they removed 3D appearance from taskbar buttons, so they are not pushed like other buttons any more, only the bold font shows which application is currently selected.
- Is it possible to make an option to remove the thick separators from the K menu, like it was in KDE 3.1?
- In KDE2 when you press K button and then launch another application, the menu does not disappear, this makes easy making screenshots
- In KDE2 when you hover over the quick launch items, the icons are enlarged.
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and then klick on a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
- In KDE2 the frames around names of items on the desktop are dotted like in Windows and shown reliably: do not twinkle when you press mouse on another place on the desktop and always shown completely. In KDE3 they twinkle and sometimes shown only by half. The names of items in KDE2 shown exactly in the center relative to icon while in KDE 3.5 the names often shifted from the middle.
- The K menu in KDE 3.5.10 is often shifted when displayed first time after reboot or changing settings. This depends on the icon theme used: all OK with Crystalsvg but problems with Slick, KDE Classic and others
- I would also want see more exciting icon themes and Qt styles which one can see on the old 200-2005 screenshots.
If its possible that would be grand.
On 12/6/10, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
Hi! Is it possible to return some behavior of KDE 3.1 and KDE 2?
My impression that some things became much worser with later versions of KDE.
Namely,
- They removed the 3D appearance of Kicker. First from KDE 3.2 they removed
the frame around the taskbar buttons and make the buttons larger (I would say, too large). Next, from some later release they removed 3D appearance from taskbar buttons, so they are not pushed like other buttons any more, only the bold font shows which application is currently selected.
- Is it possible to make an option to remove the thick separators from the K
menu, like it was in KDE 3.1?
- In KDE2 when you press K button and then launch another application, the
menu does not disappear, this makes easy making screenshots
- In KDE2 when you hover over the quick launch items, the icons are
enlarged.
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and then klick on a
folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
- In KDE2 the frames around names of items on the desktop are dotted like in
Windows and shown reliably: do not twinkle when you press mouse on another place on the desktop and always shown completely. In KDE3 they twinkle and sometimes shown only by half. The names of items in KDE2 shown exactly in the center relative to icon while in KDE 3.5 the names often shifted from the middle.
- The K menu in KDE 3.5.10 is often shifted when displayed first time after
reboot or changing settings. This depends on the icon theme used: all OK with Crystalsvg but problems with Slick, KDE Classic and others
- I would also want see more exciting icon themes and Qt styles which one
can see on the old 200-2005 screenshots.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 08:15, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
Hi! Is it possible to return some behavior of KDE 3.1 and KDE 2?
My impression that some things became much worser with later versions of KDE.
Namely,
- They removed the 3D appearance of Kicker. First from KDE 3.2 they removed
the frame around the taskbar buttons and make the buttons larger (I would say, too large). Next, from some later release they removed 3D appearance from taskbar buttons, so they are not pushed like other buttons any more, only the bold font shows which application is currently selected.
That would be a nice option.
- Is it possible to make an option to remove the thick separators from the K
menu, like it was in KDE 3.1?
Again, an option.
- In KDE2 when you press K button and then launch another application, the
menu does not disappear, this makes easy making screenshots
Could you not just launch the application, hit the K Menu, then use the print screen button?
- In KDE2 when you hover over the quick launch items, the icons are enlarged.
Never used KDE2, but that doesn't sound like a bad idea.
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and then klick on a
folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
That's basically what Windows does with the "Show Desktop", and it's a good idea. That should actually be default, it's easier. (make an option again?)
- In KDE2 the frames around names of items on the desktop are dotted like in
Windows and shown reliably: do not twinkle when you press mouse on another place on the desktop and always shown completely. In KDE3 they twinkle and sometimes shown only by half. The names of items in KDE2 shown exactly in the center relative to icon while in KDE 3.5 the names often shifted from the middle.
- The K menu in KDE 3.5.10 is often shifted when displayed first time after
reboot or changing settings. This depends on the icon theme used: all OK with Crystalsvg but problems with Slick, KDE Classic and others
Never had this problem?
- I would also want see more exciting icon themes and Qt styles which one can
see on the old 200-2005 screenshots.
I'd rather have the new Qt4 styles, frankly.
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 01:03:09 Robert Xu wrote:
- In KDE2 when you press K button and then launch another application,
the menu does not disappear, this makes easy making screenshots
Could you not just launch the application, hit the K Menu, then use the print screen button?
Currently, no. If you want to make a screenshot with menu, you have to specify time delay in KSnapshot.
- In KDE2 when you hover over the quick launch items, the icons are
enlarged.
Never used KDE2, but that doesn't sound like a bad idea.
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and then klick on
a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
That's basically what Windows does with the "Show Desktop", and it's a good idea. That should actually be default, it's easier. (make an option again?)
Not only in Windows, but also in Gnome.
- In KDE2 the frames around names of items on the desktop are dotted like
in Windows and shown reliably: do not twinkle when you press mouse on another place on the desktop and always shown completely. In KDE3 they twinkle and sometimes shown only by half. The names of items in KDE2 shown exactly in the center relative to icon while in KDE 3.5 the names often shifted from the middle.
- The K menu in KDE 3.5.10 is often shifted when displayed first time
after reboot or changing settings. This depends on the icon theme used: all OK with Crystalsvg but problems with Slick, KDE Classic and others
Never had this problem?
Very notorious one. Makes most icon themes unusable for me. Also depends on Qt style (in CDE style for example this problem appears with the themes with which no problems in other styles).
Maybe this is because some icon files have incorrect dimentions or format specified. If to remove some icon files fron an icon theme it is possible to get rid of this bug. Another workaround is to use alternate K menu applet.
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 01:03:09 Robert Xu wrote:
- In KDE2 when you press K button and then launch another application,
the menu does not disappear, this makes easy making screenshots
Could you not just launch the application, hit the K Menu, then use the print screen button?
Currently, no. If you want to make a screenshot with menu, you have to specify time delay in KSnapshot.
- In KDE2 when you hover over the quick launch items, the icons are
enlarged.
Never used KDE2, but that doesn't sound like a bad idea.
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and then klick
on
a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
That's basically what Windows does with the "Show Desktop", and it's a good idea. That should actually be default, it's easier. (make an option again?)
Not only in Windows, but also in Gnome.
This is a good idea.
- In KDE2 the frames around names of items on the desktop are dotted
like
in Windows and shown reliably: do not twinkle when you press mouse on another place on the desktop and always shown completely. In KDE3 they twinkle and sometimes shown only by half. The names of items in KDE2 shown exactly in the center relative to icon while in KDE 3.5 the names often shifted from the middle.
I think one of the better ways to handle this is what XFCE does. Also, the selection itself should do away with the dots and adopt transparency. Please see the attachment.
- The K menu in KDE 3.5.10 is often shifted when displayed first time
after reboot or changing settings. This depends on the icon theme used: all OK with Crystalsvg but problems with Slick, KDE Classic and others
Never had this problem?
Very notorious one. Makes most icon themes unusable for me. Also depends on Qt style (in CDE style for example this problem appears with the themes with which no problems in other styles).
Maybe this is because some icon files have incorrect dimentions or format specified. If to remove some icon files fron an icon theme it is possible to get rid of this bug. Another workaround is to use alternate K menu applet.
I think the menu button needs work. By default it should stand out as something that stands out from all the other icons, much like in windows(which is an unfortunate comparison but...).
Best regards, Tiago
The picture I mentioned but forgot to attach.
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 01:03:09 Robert Xu wrote:
- In KDE2 when you press K button and then launch another application,
the menu does not disappear, this makes easy making screenshots
Could you not just launch the application, hit the K Menu, then use the print screen button?
Currently, no. If you want to make a screenshot with menu, you have to specify time delay in KSnapshot.
- In KDE2 when you hover over the quick launch items, the icons are
enlarged.
Never used KDE2, but that doesn't sound like a bad idea.
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and then klick
on
a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5
all
windows restored.
That's basically what Windows does with the "Show Desktop", and it's a good idea. That should actually be default, it's easier. (make an option again?)
Not only in Windows, but also in Gnome.
This is a good idea.
- In KDE2 the frames around names of items on the desktop are dotted
like
in Windows and shown reliably: do not twinkle when you press mouse on another place on the desktop and always shown completely. In KDE3 they twinkle and sometimes shown only by half. The names of items in KDE2 shown exactly in the center relative to icon while in KDE 3.5 the
names
often shifted from the middle.
I think one of the better ways to handle this is what XFCE does. Also, the selection itself should do away with the dots and adopt transparency. Please see the attachment.
- The K menu in KDE 3.5.10 is often shifted when displayed first time
after reboot or changing settings. This depends on the icon theme
used:
all OK with Crystalsvg but problems with Slick, KDE Classic and others
Never had this problem?
Very notorious one. Makes most icon themes unusable for me. Also depends on Qt style (in CDE style for example this problem appears with the themes with which no problems in other styles).
Maybe this is because some icon files have incorrect dimentions or format specified. If to remove some icon files fron an icon theme it is possible to get rid of this bug. Another workaround is to use alternate K menu applet.
I think the menu button needs work. By default it should stand out as something that stands out from all the other icons, much like in windows(which is an unfortunate comparison but...).
Best regards, Tiago
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 10:03 PM, Robert Xu robxu9@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 08:15, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
Hi! Is it possible to return some behavior of KDE 3.1 and KDE 2?
My impression that some things became much worser with later versions of
KDE.
Namely,
- They removed the 3D appearance of Kicker. First from KDE 3.2 they
removed
the frame around the taskbar buttons and make the buttons larger (I would say, too large). Next, from some later release they removed 3D appearance from taskbar buttons, so they are not pushed like other buttons any more, only the bold font shows which application is currently selected.
That would be a nice option.
Well, I personally love the "elegant" button style. The bolding of names or shading of icons and letters to indicate which apps are open, in background or foreground is unmatched by most DE:
Active - Bold font, icons not shaded Background - Regular font, icons not shaded Minimized - Regular font, icons and font shaded
This makes it very easy to know the apps state at a slight glance, which is more than I can say for Gnome/XFCE:
Active - Regular font, icons not shaded, pressed button (is ok) Background - Regular font, icons not shaded, no button, which is what I think you mean by "2D" (also ok) Minimized - Regular font, title between [ ], icon shaded (this, to me needs work on their part)
This makes it harder to identify which apps are minimized at a glance, since you have to actually read the names to look for the [ ]s.
Still, in KDE 3.5 you have the "classic" option which gives it some 3D look, although I admit it is not great and the select app button should not be slightly darker but:
Active - Look pressed, non bold folt, slightly darker button. Background - Normal button, normal font Minimized - Normal button, icon and font shaded.
To me this is suboptimal and there's no feedback when you're hovering the mouse icon over the buttons. Transparency is not optimal, to me, but some people like that mode and it is kind of decent in 3.5. I guess the look you describe can be made very nice with some work and may be worth pursuing sometime.
May only complaint with elegant is that perhaps there's a way to make the active button standout without using bold font, which is not so easy to read, but it still is so functional that it doesn't feel worth changing. Perhaps because the dark font stands out so much on the light theme I use, compared to a pressed button or a colored one. What makes elegant even better is the feedback of something happening in a background app is first shown by blinking a colored button and then by having it stay fixed at that color after a short time - this to me is remarkably well done. This would probably conflict with the use of a colored button for the active app.
I have tried many themes in KDE 4, while pondering a migration to that but have been left disappointed not just by the taskbar but by the overall DE. One or two themes did a good job of transmit the state of the apps but they were far and few.
Please see the screenshots for details on my current config. I use a left vertical icon sidebar, for years now, which is similar to Ubuntu's unity. That is also something I miss in KDE 4, since you can't configure panels with such flexibility. With screens now having grown a lot in width, it is probably something work exploring.
- Is it possible to make an option to remove the thick separators from
the K
menu, like it was in KDE 3.1?
Again, an option.
- In KDE2 when you press K button and then launch another application,
the
menu does not disappear, this makes easy making screenshots
Could you not just launch the application, hit the K Menu, then use the print screen button?
- In KDE2 when you hover over the quick launch items, the icons are
enlarged.
Never used KDE2, but that doesn't sound like a bad idea.
You have an option to launch an elegant tooltip, similar to what is shown in the kickerElegant.png when I have the mouse over one of the taskbar's buttons. I would like to see that though, do you have any screenshot? I have only been a KDE user since 3.1
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and then klick on
a
folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all
windows
restored.
That's basically what Windows does with the "Show Desktop", and it's a good idea. That should actually be default, it's easier. (make an option again?)
- In KDE2 the frames around names of items on the desktop are dotted like
in
Windows and shown reliably: do not twinkle when you press mouse on
another
place on the desktop and always shown completely. In KDE3 they twinkle
and
sometimes shown only by half. The names of items in KDE2 shown exactly in
the
center relative to icon while in KDE 3.5 the names often shifted from the middle.
- The K menu in KDE 3.5.10 is often shifted when displayed first time
after
reboot or changing settings. This depends on the icon theme used: all OK
with
Crystalsvg but problems with Slick, KDE Classic and others
Never had this problem?
- I would also want see more exciting icon themes and Qt styles which one
can
see on the old 200-2005 screenshots.
I'd rather have the new Qt4 styles, frankly.
I still find plastic kind of great and knifty for the windows, but they do show their age. As someone who wrote just a few lines of Qt3 code, what are the odds of porting some KDE4 styles to KDE3?
Best regards, Tiago
-- later, Robert Xu
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
Still, in KDE 3.5 you have the "classic" option which gives it some 3D look, although I admit it is not great and the select app button should not be slightly darker but:
This only makes fake 3D look: the app buttons look as buttons but they could not be pressed: when selected they are not pushed, so the button-like look is delusive. This creates a dissonance: you push a button, and it does not push. I think in 3D "classical" mode it should be pushed just like in KDE2/3.1
Yes, of course, I agree with you. Indeed it is not very well designed.
Best regards, Tiago
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
Still, in KDE 3.5 you have the "classic" option which gives it some 3D look, although I admit it is not great and the select app button should
not
be slightly darker but:
This only makes fake 3D look: the app buttons look as buttons but they could not be pressed: when selected they are not pushed, so the button-like look is delusive. This creates a dissonance: you push a button, and it does not push. I think in 3D "classical" mode it should be pushed just like in KDE2/3.1
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
You have an option to launch an elegant tooltip, similar to what is shown in the kickerElegant.png when I have the mouse over one of the taskbar's buttons. I would like to see that though, do you have any screenshot? I have only been a KDE user since 3.1
http://static.itmages.ru/i/10/1209/h_1291885165_72486163ef.png
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
You have an option to launch an elegant tooltip, similar to what is shown in the kickerElegant.png when I have the mouse over one of the taskbar's buttons. I would like to see that though, do you have any screenshot? I have only been a KDE user since 3.1
Working link: http://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/10/1209/h_1291885165_72486163ef.png
Properly implemented may be useful indeed. What are your thoughts on the popup that is present on KDE 3.5, which also shows the icon?
Best regards, Tiago
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
You have an option to launch an elegant tooltip, similar to what is shown in the kickerElegant.png when I have the mouse over one of the taskbar's buttons. I would like to see that though, do you have any screenshot? I have only been a KDE user since 3.1
Working link: http://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/10/1209/h_1291885165_72486163ef.png
I find this all restore behavior a nuisance. It impedes my ability to work seemlesly. I guess, for others it can be useful. The most logical course would be to make either behavior an option.
For what its worth
Kate
On 12/11/10, Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
Properly implemented may be useful indeed. What are your thoughts on the popup that is present on KDE 3.5, which also shows the icon?
Best regards, Tiago
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
You have an option to launch an elegant tooltip, similar to what is shown in the kickerElegant.png when I have the mouse over one of the taskbar's buttons. I would like to see that though, do you have any screenshot? I have only been a KDE user since 3.1
Working link: http://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/10/1209/h_1291885165_72486163ef.png
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
I still find plastic kind of great and knifty for the windows, but they do show their age. As someone who wrote just a few lines of Qt3 code, what are the odds of porting some KDE4 styles to KDE3?
There is a Domino style in the repository, which is very similar to Oxygen.
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:28, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
I still find plastic kind of great and knifty for the windows, but they do show their age. As someone who wrote just a few lines of Qt3 code, what are the odds of porting some KDE4 styles to KDE3?
There is a Domino style in the repository, which is very similar to Oxygen.
I found this in KDE:KDE3, maybe this could suffice? https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=kde3-oxygen-icon-theme&p... (kde3-oxygen-icon-theme)
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen+Icon+Theme+for+KDE3?content=7904...
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen+Icon+Theme+for+KDE3?content=79046Your link is now broken. We talking about the widget theme IIRC, not the icon theme. IMHO, the Oxygen icon theme is very weak in a lot of aspects, the default KDE 3 icon style is better overall. It is far from perfect but I consider it fairly better than Oxygen, as it tends to have overly detailed icons which aren't good when used in typical resolution devices (e.g. 1024x768).
Best regards
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Robert Xu robxu9@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:28, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 04:17:09 Tiago Marques wrote:
I still find plastic kind of great and knifty for the windows, but they
do
show their age. As someone who wrote just a few lines of Qt3 code, what
are
the odds of porting some KDE4 styles to KDE3?
There is a Domino style in the repository, which is very similar to
Oxygen.
I found this in KDE:KDE3, maybe this could suffice?
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=kde3-oxygen-icon-theme&p... (kde3-oxygen-icon-theme)
-- later, Robert Xu
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and
then klick on a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
I find this irritating too. Yet the recent responses indicate others like this behavior. This discussion is a great example of the either-or mentality adopted by many programmers. Somebody decides which method is preferred and the remaining people suffer.
The solution is obvious: provide both options and let the user decide.
Perhaps an enhancement request against this behavior should be filed?
ditto.
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.comwrote:
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and
then klick on a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
I find this irritating too. Yet the recent responses indicate others like this behavior. This discussion is a great example of the either-or mentality adopted by many programmers. Somebody decides which method is preferred and the remaining people suffer.
The solution is obvious: provide both options and let the user decide.
Perhaps an enhancement request against this behavior should be filed?
- In KDE2 when you press "minimize all windows" button and
then klick on a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a window. In KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
I find this irritating too. Yet the recent responses indicate others like this behavior. This discussion is a great example of the either-or mentality adopted by many programmers. Somebody decides which method is preferred and the remaining people suffer.
The solution is obvious: provide both options and let the user decide.
Perhaps an enhancement request against this behavior should be filed?
Sure! Mention that it is in kdebase, in the NET window handler code.
Tim
Enhancement request 386 filed.
- In KDE2 when you press
"minimize all windows" button and
then klick on a folder on desktop, only that folder opens in a
window. In
KDE 3.5 all windows restored.
I find this irritating too. Yet the recent responses
indicate others like
this behavior. This discussion is a great example of
the either-or
mentality adopted by many programmers. Somebody
decides which method is
preferred and the remaining people suffer.
The solution is obvious: provide both options and let
the user decide.
Perhaps an enhancement request against this behavior
should be filed?
Sure! Mention that it is in kdebase, in the NET window handler code.
On 11.12.2010 20:22, Darrell Anderson wrote:
I find this irritating too. Yet the recent responses indicate others like this behavior. This discussion is a great example of the either-or mentality adopted by many programmers. Somebody decides which method is preferred and the remaining people suffer.
The solution is obvious: provide both options and let the user decide.
Perhaps an enhancement request against this behavior should be filed?
I'm glad that someone noticed that, this is really irritating :)
-
Darrell Anderson -
Ilya Chernykh -
Katheryne Draven -
Ozan Çağlayan -
Robert Xu -
Tiago Marques -
Timothy Pearson