On Sun June 24 2018 10:14:39 Slávek Banko wrote:
at mirror.xcer.cz, colleague has not yet made the removal of distributions that are no longer build for Preliminary Stable Builds. Therefore, packages for these distributions are still available on mirror.xcer.cz. While on mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org is cleaning old packages more actively. This is why the content may vary. Both of these mirrors are synchronized from my main server using apt-mirror. Therefore, removing old packages can be done differently on each mirror.
If you want to synchronize Preliminary Stable Builds repository to your mirror, I can setup rsync on mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org. Would it be useful for you?
// Retitled and moved from trinity-users to trinity-devel.
Hi Slavek,
The mirrors are here to serve TDE so the question is what would be useful to TDE devs and users?
Here's a little background FYI.
(1) The primary mirror has roughly 240GB of which 192GB is currently in use. This can be increased but of course none of us want to spend more money on renting data center disk space than necessary. I don't know how much disk space is available for TDE on the secondary mirrors.
27G ./cdimages 1.7G ./git-images 14G ./libreoffice-trinity 38M ./openldap 24G ./releases 62G ./trinity 384M ./trinity-builddeps 1.5G ./trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0 929M ./trinity-builddeps-v3.5.13 1.5G ./trinity-nightly-build-dependencies 412K ./trinity-nightly-builds-01 41G ./trinity-r14.0.0 20G ./trinity-v3.5.13 553M ./ulab
(2) I have not yet exceeded monthly transfer limits and hope not to do so. I can serve normal traffic and new releases but please contact mirror admins before any overall reorganization which could be done more efficiently with mv than rsync.
(3) I am not personally in direct contact with any of the other mirrors, even though they all pull from us. Contact between the mirror admins has AFAIK always been through Tim. We created the primary mirror to alleviate bandwidth problems at Tim's build farm in the past when all mirrors pulled direct from him.
(4) The primary mirror uses rsync rather than apt-mirror, and I suspect the same is true for the other mirrors.
(5) I appreciate heads up on any planned major changes to mirror content so I can increase monitoring and if necessary change mirroring parameters. It might be best to provide such heads up off-list because ...
(6) To avoid overloading build farm bandwidth, it is best not to announce releases until they are fully mirrored. If users start pulling unmirrored files they are served from the build farm, overloading its bandwidth and slowing mirroring, so things get very slow for everyone.
As a TDE user myself I would find it convenient but not critical if there were fewer differences between PSB and Stable. Ideally they would be in the same repo pool - like Debian testing and stable.
--Mike
Hi Mike,
Sorry for a later answer. Answers are inscribed on individual points.
On Sunday 24 of June 2018 20:59:46 Mike Bird wrote:
On Sun June 24 2018 10:14:39 Slávek Banko wrote:
at mirror.xcer.cz, colleague has not yet made the removal of distributions that are no longer build for Preliminary Stable Builds. Therefore, packages for these distributions are still available on mirror.xcer.cz. While on mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org is cleaning old packages more actively. This is why the content may vary. Both of these mirrors are synchronized from my main server using apt-mirror. Therefore, removing old packages can be done differently on each mirror.
If you want to synchronize Preliminary Stable Builds repository to your mirror, I can setup rsync on mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org. Would it be useful for you?
// Retitled and moved from trinity-users to trinity-devel.
Hi Slavek,
The mirrors are here to serve TDE so the question is what would be useful to TDE devs and users?
Here's a little background FYI.
(1) The primary mirror has roughly 240GB of which 192GB is currently in use. This can be increased but of course none of us want to spend more money on renting data center disk space than necessary. I don't know how much disk space is available for TDE on the secondary mirrors.
27G ./cdimages 1.7G ./git-images 14G ./libreoffice-trinity 38M ./openldap 24G ./releases 62G ./trinity 384M ./trinity-builddeps 1.5G ./trinity-builddeps-r14.0.0 929M ./trinity-builddeps-v3.5.13 1.5G ./trinity-nightly-build-dependencies 412K ./trinity-nightly-builds-01 41G ./trinity-r14.0.0 20G ./trinity-v3.5.13 553M ./ulab
The advantage of existing solutions where Preliminary Stable Builds and Preliminary Testing Builds are completely out of official mirrors is that there is no need to address additional space on mirrors. The official mirrors contain the final official packages. Redirector provides access to pre-packages. Everyone can be happy.
(2) I have not yet exceeded monthly transfer limits and hope not to do so. I can serve normal traffic and new releases but please contact mirror admins before any overall reorganization which could be done more efficiently with mv than rsync.
Because Preliminary Stable Builds and Preliminary Testing Builds are completely independent of the official mirrors, this solution provides the advantage that synchronization from my server to the repository is done more often - packages are checked every two hours.
Therefore, packages can be delivered to users faster. At the same time, there is no risk that the transfer limits on mirrors will be exceeded.
(3) I am not personally in direct contact with any of the other mirrors, even though they all pull from us. Contact between the mirror admins has AFAIK always been through Tim. We created the primary mirror to alleviate bandwidth problems at Tim's build farm in the past when all mirrors pulled direct from him.
Yes, this is a well-designed solution. I thank you for your effort on this solution. By creating a separate master redirector, we have further improved our situation.
There is a cache on the redirector, which continuously synchronizes the packages for the new versions before official release. Here are both Debian / Ubuntu packages (synchronized from QuickBuild) and RPM packages (synchronized from François Andriot primary source). At the time of the release of the new TDE version, the redirector can serve packages to users directly from this cache before they are available on any mirror.
(4) The primary mirror uses rsync rather than apt-mirror, and I suspect the same is true for the other mirrors.
Yes, that's perfectly fine. The official primary server contains not only deb packages, so using apt-mirror for mirroring the primary server would make no sense.
If anyone is interested in synchronizing Preliminary Stable Builds or Preliminary Testing Builds, just let me know and I can also make them accessible via rsync. However, as I wrote above - these are repositories that may be updated faster than once a day.
(5) I appreciate heads up on any planned major changes to mirror content so I can increase monitoring and if necessary change mirroring parameters. It might be best to provide such heads up off-list because ...
Changes to the mirror system or content are not currently planned. The current concept seems to work well enough. Let me say that it was well-proven at the time of release R14.0.4.
(6) To avoid overloading build farm bandwidth, it is best not to announce releases until they are fully mirrored. If users start pulling unmirrored files they are served from the build farm, overloading its bandwidth and slowing mirroring, so things get very slow for everyone.
This is no longer necessary. As I mentioned above, the redirector has a cache that is filled with new packages before the official release. Therefore, at the time of release, if packages are not yet available on official mirrors, they may be served directly from this cache. This makes the packages available to users quickly and without overloading the line to the primary server. Already R14.0.4 has successfully used this cache at the time of release.
As a TDE user myself I would find it convenient but not critical if there were fewer differences between PSB and Stable. Ideally they would be in the same repo pool - like Debian testing and stable.
Yes, you are quite right - a lot of time has elapsed since R14.0.4. It would definitely be better if we released the maintenance versions more often. We hope that after releasing R14.0.5 we will again be able to manage more frequent releases.
--Mike
Cheers
Hi Slavek,
Thank you for the comprehensive response. A few points come to mind.
(1) TDE mirrors are not synced "daily".
Due to master server bandwidth limitations, primary sync runs can take anywhere from a minute to a week.
The primary mirror normally syncs from Tim's master server continuously subject to a bandwidth limit selected by Tim and with a short delay between the completion of one sync run and the start of the next. During major release rollouts syncing is changed e.g. by reducing delay between sync runs and by deferring dbg/debuginfo/dev/devel/tar/src files when more urgent files need to be mirrored.
Secondary mirrors sync from the primary on their own schedules. Currently some secondaries sync three times per day and some four.
On Sat July 21 2018 10:20:33 Slávek Banko wrote:
On Sunday 24 of June 2018 20:59:46 Mike Bird wrote:
(6) To avoid overloading build farm bandwidth, it is best not to announce releases until they are fully mirrored. If users start pulling unmirrored files they are served from the build farm, overloading its bandwidth and slowing mirroring, so things get very slow for everyone.
This is no longer necessary. As I mentioned above, the redirector has a cache that is filled with new packages before the official release. Therefore, at the time of release, if packages are not yet available on official mirrors, they may be served directly from this cache. This makes the packages available to users quickly and without overloading the line to the primary server.
(2) This seems counter-productive. The reason for implementing a distinct primary mirror was so that each file would only be transferred once from Tim's master server due to bandwidth limitations.
Already R14.0.4 has successfully used this cache at the time of release.
(3) There were severe slowdowns for several days during R14.0.4 rollout which appeared to be due to master server bandwidth limitations.
--Mike
On Sunday 22 of July 2018 00:12:21 Mike Bird wrote:
Hi Slavek,
Thank you for the comprehensive response. A few points come to mind.
(1) TDE mirrors are not synced "daily".
Due to master server bandwidth limitations, primary sync runs can take anywhere from a minute to a week. The primary mirror normally syncs from Tim's master server continuously subject to a bandwidth limit selected by Tim and with a short delay between the completion of one sync run and the start of the next. During major release rollouts syncing is changed e.g. by reducing delay between sync runs and by deferring dbg/debuginfo/dev/devel/tar/src files when more urgent files need to be mirrored. Secondary mirrors sync from the primary on their own schedules. Currently some secondaries sync three times per day and some four.
Interesting. I supposed that the synchronization is initialized once a day, and then it only depends on whether it has finished or that it will be delayed when previous synchronization is still running.
On Sat July 21 2018 10:20:33 Slávek Banko wrote:
On Sunday 24 of June 2018 20:59:46 Mike Bird wrote:
(6) To avoid overloading build farm bandwidth, it is best not to announce releases until they are fully mirrored. If users start pulling unmirrored files they are served from the build farm, overloading its bandwidth and slowing mirroring, so things get very slow for everyone.
This is no longer necessary. As I mentioned above, the redirector has a cache that is filled with new packages before the official release. Therefore, at the time of release, if packages are not yet available on official mirrors, they may be served directly from this cache. This makes the packages available to users quickly and without overloading the line to the primary server.
(2) This seems counter-productive. The reason for implementing a distinct primary mirror was so that each file would only be transferred once from Tim's master server due to bandwidth limitations.
Do not worry, this caching is not counterproductive, just the opposite. The synchronization of packages into the redirector cache is done before the packages are published to the official repository == before the synchronization to the primary mirror starts. This means that synchronization into redirector cache uses the time when the bandwidth on the primary server is not used. This is the main trick of this caching - that's why this caching is very beneficial.
Separate substantial benefit is caching of RPM packages. RPM packages are being prepared by François on their own repository. From this repository, the packages are first synchronized into the primary server => load of bandwidth on the incoming. Then are synchronized to the primary mirror => load of bandwidth on the outgoing. This both represents a long time. On the redirector, packages are cached directly from the François repository == this does not cause any bandwidth load on the primary server, and the packages may be available before they are downloaded to the primary server.
Therefore, I would like to say that caching on the redirector is very beneficial both for saving bandwidth to the primary server and also for faster availability of packages to users. Both sides wins :)
Already R14.0.4 has successfully used this cache at the time of release.
(3) There were severe slowdowns for several days during R14.0.4 rollout which appeared to be due to master server bandwidth limitations.
Yes, releasing the version will always cause a load of bandwidth to the primary server for several days. However, thanks to the cache on the redirector, this load can be lower and the packages are accessible to users earlier.
Note: If I remember correctly, the RPM packages cache on the redirector have not yet been set at time of release R14.0.4. Therefore, when we release R14.0.5, I expect the additional benefit of this cache.
--Mike
Cheers
-
Mike Bird -
Slávek Banko