Also true. Still, I find it that the whole departure to Dolphin in KDE4 was far from ideal still. Profile handling well would be better. No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that many errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while were absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify scrapping it.
2011/1/7 Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru
Also true. Still, I find it that the whole departure to Dolphin in KDE4 was far from ideal still. Profile handling well would be better.
No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that many errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while were absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify scrapping it.
What errors are these errors? I haven't used Dolphin extensively, but in
the few times I did use it I did not notice any problems.
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 21:58, Kristopher Gamrat pikidalto@gmail.com wrote:
2011/1/7 Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru
Also true. Still, I find it that the whole departure to Dolphin in KDE4 was far from ideal still. Profile handling well would be better.
No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that many errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while were absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify scrapping it.
What errors are these errors? I haven't used Dolphin extensively, but in the few times I did use it I did not notice any problems.
Sorry, I'm going to give in to the KDE 4.6 RC. Dolphin seems to be working much better. (I actually got impressed, which is... amazing.) Konqueror, on the other hand, is still a piece of crap. (why don't they just make rekonq the default and kill konqueror...)
Truthfully, I'm using Dolphin for KDE3 (D3olphin, I think it's called) because Konqueror is making me pull hair. but I'm wondering if maybe there could be a ReKonq for kde3? lol. Either that, or we'll wait for tQT to mature for Qt4.
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Robert Xu robxu9@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 21:58, Kristopher Gamrat pikidalto@gmail.com wrote:
2011/1/7 Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru
Also true. Still, I find it that the whole departure to Dolphin in KDE4 was far from ideal still. Profile handling well would be better.
No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that many errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while
were
absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify scrapping it.
What errors are these errors? I haven't used Dolphin extensively, but in
the
few times I did use it I did not notice any problems.
Sorry, I'm going to give in to the KDE 4.6 RC. Dolphin seems to be working much better. (I actually got impressed, which is... amazing.) Konqueror, on the other hand, is still a piece of crap. (why don't they just make rekonq the default and kill konqueror...)
Truthfully, I'm using Dolphin for KDE3 (D3olphin, I think it's called) because Konqueror is making me pull hair. but I'm wondering if maybe there could be a ReKonq for kde3? lol. Either that, or we'll wait for tQT to mature for Qt4.
-- later, Robert Xu
Kinda makes me wander, why is Konqueror so hated? I'll agree, it doesn't make a good browser (or at least, KHTML doesn't make a great renderer), but I've had no problems at all with any of it's file manager functions (except the fish:// protocol that I was using at some point as a means to transfer files over SSH, I eventually switched to SFTP which works great).
I haven't personally used rekonq, so I can't comment on it, but Dolphin (D3lphin for KDE3) is too simplified for my liking. I did mention that it may be great for new users (and, I'll add here, long time users who like things simple), but for someone like me who does a lot (sometime too much) at once and who tries to do as much as possible in as little open windows (and effort) possible, Konqueror just "does it" for me in file manager mode -- and I'm sort of attached to the interface. (for those who want to know what I do with Konqueror, I usually (almost always) have several directories open, maybe a flash storage device, sometimes a CD, and (in case I need to upload/download something via ssh) SFTP -- all of which work perfect for me)
Of course I can understand personal preference and I understand even advanced users may prefer Dolphin, but something I've always encouraged others on (and follow through with myself) is to not attack something unless you can provide reason. If you want to say it's not a good browser for such and such a reason (and I'd likely agree), fine. But I've yet to see why it's not a good file manager. Perhaps regular FTP if we can get the error, but file manager has always worked quite well in Konqueror. (warning: random soap box moment) I'm not trying to criticize the personal opinions of others here, it just helps when reason is provided and helps people to at least understand the criticism (which can help people get along, which I've had trouble with as far as vague or (almost) non-existent reasons are concerned), even if they don't agree. Also, I've seen flame wars where both sides criticize each other with little or no reason provided, and both sides fuming or getting banned or looking like complete idiots (not saying we'll end up flaming here, nor trying to insult).
On Saturday 08 January 2011 06:16:04 Robert Xu wrote:
Truthfully, I'm using Dolphin for KDE3 (D3olphin, I think it's called) because Konqueror is making me pull hair.
Konqueror is an universal file manager with multiple modes: navigational, spatial, multi-panel. Doplin is a narrow use file manager with only one, navigational mode. Dolphin is just a stump both unusable, un-functional and ugly-looking.
There was nothing created in IT industry as flexible as Konq. The only drawback with it in KDE3 is broken profile management system.
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 3:16 AM, Robert Xu robxu9@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 21:58, Kristopher Gamrat pikidalto@gmail.com wrote:
2011/1/7 Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru
Also true. Still, I find it that the whole departure to Dolphin in KDE4 was far from ideal still. Profile handling well would be better.
No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that many errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while
were
absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify scrapping it.
What errors are these errors? I haven't used Dolphin extensively, but in
the
few times I did use it I did not notice any problems.
Sorry, I'm going to give in to the KDE 4.6 RC. Dolphin seems to be working much better. (I actually got impressed, which is... amazing.) Konqueror, on the other hand, is still a piece of crap. (why don't they just make rekonq the default and kill konqueror...)
It has some interesting features, though I haven't had the perception that it is significantly better - I may be wrong but my initial impression wasn't great.
Best regards
Truthfully, I'm using Dolphin for KDE3 (D3olphin, I think it's called) because Konqueror is making me pull hair. but I'm wondering if maybe there could be a ReKonq for kde3? lol. Either that, or we'll wait for tQT to mature for Qt4.
-- later, Robert Xu
On Saturday 08 January 2011 05:58:38 Kristopher Gamrat wrote:
No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that many errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while were absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify scrapping it.
What errors are these errors? I haven't used Dolphin extensively, but in
the few times I did use it I did not notice any problems.
I was talking about KDE3 and not about Dolphin, but about errors in profiling of Konq.
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Saturday 08 January 2011 05:58:38 Kristopher Gamrat wrote:
No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that
many
errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while were absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify
scrapping
it.
What errors are these errors? I haven't used Dolphin extensively, but
in
the few times I did use it I did not notice any problems.
I was talking about KDE3 and not about Dolphin, but about errors in profiling of Konq.
The second sentence ("Dolphin is completely unusable") makes it look like you're referring to errors in Dolphin.
Hi Ilya,
Would you mind listing those errors "introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10"? I'm interested in seeing them listed, so as to help fixing some of them rapidly.
Regards Chris
Le Fri, 07 Jan 2011 23:10:25 +0100, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru a écrit:
Also true. Still, I find it that the whole departure to Dolphin in KDE4 was far from ideal still. Profile handling well would be better. No doubt. Dolphin is completely unusable. There are just some errors in profile handling scripts which should be fixed. Also I noticed that many errors were introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10 while were absent previously. Seems like a marketing move to justify scrapping it.
On Saturday 08 January 2011 11:50:05 chr4pc wrote:
Would you mind listing those errors "introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10"? I'm interested in seeing them listed, so as to help fixing some of them rapidly.
I am not sure if they all were introduced in final version, but most of them were absent from earlier releases:
1. Problems with profiling.
- The toolbars when enabled in Konq once in any profile (even without profile saving), appear in all profiles. Impossible to disable them (can be removed from individual windows, but new windows open with toolbars). - The navigation panel once enabled saves into profile even without save command. To remove it from profile one needs to explicitely save profile without navbar. - Drives in Storage Media and any folders opened from those drives open in Web Browsing profile, not in File Management profile. - Many other instances when changes made in one profile affect all others.
2. Problems with file associations
- Some file types are opened in internal Konq viewer even dispite explicit setting to open them in external application - Internal viewer of Konq does not respect the Konq-wide setting to open folders in new windows, thus text files, for example are opened in the same Konq window. Setting to use external viewer with command-line with a call to Konq is ignored: Konq does not call new Konq instance in new window. - If to delete file association and then create a new file association with new name, the new one becomes broken and its settings impossible to edit.
3. Problems with Kicker
- The K-menu appears with shift from the expected position when first called after reboot or changing KDE settings. This happens with some icon themes and does not with others (does not happen with Crystal, happens with Slick, KDE Classic). See this screenshot: http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501136_a588cd5da5.png
- The buttons on the taskbar are not pushed even when selected, even if Classic view is enabled.
4. Problems with desktop
- Names of some icons on the desktop are shown with incomplete dotted frame, see these screenshots: http://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501420_29ca819b25.png http://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501455_1c83682e95.png
- If to create a file on the desktop with the same name as a name of a recently deleted file, the file appears on the desktop with a strange name, while its actual name in the desktop folder is correct. The icon on the desktop is non-functional, the file cannot be opened nor deleted with this icon. But when the actual file is deleted the fake icon also disappears. See the screenshot: http://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294504085_737cc4b3ae.png
5. Problems with common dialogs
- In the file open/save dialogs the items in the quick access bar appear with small icons and the discription to the right of it. Even the standard items do not fit in that space and the width of that column cannot be increased: http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294503644_9cc8d824db.png
Apparently the bar was designed for big icons and descriptions below, a layout for which it is ideally suitable: http://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294503727_62bddf5c7a.png This layout can be enabled per application, but not system-wide.
- Some dialogs cannot resize large icons properly so the icons appear with huge dimentions:
http://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294504235_32eea56499.png
Hi Ilya,
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Saturday 08 January 2011 11:50:05 chr4pc wrote:
Would you mind listing those errors "introduced in KDE3 in final versions such as 3.5.10"? I'm interested in seeing them listed, so as to help fixing some of them rapidly.
I am not sure if they all were introduced in final version, but most of them were absent from earlier releases:
- Problems with profiling.
- The toolbars when enabled in Konq once in any profile (even without
profile saving), appear in all profiles. Impossible to disable them (can be removed from individual windows, but new windows open with toolbars).
- The navigation panel once enabled saves into profile even without save
command. To remove it from profile one needs to explicitely save profile without navbar.
- Drives in Storage Media and any folders opened from those drives open in
Web Browsing profile, not in File Management profile.
- Many other instances when changes made in one profile affect all others.
These would be nice to fix.
- Problems with file associations
- Some file types are opened in internal Konq viewer even dispite explicit
setting to open them in external application
Can you provide details, haven't personally had a problem with this.
- Internal viewer of Konq does not respect the Konq-wide setting to open
folders in new windows, thus text files, for example are opened in the same Konq window.
Indeed.
Setting to use external viewer with command-line with a call to Konq is ignored: Konq does not call new Konq instance in new window.
- If to delete file association and then create a new file association with
new name, the new one becomes broken and its settings impossible to edit.
:|
- Problems with Kicker
- The K-menu appears with shift from the expected position when first
called after reboot or changing KDE settings. This happens with some icon themes and does not with others (does not happen with Crystal, happens with Slick, KDE Classic). See this screenshot: http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501136_a588cd5da5.png
Never saw this happen on my machines. Can you reproduce this consistently? Distro?
- The buttons on the taskbar are not pushed even when selected, even if
Classic view is enabled.
True.
- Problems with desktop
- Names of some icons on the desktop are shown with incomplete dotted
frame, see these screenshots: http://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501420_29ca819b25.png http://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501455_1c83682e95.png
This is another one I never saw. Very strange.
- If to create a file on the desktop with the same name as a name of a
recently deleted file, the file appears on the desktop with a strange name, while its actual name in the desktop folder is correct. The icon on the desktop is non-functional, the file cannot be opened nor deleted with this icon. But when the actual file is deleted the fake icon also disappears. See the screenshot: http://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294504085_737cc4b3ae.png
:|
- Problems with common dialogs
- In the file open/save dialogs the items in the quick access bar appear
with small icons and the discription to the right of it. Even the standard items do not fit in that space and the width of that column cannot be increased: http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294503644_9cc8d824db.png
http://i52.tinypic.com/25u7477.png
No problem here. That is KDE 3.5.10, right?
Apparently the bar was designed for big icons and descriptions below, a layout for which it is ideally suitable: http://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294503727_62bddf5c7a.png This layout can be enabled per application, but not system-wide.
- Some dialogs cannot resize large icons properly so the icons appear with
huge dimentions:
http://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294504235_32eea56499.png
http://i55.tinypic.com/2ebv2w3.png
That, to me, looks like a theme problem on your side.
Best regards, Tiago
On Sunday 09 January 2011 05:30:58 Tiago Marques wrote:
- The K-menu appears with shift from the expected position when first
called after reboot or changing KDE settings. This happens with some icon themes and does not with others (does not happen with Crystal, happens with Slick, KDE Classic). See this screenshot: http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501136_a588cd5da5.png
Never saw this happen on my machines. Can you reproduce this consistently? Distro?
Yes. On PC-BSD 1.4, Ubuntu and OpenSUSE 11.2-11.3
Also I noticed that if to remove two (empirically determined) icon files from Classic theme the problem disappears. But this is not consistent: when added to another theme the same files do not break the behavior.
The problem appears always with a problematic icon theme, the change of Qt style does not help (although the location of shifted menu somewhat changes with different styles). Changing the panel layout, size or other menu settings does not help either.
First call to the menu after changes in kcontrol or reboot always shifted, further calls to the menu are not shifted until settings in kcontrol changed again.
- The buttons on the taskbar are not pushed even when selected, even if
Classic view is enabled.
True.
- Problems with desktop
- Names of some icons on the desktop are shown with incomplete dotted
frame, see these screenshots: http://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501420_29ca819b25.png http://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501455_1c83682e95.png
This is another one I never saw. Very strange.
Also always reproducible and distro-independent.
- Problems with common dialogs
- In the file open/save dialogs the items in the quick access bar appear
with small icons and the discription to the right of it. Even the standard items do not fit in that space and the width of that column cannot be increased: http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294503644_9cc8d824db.png
http://i52.tinypic.com/25u7477.png
No problem here. That is KDE 3.5.10, right?
Yes. Thanks to Trinity devs if this has been fixed.
- Some dialogs cannot resize large icons properly so the icons appear
with huge dimentions:
http://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294504235_32eea56499.png
http://i55.tinypic.com/2ebv2w3.png
That, to me, looks like a theme problem on your side.
This problem appears only in two places: in kcontrol and in file dialogs with small icons:
http://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0109/h_1294546983_8e5e70d2e3.png
while with normal icons it appears well:
http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0109/h_1294547011_ea93ecf35c.png
In all other places and applications the icons successfully resized to desired dimensions.
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 4:24 AM, Ilya Chernykh neptunia@mail.ru wrote:
On Sunday 09 January 2011 05:30:58 Tiago Marques wrote:
- The K-menu appears with shift from the expected position when first
called after reboot or changing KDE settings. This happens with some icon
themes
and does not with others (does not happen with Crystal, happens with Slick, KDE Classic). See this screenshot:
http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501136_a588cd5da5.png
Never saw this happen on my machines. Can you reproduce this
consistently?
Distro?
Yes. On PC-BSD 1.4, Ubuntu and OpenSUSE 11.2-11.3
If you can point me to the repositories you used, I can help debug this. OpenSUSE from here?
Also I noticed that if to remove two (empirically determined) icon files from Classic theme the problem disappears. But this is not consistent: when added to another theme the same files do not break the behavior.
The problem appears always with a problematic icon theme, the change of Qt style does not help (although the location of shifted menu somewhat changes with different styles). Changing the panel layout, size or other menu settings does not help either.
First call to the menu after changes in kcontrol or reboot always shifted, further calls to the menu are not shifted until settings in kcontrol changed again.
- The buttons on the taskbar are not pushed even when selected, even if
Classic view is enabled.
True.
- Problems with desktop
- Names of some icons on the desktop are shown with incomplete dotted
frame, see these screenshots:
http://storage1.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501420_29ca819b25.png
http://storage2.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294501455_1c83682e95.png
This is another one I never saw. Very strange.
Also always reproducible and distro-independent.
- Problems with common dialogs
- In the file open/save dialogs the items in the quick access bar
appear
with small icons and the discription to the right of it. Even the standard items do not fit in that space and the width of that column cannot be increased:
http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294503644_9cc8d824db.png
http://i52.tinypic.com/25u7477.png
No problem here. That is KDE 3.5.10, right?
Yes. Thanks to Trinity devs if this has been fixed.
- Some dialogs cannot resize large icons properly so the icons appear
with huge dimentions:
http://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0108/h_1294504235_32eea56499.png
http://i55.tinypic.com/2ebv2w3.png
That, to me, looks like a theme problem on your side.
This problem appears only in two places: in kcontrol and in file dialogs with small icons:
http://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0109/h_1294546983_8e5e70d2e3.png
while with normal icons it appears well:
http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/11/0109/h_1294547011_ea93ecf35c.png
In all other places and applications the icons successfully resized to desired dimensions.
This is all quite strange to me. I'm willing to help you out how I can. Get back to me with confirmation of the repositories you use.
Best regards, Tiago
-
chr4pc -
Ilya Chernykh -
Kristopher Gamrat -
Robert Xu -
Tiago Marques