16 Feb
2012
16 Feb
'12
8:21 p.m.
When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown confirmation dialog displays a
Restart button with a little arrow.
Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how the system restarts.
The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That is, the user needs admin
permissions to modify menu.lst.
When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart button then be a generic
button with no options like the other buttons?
Darrell
17 Feb
17 Feb
9:07 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense. If the user needs to
change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime ships
in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a feature that has
confused me since KDE 3.2
Best regards,
Tiago
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Darrell Anderson
<humanreadable(a)yahoo.com>wrote;wrote:
When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown
confirmation dialog
displays a Restart button with a little arrow.
Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how the
system restarts. The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That is, the
user needs admin permissions to modify menu.lst.
When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart button
then be a generic button with no options like the other buttons?
Darrell
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9:13 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense.
If the user needs to
change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime
ships
in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a feature that
has
confused me since KDE 3.2
Best regards,
Tiago
Agreed. A typical user should not even be able to change this except at
boot, as it would be possible (for example) to select an older kernel
containing a security vulnerability to be used at the next machine
restart. I don't know if this honors any GRUB passwords; if it does (or
requires root access) then my scenario is rendered invalid of course. ;-)
From a usability standpoint, can we state categorically that anyone who
wants to select the specific kernel to use should know how to select the
correct kernel at system startup? Does this option make it more
convenient, and therefore remain relevant (e.g. select a new kernel,
reboot, and go get coffee while the machine is rebooting instead of
lingering around waiting for the GRUB prompt)?
Tim
11:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
IMHO these
kind of options don't
even make sense. If the user needs to
change the kernel, it could do it with the grub
editors
that sometime
ships
in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has
been a feature that
has
confused me since KDE 3.2
Agreed. A typical user should not even be able to
change this except at
boot, as it would be possible (for example) to select an
older kernel
containing a security vulnerability to be used at the next
machine
restart. I don't know if this honors any GRUB
passwords; if it does (or
requires root access) then my scenario is rendered invalid
of course. ;-)
From a usability standpoint, can we state categorically that
anyone who
wants to select the specific kernel to use should know how
to select the
correct kernel at system startup? Does this option
make it more
convenient, and therefore remain relevant (e.g. select a new
kernel,
reboot, and go get coffee while the machine is rebooting
instead of
lingering around waiting for the GRUB prompt)? 
11:42 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
On Friday 17 February 2012 20:22:35 Darrell Anderson wrote:
As mentioned, what is so challenging as to wait until
the GRUB menu appears
and then selecting the desired option? Further, when the default option
needs to be changed, then somebody with admin privileges can login and edit
the menu.lst file.
correct.
in addition, as already noted, there might be other configurations, such as
usage of LILO instead of grub, or even grub2, which would have to be
configured by editing /etc/default/grub and then running grub-update.
these would have to be handeled too, for a complete coverage of boot process.
makes no sense to me, for a logout dialog in any DE, IMHO.
werner
21 Feb
21 Feb
5:31 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
I'm trying to envision when I or others might want
those
options to appear and what value they add. First, I don't
think equivalent options with LILO are possible because LILO
needs to be "rebuilt" after editing the lilo.conf file.
Normal users can't do that on-the-fly. Similarly, editing
the GRUB menu.lst file on-the-fly is impossible too.
The only time those options could actually have effect is
when the user is logged in and using TDE as root. Using TDE
as root does not bother me although I know some people have
heart attacks and start frothing with such topics.
Regardless, the point here is I don't see when those options
become useful in the TDE shutdown dialog.
As mentioned, what is so challenging as to wait until the
GRUB menu appears and then selecting the desired option?
Further, when the default option needs to be changed, then
somebody with admin privileges can login and edit the
menu.lst file.
I have both options in my menu.lst file so I can test both
command line and graphical logins. I am struggling to see
why those options are in the shutdown dialog when they can't
be changed anyway by normal users.
Do we need a bug report to properly resolve this conversation?
Darrell
5:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
On 21 February 2012 20:31, Darrell Anderson <humanreadable(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
yes please.
we need a universal method (daemon or otherwise) of controlling all
these different mechanisms from one interface.
I am holding off on kicker code because I _refuse_ to integrate my
kicker with udev or hal. writing it in for every app doesn't seem like
the solution, creating a single interface does.
Calvin
I'm trying
to envision when I or others might want those
options to appear and what value they add. First, I don't
think equivalent options with LILO are possible because LILO
needs to be "rebuilt" after editing the lilo.conf file.
Normal users can't do that on-the-fly. Similarly, editing
the GRUB menu.lst file on-the-fly is impossible too.
The only time those options could actually have effect is
when the user is logged in and using TDE as root. Using TDE
as root does not bother me although I know some people have
heart attacks and start frothing with such topics.
Regardless, the point here is I don't see when those options
become useful in the TDE shutdown dialog.
As mentioned, what is so challenging as to wait until the
GRUB menu appears and then selecting the desired option?
Further, when the default option needs to be changed, then
somebody with admin privileges can login and edit the
menu.lst file.
I have both options in my menu.lst file so I can test both
command line and graphical logins. I am struggling to see
why those options are in the shutdown dialog when they can't
be changed anyway by normal users.
Do we need a bug report to properly resolve this conversation?
Darrell
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17 Feb
17 Feb
11:17 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:07:13 +0000
Tiago Marques <tiagomnm(a)gmail.com> wrote:
IMHO these kind of options don't even make sense.
If the user needs to
change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime
ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a
feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
KDE4 has the same feature, including a
recently implemented GRUB2
backend
(http://ksmanis.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/grub2burg-integration-in-kde/)
so it seems to be useful to some people.
(btw the GRUB2 patch seems to apply cleanly (but still manually as
the KCM-related file changed place between KDE3 and KDE4) to Trinity
3.5.13, but I didn't test it as I don't have GRUB2; the patch is
available at
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/07…)
Best regards,
Tiago
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Darrell Anderson
<humanreadable(a)yahoo.com>wrote;wrote:
> When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown confirmation
> dialog displays a Restart button with a little arrow.
>
> Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how
> the system restarts. The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
>
> I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
>
> How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That
> is, the user needs admin permissions to modify menu.lst.
>
> When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart
> button then be a generic button with no options like the other
> buttons?
>
> Darrell
>
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18 Feb
18 Feb
7:30 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 7:17 PM, /dev/ammo42 <mickeytintincolle(a)yahoo.fr>wrote;wrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:07:13 +0000
Tiago Marques <tiagomnm(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It seems useful to some people who multiboot but even those should be savvy
enough to know how to select on grub. One of the big problems is that
distros like ubuntu hide the bootloader menu, because otherwise that is a
mostly pointless feature. Why would you be forced to go all the way to the
display manager just to go back to windows? It doesn't make sense. People
in front of distros should have a better way for people to multiboot their
systems. I also don't imagine a normal Ubuntu system to have such a clutter
fee OS list on that popup.
I gave Linux "helpdesk" support to some people a few years back and their
problem wasn't that they couldn't find the grub menu but that said menu
didn't have the entry to boot to windows and had to be installed manually.
Best regards,
Tiago
IMHO these kind of options don't even make
sense. If the user needs to
change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime
ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a
feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
KDE4 has the same feature, including a
recently implemented GRUB2
backend
(http://ksmanis.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/grub2burg-integration-in-kde/)
so it seems to be useful to some people.
(btw the GRUB2 patch seems to apply cleanly (but still manually as
the KCM-related file changed place between KDE3 and KDE4) to Trinity
3.5.13, but I didn't test it as I don't have GRUB2; the patch is
available at
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/07…
)
Best regards,
Tiago
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 4:21 AM, Darrell Anderson
<humanreadable(a)yahoo.com>wrote;wrote:
> When starting X/TDE from a login manager, the Shutdown confirmation
> dialog displays a Restart button with a little arrow.
>
> Selecting and holding the button reveals the options to select how
> the system restarts. The button options are from the GRUB menu.lst.
>
> I don't know whether LILO options are supported.
>
> How is the default GRUB boot option supposed to get changed? That
> is, the user needs admin permissions to modify menu.lst.
>
> When the user does not have those permissions, should the Restart
> button then be a generic button with no options like the other
> buttons?
>
> Darrell
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail:
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>
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8:01 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Shutdown Dialog Restart Options
On Saturday 18 February 2012 10:30:14 pm Tiago Marques wrote:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 7:17 PM, /dev/ammo42
<mickeytintincolle(a)yahoo.fr>wrote;wrote:
Then their are those of us too lazy to do so, or that are easily distracted (like myself
;-) ) and who miss the chance to select the OS. (of course, I could increase the timeout
in GRUB, but I'm both too lazy and too obsessed with a faster boot ;-) )
--
Kris Gamrat
Ark Linux webmaster
http://www.arklinux.org/
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:07:13 +0000
Tiago Marques <tiagomnm(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It seems useful to some people who multiboot but even those should be savvy
enough to know how to select on grub. <snip> IMHO these kind of options don't even make
sense. If the user needs to
change the kernel, it could do it with the grub editors that sometime
ships in distros or just use the keyboard error. This has been a
feature that has confused me since KDE 3.2
KDE4 has the same feature, including a
recently implemented GRUB2
backend
(http://ksmanis.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/grub2burg-integration-in-kde/)
so it seems to be useful to some people.
(btw the GRUB2 patch seems to apply cleanly (but still manually as
the KCM-related file changed place between KDE3 and KDE4) to Trinity
3.5.13, but I didn't test it as I don't have GRUB2; the patch is
available at
https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kde-workspace/repository/revisions/07…
)
4466
days inactive
4471
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
/dev/ammo42 -
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
Kristopher John Gamrat -
Tiago Marques -
Timothy Pearson -
Werner Joss