Hi everyone,
Earlier this week, Michele Calgaro talked about having a new default wallpaper for R14 release. I am not always a fan of ''default background'', but I can take a look at it. My preference is for outdoor nature picture, which is, in my opinion, enjoyable to use when one have to work in a office (or plant) without windows to see outdoor, especially with today's huge screens.
I provided here two examples of what could be base pictures for a default background: -The one with a tree and a plane has a lot of blue and fits really well with TDE -The Lineart-logo picture used in the new TDEUI. I find it to be very dark when used in a large area.
I'd like to see if some persons here has some ideas for it. kde-look.org is a good place for ideas.
The requirements would probably be: -Having both a widescreen (16:10) and a regular (4:3) version -High-resolution, to look good on the newer hi-res screens. -Maybe a TDE logo somewhere on the picture. -Maybe a TDE mascot somewhere?
I want your ideas, tell me what you think! Thank you! -Alexandre
I provided here two examples of what could be base pictures for a default background:
Alex, would you be interested in providing a series of images as possible backgrounds? We can choose one to be the default and can add the others to the list of available ones. Images of natures or outdoors or whatever else are welcome.
IMO a lot of the backgrounds currently available are from a "prehistoric age" and we should consider updating the list removing some old "pale ones" and add some modern ones.
Cheers Michele
On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:27:56 +0100 Michele Calgaro michele.calgaro@yahoo.it wrote:
I provided here two examples of what could be base pictures for a default background:
Alex, would you be interested in providing a series of images as possible backgrounds? We can choose one to be the default and can add the others to the list of available ones. Images of natures or outdoors or whatever else are welcome.
IMO a lot of the backgrounds currently available are from a "prehistoric age" and we should consider updating the list removing some old "pale ones" and add some modern ones.
We should keep the overall number of wallpapers in tde-base the same, IMNSHO, but replace some of the existing static images with something more widescreen-friendly. The condemned images can be moved to tde-artwork as an alternative to deletion.
Also, can anyone confirm whether or not the "Get New Wallpapers" button in the Control Center works in the latest build (that is, whether it actually produces a list of new wallpapers rather than a blank page)? If not, we need to figure out how to fix it (and its cousins for icons, etc.). kde-look.org *claims* to still be serving "Get Hot New Stuff" feeds, which I think is the mechanism being used.
E. Liddell
The condemned images can be moved to tde-artwork as an alternative to deletion.
Good idea, in case someone still wants to have access to them.
Also, can anyone confirm whether or not the "Get New Wallpapers" button in the Control Center works in the latest build (that is, whether it actually produces a list of new wallpapers rather than a blank page)? If not, we need to figure out how to fix it (and its cousins for icons, etc.). kde-look.org *claims* to still be serving "Get Hot New Stuff" feeds, which I think is the mechanism being used.
Nope, just an empty page at least using pre-v14.0.0. This may be related to the rebranding of several components. Would be interesting if someone could try out using 3.5.13.2 or earlier versions. In any case we need to open a new bug report. In case the problem is a regression introduced in v14.0.0, we will have to fix it before releasing v14. Otherwise we can wait until v14.0.0 is out.
Cheers Michele
The condemned images can be moved to tde-artwork as an alternative to deletion.
Good idea, in case someone still wants to have access to them.
Pay attention! You will face a huge wall of conservatism if you delete something old and ugly in this project :) Some things here are untouchables :)
Also, can anyone confirm whether or not the "Get New Wallpapers" button in the Control Center works in the latest build (that is, whether it actually produces a list of new wallpapers rather than a blank page)? If not, we need to figure out how to fix it (and its cousins for icons, etc.). kde-look.org *claims* to still be serving "Get Hot New Stuff" feeds, which I think is the mechanism being used.
Nope, just an empty page at least using pre-v14.0.0. This may be related to the rebranding of several components. Would be interesting if someone could try out using 3.5.13.2 or earlier versions. In any case we need to open a new bug report. In case the problem is a regression introduced in v14.0.0, we will have to fix it before releasing v14. Otherwise we can wait until v14.0.0 is out.
Cheers Michele
Yes, I'll look at making available a selection of pictures. So, no new default-background anymore?
In my opinion, the ''Get Hot New Stuff'' button is crap and never worked well. It only works with files directly hosted on kde-look.org. When files are hosted outside this site, the file that is downloaded is a blank html file... This makes no sense. In my opinion, it would be better to transform this button in a link to open kde-look.org in a web browser. Then, the user can do what he/she wants.
-Alexandre
On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 13:00:08 -0400 Alexandre ac586133@hotmail.com wrote:
The condemned images can be moved to tde-artwork as an alternative to deletion.
Good idea, in case someone still wants to have access to them.
Pay attention! You will face a huge wall of conservatism if you delete something old and ugly in this project :) Some things here are untouchables :)
We're trying to preserve a software package from several years ago, which means the whole project is somewhat conservative by definition. ;)
Yes, I'll look at making available a selection of pictures. So, no new default-background anymore?
Actually, I'm good with the lineart background, either as it stands or with a superimposed logo/text, as the new default. Then again, I like dark. Or we could adapt it to something more like the old blue-bend wallpaper.
Also, can anyone confirm whether or not the "Get New Wallpapers" button in the Control Center works in the latest build (that is, whether it actually produces a list of new wallpapers rather than a blank page)? If not, we need to figure out how to fix it (and its cousins for icons, etc.). kde-look.org *claims* to still be serving "Get Hot New Stuff" feeds, which I think is the mechanism being used.
Nope, just an empty page at least using pre-v14.0.0. This may be related to the rebranding of several components. Would be interesting if someone could try out using 3.5.13.2 or earlier versions. In any case we need to open a new bug report. In case the problem is a regression introduced in v14.0.0, we will have to fix it before releasing v14. Otherwise we can wait until v14.0.0 is out.
In my opinion, the ''Get Hot New Stuff'' button is crap and never worked well. It only works with files directly hosted on kde-look.org. When files are hosted outside this site, the file that is downloaded is a blank html file... This makes no sense. In my opinion, it would be better to transform this button in a link to open kde-look.org in a web browser. Then, the user can do what he/she wants.
It isn't a regression in Trinity--it no longer works in KDE3 either (I was asking mainly in case someone had fixed it and I wasn't aware). The feed mechanism at kde-look seems to be partially intact (the XML files are there, but I don't think they're being updated anymore), so we should be getting something. I am mystified.
Unfortunately, there's only a limited amount of information on how this was supposed to work at all--I was able to retrieve one tutorial for third-party devs when I was assembling stuff for the new wiki, and there's a server-side implementation still available from http://www.kstuff.org/projects/hotstuff , but the freedesktop.org page for the spec itself is badly broken and I'm not up for wrestling the Wayback Machine today.
It looks like the only "Get New . . ." button inside the Control Center is the one for wallpaper (I thought there was one for icon themes, but evidently not), so just having it pop up kde-look (or a curated list of wallpaper websites) in a browser window may in fact be the easiest fix.
The *best* fix, given infinite manpower, would be to set up our own site for Trinity eye candy (this would allow us to include widget sets, window decorations, tdm splash themes, etc.) and direct the thing there, but I don't think that's happening any time soon.
E. Liddell
Am Sonntag, 17. August 2014 schrieb Michele Calgaro:
The condemned images can be moved to tde-artwork as an alternative to deletion.
Good idea, in case someone still wants to have access to them.
Also, can anyone confirm whether or not the "Get New Wallpapers" button in the Control Center works in the latest build (that is, whether it actually produces a list of new wallpapers rather than a blank page)? If not, we need to figure out how to fix it (and its cousins for icons, etc.). kde-look.org *claims* to still be serving "Get Hot New Stuff" feeds, which I think is the mechanism being used.
Nope, just an empty page at least using pre-v14.0.0. This may be related to the rebranding of several components. Would be interesting if someone could try out using 3.5.13.2 or earlier versions. In any case we need to open a new bug report. In case the problem is a regression introduced in v14.0.0, we will have to fix it before releasing v14. Otherwise we can wait until v14.0.0 is out.
Cheers Michele
"Get New Wallpapers" works on 3.5.13.2
nik
"Get New Wallpapers" works on 3.5.13.2
Hi nik, could you post a screenshot of what the "Get New Wallpapers" window looks like on 3.5.13.2? That would be helpful for when we will work on fixing the problem, at least we can get an idea of what the result has to be.
Thanks Michele
Am Montag, 18. August 2014 schrieb Michele Calgaro:
"Get New Wallpapers" works on 3.5.13.2
Hi nik, could you post a screenshot of what the "Get New Wallpapers" window looks like on 3.5.13.2? That would be helpful for when we will work on fixing the problem, at least we can get an idea of what the result has to be.
Thanks Michele
here you are :-)
Hi nik, could you post a screenshot of what the "Get New Wallpapers" window looks like on 3.5.13.2? That would be helpful for when we will work >on fixing the problem, at least we can get an idea of what the result has to be.
here you are :-)
Part 1:
Thanks Nik, much appreciated. I have filed bug report 2093 about it and added the bug to the v14.0.0 release list, being a considerable regression from 3.5.13.2. The screenshot has been attached to the bug report.
----------------------- Part 2:
Actually after clicking the button and leaving the empty window open for a while, the wallpaper list gets populated, as in the screenshot posted by Nik. So it looks like we just need to add some kind of message to the window when it first open, advising the user to wait for a few seconds.
Cheers Michele
On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:14:30 +0100 Michele Calgaro michele.calgaro@yahoo.it wrote:
Actually after clicking the button and leaving the empty window open for a while, the wallpaper list gets populated, as in the screenshot posted by Nik. So it looks like we just need to add some kind of message to the window when it first open, advising the user to wait for a few seconds.
Confirmed. The feed is still not-quite-working (no new additions since Nov. of last year, even though there are newer wallpapers on the site), but that isn't due to anything we've done.
We definitely need that message--something on the order of "Fetching list..." or "One moment please..."
E. Liddell
Actually after clicking the button and leaving the empty window open for a while, the wallpaper list gets populated, as in the screenshot posted by Nik. So it looks like we just need to add some kind of message to the window when it first open, advising the user to wait for a few seconds.
Confirmed. The feed is still not-quite-working (no new additions since Nov. of last year, even though there are newer wallpapers on the site), but that isn't due to anything we've done.
We definitely need that message--something on the order of "Fetching list..." or "One moment please..."
Actually it takes a 2-3 seconds on 3.5.13.2, too.
BTW: is there a way to show all available wallpapers?
Nik
We definitely need that message--something on the order of "Fetching list..." or "One moment please..."
That's more or less what I had in mind :-)
The feed is still not-quite-working (no new additions since Nov. of last year, even though there are newer wallpapers on the site)
I noticed that as well. It is possible that a new list (with a different name) is now used. If that is the case and it does not require major changes, we should look at adding the new list as well when fixing bug 2093.
BTW: is there a way to show all available wallpapers?
I guess that that may require some additional software. I haven't look at what the code does, but it seems that at the beginning 3 lists are downloaded (3 file transferring windows pop up on my screen) and those are probably used to populate the 3 tabs. Provided that kde-look.org makes the list available (and I guess it does), we could write some code to let the user download the list of all wallpapers. The download could actually require sometime, so we should make it optional (perhaps an additinal button somewhere). Please go ahead and file an enhancement bug report for this. In any case we will look at it after v14.0.0 is out.
Cheers Michele
On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:26:10 +0100 Michele Calgaro michele.calgaro@yahoo.it wrote:
The feed is still not-quite-working (no new additions since Nov. of last year, even though there are newer wallpapers on the site)
I noticed that as well. It is possible that a new list (with a different name) is now used. If that is the case and it does not require major changes, we should look at adding the new list as well when fixing bug 2093.
Unfortunately, I believe the new feed is in a different format, per http://kde-look.org/help/api.php I get the impression from that page that the old one is still supposed to be maintained, though, so we could try contacting them to ask what's going on.
BTW: is there a way to show all available wallpapers?
I guess that that may require some additional software. I haven't look at what the code does, but it seems that at the beginning 3 lists are downloaded (3 file transferring windows pop up on my screen) and those are probably used to populate the 3 tabs. Provided that kde-look.org makes the list available (and I guess it does), we could write some code to let the user download the list of all wallpapers. The download could actually require sometime, so we should make it optional (perhaps an additinal button somewhere).
I believe the lists used are: http://download.kde.org/khotnewstuff/wallpaper/wallpaper.xml http://download.kde.org/khotnewstuff/wallpaper/wallpaper-score.xml http://download.kde.org/khotnewstuff/wallpaper/wallpaper-downloads.xml
They each seem to contain 10-20 wallpapers' worth of details, no more. That being said, they're XML feeds, and we could create an additional one of our own by scraping their pages and RSS, then add it as a new selection in the leftmost box in the screenshot. The scraping part is finicky but not difficult, provided they don't change the RSS entry format.
E. Liddell
They each seem to contain 10-20 wallpapers' worth of details, no more. That being said, they're XML feeds, and we could create an additional one of our own by scraping their pages and RSS, then add it as a new selection in the leftmost box in the screenshot. The scraping part is finicky but not difficult, provided they don't change the RSS entry format.
E. Liddell
Hi,
I still got the same opinion on this one that it the button should be replaced by a link to kde-look.org. Even if it seems to work at first sight, if the file is not hosted directly on kde-look.org, it doesn't work. Also, it would never require maintenance in the future.
I provided here a collection of 12 nature backgrounds, all coming from kde-look.org and they all have an open source license. They were also on my PCLinuxOS non-official TDE remaster. These are more adapted to today's wide screens than the old ones provided with TDE. If someone is interested in it, they could be added to tde artwork package. Please note that I have resized these file to send it more easily.
Tell me what you think! Thanks! -Alexandre
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA224
They each seem to contain 10-20 wallpapers' worth of details, no more. That being said, they're XML feeds, and we could create an additional one of our own by scraping their pages and RSS, then add it as a new selection in the leftmost box in the screenshot. The scraping part is finicky but not difficult, provided they don't change the RSS entry format.
E. Liddell
Hi,
I still got the same opinion on this one that it the button should be replaced by a link to kde-look.org. Even if it seems to work at first sight, if the file is not hosted directly on kde-look.org, it doesn't work. Also, it would never require maintenance in the future.
I provided here a collection of 12 nature backgrounds, all coming from kde-look.org and they all have an open source license. They were also on my PCLinuxOS non-official TDE remaster. These are more adapted to today's wide screens than the old ones provided with TDE. If someone is interested in it, they could be added to tde artwork package. Please note that I have resized these file to send it more easily.
Tell me what you think! Thanks! -Alexandre
Regarding the kde-look problem, just like DRM makes it harder to access the desired content so does hiding the desired image file behind 10 pages of advertisements and unrelated content. Perhaps the best solution is to make it easy (automatic) for those authors who provide a direct link and/or host the image file on kde-look, and if the utility detects an HTML page or other non-image and non-compressed file then it asks the user if he/she would like to open a browser session? Personally I'd make the dialog a bit scary as we really have no idea what content is on the remote site; at minimum it should ask if the user would like to browse to the given URL (and show it).
Tim
Personally I'd make the dialog a bit scary as we really have no idea what content is on the remote site; at minimum it should ask if the user would like to browse to the given URL (and show it).
I fully agree. You never know the risk of "outside" websites. Cheers Michele
I provided here a collection of 12 nature backgrounds, all coming from kde-look.org and they all have an open source license. They were also on my PCLinuxOS non-official TDE remaster.
Looks good. If you can provide a bigger version, I will look at adding them to list of available backgrounds. Please add them to a bug report, makes sure we don't forget about them.
Cheers Michele
On the subject of new backgrounds, I have gone through the list of backgrounds installed by default (on my system at least) and identify those that I think we should replace with new ones (already provided by Alex). The list is as follow:
1) To be removed/replaced: Appropriately Left Handed Blue-green crissocross Gold crickle Green curtain Kubical (because it shows 'KDE') Stripes Superfluous organ The good times Totally new product Triple gears Vegetative fog Water Won Ton soup
2) Other candidates for removal/replacement All good people Blue angle swirl Chicken song Geared globe Mystical right turn Time for lunch
The old backgrounds that will be removed/replaced will not be completely deleted. Instead they will be moved to tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete and installed into /opt/trinity/share/wallpapers/obsolete, so that a user can still access them if required. A note will be added to the v14.0.0 release notes.
Please review the list above and let me know if some changes are necessary (i.e. you want to add/remove wallpapers to the list).
Cheers Michele
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:20:28 +0100 Michele Calgaro michele.calgaro@yahoo.it wrote:
On the subject of new backgrounds, I have gone through the list of backgrounds installed by default (on my system at least) and identify those that I think we should replace with new ones (already provided by Alex). The list is as follow:
- To be removed/replaced:
Appropriately Left Handed Blue-green crissocross Gold crickle Green curtain Kubical (because it shows 'KDE') Stripes Superfluous organ The good times Totally new product Triple gears Vegetative fog Water Won Ton soup
- Other candidates for removal/replacement
All good people Blue angle swirl Chicken song Geared globe Mystical right turn Time for lunch
The old backgrounds that will be removed/replaced will not be completely deleted. Instead they will be moved to tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete and installed into /opt/trinity/share/wallpapers/obsolete, so that a user can still access them if required. A note will be added to the v14.0.0 release notes.
Please review the list above and let me know if some changes are necessary (i.e. you want to add/remove wallpapers to the list).
Nearly all of the files on your list are the tiling wallpapers. They aren't very large. The end result is that we'll be increasing the size of the tdebase package substatially by replacing them with a dozen hi-res backgrounds. And I think some of the files on your list aren't in the current tdebase package (going by https://git.trinitydesktop.org/cgit/tdebase/tree/pics/wallpapers )
kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace konqui -> replace (shows old KDE mascot) stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Appropriately Left Handed, Blue-green criss-cross, Gold crinkle, Green curtain, Superfluous organ, The good times, Vegetative fog, and Water aren't in the tdebase package as far as I can tell. The only tiling background in the 'base package that I'd drop is Chicken Songs. The other five are a well-selected assortment (mix of darkish/light, contrasty/subtle, and various colours).
There's nothing that says we have to put all the new wallpapers in 'base, either. The purpose of including wallpapers in that package at all is to allow the user to find something to look at that won't make their eyes bleed while they go searching for the perfect custom background. It doesn't have to be a comprehensive assortment.
E. Liddell
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:20:28 +0100 Michele Calgaro michele.calgaro@yahoo.it wrote:
On the subject of new backgrounds, I have gone through the list of backgrounds installed by default (on my system at least) and identify those that I think we should replace with new ones (already provided by Alex). The list is as follow:
- To be removed/replaced:
Appropriately Left Handed Blue-green crissocross Gold crickle Green curtain Kubical (because it shows 'KDE') Stripes Superfluous organ The good times Totally new product Triple gears Vegetative fog Water Won Ton soup
- Other candidates for removal/replacement
All good people Blue angle swirl Chicken song Geared globe Mystical right turn Time for lunch
The old backgrounds that will be removed/replaced will not be completely deleted. Instead they will be moved to tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete and installed into /opt/trinity/share/wallpapers/obsolete, so that a user can still access them if required. A note will be added to the v14.0.0 release notes.
Please review the list above and let me know if some changes are necessary (i.e. you want to add/remove wallpapers to the list).
Nearly all of the files on your list are the tiling wallpapers. They aren't very large. The end result is that we'll be increasing the size of the tdebase package substatially by replacing them with a dozen hi-res backgrounds. And I think some of the files on your list aren't in the current tdebase package (going by https://git.trinitydesktop.org/cgit/tdebase/tree/pics/wallpapers )
kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace konqui -> replace (shows old KDE mascot) stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Appropriately Left Handed, Blue-green criss-cross, Gold crinkle, Green curtain, Superfluous organ, The good times, Vegetative fog, and Water aren't in the tdebase package as far as I can tell. The only tiling background in the 'base package that I'd drop is Chicken Songs. The other five are a well-selected assortment (mix of darkish/light, contrasty/subtle, and various colours).
There's nothing that says we have to put all the new wallpapers in 'base, either. The purpose of including wallpapers in that package at all is to allow the user to find something to look at that won't make their eyes bleed while they go searching for the perfect custom background. It doesn't have to be a comprehensive assortment.
E. Liddell
Hi,
Hey, you wont remove Konqui? :) It was almost the only one worth keeping! I personally don't think that tiling wallpapers are used that much anymore. These were almost from the Win 3.1 era, when the available amount of free RAM was so scarce that it was unthinkable to use a full picture, but if they use very little disk space, they can be kept. But I won't use these.
I evaluate at approximately 12mb the required disk space for the wallpapers that I uploaded in bug 2094. In 2014, 12mb is still acceptable and hi-res backgrounds are almost required for today's hi-res screen, and we're not even talking about HiDPI, IPS or retina screens yet...
It would be nice in the future to evaluate the option of having picture previews instead of choosing in a list. Even Gnome 2 has that and it is easier to find pictures with a preview than with the file name.
-Alexandre
Nearly all of the files on your list are the tiling wallpapers. They aren't very large. The end result is that we'll be increasing the size of the tdebase package substatially by replacing them with a dozen hi-res backgrounds. And I think some of the files on your list aren't in the current tdebase package (going by https://git.trinitydesktop.org/cgit/tdebase/tree/pics/wallpapers )
kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace konqui -> replace (shows old KDE mascot) stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Appropriately Left Handed, Blue-green criss-cross, Gold crinkle, Green curtain, Superfluous organ, The good times, Vegetative fog, and Water aren't in the tdebase package as far as I can tell. The only tiling background in the 'base package that I'd drop is Chicken Songs. The other five are a well-selected assortment (mix of darkish/light, contrasty/subtle, and various colours).
There's nothing that says we have to put all the new wallpapers in 'base, either. The purpose of including wallpapers in that package at all is to allow the user to find something to look at that won't make their eyes bleed while they go searching for the perfect custom background. It doesn't have to be a comprehensive assortment. E.
Hey, you wont remove Konqui? :) It was almost the only one worth keeping! I personally don't think that tiling wallpapers are used that much anymore. These were almost from the Win 3.1 era, when the available amount of free RAM was so scarce that it was unthinkable to use a full picture, but if they use very little disk space, they can be kept. But I won't use these.I evaluate at approximately 12mb the required disk space for the wallpapers that I uploaded in bug 2094. In 2014, 12mb is still acceptable and hi-res backgrounds are almost required for today's hi-res screen, and we're not even talking about HiDPI, IPS or retina screens yet... It would be nice in the future to evaluate the option of having picture previews instead of choosing in a list. Even Gnome 2 has that and it is easier to find pictures with a preview than with the file name. Alex
E., Alex, thanks for the feedback.
1) konqui wallpaper actually shows "Trinity". E., you may still have the old version on your system. The other ones you didn't find in tdebase are located in tdeartwork/wallpapers
2) disk space: even though 12 MB are not little, I don't think it is such a big space requirement these days. Moreover I am planning to split the new wallpapers between tdebase and tdeartwork (see below)
3) image preview: in the background selection dialog, we already have a preview coming up on the right. Alex, can you explain in more detail what you mean by "preview"?
4) Replacement plan proposal. I am thinking about something like this: 1) move the old screensavers (either from tdebase or tdeartwork) to tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete 2) replace the default TDE wallpaper with the new lineart proposed by Alex (see bug 2094 attachment 2130). Perhaps Alex we could add a Trinity logo somewhere. 3) add 3 or 4 of Alex's wallpapers to tdebase and the rest to tdeartwork
What do you think?
Cheers Michele
E., Alex, thanks for the feedback.
- konqui wallpaper actually shows "Trinity". E., you may still have the old version on your system. The other ones you didn't find in tdebase are located in tdeartwork/wallpapers
Yes, if your are running 3.5.13.2, you probably have the old one.
disk space: even though 12 MB are not little, I don't think it is such a big space requirement these days. Moreover I am planning to split the new wallpapers between tdebase and tdeartwork (see below)
image preview: in the background selection dialog, we already have a preview coming up on the right. Alex, can you explain in more detail what you mean by "preview"?
The actual preview is one at a time. I was talking about making a window similar to the provided screenshot. It makes it much easier to choose a picture than with the file name. But in the future, not for R14.
- Replacement plan proposal. I am thinking about something like this:
- move the old screensavers (either from tdebase or tdeartwork) to tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete
screensavers :)
- replace the default TDE wallpaper with the new lineart proposed by Alex (see bug 2094 attachment 2130). Perhaps Alex we could add a Trinity logo somewhere.
Okay, I'll look at it. I'll make 2 version: One widescreen and one for 4:3 screens. An advantage of having nothing on it is that it can be stretched to any resolution without having an out-of-shape logo on it. I'll try to keep them as SVG files.
- add 3 or 4 of Alex's wallpapers to tdebase and the rest to tdeartwork
It makes sense. No problem with that.
What do you think?
Cheers Michele
-Alexandre
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 02:39:21 +0100 Michele Calgaro michele.calgaro@yahoo.it wrote:
Nearly all of the files on your list are the tiling wallpapers. They aren't very large. The end result is that we'll be increasing the size of the tdebase package substatially by replacing them with a dozen hi-res backgrounds. And I think some of the files on your list aren't in the current tdebase package (going by https://git.trinitydesktop.org/cgit/tdebase/tree/pics/wallpapers )
kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace konqui -> replace (shows old KDE mascot) stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Appropriately Left Handed, Blue-green criss-cross, Gold crinkle, Green curtain, Superfluous organ, The good times, Vegetative fog, and Water aren't in the tdebase package as far as I can tell. The only tiling background in the 'base package that I'd drop is Chicken Songs. The other five are a well-selected assortment (mix of darkish/light, contrasty/subtle, and various colours).
There's nothing that says we have to put all the new wallpapers in 'base, either. The purpose of including wallpapers in that package at all is to allow the user to find something to look at that won't make their eyes bleed while they go searching for the perfect custom background. It doesn't have to be a comprehensive assortment. E.
Hey, you wont remove Konqui? :) It was almost the only one worth keeping! I personally don't think that tiling wallpapers are used that much anymore. These were almost from the Win 3.1 era, when the available amount of free RAM was so scarce that it was unthinkable to use a full picture, but if they use very little disk space, they can be kept. But I won't use these.
I'm advocating keeping some mostly because there are four possible aspect ratios for computer screens at the moment, depending on the age of the hardware (and Trinity is going to be used on some older hardware)--providing a few neutral tiling backgrounds is easier than covering off all possibilities. Plus, there may actually be people out there who *like* them, weird as it sounds.
The selection of five (the ones in tdebase minus Chicken Songs) is probably sufficient overall, though--we don't have to keep the ones in tdeartwork too.
I evaluate at approximately 12mb the required disk space for the wallpapers that I uploaded in bug 2094. In 2014, 12mb is still acceptable and hi-res backgrounds are almost required for today's hi-res screen, and we're not even talking about HiDPI, IPS or retina screens yet... It would be nice in the future to evaluate the option of having picture previews instead of choosing in a list. Even Gnome 2 has that and it is easier to find pictures with a preview than with the file name. Alex
E., Alex, thanks for the feedback.
- konqui wallpaper actually shows "Trinity". E., you may still have the old version on your system. The other ones you didn't find in tdebase are located in tdeartwork/wallpapers
The *text* on the konqui wallpaper says "Trinity", yes (I was the one who redid it). My concern is that Konqui himself--the little dragon critter--is *KDE*'s mascot. I'm surprised they don't have him trademarked (or do they? There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, none of it official) In other words, it's a subtle branding issue that we've been ignoring.
- disk space: even though 12 MB are not little, I don't think it is such a big space requirement these days. Moreover I am planning to split the new wallpapers between tdebase and tdeartwork (see below)
I admit, that was kind of a devil's-advocate thing. But there are still people out there in the world whose only option for Internet access is a phone-line modem and might prefer that we not bloat things up too much. That's a very niche concern, though.
- image preview: in the background selection dialog, we already have a preview coming up on the right. Alex, can you explain in more detail what you mean by "preview"?
Sort of like a tiles view of the entire directory, maybe, instead of only previewing one at a time?
- Replacement plan proposal. I am thinking about something like this:
- move the old screensavers (either from tdebase or tdeartwork) to tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete
- replace the default TDE wallpaper with the new lineart proposed by Alex (see bug 2094 attachment 2130). Perhaps Alex we could add a Trinity logo somewhere.
- add 3 or 4 of Alex's wallpapers to tdebase and the rest to tdeartwork
What do you think?
Seems fairly reasonable.
E. Liddell
I'm advocating keeping some mostly because there are four possible aspect ratios for computer screens at the moment, depending on the age of the hardware (and Trinity is going to be used on some older hardware)--providing a few neutral tiling backgrounds is easier than covering off all possibilities. Plus, there may actually be people out there who *like* them, weird as it sounds. The selection of five (the ones in tdebase minus Chicken Songs) is probably sufficient overall, though--we don't have to keep the ones in tdeartwork too.
Ok, good point. Let's keep some tile background available. I will stick to your list for those.
The *text* on the konqui wallpaper says "Trinity", yes (I was the one who redid it). My concern is that Konqui himself--the little dragon critter--is *KDE*'s mascot. I'm surprised they don't have him trademarked (or do they? There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, none of it official) In other words, it's a subtle branding issue that we've been ignoring.
Being KDE available under GNU I think trademark is not a problem. Nevertheless indirectly you raised another good point. Since we are rebranding and restyling, it would make sense to also have a new mascot for TDE, instead of KDE's dragon. Would you and Alex be available to work something out in the spare time?
(E.) Sort of like a tiles view of the entire directory, maybe, instead of only previewing one at a time? (Alex) The actual preview is one at a time. I was talking about making a window similar to the provided screenshot. It makes it > much easier to choose a picture than with the file name. But in the future, not for R14.
Good suggestion and yes, definitely for after v14.0.0. I will open a bug report so we won't forget about it.
Cheers Michele
The *text* on the konqui wallpaper says "Trinity", yes (I was the one who redid it). My concern is that Konqui himself--the little dragon critter--is *KDE*'s mascot. I'm surprised they don't have him trademarked (or do they? There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, none of it official) In other words, it's a subtle branding issue that we've been ignoring.
Being KDE available under GNU I think trademark is not a problem. Nevertheless indirectly you raised another good point. Since we are rebranding and restyling, it would make sense to also have a new mascot for TDE, instead of KDE's dragon. Would you and Alex be available to work something out in the spare time?
On this one, I think that we should keep the dragon, especially since it is (almost) not used anymore in KDE. Interesting file sources for the dragon can be found here: www.kde.org/stuff/clipart.php
(E.) Sort of like a tiles view of the entire directory, maybe, instead of only previewing one at a time? (Alex) The actual preview is one at a time. I was talking about making a window similar to the provided screenshot. It makes it > much easier to choose a picture than with the file name. But in the future, not for R14.
Good suggestion and yes, definitely for after v14.0.0. I will open a bug report so we won't forget about it.
Cheers Michele
I added to bug 2094 a modified version of the SVG lineart background with a TDE logo on it. The TDE logo has been copied from the moon svg background. It quite does the job, but I would need an SVG expert to look at adapting it for other screen ratios. I know Gimp pretty well, but I don't know much about Inkscape and SVG files.
-Alexandre
kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Update on the topic. I have removed the wallpapers mentioned above from the list displayed in the "Background" configuration page. The wallpapers have been moved to the tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete folder and are still installed, but now they go into the /opt/trinity/share/wallpapers/obsolete folder. If desired, they can still be manually selected by browsing to that folder. I have kept Konqui for the time being. I still think we should consider changing the default TDE mascot, if anyone has good ideas please let us know. I have added the new backgrounds proposed by Alex (3 in tdebase and 6 in tdeartwork to avoid increasing the size of tdebase too much). Thanks Alex, good work! I haven't changed the default background yet, will do soon though.
Cheers Michele
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:12:49 +0100 From: michele.calgaro@yahoo.it To: trinity-devel@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Re: Opinion on new background wallpaper for R14
kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Update on the topic. I have removed the wallpapers mentioned above from the list displayed in the "Background" configuration page. The wallpapers have been moved to the tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete folder and are still installed, but now they go into the /opt/trinity/share/wallpapers/obsolete folder. If desired, they can still be manually selected by browsing to that folder. I have kept Konqui for the time being. I still think we should consider changing the default TDE mascot, if anyone has good ideas please let us know. I have added the new backgrounds proposed by Alex (3 in tdebase and 6 in tdeartwork to avoid increasing the size of tdebase too much). Thanks Alex, good work! I haven't changed the default background yet, will do soon though.
Cheers Michele
Great! -Alexandre
kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Update on the topic. I have removed the wallpapers mentioned above from the list displayed in the "Background" configuration page. The wallpapers have been moved to the tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete folder and are still installed, but now they go into the /opt/trinity/share/wallpapers/obsolete folder. If desired, they can still be manually selected by browsing to that folder. I have kept Konqui for the time being. I still think we should consider changing the default TDE mascot, if anyone has good ideas please let us know. I have added the new backgrounds proposed by Alex (3 in tdebase and 6 in tdeartwork to avoid increasing the size of tdebase too much). Thanks Alex, good work! I haven't changed the default background yet, will do soon though.
New default background added (thanks Alex!), as well as a note in the release notes that explains about the removed wallpapers. Cheers Michele
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kubical -> replace triplegears -> replace stripes -> replace mystical right turn -> replace globe -> replace default gears -> replace chicken songs -> replace
Update on the topic. I have removed the wallpapers mentioned above from the list displayed in the "Background" configuration page. The wallpapers have been moved to the tdeartwork/wallpapers/obsolete folder and are still installed, but now they go into the /opt/trinity/share/wallpapers/obsolete folder. If desired, they can still be manually selected by browsing to that folder. I have kept Konqui for the time being. I still think we should consider changing the default TDE mascot, if anyone has good ideas please let us know. I have added the new backgrounds proposed by Alex (3 in tdebase and 6 in tdeartwork to avoid increasing the size of tdebase too much). Thanks Alex, good work! I haven't changed the default background yet, will do soon though.
New default background added (thanks Alex!), as well as a note in the release notes that explains about the removed wallpapers. Cheers Michele
What was the point of hiding the wallpapers by moving them to the obsolete folder? It seems to me that the artwork package can increase somewhat in size without ill effects as it is optional and storage space has drastically increased over the past decade or more.
I know several of the wallpapers in that folder are "old standbys" to users here; I don't see why we can't ship them normally.
Tim
What was the point of hiding the wallpapers by moving them to the obsolete folder? It seems to me that the artwork package can increase somewhat in size without ill effects as it is optional and storage space has drastically increased over the past decade or more. I know several of the wallpapers in that folder are "old standbys" to users here; I don't see why we can't ship them normally.
My original idea was to remove sevaral more old-style wallpapers and add a few more modern ones. After discussions on this ML (mainly with E. and Alex), we decided to change only a few ones to prevent estranging the final users, at the same time without overpopulating the list of available wallpapers when tdebase and tdeartwork were installed (the list is already too long IMO). Further, we decided to make the removed wallpapers "manually" available in case it was necessary., that's why there is the 'obsolete' folder.
There is no problem in changing things again if required, as long as we all agree on a final version (either use the obsolete folder as it is now or just leave of the wallpapers available).
Cheers Michele
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What was the point of hiding the wallpapers by moving them to the obsolete folder? It seems to me that the artwork package can increase somewhat in size without ill effects as it is optional and storage space has drastically increased over the past decade or more. I know several of the wallpapers in that folder are "old standbys" to users here; I don't see why we can't ship them normally.
My original idea was to remove sevaral more old-style wallpapers and add a few more modern ones. After discussions on this ML (mainly with E. and Alex), we decided to change only a few ones to prevent estranging the final users, at the same time without overpopulating the list of available wallpapers when tdebase and tdeartwork were installed (the list is already too long IMO). Further, we decided to make the removed wallpapers "manually" available in case it was necessary., that's why there is the 'obsolete' folder.
There is no problem in changing things again if required, as long as we all agree on a final version (either use the obsolete folder as it is now or just leave of the wallpapers available).
Cheers Michele
I don't remember the discussion, so I may have just overlooked this part of it. I would like to keep the wallpapers available instead of using the obsolete folder.
A better long-term solution would be to borrow the tree interface idea from the screensaver selection dialog. That way the wallpapers could be generally categorized, e.g. "Legacy", "Modern", "Simple", "Nature", etc.
Tim
I don't remember the discussion, so I may have just overlooked this part of it. I would like to keep the wallpapers available instead of using the obsolete folder. A better long-term solution would be to borrow the tree interface idea from the screensaver selection dialog. That way the wallpapers could be generally categorized, e.g. "Legacy", "Modern", "Simple", "Nature", etc.
I like the idea of using a tree and categorize the wallpapers. I will add an enhancement request for this. As for the wallpapers in the obsolete folder, if noone else has other opinions, I will put them back in their original location sometime this week.
Cheers Michele
I don't remember the discussion, so I may have just overlooked this part of it. I would like to keep the wallpapers available instead of using the obsolete folder.
The removed wallpapers have been reinstated in their original location. I have filed bug report 2118 for the "tree-like categorized" wallpaper idea.
Cheers Michele
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Alexandre -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Michele Calgaro -
Timothy Pearson