(Repost: originally posted as a reply creating broken thread to "Re: [trinity-devel] [Win+] shortcut default proposal - Efficient Desktop Manipulation". Posted again to insure proper threading)
---------Original---------
This got missed at the meeting, so it's getting announced here: an initial mascot and logo proposal.
The mascot doesn't have a name right now, just a cryptic designation of L315 so it can be referred to as something until it has earned a name.
It represents the user's individual TDE installation, typically customized to that user's needs, and as such, can be found in multiple strange configurations and doing various things.
The Etherpad page is here: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/8
If you just want to look at a quick single image, here's L315 playing a game with an Atari 2600 joystick: http://imagebin.org/143362 -- this is my second favorite image so far.
I may add the plain image of L315 standing at attention at some point, but I'm wondering if a better default pose is possible.
This includes a few situations and configurations of L315, and at the bottom shows three applications of a simple and efficient logo derived from L315. Logos need to be as simple as possible, and this one qualifies as simple, and is directly tied to L315. My main worry is that there might be someone else with a nearly identical logo that I don't know about.
What I need from you: nits with the implementation of the concept, with L315's configuration, with the logo in the three icon ideas, and possibly with the entire base idea I'm working with. Suggestions for improving the artwork only apply if you have immediately fallen in love with L315. 8)
Important thing to remember: Failed branding mascots are by definition forgettable. We want to to be memorable.
James Gholston
---------End Original---------
I also tossed out the idea of a Phoenix as a logo/mascot "A phoenix dies a fiery death but then rises again from the ashes." A good KDE3-Trinity analogy. (plus a pretty cool looking logo)
A few ideas (for discussion only) I has many forms. The more abstract -- the better:
http://www.tchan.de/bilder/phoenixgross.gif http://davidalves.net/images/robocode/phoenix3.jpg http://www.sightquest.com/images/cat/phoenixbird.jpg http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~torrey/phoenix.gif http://affiliates.art.com/get.art?T=15043079&A=028615&L=8&P=1261... http://www.crimsonmonkey.com/phoenix.jpg http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0Hr9P3nN8WTDzVAPx8O9a6yO--aCBsxhJO... http://hornconcerto.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/phoenix_force.jpg
David C. Rankin wrote:
I also tossed out the idea of a Phoenix as a logo/mascot "A phoenix dies
a fiery death but then rises again from the ashes." A good KDE3-Trinity analogy. (plus a pretty cool looking logo)<
Questions: Does the Phoenix represent what we will be in 5+ years? Do we want to be known for rising up from ashes; do we want to be known for what we aspire to? Is the Phoenix overused? Is there something similar to a phoenix that might accurately represent what we aspire to?
Questions for the Potato Head concept: does the abstract concept of something fun (possibly even silly) and highly configurable fail to represent what we will be in 5+ years? Does it fail to clearly describe what we might aspire to? Is there something that might be similar to this with more possibilities that I've not thought of?
Questions for this guy: http://imagebin.org/143360 Does it look too alien? Is it uninteresting when it stands at attention like this? Does ambiguity about whether it's a robot or something else make it less memorable? Is there a better way to implement the Mr Potato Head concept?
I'm pushing for the mascot before a logo because I believe it to be the less challenging problem to. I definitely am not seeking any sort of commitment at this stage, lest we get locked into a suboptimal choice.
I presented L315 as something to throw tomatoes at. 8) Tell me what's wrong, boring, irritating, or whatever with it. I need to know so I can present a better idea. It might even inspire someone else to iteratively piece together a better solution. Admittedly as this is a marketing problem rather than an engineering one, what's good and bad can run the risk of being too subjective...
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2001-01-17/
Discussion from IRC indicates the possibility of exploring the idea of a robot that already has all the features the user might be wanting. It may take a few days for me to come up with something for that. Obviously an open brainstorm for possible directions might also help with results.
Our mascot might not convey everything I'm hoping for in the end, but it would be good for it to have a hopefully inspiring meaning behind it.
If we come up with something that would look good playing tennis with Tux, that's obviously a bonus... 8)
James Gholston (Strangelv)
I think for the immediate future (2+ years or so?) that Trinity should not get fancy with logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K with a T. That provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from KDE3. Simple and straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new logo should be considered.
Darrell
--- On Thu, 3/17/11, jamesg@dimensionality.com jamesg@dimensionality.com wrote:
From: jamesg@dimensionality.com jamesg@dimensionality.com Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1 To: trinity-devel@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Date: Thursday, March 17, 2011, 12:08 PM David C. Rankin wrote:
I also tossed out the idea of a Phoenix as a
logo/mascot "A phoenix dies a fiery death but then rises again from the ashes." A good KDE3-Trinity analogy. (plus a pretty cool looking logo)<
Questions: Does the Phoenix represent what we will be in 5+ years? Do we want to be known for rising up from ashes; do we want to be known for what we aspire to? Is the Phoenix overused? Is there something similar to a phoenix that might accurately represent what we aspire to?
Questions for the Potato Head concept: does the abstract concept of something fun (possibly even silly) and highly configurable fail to represent what we will be in 5+ years? Does it fail to clearly describe what we might aspire to? Is there something that might be similar to this with more possibilities that I've not thought of?
Questions for this guy: http://imagebin.org/143360 Does it look too alien? Is it uninteresting when it stands at attention like this? Does ambiguity about whether it's a robot or something else make it less memorable? Is there a better way to implement the Mr Potato Head concept?
I'm pushing for the mascot before a logo because I believe it to be the less challenging problem to. I definitely am not seeking any sort of commitment at this stage, lest we get locked into a suboptimal choice.
I presented L315 as something to throw tomatoes at. 8) Tell me what's wrong, boring, irritating, or whatever with it. I need to know so I can present a better idea. It might even inspire someone else to iteratively piece together a better solution. Admittedly as this is a marketing problem rather than an engineering one, what's good and bad can run the risk of being too subjective...
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2001-01-17/
Discussion from IRC indicates the possibility of exploring the idea of a robot that already has all the features the user might be wanting. It may take a few days for me to come up with something for that. Obviously an open brainstorm for possible directions might also help with results.
Our mascot might not convey everything I'm hoping for in the end, but it would be good for it to have a hopefully inspiring meaning behind it.
If we come up with something that would look good playing tennis with Tux, that's obviously a bonus... 8)
James Gholston (Strangelv)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
On 17 March 2011 15:23, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I think for the immediate future (2+ years or so?) that Trinity should not get fancy with logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K with a T. That provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from KDE3. Simple and straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new logo should be considered.
Darrell
I think that brainstorming now cannot hurt. I also think that we do need to look into working on themes, logos, websites all that jazz. instead of being stuck with some crappy old logo, maybe it would be good to have a new one. People see fresh logo, (even if it the same concept of the T) and a new theme, as well as anything else on .13 or after, they will also assume we are making improvements elsewere.
take windows for example, its been getting progressively worse since XP, yet each time no one notices because they keep making it move attractive.
Just my thoughts
Calvin Morrison
On 3/17/11, calvin morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 March 2011 15:23, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I think for the immediate future (2+ years or so?) that Trinity should not get fancy with logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K with a T. That provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from KDE3. Simple and straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new logo should be considered.
Darrell
I think that brainstorming now cannot hurt. I also think that we do need to look into working on themes, logos, websites all that jazz. instead of being stuck with some crappy old logo, maybe it would be good to have a new one. People see fresh logo, (even if it the same concept of the T) and a new theme, as well as anything else on .13 or after, they will also assume we are making improvements elsewere.
take windows for example, its been getting progressively worse since XP, yet each time no one notices because they keep making it move attractive.
Just my thoughts
Calvin Morrison
I completely agree, it couldn't hurt.
Kate
On 03/17/2011 09:59 PM, Katheryne Draven wrote:
On 3/17/11, calvin morrisonmutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 March 2011 15:23, Darrell Andersonhumanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I think for the immediate future (2+ years or so?) that Trinity should not get fancy with logos or cuteness.
Tim has already modified the traditional KDE3 logos and substituted the K with a T. That provides acknowledgment of roots distinguishes Trinity from KDE3. Simple and straightforward.
In two to three years, if Trinity is alive and well, then perhaps a new logo should be considered.
Darrell
I think that brainstorming now cannot hurt. I also think that we do need to look into working on themes, logos, websites all that jazz. instead of being stuck with some crappy old logo, maybe it would be good to have a new one. People see fresh logo, (even if it the same concept of the T) and a new theme, as well as anything else on .13 or after, they will also assume we are making improvements elsewere.
take windows for example, its been getting progressively worse since XP, yet each time no one notices because they keep making it move attractive.
Just my thoughts
Calvin Morrison
I completely agree, it couldn't hurt.
Kate
I don'tknow it _always_ hurts me to think ;)
Our existing placeholder logo is one we can only use for as long as KDE will let us. There is no way it would hold up in court -- it's too blatantly derived from theirs.
What I'm wanting to do is work out replacement branding in the time we have, and do it well, so that we only need to do a major change of branding once. Whether it's a robot, a bird, a jumping spider, can opener, or whatever else we might decide on.
I may be erring on the side of overthinking it, but that seems a safer direction than not thinking it through.
Anyone else have comments on L315 other than the ones I've gotten from chat or private email?
Strangelv
Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from the KDE non-profit organization taking that issue to court. Generally, courts are supposed to be remedies of last resort, which means everybody in this group ignoring cease-and-desist letters, etc. Yup, that would go over good in the daily free/libre software news. :)
Does the KDE3 license agreement say anything explicit about logos and trademarks? Are those logos actually registered trademarks? Copyrighted?
How does using a logo that looks similar to old KDE3 logos infringe or impair usage of KDE4 logos?
I don't think those questions matter because the KDE people abandoned the KDE3 software. Abandoned rights means no rights. In common law, abandoned property becomes owned by the first party claiming ownership.
We have an attorney in our group who probably can answer such questions.
Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote no.
I'm content with the logo art work already done by Tim.
If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)), how about working on some login splash screens for Trinity? Or some wallpaper?
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, jamesg@dimensionality.com jamesg@dimensionality.com wrote:
From: jamesg@dimensionality.com jamesg@dimensionality.com Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Mascot and logo, Proposal 1 To: trinity-devel@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 5:36 AM
Our existing placeholder logo is one we can only use for as long as KDE will let us. There is no way it would hold up in court -- it's too blatantly derived from theirs.
What I'm wanting to do is work out replacement branding in the time we have, and do it well, so that we only need to do a major change of branding once. Whether it's a robot, a bird, a jumping spider, can opener, or whatever else we might decide on.
I may be erring on the side of overthinking it, but that seems a safer direction than not thinking it through.
Anyone else have comments on L315 other than the ones I've gotten from chat or private email?
Strangelv
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Darrell Anderson wrote:
Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote no.<
It's actually not a yes or no question, but then you're objecting to the entire idea in the first place...
Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from the KDE non-profit
organization taking that issue to court.<
If it came to fistcuffs, trademark law would force their hand, lest anyone be able to use it for anything (and Firefox has already created the precedent, thus the existence of IceCat, IceWeasel, et c.) -- but there are other reasons we probably should have more distinct branding. As more people run into KDE 4+, do we really want branding confusable for theirs? So they see our logo and assume we're just like KDE 4 or 5 and use Gnome instead? (That would make Miguel de Icaza's day -- he vehemently wants everything KDE related (this especially includes us) to cease to exist last I heard -- my interest in trying out Mono evaporated when I read that article...)
If nothing else, would it not be prudent to have something to use should things change and any reasons for not changing it evaporate?
If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)), how about working on some
login splash screens for Trinity? Or some wallpaper?<
The hard part I've been having is FINDING the locations of the artwork I consider most urgent to update (the KDE dragon artwork when one looks at Help->About Trinity in Konqueror, for a glaring example). Failing miserably at this, I've since decided to go with the other angle and simply find what I can that needs to be updated. Most of what I have so far are screenshots that need replacing.
If you can find the locations of things needing to be replaced (K-gear logos, cute dragon mascots, et c.) PLEASE add them to:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/14
Many thanks in advance! 8)
Strangelv
Firefox did not establish any precedent. The Mozilla people barked and the Debian people jumped. Nothing legal was decided. Possibly the Mozilla people would have won had the Debian people resisted, but who knows?
I don't know about what Miguel de Icaza might have said. A first year law student would recognize such remarks as hearsay. :)
Bear in mind that right now most everybody is focused on creating a product: form before function. Cmake ports are more important to me right now than logos. :)
With that said, somebody probably needs to think about the issue. You might be correct that new logos are needed or are even wise. I don't have a dog in the fight. :)
Regarding art work, there is an entire package devoted to that: kdeartwork. You can download the 3.5.12 binary package, unzip/unpack, and then study everything. In that package you'll find screen savers, styles, themes, splash screens, emoticons, icons, sounds, and wallpaper.
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, jamesg@dimensionality.com jamesg@dimensionality.com wrote:
From: jamesg@dimensionality.com jamesg@dimensionality.com Subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork To: trinity-devel@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 1:26 PM Darrell Anderson wrote:
Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote no.<
It's actually not a yes or no question, but then you're objecting to the entire idea in the first place...
Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from the KDE
non-profit organization taking that issue to court.<
If it came to fistcuffs, trademark law would force their hand, lest anyone be able to use it for anything (and Firefox has already created the precedent, thus the existence of IceCat, IceWeasel, et c.) -- but there are other reasons we probably should have more distinct branding. As more people run into KDE 4+, do we really want branding confusable for theirs? So they see our logo and assume we're just like KDE 4 or 5 and use Gnome instead? (That would make Miguel de Icaza's day -- he vehemently wants everything KDE related (this especially includes us) to cease to exist last I heard -- my interest in trying out Mono evaporated when I read that article...)
If nothing else, would it not be prudent to have something to use should things change and any reasons for not changing it evaporate?
If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)), how
about working on some login splash screens for Trinity? Or some wallpaper?<
The hard part I've been having is FINDING the locations of the artwork I consider most urgent to update (the KDE dragon artwork when one looks at Help->About Trinity in Konqueror, for a glaring example). Failing miserably at this, I've since decided to go with the other angle and simply find what I can that needs to be updated. Most of what I have so far are screenshots that need replacing.
If you can find the locations of things needing to be replaced (K-gear logos, cute dragon mascots, et c.) PLEASE add them to:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/14
Many thanks in advance! 8)
Strangelv
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Form before function? Hmm. I better take a nap! :D
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed Artwork To: trinity-devel@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 2:40 PM Firefox did not establish any precedent. The Mozilla people barked and the Debian people jumped. Nothing legal was decided. Possibly the Mozilla people would have won had the Debian people resisted, but who knows?
I don't know about what Miguel de Icaza might have said. A first year law student would recognize such remarks as hearsay. :)
Bear in mind that right now most everybody is focused on creating a product: form before function. Cmake ports are more important to me right now than logos. :)
With that said, somebody probably needs to think about the issue. You might be correct that new logos are needed or are even wise. I don't have a dog in the fight. :)
Regarding art work, there is an entire package devoted to that: kdeartwork. You can download the 3.5.12 binary package, unzip/unpack, and then study everything. In that package you'll find screen savers, styles, themes, splash screens, emoticons, icons, sounds, and wallpaper.
Darrell
--- On Fri, 3/18/11, jamesg@dimensionality.com jamesg@dimensionality.com wrote:
From: jamesg@dimensionality.com
Subject: [trinity-devel] Trademarks and Needed
Artwork
To: trinity-devel@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Date: Friday, March 18, 2011, 1:26 PM Darrell Anderson wrote:
Regarding that drawing you refer, I would vote
no.<
It's actually not a yes or no question, but then
you're
objecting to the entire idea in the first place...
Hold up in court? I can't imagine anybody from the
KDE
non-profit organization taking that issue to court.<
If it came to fistcuffs, trademark law would force
their
hand, lest anyone be able to use it for anything (and Firefox has
already
created the precedent, thus the existence of IceCat, IceWeasel, et
c.)
-- but there are other reasons we probably should have more
distinct
branding. As more people run into KDE 4+, do we really want branding confusable for theirs? So they see our logo and assume we're just like KDE 4
or 5
and use Gnome instead? (That would make Miguel de Icaza's day --
he
vehemently wants everything KDE related (this especially includes us)
to
cease to exist last I heard -- my interest in trying out Mono
evaporated
when I read that article...)
If nothing else, would it not be prudent to have
something
to use should things change and any reasons for not changing it evaporate?
If you are handy with art work (I am not! :)),
how
about working on some login splash screens for Trinity? Or some
wallpaper?<
The hard part I've been having is FINDING the
locations of
the artwork I consider most urgent to update (the KDE dragon artwork
when
one looks at Help->About Trinity in Konqueror, for a glaring example). Failing miserably at this, I've since decided to go with the
other
angle and simply find what I can that needs to be updated.
Most
of what I have so far are screenshots that need replacing.
If you can find the locations of things needing to be replaced (K-gear logos, cute dragon mascots, et c.) PLEASE add them
to:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/14
Many thanks in advance! 8)
Strangelv
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Form before function? Hmm. I better take a nap! :D
Darrell
I had a whole long response written out, but my Email client ate it, so I will summarize below:
a.) The artists can't help with technical aspects of Trinity anyway, so no manpower is being diverted from bugfixing, functionality improvements, etc. b.) A standing pool of new artwork is a GOOD THING and can prevent UI stagnation. c.) We are not obligated to use anything the art team comes up with, but if a majority of devs/users like some of the artwork we can incorporate it easily. d.) We are still under the umbrella of KDE e.V., so we won't get sued for using their trademarks at this point. e.) The "crystal T" logo is not infringing anything, as it is not a direct copy of the "crystal K" logo. If anything the background similarity is merely an homage the Trinity project's origins. f.) Konqy may have to go. Fortunately he only shows up in a few places in kdelibs/kdebase; replacement suggestions are welcome.
Tim
I personally have no opinion either way. I will add in a few comments though:
If it is a legal issue, we should change the artwork and branding. I'm not too familiar with the Creative Commons licenses, but if they prevent us from reusing the artwork and KDE e.V. decides to kick us, we'll need to replace it regardless, so it would be wise to have stuff ready regardless.
When most people think of rebranding, they think of both the names of the apps and the artwork, or at least most of the people I know (myself included). If it is just the artwork, we should say "artwork rebranding" instead of just "rebranding".
For the artwork, I can go around with my camera and take pics of some of the scenary in my area. While I don't particularly like the scenary here, a lot of people do. I personally don't care for a bunch of tall, lighted buildings in a blur of smog, but apparently that is popular (I've heard so many people say, "Ooh, that is so pretty!" when driving into town at night). Buildings aren't the only pics I can get. While it's too late to get a snow covered landscape (spring finally arrived after weeks of unpredictable weather), I can get some spring and summer stuff, and maybe autumn if we're still working on the artwork. I'm no good with photo editing and imposing pics and logos on top of other images, so someone else would have to do it, but I can still send some stuff in.
-
Baho Utot -
calvin morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
David C. Rankin -
jamesg＠dimensionality.com -
Katheryne Draven -
Kristopher Gamrat -
Timothy Pearson