Keith Daniels wrote: Meanwhile the situation has improved. There are many things improved including documentation. What I can recommend is the "systemd cheat sheet" which can be found in different flavors around. Just few examples. https://wiki.debian.org/systemd/CheatSheet https://gist.github.com/mbodo/8f87c96ce11e91f80fbf6175412a2206 My personal experience is ... after looking into it I used systemd free debian for some time until I was ready to move my system to systemd. It took me few hours ... mainly fixing some custom networking logic (scripts that would execute on certain conditions) and migrating few scripts. Since than I can not complain. I moved all systems from init to systemd - no issue. I can just conclude that the main problem is the unwillingness to grow. Of course I can understand this - why fixing something again after some 10-15y when it was working flawlessly ... but guys this is called evolution - for good or for bad. Using the default system brings the advantage that it is easily maintainable - and working on each and every package to work around systemd is IMO less efficient. As for the Felix's problem I think it is related to default manager. Did you try to remove or fix the service? # ls -al /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 31 Jan 6 02:43 /etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service -> /lib/systemd/system/tdm.service # cat /lib/systemd/system/tdm.service [Unit] Description=Trinity Display Manager Documentation=man:tdm-trinity(1) Conflicts=getty(a)tty7.service plymouth-quit.service After=systemd-user-sessions.service getty(a)tty7.service plymouth-quit.service [Service] # temporary safety check until all DMs are converted to correct # display-manager.service symlink handling ExecStartPre=/bin/sh -c '[ "$(basename $(cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager 2>/dev/null))" = "tdm" ]' ExecStart=/opt/trinity/bin/tdm Restart=always regards

On 05/04/2017 07:03 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: Has TDE been patched to provide 'multi-seat' under systemd? That, and the removal of console-kit by Arch, sent us down a strange path in a pure systemd environment several years ago with session/process tracking issues. (see old Bugs 1902 and 1656). Things have completely changed since I was building TDE for Arch. Hopefully I'll find time in the future to crank the build system up and find out where we are in the near future. (can't wait, with Linux 4.10.13, gcc 6.3, and glibc 2.25, ... that should be fun...) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 9:10 AM, deloptes <deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote: yeah. i'm glad - relieved - to know that i'm not the only one that's noticed. i just watched captain america, civil war (again) and sharon quotes her aunt as saying that you have to have the courage to stand and say "no, you move". yeah, exactly. a couple of observations: i began working with software libre - particularly on samba - because the polarisation of 2+ decades of windows (SMB, NT Domains) was causing businesses to get completely trapped and to have to take DRASTIC decisions to entirely abandon either UNIX or NT, or to simply remain unable to convert and to have to deal with the consequences. .... now fast-forward to this decade... take out "Microsoft" and replace it with "Pottering working for Redhat"... replace "Samba" with "sysvinit" (or any other init system), replace "NT" with "systemd"... ... you get where i'm going with that? because apart from the names, the scenario is exactly the same: just as you describe, certain people have placed themselves into a position of power which they are then blatantly abusing. second: i don't know about you but anyone who's had death threats made against them, i simply do not want that person's software on any machines that are my responsibility, and that's really the end of the matter. pottering is a type of individual whose general attitude inspires otherwise reasonable and rational people to go absolutely fucking nuts: that's a good enough indication that there's something desperately, desperately wrong with *his* mind-set... and that ends up percolating down to the code that he writes. it's a real simple decision: his code is OUT. the third observation: software libre is actually about ethical behaviour *AND* software. it's an extremely rare combination which leaves the total number of people who actually really truly understand the "whole point", worldwide, as being really very small. systemd's across the board ram-it-down-people's-throats adoption has completely violated the implicit trust placed by end-users in the developers of software libre... in *DIRECT* violation of the underlying ethical principles on which software libre is founded. not even dr stallman fully comprehends this... because.. well... systemd has a GNU GPL license on it, right? so he's *not even in a position to criticise it*. basically software libre is at a really interesting cross-roads which really has absolutely nothing to do with proprietary software at all. the more people that are aware of this, recognise it, and decide "no, the line is drawn. we will not bow to being rail-roaded" the better society will be for it. dr stallman's recent interview with lunduke has a really appropriate turn of phrase that he used to describe tim berners lee. the exact same words are appropriate here. l.