25 Dec
2013
25 Dec
'13
7:11 p.m.
I am fine with both versions. I think the second one
misses the
point that TDE is a DE which puts productivity before fancy-
useless-bothering visual effects, which I think is the main reason
why people use TDE. Perhaps the following version is a little
better:
I understand your feelings. :)
A goal of a press release is to offer a positive spin and focus on
the announced product rather than what other products lack. We want
to refrain from KDE bashing. If you browse the dev mail list
archives from a while ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE
devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty
spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE
devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that
public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog
entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software
philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we
were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed
away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
I'm not afraid of bashing KDE4, especially the piece of shit known
as akonadi, or the obvious relentless fan-boyism that permeates the
entire KDE culture. Yet I'd rather we follow the advice of
Voltaire's Candide and just "tend our own garden."
------------------------------
"Recently I discovered Trinity. I immediately felt at home with
this traditional computer desktop environment, which focuses on
productivity rather than the latest development in visual effects.
In these days of tablets and smart phones, traditional desktop
environments still play important roles. The TDE development team
is friendly and anyone such as myself may contribute to preserve
and enhance this fantastic desktop environment." --- Michele
Calgaro, Italy
------------------------------
Feel free to massage it again if you find it appropriate.
Looks fine and thank you. Subject to final review by other team
members of course. :)
Darrell
26 Dec
26 Dec
2:56 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Opinion of Trinity R14.0.0
If you browse the dev mail list archives from a while
ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE
devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty
spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE
devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that
public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog
entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software
philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we
were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed
away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
I think I know which blog, which post and which developer you are referring to.
IMO the only thing that post achieved was to damage that developer's reputation.
That developer perhaps forgot that even if he is the author of a nice piece of code,
KDE and many other Linux related projects are free software. In fact each KDE files
contains the following text:
" This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU Library General Public
License version 2 as published by the Free Software Foundation."
So anyone is free to fork an existing project and do what he wants with it as long as he
respect the GNU Licence.
------------------------------
"Recently I discovered Trinity. I immediately felt at home with
this traditional computer desktop environment, which focuses on
productivity rather than the latest development in visual effects.
In these days of tablets and smart phones, traditional desktop
environments still play important roles. The TDE development team
is friendly and anyone such as myself may contribute to preserve
and enhance this fantastic desktop environment." --- Michele Calgaro, Italy
------------------------------
Ok, if no one objects, let's settle on this version.
Michele
8:49 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Opinion of Trinity R14.0.0
On Wednesday 25 December 2013 13:11:57 Darrell Anderson wrote:
No, I stopped because there was
nothing coming from Trinity lately which I
thought worthwhile to comment on. And you see I haven't forgotten you either
and still follow your development ;-)
I am fine with
both versions. I think the second one misses the
point that TDE is a DE which puts productivity before fancy-
useless-bothering visual effects, which I think is the main reason
why people use TDE. Perhaps the following version is a little
better:
I understand your feelings. :)
A goal of a press release is to offer a positive spin and focus on
the announced product rather than what other products lack. We want
to refrain from KDE bashing. If you browse the dev mail list
archives from a while ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE
devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty
spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE
devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that
public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog
entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software
philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we
were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed
away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
I'm not afraid of bashing KDE4, especially the piece of shit known
as akonadi,
And here we see, why I wrote in my blog post you refer to that
"It’s pure
hatred against KDE technologies and this dominates the development of
Trinity." - I think your comment here speaks for yourself.
If you think KDE is shit, write it. Don't go the way of trying to avoid any
bitching against KDE. It's not true and your archives are public. Everybody
can read it and what you really mean.
Nevertheless, no hard feelings from my side. I wish you all success for your
release and (although already a little bit late) a Merry Christmas and a Happy
New Year.
Martin
9:19 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Opinion of Trinity R14.0.0
At a risk of starting a flame war, i think Aaron has some good
comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.ht…
On 26 December 2013 15:49, Martin Graesslin <mgraesslin(a)kde.org> wrote:
On Wednesday 25 December 2013 13:11:57 Darrell
Anderson wrote:
No, I stopped because there was
nothing coming from Trinity lately which I
thought worthwhile to comment on. And you see I haven't forgotten you either
and still follow your development ;-)
I am fine
with both versions. I think the second one misses the
point that TDE is a DE which puts productivity before fancy-
useless-bothering visual effects, which I think is the main reason
why people use TDE. Perhaps the following version is a little
better:
I understand your feelings. :)
A goal of a press release is to offer a positive spin and focus on
the announced product rather than what other products lack. We want
to refrain from KDE bashing. If you browse the dev mail list
archives from a while ago, you'll discover that a couple of KDE
devs invited themselves into our mail list and started a nasty
spitting contest. Got rather heated. Nobody won and one of the KDE
devs took to his blog to continue bashing Trinity. He stopped that
public campaign when a lot of people posted comments to his blog
entry to leave us the hell alone, that the free/libre software
philosophy allows and embraces forking. He was reminded that we
were not harming anybody. After those public rebuttals he stayed
away, but I have not forgotten him or his tirades.
I'm not afraid of bashing KDE4, especially the piece of shit known
as akonadi,
And here we see, why I wrote in my blog post you refer to that
"It’s pure
hatred against KDE technologies and this dominates the development of
Trinity." - I think your comment here speaks for yourself.
If you think KDE is shit, write it. Don't go the way of trying to avoid any
bitching against KDE. It's not true and your archives are public. Everybody
can read it and what you really mean.
Nevertheless, no hard feelings from my side. I wish you all success for your
release and (although already a little bit late) a Merry Christmas and a Happy
New Year.
Martin 
9:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Opinion of Trinity R14.0.0
At a risk of starting a flame war, i think Aaron has
some good
comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.ht…
I think we have established over time that there are people who do not
want to use the symantic desktop, or at the very least want their desktop
search as a separate, non-integrated utility in the finest UNIX tradition.
The fact that large parts of the KDE SC require semantic desktop
components to even install is a deal-breaker for those people, myself
included.
By the way, the faults of KDE, and the reasons for TDE's existence, lie in
a thousand little bugs and inefficiencies that would take us far too long
to isolate, repair, and fight to get fixed upstream. One prominent
example is that "cashew" in the top right corner of the desktop--how many
KDE SC releases did it take before that became an option?
Please take this discussion off-list. How ironic that a positive PR
thread will end up damaging TDE even more in the PR arena.
Tim
27 Dec
27 Dec
8:04 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Opinion of Trinity R14.0.0
On Thursday 26 December 2013 15:28:42 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Unix
tradition? Doing one thing at a time and doing it right? Yeah, that's
what a semantic desktop is thought for. Instead of having bad search
implemented in many components, there is one tool which provides search and
doesn't do anything else. Sounds like what UNIX is about, isn't it?
At a risk of
starting a flame war, i think Aaron has some good
comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.h
tml
I think we have established over time that there are people who do not
want to use the symantic desktop, or at the very least want their desktop
search as a separate, non-integrated utility in the finest UNIX tradition. The fact that large parts of the KDE SC require
semantic desktop
components to even install is a deal-breaker for those people, myself
included.
To my knowledge nothing has a hard runtime requirement. Install
requirement is
also very uncommon (required in kdepim). In most modules it's an optional
build dependency (e.g. in kde-workspace). It's the decision of the
distributions to provide this dependency. If there were a large demand for it,
distros would have packaged without. About the cost of having it installed
please read:
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/11/kwin-a-solution-for-non-kde-b…
By the way, the faults of KDE, and the reasons for TDE's existence, lie in
a thousand little bugs and inefficiencies that would take us far too long
to isolate, repair, and fight to get fixed upstream. One prominent
example is that "cashew" in the top right corner of the desktop--how many
KDE SC releases did it take before that became an option?
None. OpenSUSE provided a
config option in 4.0
(https://blogs.kde.org/2008/06/05/opensuse-110-dont-cashews ) and in their
11.1 release a desktop completely without cashew. Given that they did not
provide it for the next releases it doesn't sound like a needed feature or a
success story.
Please take this discussion off-list. How ironic that a positive PR
thread will end up damaging TDE even more in the PR arena.
I decided to answer to
this thread, because I saw that you still have a wrong
understanding of several components of KDE and still believe in "faults" which
do not exist. For arguments it's bad if one derive them from wrong
assumptions. I don't expect any of you to become friend with KDE software any
more. But please just forget everything you think to know about KDE software.
You don't understand the software and you don't want to understand it. That's
all fine. But then don't use to argument your existence with such wrong
understandings. Focus on what you do: providing a classic KDE-like experience
- I think that's what I told you years ago (work on kdesktop/kicker and use
the clearly better parts like KWin).
Cheers
Martin
9:01 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Opinion of Trinity R14.0.0
Can't you just stop poking in the same hole again and again?
Nik
Am Freitag, 27. Dezember 2013 schrieb Martin Graesslin:
On Thursday 26 December 2013 15:28:42 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
Unix tradition? Doing one thing at a time and doing it right? Yeah, that's
what a semantic desktop is thought for. Instead of having bad search
implemented in many components, there is one tool which provides search and
doesn't do anything else. Sounds like what UNIX is about, isn't it?
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with
the NSA.
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
Einnehmerstraße 14
A-4810 Gmunden
Tel.: +43 650 82 11 724
email: office(a)klepp.biz
At a risk
of starting a flame war, i think Aaron has some good
comments about why you shouldn't hate on Nepomunk/Akondai
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-righ
t.h tml
I think we have established over time that there are people who do not
want to use the symantic desktop, or at the very least want their desktop
search as a separate, non-integrated utility in the finest UNIX
tradition. The fact that large parts of the KDE SC require
semantic desktop
components to even install is a deal-breaker for those people, myself
included.
To my knowledge nothing has a hard runtime requirement. Install requirement
is also very uncommon (required in kdepim). In most modules it's an
optional build dependency (e.g. in kde-workspace). It's the decision of the
distributions to provide this dependency. If there were a large demand for
it, distros would have packaged without. About the cost of having it
installed please read:
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/11/kwin-a-solution-for-non-kde-b
ased-desktop-environments/
By the way, the faults of KDE, and the reasons
for TDE's existence, lie
in a thousand little bugs and inefficiencies that would take us far too
long to isolate, repair, and fight to get fixed upstream. One prominent
example is that "cashew" in the top right corner of the desktop--how many
KDE SC releases did it take before that became an option?
None. OpenSUSE provided a config option in 4.0
(https://blogs.kde.org/2008/06/05/opensuse-110-dont-cashews ) and in their
11.1 release a desktop completely without cashew. Given that they did not
provide it for the next releases it doesn't sound like a needed feature or
a success story.
Please take this discussion off-list. How ironic
that a positive PR
thread will end up damaging TDE even more in the PR arena.
I decided to answer to this thread, because I saw that you still have a
wrong understanding of several components of KDE and still believe in
"faults" which do not exist. For arguments it's bad if one derive them
from
wrong assumptions. I don't expect any of you to become friend with KDE
software any more. But please just forget everything you think to know
about KDE software. You don't understand the software and you don't want to
understand it. That's all fine. But then don't use to argument your
existence with such wrong understandings. Focus on what you do: providing a
classic KDE-like experience - I think that's what I told you years ago
(work on kdesktop/kicker and use the clearly better parts like KWin).
Cheers
Martin 
3:29 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Opinion of Trinity R14.0.0
On Fri, 27 Dec 2013, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Freitag, 27. Dezember 2013 schrieb Martin Graesslin:
<vacuous, repetitious raving deleted>
Can't you just stop poking in the same hole again
and again?
Nik
I've had him kill-filed for over a year now.
Maybe the rest of you should do likewise?
Save your psychic energy.
Focus on Trinity and the Good Work you do.
Thank you and Happy New Near!
Jonesy
3781
days inactive
3783
days old
7 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Jonesy -
Martin Graesslin -
Michele Calgaro -
Timothy Pearson