Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
1. Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface 2. create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you could still issue the same commands to it. 3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
On 02/15/2012 11:25 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
- Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
- create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you could still issue the same commands to it. 3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
Hmm.. Are you talking about the context menu shutdown, or just getting rid of the confirmation dialog that appears on shutdown? I just get the logout confirmation as I have set the session manager to restore previous session to avoid a prompt. I rather like the logout confirmation because it give the options to
'End Current Session' 'Shutdown Computer' 'Restart Computer (with listbox for which GRUB OS to boot)' 'Suspend Computer'
I have found the selection rather well laid-out and useful. I dunno, I'm not that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout, I have no need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you sure that what you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation options in 'KDE Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the new kmenu entries..)
On 15 February 2012 12:51, David C. Rankin drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com wrote:
On 02/15/2012 11:25 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
- Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
- create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you could still issue the same commands to it. 3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
Hmm.. Are you talking about the context menu shutdown, or just getting rid of the confirmation dialog that appears on shutdown?
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks "Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with a standard submenu in Kicker
I just get the logout confirmation as I have set the session manager to restore previous session to avoid a prompt. I rather like the logout confirmation because it give the options to
'End Current Session' 'Shutdown Computer 'Restart Computer (with listbox for which GRUB OS to boot)' 'Suspend Computer'
All of these options would be available as well.
I have found the selection rather well laid-out and useful. I dunno, I'm not that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout, I have no need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you sure that what you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation options in 'KDE Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the new kmenu entries..)
yes those options aren't what I was looking to change.
I made a mockup with the menu editor (non functional, but shows the idea) and I have attached a screen shot.
In the shot the Icons are in an incorrect spot, they will replace the logout spot
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 20:10:38 Calvin Morrison wrote:
On 15 February 2012 12:51, David C. Rankin
drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com wrote:
On 02/15/2012 11:25 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
- Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
- create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you could still issue the same commands to it. 3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
Hmm.. Are you talking about the context menu shutdown, or just getting rid of the confirmation dialog that appears on shutdown?
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks "Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with a standard submenu in Kicker
I just get the logout confirmation as I have set the session manager to restore previous session to avoid a prompt. I rather like the logout confirmation because it give the options to
'End Current Session' 'Shutdown Computer 'Restart Computer (with listbox for which GRUB OS to boot)' 'Suspend Computer'
All of these options would be available as well.
I have found the selection rather well laid-out and useful. I dunno, I'm not that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout, I have no need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you sure that what you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation options in 'KDE Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the new kmenu entries..)
yes those options aren't what I was looking to change.
I made a mockup with the menu editor (non functional, but shows the idea) and I have attached a screen shot.
In the shot the Icons are in an incorrect spot, they will replace the logout spot
Instead a submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For example, I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me "Suspend" would be much more useful.
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:31:26 +0200 Serghei Amelian serghei@thel.ro wrote:
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 20:10:38 Calvin Morrison wrote:
On 15 February 2012 12:51, David C. Rankin drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com wrote:
I have found the selection rather well laid-out and useful. I dunno, I'm not that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout, I have no need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you sure that what you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation options in 'KDE Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the new kmenu entries..)
yes those options aren't what I was looking to change.
I made a mockup with the menu editor (non functional, but shows the idea) and I have attached a screen shot.
In the shot the Icons are in an incorrect spot, they will replace the logout spot
Instead a submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For example, I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me "Suspend" would be much more useful.
I have used "Switch user" on rare occasions (generally while testing to see whether the reason something isn't working is a Real Bug or just my peculiar settings). "Suspend", on the other hand, is of little use on an always-on desktop. So this is another one of those "it depends" things.
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 22:37:08 E. Liddell wrote: [...]
Instead a submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For example, I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me "Suspend" would be much more useful.
I have used "Switch user" on rare occasions (generally while testing to see whether the reason something isn't working is a Real Bug or just my peculiar settings). "Suspend", on the other hand, is of little use on an always-on desktop. So this is another one of those "it depends" things.
Of course. For this reason should be available some options, like "Optional Menus" (Configure Panel -> Menus).
*I welcome anything that improves startup and shutdown speeds. KDE3 --- and by inheritance Trinity --- has always been pathetically slow in these two areas. *
In our distro (porteus) we have insane booting speeds mainly due to the main maintainer modifying the boot scripts. We have a video of him booting into LXDE in around 10 seconds with a useable desktop (with net connection). This video shows a boot time of about 15 seconds (couldn't locate the 10 second boot video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-iaUtKyzlk
The boot time for me (i5 processor) into Trinity is around 20-25 seconds. Shutdown is something like 10 seconds.
Jay
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Serghei Amelian serghei@thel.ro wrote:
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 22:37:08 E. Liddell wrote: [...]
Instead a submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For example, I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me "Suspend" would be much more useful.
I have used "Switch user" on rare occasions (generally while testing to
see
whether the reason something isn't working is a Real Bug or just my peculiar settings). "Suspend", on the other hand, is of little use on an always-on desktop. So this is another one of those "it depends" things.
Of course. For this reason should be available some options, like "Optional Menus" (Configure Panel -> Menus).
-- Serghei.
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On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks "Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just rt-clicked the desktop. So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would present all the options directly without having a dialog appear with them. That would be an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level could retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
On 15 February 2012 14:14, David C. Rankin drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com wrote:
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks "Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just rt-clicked the desktop.
This was a learning experience :-) I never used the rt click on desktop!
So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would present
all the options directly without having a dialog appear with them. That would be an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level could retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
We should also eliminate the dialog for right clicking on the desktop and replace it with a similar submenu as the one outline above.
Calvin
On 02/15/2012 01:16 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
We should also eliminate the dialog for right clicking on the desktop and replace it with a similar submenu as the one outline above.
I think think the dialog was needed due to the dynamic reading of grub menu.lst to populate the 'restart' options listbox. I don't know if kmenu could do that on the fly? I haven't looked, but that was the only logic that didn't seem like the menu itself would be able to accommodate.
On 15 February 2012 15:10, David C. Rankin drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com wrote:
On 02/15/2012 01:16 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
We should also eliminate the dialog for right clicking on the desktop and replace it with a similar submenu as the one outline above.
I think think the dialog was needed due to the dynamic reading of grub menu.lst to populate the 'restart' options listbox. I don't know if kmenu could do that on the fly? I haven't looked, but that was the only logic that didn't seem like the menu itself would be able to accommodate.
-- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Huh,
I dont' think it reads from grub, but it probably queries ksmserver to find out what options are available. Can't we just do this at the start of kicker?
Just a guess.
This idea i actually borrowed from KDE4's implementation of the old skool menu. When I saw it there, i thought it was a no brainer to bring to trinity.
Calvin
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks "Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just rt-clicked the desktop. So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would present all the options directly without having a dialog appear with them. That would be an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level could retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
Yes, it is possible. And I like this entire discussion; thinking of ways to speed up common tasks/eliminate bottlenecks is exactly what I want to hear from the members of this list. :-)
Tim
Dne st 15. února 2012 David C. Rankin napsal(a):
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks "Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just rt-clicked the desktop. So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would present all the options directly without having a dialog appear with them. That would be an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level could retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
I use Ctrl + Alt + Del followed by Enter to log off - usually at least 2 times a day (once at home and once at work). I like to look at the dragon before you log off :)
A sister would be very sad if there was not dragon...
Slavek --
Dne st 15. února 2012 David C. Rankin napsal(a):
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks "Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just rt-clicked the desktop. So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would present all the options directly without having a dialog appear with them. That would be an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level could retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
I use Ctrl + Alt + Del followed by Enter to log off - usually at least 2 times a day (once at home and once at work). I like to look at the dragon before you log off :)
A sister would be very sad if there was not dragon...
Slavek
From what I understand the dialog would still be available--there would be an additional submenu for those who want to use it instead, but the original functionality (Ctrl+Alt+Del or the Log Out menu option) would still be available. The Log Out menu option in particular would spawn the submenu if hovered over, but if clicked would bring up the logout dialog as it always has.
At least this is the way I envision it working from everyone's descriptions. :-)
Tim
This is an interesting conversation.
I welcome anything that improves startup and shutdown speeds. KDE3 --- and by inheritance Trinity --- has always been pathetically slow in these two areas. I submitted several related bug reports: 1) 258, ksmserver: Logout confirmation fadeaway is too slow with older hardware and 2) 681, Add a KControl option/check box to show/not show the exiting "Saving Your Settings" dialog, 3) 760, TDE seems to exit too slow.
I would like to see these bugs resolved for R14.
With that said, I see a pattern in this particular discussion: unfamiliarity with all the options.
For example, many people start X through a login manager. When used in that mode, Trinity will show a TDE Menu option to switch users. People who start X from the command line (rightfully) never see that menu option because they switch users by switching consoles (Ctrl-Alt-F(1-2-3-4-5-6)).
Another example is how the logout dialog appears depending upon the configuration options selected by the user. When the Confirm Logout check box is selected then the dialog appears differently than when the check box is disabled. Similarly, the dialog options are different depending upon whether the user started the session from the command line or a login manager.
Then there are the differences between the classic menu and the kickoff menu. Also the differences when users enable or disable saving sessions.
I have populated my Panel with the Lock/Logout applet buttons. I can logout/exit my session with those buttons, using the desktop popup menu, the TDE menu options, or pressing Ctrl-Alt-Delete. I use all of these options depending upon my mood and where my fingers and mouse cursor are located the moment I decide to exit.
I would not be surprised to learn there are other logout options that I am unfamiliar.
I'm seeing in this discussion each person's own preferences and a tendency to forget that these other options exist because each user does not see them anymore due to long-term personal configurations. Sole users of a computer or those who start X from the command line easily forget the Switch User option is available. Users who disable logout confirmation easily forget the option exists. Users who use a keyboard shortcut to logout easily forget the TDE menu options exist. Etc.
I'm not in favor of deleting the logout options from any of the places now available. One of the great attractions of the KDE3 model is configurability. There are many ways to logout and that is the way Trinity should be. In my own work flow with various apps, often I use different methods to accomplish my goal. I don't like being stuck to using only one option. If I was such a user then GNOME 3 or Unity would fit that style of usage. Each desktop has a place and Trinity's place is to empower the user to decide.
Before hacking code I ask that anybody interested in this topic actually use all of the various options, change all of the related configuration options, test starting X from both the command line and a login manager, populate the panel with the applet buttons, use both TDE menus, and then stand back to realize how all of the various options relate. This is a huge "big picture" conversation and until everybody involved agrees about the big picture, any code hacking is likely to upset those users who do things differently. Please don't assume everybody uses Trinity in the same manner. I have made that same mistake too often. :)
Darrell
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 19:25:38 Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
- Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
- create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you could still issue the same commands to it. 3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
I agree. I want to have Suspend button directly in kicker, because this is the one which I use very often. I think we can add few checkboxes in kicker preferences, where we can chose which buttons should appear in kicker.
Calvin
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 19:58:12 Serghei Amelian wrote: [...]
I agree. I want to have Suspend button directly in kicker, because this is the one which I use very often. I think we can add few checkboxes in kicker preferences, where we can chose which buttons should appear in kicker.
Calvin
No kicker, but kick menu :)
-
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
David C. Rankin -
E. Liddell -
Jay -
Serghei Amelian -
Slávek Banko -
Timothy Pearson