When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown confirmation dialog displays a Restart button with a little arrow.
Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how the system restarts. The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That is, the user needs admin permissions to modify menu.lst.
When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart button then be a generic button with no options like the other buttons?
Darrell
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense. If the user needs to change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
Best regards, Tiago
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.comwrote:
When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown confirmation dialog displays a Restart button with a little arrow.
Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how the system restarts. The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That is, the user needs admin permissions to modify menu.lst.
When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart button then be a generic button with no options like the other buttons?
Darrell
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense. If the user needs to change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
Best regards, Tiago
Agreed. A typical user should not even be able to change this except at boot, as it would be possible (for example) to select an older kernel containing a security vulnerability to be used at the next machine restart. I don't know if this honors any GRUB passwords; if it does (or requires root access) then my scenario is rendered invalid of course. ;-)
From a usability standpoint, can we state categorically that anyone who wants to select the specific kernel to use should know how to select the correct kernel at system startup? Does this option make it more convenient, and therefore remain relevant (e.g. select a new kernel, reboot, and go get coffee while the machine is rebooting instead of lingering around waiting for the GRUB prompt)?
Tim
IMHO these kind of options don't
even make sense. If the user needs to
change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors
that sometime
ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has
been a feature that
has confused me since KDE 3.2
Agreed. A typical user should not even be able to change this except at boot, as it would be possible (for example) to select an older kernel containing a security vulnerability to be used at the next machine restart. I don't know if this honors any GRUB passwords; if it does (or requires root access) then my scenario is rendered invalid of course. ;-)
From a usability standpoint, can we state categorically that anyone who wants to select the specific kernel to use should know how to select the correct kernel at system startup? Does this option make it more convenient, and therefore remain relevant (e.g. select a new kernel, reboot, and go get coffee while the machine is rebooting instead of lingering around waiting for the GRUB prompt)?
I agree those options don't belong in the TDE shutdown dialog. Hence my original post.
Those options are not part of the original 3.5.10. Those options were inherited or merged from elsewhere.
I'm trying to envision when I or others might want those options to appear and what value they add. First, I don't think equivalent options with LILO are possible because LILO needs to be "rebuilt" after editing the lilo.conf file. Normal users can't do that on-the-fly. Similarly, editing the GRUB menu.lst file on-the-fly is impossible too.
The only time those options could actually have effect is when the user is logged in and using TDE as root. Using TDE as root does not bother me although I know some people have heart attacks and start frothing with such topics. Regardless, the point here is I don't see when those options become useful in the TDE shutdown dialog.
As mentioned, what is so challenging as to wait until the GRUB menu appears and then selecting the desired option? Further, when the default option needs to be changed, then somebody with admin privileges can login and edit the menu.lst file.
I have both options in my menu.lst file so I can test both command line and graphical logins. I am struggling to see why those options are in the shutdown dialog when they can't be changed anyway by normal users.
Should I file a bug report to rip those options from the shutdown dialog?
Darrell
On Friday 17 February 2012 20:22:35 Darrell Anderson wrote:
As mentioned, what is so challenging as to wait until the GRUB menu appears and then selecting the desired option? Further, when the default option needs to be changed, then somebody with admin privileges can login and edit the menu.lst file.
correct. in addition, as already noted, there might be other configurations, such as usage of LILO instead of grub, or even grub2, which would have to be configured by editing /etc/default/grub and then running grub-update. these would have to be handeled too, for a complete coverage of boot process. makes no sense to me, for a logout dialog in any DE, IMHO.
werner
I'm trying to envision when I or others might want those options to appear and what value they add. First, I don't think equivalent options with LILO are possible because LILO needs to be "rebuilt" after editing the lilo.conf file. Normal users can't do that on-the-fly. Similarly, editing the GRUB menu.lst file on-the-fly is impossible too.
The only time those options could actually have effect is when the user is logged in and using TDE as root. Using TDE as root does not bother me although I know some people have heart attacks and start frothing with such topics. Regardless, the point here is I don't see when those options become useful in the TDE shutdown dialog.
As mentioned, what is so challenging as to wait until the GRUB menu appears and then selecting the desired option? Further, when the default option needs to be changed, then somebody with admin privileges can login and edit the menu.lst file.
I have both options in my menu.lst file so I can test both command line and graphical logins. I am struggling to see why those options are in the shutdown dialog when they can't be changed anyway by normal users.
Do we need a bug report to properly resolve this conversation?
Darrell
On 21 February 2012 20:31, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm trying to envision when I or others might want those options to appear and what value they add. First, I don't think equivalent options with LILO are possible because LILO needs to be "rebuilt" after editing the lilo.conf file. Normal users can't do that on-the-fly. Similarly, editing the GRUB menu.lst file on-the-fly is impossible too.
The only time those options could actually have effect is when the user is logged in and using TDE as root. Using TDE as root does not bother me although I know some people have heart attacks and start frothing with such topics. Regardless, the point here is I don't see when those options become useful in the TDE shutdown dialog.
As mentioned, what is so challenging as to wait until the GRUB menu appears and then selecting the desired option? Further, when the default option needs to be changed, then somebody with admin privileges can login and edit the menu.lst file.
I have both options in my menu.lst file so I can test both command line and graphical logins. I am struggling to see why those options are in the shutdown dialog when they can't be changed anyway by normal users.
Do we need a bug report to properly resolve this conversation?
Darrell
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
yes please.
we need a universal method (daemon or otherwise) of controlling all these different mechanisms from one interface.
I am holding off on kicker code because I _refuse_ to integrate my kicker with udev or hal. writing it in for every app doesn't seem like the solution, creating a single interface does.
Calvin
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:07:13 +0000 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense. If the user needs to change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
KDE4 has the same feature, including a recently implemented GRUB2 backend (http://ksmanis.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/grub2burg-integration-in-kde/) so it seems to be useful to some people. (btw the GRUB2 patch seems to apply cleanly (but still manually as the KCM-related file changed place between KDE3 and KDE4) to Trinity 3.5.13, but I didn't test it as I don't have GRUB2; the patch is available at https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/073...)
Best regards, Tiago
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.comwrote:
When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown confirmation dialog displays a Restart button with a little arrow.
Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how the system restarts. The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That is, the user needs admin permissions to modify menu.lst.
When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart button then be a generic button with no options like the other buttons?
Darrell
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 7:17 PM, /dev/ammo42 mickeytintincolle@yahoo.frwrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:07:13 +0000 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense. If the user needs to change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
KDE4 has the same feature, including a recently implemented GRUB2 backend (http://ksmanis.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/grub2burg-integration-in-kde/) so it seems to be useful to some people. (btw the GRUB2 patch seems to apply cleanly (but still manually as the KCM-related file changed place between KDE3 and KDE4) to Trinity 3.5.13, but I didn't test it as I don't have GRUB2; the patch is available at
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/073... )
It seems useful to some people who multiboot but even those should be savvy enough to know how to select on grub. One of the big problems is that distros like ubuntu hide the bootloader menu, because otherwise that is a mostly pointless feature. Why would you be forced to go all the way to the display manager just to go back to windows? It doesn't make sense. People in front of distros should have a better way for people to multiboot their systems. I also don't imagine a normal Ubuntu system to have such a clutter fee OS list on that popup.
I gave Linux "helpdesk" support to some people a few years back and their problem wasn't that they couldn't find the grub menu but that said menu didn't have the entry to boot to windows and had to be installed manually.
Best regards, Tiago
Best regards, Tiago
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.comwrote:
When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown confirmation dialog displays a Restart button with a little arrow.
Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how the system restarts. The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That is, the user needs admin permissions to modify menu.lst.
When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart button then be a generic button with no options like the other buttons?
Darrell
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
On Saturday 18 February 2012 10:30:14 pm Tiago Marques wrote:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 7:17 PM, /dev/ammo42 mickeytintincolle@yahoo.frwrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:07:13 +0000 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense. If the user needs to change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
KDE4 has the same feature, including a recently implemented GRUB2 backend (http://ksmanis.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/grub2burg-integration-in-kde/) so it seems to be useful to some people. (btw the GRUB2 patch seems to apply cleanly (but still manually as the KCM-related file changed place between KDE3 and KDE4) to Trinity 3.5.13, but I didn't test it as I don't have GRUB2; the patch is available at
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/073... )
It seems useful to some people who multiboot but even those should be savvy enough to know how to select on grub. <snip>
Then their are those of us too lazy to do so, or that are easily distracted (like myself ;-) ) and who miss the chance to select the OS. (of course, I could increase the timeout in GRUB, but I'm both too lazy and too obsessed with a faster boot ;-) )
-
/dev/ammo42 -
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
Kristopher John Gamrat -
Tiago Marques -
Timothy Pearson -
Werner Joss