There are two points worth noting. We should avoid depicting a public image that we are a large group of people. Yes, we have "international" participation but that is all. Believe in what we we do, but be humble about our size. We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. This is the second time we've seen this statement that we make this claim. Does anybody know where we provide that image? Web site? Wiki? Source code? The "tq" conversion did raise hell for us for a few months and we paid dearly for that, even losing some good developers. As I wrote previously, we should be ready to admit that period was a rough time. We have fixed most of those bugs --- but not all, as they still appear. Yesterday I posted a patch for libtqt-perl because the package was not building correctly due to inadvertent "tq" changes. No software project escapes occasional SNAFUs, regardless of how skilled the participants might be. Therefore we should be humble about that episode in project history and move onward. All we can do is release stable products and believe in ourselves. Mind our own business and be content with what we are doing. Our concern is not what others are doing or saying. I believe 3.5.13.1 is a good release that yes, fixed many of the "tq" bugs. I believe R14 will be better. In the end, with each temper tantrum he posts, all Martin does is tarnish his own reputation, not Trinity. I recommend (highly) that we do not participate in such debates. Just keep our heads pointed toward the row we are furrowing. Darrell