25 May
2018
25 May
'18
10:48 p.m.
I hope i'll get more responces then usual. -_-
If no one responds, a kitten will die.
I think trinity doesn't has much of a strategy.
Here some ideas
----------------------------------------------
trinity would be split in to two parts
1.trinity proper
This will be a relatively restricted set of important components
of high quality. This will be a bit like other normal DE, like xfce and mate.
For example, it will have the libs, kdesktop, kicker, tdm, konsole, amarok,
kaffeine, dolphin, klipper etc... See restricted, important and high quality.
2. trinity extra apps
Here goes everything else
trinity proper will be given priority in fixing bugs.
Also, all of trinity proper would be properly renamed
and moved out of opt. for example tqt becomes
trinity libs, konsole becomes trinity terminal
or something like that. See proper names, not kdename-trinity.
Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity proper
to debian. And from there it would move up ubuntu.
Trinity will get more exposure, more users and more bug fixes,
including for trinity extra apps.
For the extra apps, users would use an extra repo like now.
The names can stay "kdename-trinity" or be fully renamed.
And the quality maters less. At some unspecified time in the
future, apps from here will be moved to trinity proper.
--------------------------------
an other idea would be, to move the code to github
Not for technical reasons. Many developers are already there.
This will increase the probability that the project will get more
exposure and devs.
26 May
26 May
12:04 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively restricted
set of
important components of high quality [and] will be given
priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize
your own work.
Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity
proper
to debian.
That would be great if it happened but don't count on it.
Long before the systemd gang started trying to unsupport
sysvinit in Debian, the Debian KDE gang basically forced
KDE 3 out when it would have been so easy to keep it in.
IMNSHO this was because they wanted to force Debian users
to move to the inferior KDE 4. Fortunately Tim saved KDE 3
as Trinity and with other volunteers continues to improve it.
Neverthless I wish you luck.
--Mike
1:49 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
On Saturday 26 May 2018 02:04:41 Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com
wrote:
Having a strategy with objectives is smarter then
simply be a disorganized crowd doing stuff at random.
The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse.
If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs.
It needs a bit of polish, and to put forword the best parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about
the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively
restricted set of
important components of high quality [and] will be given
priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize
your own work. 
3:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
On 05/25/2018 05:04 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55 wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com
wrote:
Push Trinity into Debian is a crappy idea, all they would do is sew in
systemd, that's all upstream is getting paid to care about.
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively
restricted set of
important components of high quality [and] will be given
priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize
your own work.
> Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity proper
> to debian. That would be great if it happened but don't count
on it.
Long before the systemd gang started trying to unsupport
sysvinit in Debian, the Debian KDE gang basically forced
KDE 3 out when it would have been so easy to keep it in.
IMNSHO this was because they wanted to force Debian users
to move to the inferior KDE 4. Fortunately Tim saved KDE 3
as Trinity and with other volunteers continues to improve it.
Neverthless I wish you luck.
--Mike
Devuan is looking at Trinity as an alternative to XFCE and the direction
Trinity should be going. Devuan is as a alterative to the Blob, more and
more people are looking for an alternative and they will be looking at
Trinity too. Plasma suks and Systemd suks, they are married to each other.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Ceres - TDE-Trinity R14.0.5 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda8
Registered Linux User #380263
3:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
On Saturday 26 May 2018 05:12:28 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 05/25/2018 05:04 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
-_- I should troll you both with systemd....
But i will not....
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
Push Trinity into Debian is a crappy idea, all they would do is sew in
systemd, that's all upstream is getting paid to care about.
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively
restricted set of
important components of high quality [and] will be given
priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize
your own work.
> Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity proper
> to debian. That would be great if it happened but don't
count on it.
Long before the systemd gang started trying to unsupport
sysvinit in Debian, the Debian KDE gang basically forced
KDE 3 out when it would have been so easy to keep it in.
IMNSHO this was because they wanted to force Debian users
to move to the inferior KDE 4. Fortunately Tim saved KDE 3
as Trinity and with other volunteers continues to improve it.
Neverthless I wish you luck.
--Mike
Devuan is looking at Trinity as an alternative to XFCE and the direction
Trinity should be going. Devuan is as a alterative to the Blob, more and
more people are looking for an alternative and they will be looking at
Trinity too. Plasma suks and Systemd suks, they are married to each other.
Cheers,
4:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
On 05/25/2018 08:33 PM, wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
-_- I should troll you both with systemd....
But i will not....
I'll be looking for you.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Ceres - TDE-Trinity R14.0.5 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda8
Registered Linux User #380263
6:40 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018 schrieb wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com:
[...]
The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse.
If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs.
Well, yes,
but ... devuan would like TDE, but TDE would have to be build within the devuan duild
infrastructure. I thought, well, no big deal, fetch the git repo, push it to devuan build
server and we'r done. Not so easy, as it turned out. Keeping the two repos in sync and
mantain a seperate patchset for devuan cosmetics is challanging, at least for me.
It needs a bit of polish, and to put forword the best
parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about
the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
There should at least be more screenshots in the screenshot section and a way to download
themes, styles etc. tcontrol links to "themes.kde.org", but there are no
TDE/KDE3 compatible themes any more, so a themes-section on the tde main site beside the
"screenshots" would be a nice thing to have.
nik
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA,
CIA ...
9:04 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
On 05/25/2018 11:40 PM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
It looked to me that the link is wrong in TDE, I'm not a Dev and have no
idea where to look, but it seems to me a simple change in the link to
kde.look would fix the problem. The kde3 stuff is still there and with
a working link new stuff can be uploaded and downloaded too. As for
themes and customizing a desktop, you can not beat kde3, nothing out
there can touch it, not plasma, nothing. Both KDE and Neon are on
Twitter showing off Plasma, but they have not showed me one thing that I
can not do with kde3. Transparent themes, transparent konsole, etc. can
all be done with kde3, I don't know if Timothy saw this day coming or
not but he salvaged the real kde, the Award Winning Unix, Groupware
Compliant desktop, simply the best desktop ever.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda5
Registered Linux User #380263
Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018 schrieb
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com:
> [...]
> The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse.
> If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs.
Well, yes, but ... devuan would like TDE, but TDE
would have to be build within the devuan duild infrastructure. I thought, well, no big
deal, fetch the git repo, push it to devuan build server and we'r done. Not so easy,
as it turned out. Keeping the two repos in sync and mantain a seperate patchset for devuan
cosmetics is challanging, at least for me.
Nik as you where writing your post there are Devuan people talking about
including Trinity. Both could lighten their loads if they could talk
and work together and I feel Trinity and Devuan where made for each
other. Personally I feel we, us Linux users, need a anti-plasma
kde-desktop and a anti-systemd debian operating system. We have to hold
our ground. Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I feel
debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
It needs a bit
of polish, and to put forword the best parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about
the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
There should at least be more screenshots in the screenshot section and a way to download
themes, styles etc. tcontrol links to "themes.kde.org", but there are no
TDE/KDE3 compatible themes any more, so a themes-section on the tde main site beside the
"screenshots" would be a nice thing to have. 
11:09 a.m.
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I feel
debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
I think systemd went in before that, so not sure if it changed something.
I also have the feeling that desktop developers are going the M$ way.
I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The
question is what is doing exactly.
regards
4:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Re: proposal for a new strategy
On Saturday 26 May 2018 09:13:32 deloptes wrote:
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
You read it too literally
It was a metaphor to the way you handled
certain aspects of the project.
Like not renaming and shoving stuff in opt.
And just having one big mess in the repos.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke
about
the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
Don't dare to insult the UI - it is sacred!
Man, honestly, I think you are too young - study history first.
regards
5:25 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] proposal for a new strategy
On Saturday 26 May 2018 08:40:41 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018 schrieb
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com:
All distros have annoying little differences.
It's a disease, it's called "not invented here" NIH.
[...]
The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse.
If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs.
Well, yes, but ... devuan would like TDE, but TDE would have to be build
within the devuan duild infrastructure. I thought, well, no big deal, fetch
the git repo, push it to devuan build server and we'r done. Not so easy, as
it turned out. Keeping the two repos in sync and mantain a seperate
patchset for devuan cosmetics is challanging, at least for me. It needs a bit
of polish, and to put forword the best parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about
the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
There should at least be more screenshots in the screenshot section and a
way to download themes, styles etc. tcontrol links to "themes.kde.org", but
there are no TDE/KDE3 compatible themes any more, so a themes-section on
the tde main site beside the "screenshots" would be a nice thing to have.
nik
7:41 p.m.
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
You read it too literally
It was a metaphor to the way you handled
certain aspects of the project.
Like not renaming and shoving stuff in opt.
And just having one big mess in the repos.
yes, nothing is perfect, but you are not forced to do anything - I just
wonder what is your motivation?
IMO it works pretty well for what it is and I am happy to have it.
You do not understand how much effort is going in having.
For me when I joined the community it was also not clear how small the team
is. For the size it is excellent job. Of course things can be better, but
this is our world, we do what we can.
I have a lot of respect toward the team.
Have more respect, please!
regards
7:54 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Re: Re: proposal for a new strategy
On Saturday 26 May 2018 21:41:09 deloptes wrote:
wofgdkncxojef(a)gmail.com wrote:
Do you want more devs or not?
You read it too literally
It was a metaphor to the way you handled
certain aspects of the project.
Like not renaming and shoving stuff in opt.
And just having one big mess in the repos.
yes, nothing is perfect, but you are not forced to do anything - I just
wonder what is your motivation?
9:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Re: proposal for a new strategy
On 05/26/2018 04:09 AM, deloptes wrote:
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I feel
> debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
I think systemd went in before that, so not sure if it
changed something.
It was there, but not implemented yet, only logind in Wheezy.
Did you follow his death? Very mysterious, Ian was running around
saying someone was trying to kill him and then after his death and a
long, long wait the San Francisco Police say he killed himself!?! It
makes no sense to me.
I also have the feeling that desktop developers are
going the M$ way.
I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The
question is what is doing exactly.
I'm thinking it was paid for and created by Microsoft Linux Developers,
known as Neo-Linux Developers and they hate Linux, I know this because I
was inside Microsoft and inside the Neo-Linux forum, which now seems to
have been been removed because of the stupid and incriminating things
that are said in the forum. Even Pottering admitted on the Debian
mailing list saying he didn't know everything systemd is capable of
doing. Between Plasma, Systemd and who knows what else, because this is
Big Money deep shit, Linux is dead as we know it and is what Microsoft
has wanted. And Microsoft will have their way unless we have developers
who can not be bought by shiny new objects or money and they are few
because people have excuses for doing the wrong thing and will use them,
saying they did it for the family or some such thing to keep themselves
going. When big money gets thrown at free and open source software then
the users of the software become less than the object the software is
being created for and the software may become something sinister.
Microsoft will treat you like a Good ol'boy, a rock star if you join
them, much the same as you would be treated if you where to join the KKK.
Cheers,
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda5
Registered Linux User #380263
9:33 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Re: proposal for a new strategy
On Saturday 26 May 2018 23:10:34 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 05/26/2018 04:09 AM, deloptes wrote:
If i remember correctly, Ian had left debian a long time ago.
Closer to the truth: Red Hat pushed systemd. Pottering is an employee
of red hat. Exactly why Red hat took that decision doesn't matter.
Maybe NIH, maybe internal politics, maybe something else. Because of
red hat's dominant position, the other distros went along with it.
Pulseaudio also comes from red hat, and ended up dominating for the same
reason.
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
It was there, but not implemented yet, only logind in Wheezy.
Did you follow his death? Very mysterious, Ian was running around
saying someone was trying to kill him and then after his death and a
long, long wait the San Francisco Police say he killed himself!?! It
makes no sense to me.
Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I
feel
debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
I think systemd went in before that, so not sure if it changed something. I also have the feeling that desktop developers
are going the M$ way.
I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The
question is what is doing exactly.
I'm thinking it was paid for and created by Microsoft Linux Developers,
known as Neo-Linux Developers and they hate Linux, I know this because I
was inside Microsoft and inside the Neo-Linux forum, which now seems to
have been been removed because of the stupid and incriminating things
that are said in the forum. Even Pottering admitted on the Debian
mailing list saying he didn't know everything systemd is capable of
doing. Between Plasma, Systemd and who knows what else, because this is
Big Money deep shit, Linux is dead as we know it and is what Microsoft
has wanted. And Microsoft will have their way unless we have developers
who can not be bought by shiny new objects or money and they are few
because people have excuses for doing the wrong thing and will use them,
saying they did it for the family or some such thing to keep themselves
going. When big money gets thrown at free and open source software then
the users of the software become less than the object the software is
being created for and the software may become something sinister.
Microsoft will treat you like a Good ol'boy, a rock star if you join
them, much the same as you would be treated if you where to join the KKK.
Cheers,
11:24 p.m.
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Well might be indeed true - the last 10-15years are mostly a waste - not
only in terms of software. Things changed and not for good - worst is youth
(s.c. millenia) totally devastated. Very sad.
Lets hope it will end or change for good soon.
It was there, but not implemented yet, only logind in
Wheezy.
Did you follow his death? Very mysterious, Ian was running around
saying someone was trying to kill him and then after his death and a
long, long wait the San Francisco Police say he killed himself!?! It
makes no sense to me.
Yes, indeed - it was a bit spooky - we'll never know.
I also have
the feeling that desktop developers are going the M$ way.
I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The
question is what is doing exactly.
I'm thinking it was paid for and created by Microsoft Linux Developers,
known as Neo-Linux Developers and they hate Linux, I know this because I
was inside Microsoft and inside the Neo-Linux forum, which now seems to
have been been removed because of the stupid and incriminating things
that are said in the forum. Even Pottering admitted on the Debian
mailing list saying he didn't know everything systemd is capable of
doing. Between Plasma, Systemd and who knows what else, because this is
Big Money deep shit, Linux is dead as we know it and is what Microsoft
has wanted. And Microsoft will have their way unless we have developers
who can not be bought by shiny new objects or money and they are few
because people have excuses for doing the wrong thing and will use them,
saying they did it for the family or some such thing to keep themselves
going. When big money gets thrown at free and open source software then
the users of the software become less than the object the software is
being created for and the software may become something sinister.
Microsoft will treat you like a Good ol'boy, a rock star if you join
them, much the same as you would be treated if you where to join the KKK.
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18 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Jimmy Johnson -
Mike Bird -
wofgdkncxojef＠gmail.com