I am fine with both versions. I think the second one misses the point that TDE is a DE which puts productivity before fancy- useless-bothering visual effects, which I think is the main reason why people use TDE. Perhaps the following version is a little better:
I understand your feelings. :)
A goal of a press release is to offer a positive spin and focus on the announced product rather than what other products lack. We want to refrain from KDE bashing. If you browse the dev mail list archives from a while ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
I'm not afraid of bashing KDE4, especially the piece of shit known as akonadi, or the obvious relentless fan-boyism that permeates the entire KDE culture. Yet I'd rather we follow the advice of Voltaire's Candide and just "tend our own garden."
"Recently I discovered Trinity. I immediately felt at home with this traditional computer desktop environment, which focuses on productivity rather than the latest development in visual effects. In these days of tablets and smart phones, traditional desktop environments still play important roles. The TDE development team is friendly and anyone such as myself may contribute to preserve and enhance this fantastic desktop environment." --- Michele Calgaro, Italy
Feel free to massage it again if you find it appropriate.
Looks fine and thank you. Subject to final review by other team members of course. :)
Darrell
If you browse the dev mail list archives from a while ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
I think I know which blog, which post and which developer you are referring to. IMO the only thing that post achieved was to damage that developer's reputation. That developer perhaps forgot that even if he is the author of a nice piece of code, KDE and many other Linux related projects are free software. In fact each KDE files contains the following text:
" This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public License version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation."
So anyone is free to fork an existing project and do what he wants with it as long as he respect the GNU Licence.
"Recently I discovered Trinity. I immediately felt at home with this traditional computer desktop environment, which focuses on productivity rather than the latest development in visual effects. In these days of tablets and smart phones, traditional desktop environments still play important roles. The TDE development team is friendly and anyone such as myself may contribute to preserve and enhance this fantastic desktop environment." --- Michele Calgaro, Italy
Ok, if no one objects, let's settle on this version.
Michele
On Wednesday 25 December 2013 13:11:57 Darrell Anderson wrote:
I am fine with both versions. I think the second one misses the point that TDE is a DE which puts productivity before fancy- useless-bothering visual effects, which I think is the main reason why people use TDE. Perhaps the following version is a little
better:
I understand your feelings. :)
A goal of a press release is to offer a positive spin and focus on the announced product rather than what other products lack. We want to refrain from KDE bashing. If you browse the dev mail list archives from a while ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
No, I stopped because there was nothing coming from Trinity lately which I thought worthwhile to comment on. And you see I haven't forgotten you either and still follow your development ;-)
I'm not afraid of bashing KDE4, especially the piece of shit known as akonadi,
And here we see, why I wrote in my blog post you refer to that "It’s pure hatred against KDE technologies and this dominates the development of Trinity." - I think your comment here speaks for yourself.
If you think KDE is shit, write it. Don't go the way of trying to avoid any bitching against KDE. It's not true and your archives are public. Everybody can read it and what you really mean.
Nevertheless, no hard feelings from my side. I wish you all success for your release and (although already a little bit late) a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Martin
At a risk of starting a flame war, i think Aaron has some good comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.htm...
On 26 December 2013 15:49, Martin Graesslin mgraesslin@kde.org wrote:
On Wednesday 25 December 2013 13:11:57 Darrell Anderson wrote:
I am fine with both versions. I think the second one misses the point that TDE is a DE which puts productivity before fancy- useless-bothering visual effects, which I think is the main reason why people use TDE. Perhaps the following version is a little
better:
I understand your feelings. :)
A goal of a press release is to offer a positive spin and focus on the announced product rather than what other products lack. We want to refrain from KDE bashing. If you browse the dev mail list archives from a while ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
No, I stopped because there was nothing coming from Trinity lately which I thought worthwhile to comment on. And you see I haven't forgotten you either and still follow your development ;-)
I'm not afraid of bashing KDE4, especially the piece of shit known as akonadi,
And here we see, why I wrote in my blog post you refer to that "It’s pure hatred against KDE technologies and this dominates the development of Trinity." - I think your comment here speaks for yourself.
If you think KDE is shit, write it. Don't go the way of trying to avoid any bitching against KDE. It's not true and your archives are public. Everybody can read it and what you really mean.
Nevertheless, no hard feelings from my side. I wish you all success for your release and (although already a little bit late) a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Martin
At a risk of starting a flame war, i think Aaron has some good comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.htm...
I think we have established over time that there are people who do not want to use the symantic desktop, or at the very least want their desktop search as a separate, non-integrated utility in the finest UNIX tradition. The fact that large parts of the KDE SC require semantic desktop components to even install is a deal-breaker for those people, myself included.
By the way, the faults of KDE, and the reasons for TDE's existence, lie in a thousand little bugs and inefficiencies that would take us far too long to isolate, repair, and fight to get fixed upstream. One prominent example is that "cashew" in the top right corner of the desktop--how many KDE SC releases did it take before that became an option?
Please take this discussion off-list. How ironic that a positive PR thread will end up damaging TDE even more in the PR arena.
Tim
On Thursday 26 December 2013 15:28:42 Timothy Pearson wrote:
At a risk of starting a flame war, i think Aaron has some good comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.h tml
I think we have established over time that there are people who do not want to use the symantic desktop, or at the very least want their desktop search as a separate, non-integrated utility in the finest UNIX tradition.
Unix tradition? Doing one thing at a time and doing it right? Yeah, that's what a semantic desktop is thought for. Instead of having bad search implemented in many components, there is one tool which provides search and doesn't do anything else. Sounds like what UNIX is about, isn't it?
The fact that large parts of the KDE SC require semantic desktop components to even install is a deal-breaker for those people, myself included.
To my knowledge nothing has a hard runtime requirement. Install requirement is also very uncommon (required in kdepim). In most modules it's an optional build dependency (e.g. in kde-workspace). It's the decision of the distributions to provide this dependency. If there were a large demand for it, distros would have packaged without. About the cost of having it installed please read: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/11/kwin-a-solution-for-non-kde-ba...
By the way, the faults of KDE, and the reasons for TDE's existence, lie in a thousand little bugs and inefficiencies that would take us far too long to isolate, repair, and fight to get fixed upstream. One prominent example is that "cashew" in the top right corner of the desktop--how many KDE SC releases did it take before that became an option?
None. OpenSUSE provided a config option in 4.0 (https://blogs.kde.org/2008/06/05/opensuse-110-dont-cashews ) and in their 11.1 release a desktop completely without cashew. Given that they did not provide it for the next releases it doesn't sound like a needed feature or a success story.
Please take this discussion off-list. How ironic that a positive PR thread will end up damaging TDE even more in the PR arena.
I decided to answer to this thread, because I saw that you still have a wrong understanding of several components of KDE and still believe in "faults" which do not exist. For arguments it's bad if one derive them from wrong assumptions. I don't expect any of you to become friend with KDE software any more. But please just forget everything you think to know about KDE software. You don't understand the software and you don't want to understand it. That's all fine. But then don't use to argument your existence with such wrong understandings. Focus on what you do: providing a classic KDE-like experience - I think that's what I told you years ago (work on kdesktop/kicker and use the clearly better parts like KWin).
Cheers Martin
Can't you just stop poking in the same hole again and again?
Nik
Am Freitag, 27. Dezember 2013 schrieb Martin Graesslin:
On Thursday 26 December 2013 15:28:42 Timothy Pearson wrote:
At a risk of starting a flame war, i think Aaron has some good comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-righ t.h tml
I think we have established over time that there are people who do not want to use the symantic desktop, or at the very least want their desktop search as a separate, non-integrated utility in the finest UNIX tradition.
Unix tradition? Doing one thing at a time and doing it right? Yeah, that's what a semantic desktop is thought for. Instead of having bad search implemented in many components, there is one tool which provides search and doesn't do anything else. Sounds like what UNIX is about, isn't it?
The fact that large parts of the KDE SC require semantic desktop components to even install is a deal-breaker for those people, myself included.
To my knowledge nothing has a hard runtime requirement. Install requirement is also very uncommon (required in kdepim). In most modules it's an optional build dependency (e.g. in kde-workspace). It's the decision of the distributions to provide this dependency. If there were a large demand for it, distros would have packaged without. About the cost of having it installed please read: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/11/kwin-a-solution-for-non-kde-b ased-desktop-environments/
By the way, the faults of KDE, and the reasons for TDE's existence, lie in a thousand little bugs and inefficiencies that would take us far too long to isolate, repair, and fight to get fixed upstream. One prominent example is that "cashew" in the top right corner of the desktop--how many KDE SC releases did it take before that became an option?
None. OpenSUSE provided a config option in 4.0 (https://blogs.kde.org/2008/06/05/opensuse-110-dont-cashews ) and in their 11.1 release a desktop completely without cashew. Given that they did not provide it for the next releases it doesn't sound like a needed feature or a success story.
Please take this discussion off-list. How ironic that a positive PR thread will end up damaging TDE even more in the PR arena.
I decided to answer to this thread, because I saw that you still have a wrong understanding of several components of KDE and still believe in "faults" which do not exist. For arguments it's bad if one derive them from wrong assumptions. I don't expect any of you to become friend with KDE software any more. But please just forget everything you think to know about KDE software. You don't understand the software and you don't want to understand it. That's all fine. But then don't use to argument your existence with such wrong understandings. Focus on what you do: providing a classic KDE-like experience - I think that's what I told you years ago (work on kdesktop/kicker and use the clearly better parts like KWin).
Cheers Martin
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Freitag, 27. Dezember 2013 schrieb Martin Graesslin:
<vacuous, repetitious raving deleted>
Can't you just stop poking in the same hole again and again?
Nik
I've had him kill-filed for over a year now. Maybe the rest of you should do likewise? Save your psychic energy. Focus on Trinity and the Good Work you do.
Thank you and Happy New Near! Jonesy
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Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Jonesy -
Martin Graesslin -
Michele Calgaro -
Timothy Pearson