15 Feb
2012
15 Feb
'12
5:25 p.m.
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same
task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu
would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would
then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
1. Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
2. create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to
learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you
could still issue the same commands to it.
3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch
User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
15 Feb
15 Feb
5:51 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On 02/15/2012 11:25 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same
task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu
would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would
then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
1. Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
2. create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to
learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you
could still issue the same commands to it.
3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch
User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
Hmm.. Are you talking about the context menu shutdown, or just getting rid of
the confirmation dialog that appears on shutdown? I just get the logout
confirmation as I have set the session manager to restore previous session to
avoid a prompt. I rather like the logout confirmation because it give the
options to
'End Current Session'
'Shutdown Computer'
'Restart Computer (with listbox for which GRUB OS to boot)'
'Suspend Computer'
I have found the selection rather well laid-out and useful. I dunno, I'm not
that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout, I have no
need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you sure that what
you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation options in 'KDE
Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the new kmenu entries..)
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
6:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On 15 February 2012 12:51, David C. Rankin
<drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 02/15/2012 11:25 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks
"Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with
a standard submenu in Kicker
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same
task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu
would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would
then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
1. Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
2. create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to
learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you
could still issue the same commands to it.
3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch
User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
Hmm.. Are you talking about the context menu shutdown, or just getting rid of
the confirmation dialog that appears on shutdown? I just get the logout
confirmation as I have set the session manager to restore previous session to
avoid a prompt. I rather like the logout confirmation because it give the
options to
'End Current Session'
'Shutdown Computer
'Restart Computer (with listbox for which GRUB OS to boot)'
'Suspend Computer'
All of these options would be available as well.
I have found the selection rather well laid-out and
useful. I dunno, I'm not
that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout, I have no
need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you sure that what
you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation options in 'KDE
Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the new kmenu entries..)
yes those options aren't what I was looking to change.
I made a mockup with the menu editor (non functional, but shows the
idea) and I have attached a screen shot.
In the shot the Icons are in an incorrect spot, they will replace the
logout spot
6:31 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 20:10:38 Calvin Morrison wrote:
On 15 February 2012 12:51, David C. Rankin
<drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
Instead a submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For example,
I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me
"Suspend" would be much
more useful.
--
Serghei.
On 02/15/2012 11:25 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears when one clicks
"Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with
a standard submenu in Kicker
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same
task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu
would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would
then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
1. Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
2. create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to
learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you
could still issue the same commands to it.
3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch
User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
Calvin
Hmm.. Are you talking about the context menu shutdown, or just getting
rid of the confirmation dialog that appears on shutdown? I just get the logout
confirmation as I have set the session manager to restore previous
session to avoid a prompt. I rather like the logout confirmation because
it give the options to
'End Current Session'
'Shutdown Computer
'Restart Computer (with listbox for which GRUB OS to boot)'
'Suspend Computer'
All of these options would be available as well.
I have found the selection rather well laid-out
and useful. I dunno, I'm
not that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout,
I have no need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you
sure that what you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation
options in 'KDE Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the
new kmenu entries..)
yes those options aren't what I was looking to change.
I made a mockup with the menu editor (non functional, but shows the
idea) and I have attached a screen shot.
In the shot the Icons are in an incorrect spot, they will replace the
logout spot 
8:37 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:31:26 +0200
Serghei Amelian <serghei(a)thel.ro> wrote:
Instead a submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For example,
I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me
"Suspend" would be much
more useful.
I have used "Switch user" on rare occasions (generally while testing to see
whether the
reason something isn't working is a Real Bug or just my peculiar settings).
"Suspend",
on the other hand, is of little use on an always-on desktop. So this is another one of
those "it depends" things.
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 20:10:38 Calvin Morrison
wrote:
> On 15 February 2012 12:51, David C. Rankin
> <drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
I have found the selection rather well laid-out and
useful. I dunno, I'm
not that much of a start menu user. If I can rt-click and choose logout,
I have no need to navigate to unhide the taskbar and menu at all. Are you
sure that what you want can't be accomplished by setting the confirmation
options in 'KDE Components/Session Manager -> General' ? (aside from the
new kmenu entries..)
yes those options aren't what I was looking to change.
I made a mockup with the menu editor (non functional, but shows the
idea) and I have attached a screen shot.
In the shot the Icons are in an incorrect spot, they will replace the
logout spot
8:37 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 22:37:08 E. Liddell wrote:
[...]
Of course. For this reason should be available some options, like "Optional
Menus" (Configure Panel -> Menus).
--
Serghei.
Instead a
submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For
example, I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me
"Suspend"
would be much more useful.
I have used "Switch user" on rare occasions (generally while testing to see
whether the reason something isn't working is a Real Bug or just my
peculiar settings). "Suspend", on the other hand, is of little use on an
always-on desktop. So this is another one of those "it depends" things.
16 Feb
16 Feb
1:02 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
*I welcome anything that improves startup and shutdown speeds. KDE3 --- and
by inheritance Trinity --- has always been pathetically slow in these two
areas. *
In our distro (porteus) we have insane booting speeds mainly due to the
main maintainer modifying the boot scripts. We have a video of him booting
into LXDE in around 10 seconds with a useable desktop (with net
connection). This video shows a boot time of about 15 seconds (couldn't
locate the 10 second boot video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-iaUtKyzlk
The boot time for me (i5 processor) into Trinity is around 20-25 seconds.
Shutdown is something like 10 seconds.
Jay
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Serghei Amelian <serghei(a)thel.ro> wrote:
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 22:37:08 E. Liddell
wrote:
[...]
see
Instead a
submenu, we can put these buttons under "Run command". For
example, I never use "Switch user" and "Lock session", for me
"Suspend"
would be much more useful.
I have used "Switch user" on rare occasions (generally while testing to whether the reason something isn't working is
a Real Bug or just my
peculiar settings). "Suspend", on the other hand, is of little use on an
always-on desktop. So this is another one of those "it depends" things.
Of course. For this reason should be available some options, like "Optional
Menus" (Configure Panel -> Menus).
--
Serghei.
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15 Feb
15 Feb
7:14 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that appears
when one clicks
"Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with
a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just rt-clicked the
desktop. So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would present
all the options directly without having a dialog appear with them. That would be
an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level could
retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and
presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be
preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
7:16 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On 15 February 2012 14:14, David C. Rankin
<drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
This was a learning experience :-) I never used the rt click on desktop!
So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would present
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that
appears when one clicks
"Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with
a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just rt-clicked the
desktop. all the options directly without having a dialog
appear with them. That would be
an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level could
retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and
presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be
preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
We should also eliminate the dialog for right clicking on the desktop
and replace it with a similar submenu as the one outline above.
Calvin
8:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On 02/15/2012 01:16 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
We should also eliminate the dialog for right clicking
on the desktop
and replace it with a similar submenu as the one outline above.
I think think the dialog was needed due to the dynamic reading of grub menu.lst
to populate the 'restart' options listbox. I don't know if kmenu could do
that
on the fly? I haven't looked, but that was the only logic that didn't seem like
the menu itself would be able to accommodate.
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
8:12 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On 15 February 2012 15:10, David C. Rankin
<drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 02/15/2012 01:16 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Huh,
I dont' think it reads from grub, but it probably queries ksmserver to
find out what options are available. Can't we just do this at the
start of kicker?
Just a guess.
This idea i actually borrowed from KDE4's implementation of the old
skool menu. When I saw it there, i thought it was a no brainer to
bring to trinity.
Calvin
We should also eliminate the dialog for right
clicking on the desktop
and replace it with a similar submenu as the one outline above.
I think think the dialog was needed due to the dynamic reading of grub menu.lst
to populate the 'restart' options listbox. I don't know if kmenu could do
that
on the fly? I haven't looked, but that was the only logic that didn't seem like
the menu itself would be able to accommodate.
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
7:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
Yes, it is possible. And I like this entire discussion; thinking of ways
to speed up common tasks/eliminate bottlenecks is exactly what I want to
hear from the members of this list. :-)
Tim
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that
appears when one clicks
"Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog with
a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just
rt-clicked the
desktop. So you just want to create the expanding sub-menu that would
present
all the options directly without having a dialog appear with them. That
would be
an improvement for menu users. I wonder if the original logout top-level
could
retain its function to bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and
presenting the options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be
preserved while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover.
Possible? 
7:27 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
Dne st 15. února 2012 David C. Rankin napsal(a):
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I use Ctrl + Alt + Del followed by Enter to log off - usually at least 2
times a day (once at home and once at work). I like to look at the dragon
before you log off :)
A sister would be very sad if there was not dragon...
Slavek
--
I am talking about the shutdown dialog that
appears when one clicks
"Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog
with a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just
rt-clicked the desktop. So you just want to create the expanding
sub-menu that would present all the options directly without having a
dialog appear with them. That would be an improvement for menu users. I
wonder if the original logout top-level could retain its function to
bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and presenting the
options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be preserved
while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible?
7:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
Dne st 15. února 2012 David C. Rankin napsal(a):
From what I understand the dialog would still be available--there would be
an additional submenu for those who want to use it instead, but the
original functionality (Ctrl+Alt+Del or the Log Out menu option) would
still be available. The Log Out menu option in particular would spawn the
submenu if hovered over, but if clicked would bring up the logout dialog
as it always has.
At least this is the way I envision it working from everyone's
descriptions. :-)
Tim
On 02/15/2012 12:10 PM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I use Ctrl + Alt + Del followed by Enter to log off - usually at least 2
times a day (once at home and once at work). I like to look at the dragon
before you log off :)
A sister would be very sad if there was not dragon...
Slavek
-- I am talking about the shutdown dialog that
appears when one clicks
"Logout" on the Kicker panel. I want to remove this custom dialog
with a standard submenu in Kicker
That was the confusion -- I've never used it :) I've always just
rt-clicked the desktop. So you just want to create the expanding
sub-menu that would present all the options directly without having a
dialog appear with them. That would be an improvement for menu users. I
wonder if the original logout top-level could retain its function to
bring up the dialog if clicked, while expanding and presenting the
options if hovered. That way the original behavior would be preserved
while providing an enhancement of the submenu on hover. Possible? 
8:15 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
This is an interesting conversation.
I welcome anything that improves startup and shutdown speeds. KDE3 --- and by inheritance
Trinity --- has always been pathetically slow in these two areas. I submitted several
related bug reports: 1) 258, ksmserver: Logout confirmation fadeaway is too slow with
older hardware and 2) 681, Add a KControl option/check box to show/not show the exiting
"Saving Your Settings" dialog, 3) 760, TDE seems to exit too slow.
I would like to see these bugs resolved for R14.
With that said, I see a pattern in this particular discussion: unfamiliarity with all the
options.
For example, many people start X through a login manager. When used in that mode, Trinity
will show a TDE Menu option to switch users. People who start X from the command line
(rightfully) never see that menu option because they switch users by switching consoles
(Ctrl-Alt-F(1-2-3-4-5-6)).
Another example is how the logout dialog appears depending upon the configuration options
selected by the user. When the Confirm Logout check box is selected then the dialog
appears differently than when the check box is disabled. Similarly, the dialog options are
different depending upon whether the user started the session from the command line or a
login manager.
Then there are the differences between the classic menu and the kickoff menu. Also the
differences when users enable or disable saving sessions.
I have populated my Panel with the Lock/Logout applet buttons. I can logout/exit my
session with those buttons, using the desktop popup menu, the TDE menu options, or
pressing Ctrl-Alt-Delete. I use all of these options depending upon my mood and where my
fingers and mouse cursor are located the moment I decide to exit.
I would not be surprised to learn there are other logout options that I am unfamiliar.
I'm seeing in this discussion each person's own preferences and a tendency to
forget that these other options exist because each user does not see them anymore due to
long-term personal configurations. Sole users of a computer or those who start X from the
command line easily forget the Switch User option is available. Users who disable logout
confirmation easily forget the option exists. Users who use a keyboard shortcut to logout
easily forget the TDE menu options exist. Etc.
I'm not in favor of deleting the logout options from any of the places now available.
One of the great attractions of the KDE3 model is configurability. There are many ways to
logout and that is the way Trinity should be. In my own work flow with various apps, often
I use different methods to accomplish my goal. I don't like being stuck to using only
one option. If I was such a user then GNOME 3 or Unity would fit that style of usage. Each
desktop has a place and Trinity's place is to empower the user to decide.
Before hacking code I ask that anybody interested in this topic actually use all of the
various options, change all of the related configuration options, test starting X from
both the command line and a login manager, populate the panel with the applet buttons, use
both TDE menus, and then stand back to realize how all of the various options relate. This
is a huge "big picture" conversation and until everybody involved agrees about
the big picture, any code hacking is likely to upset those users who do things
differently. Please don't assume everybody uses Trinity in the same manner. I have
made that same mistake too often. :)
Darrell
5:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 19:25:38 Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hi,
I think that we should just do away with the shutdown dialog. The same
task could be easily achieved via the Kicker menu. A Leave submenu
would be present and would expand to have all the options. Users would
then be prompted with a dialog box "are you sure you want to X?"
This would:
1. Allow for a streamlined and efficient interface
2. create a more consistent interface, custom dialogs are not good
because they require more code, and are more complicated for a user to
learn. The KSM functionality would not be compromised anyway, and you
could still issue the same commands to it.
3. reduce clutter in the Kicker menu by moving Lock Session, Switch
User, and Save Session to the new Leave submenu.
What do you think?
I agree. I want to have Suspend button directly in kicker, because this is the
one which I use very often. I think we can add few checkboxes in kicker
preferences, where we can chose which buttons should appear in kicker.
Calvin
--
Serghei.
5:59 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Removing ksmserver shutdown dialog
On Wednesday 15 February 2012 19:58:12 Serghei Amelian wrote:
[...]
I agree. I want to have Suspend button directly in
kicker, because this is
the one which I use very often. I think we can add few checkboxes in kicker
preferences, where we can chose which buttons should appear in kicker.
> Calvin
No kicker, but kick menu :)
--
Serghei.
4694
days inactive
4695
days old
16 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
David C. Rankin -
E. Liddell -
Jay -
Serghei Amelian -
Slávek Banko -
Timothy Pearson