Yes, that is where we go eventually. :) The etherpad is an outline. Something that can be used in the revamped web site to provide a basic list. The descriptions will grow with screen grabs. If everybody picked a few apps, snapped a couple of screen shots, added more detail to the descriptions, then we could have a nice application description section in short order. Dependencies and build instructions should go in the wiki rather than main web site. Here is a suggested outline for those wiki pages: Feel free to edit as necessary everybody. :) Trinity Package Build Requirements ===================================== Common Expected System Dependencies ===================================== cups pcre libxml2 libxslt dbus-python libpng poppler rebuilt with Qt3 support ruby wv2 ===================================== Optional Third Party Dependencies ===================================== openexr ilmbase GraphicsMagick jre (Java Runtime Engine) jdk (Java Development Kit) xmms ortp boost facile ocaml graphviz speex gnokii opensync libsndfile libdvdcss libdvdnav lame libdv libdvdread a52dec faac faad2 xvidcore liboil schroedinger openjpeg yasm x264 speex ffmpeg libquicktime mjpegtools libmpeg2 transcode vcdimager emovix ===================================== Trinity Foundation Packages ===================================== tqt3 tqtinterface arts libart-lgpl avahi-tqt dbus-1-tqt dbus-tqt python-tqt sip4-tqt tqca tqca-tls tqscintilla ===================================== Trinity Core Packages ===================================== tdelibs tdebase ===================================== Trinity Main Packages ===================================== tdebindings tdeaccessibility tdeutils tdemultimedia tdenetwork tdeadmin tdeartwork tdegames tdetoys tdeedu tdegraphics tdevelop tdeaddons tdewebdev tdepim tdesdk tdei ===================================== Trinity Libraries ===================================== kipi-plugins libkdcraw libkexiv2 libkipi libksquirrel libtqt-perl mlt mlt++ pytdeextensions python-trinity libical libcaldav libcarddav ===================================== Additional Trinity Applications ===================================== abakus adept amarok basket bibletime compizconfig-backend-kconfig desktop-effects-tde digikam dolphin filelight filelight-l10n fusion-icon gtk-qt-engine gwenview k3b k9copy kaffeine kaffeine-mozilla katapult kbarcode kbfx kbookreader kchmviewer kcpuload kdbusnotification kdiff3 kdirstat kdmtheme kdpkg keep kerry kgtk-qt3 kile kima kio-apt kio-locate kio-umountwrapper kiosktool kmplayer kmyfirewall kmymoney knemo knetload knetstats knetworkmanager8 knetworkmanager9 knights knowit knutclient koffice konversation kopete-otr kpicosim kpilot kpowersave kradio krename krusader ksplash-engine-moodin ksquirrel kstreamripper ksystemlog ktechlab ktorrent kuickshow kvirc kvkbd kvpnc piklab potracegui rosegarden smartcardauth smb4k soundkonverter tde-guidance tde-style-lipstik tde-style-qtcurve tde-systemsettings tdesudo tdesvn tellico twin-style-crystal wlassistant yakuake Darrell

With reference to Trinity. :) For example, building kprinter is useless unless cups is installed. Many distro maintainers no longer build poppler with Qt3 support. Amarok breaks unless ruby is installed while building. Etc. No need to get carried away with this list. :) Darrell

Sure, when people build from scratch things get complicated. :) I have good notes about what external packages are required to provide TDE full functionality. The original KDE3 packages provided many hooks to other packages. The KDE3 packages still built when those external packages were not installed, but when those packages were installed and the respective configure options were set, then the KDE3 packages took advantage of those hooks. Those hooks still exist in TDE. That is the point of my original statement. Using the word dependency was inaccurate. Expanded functionality is a better expression. Your point about kghostview is interesting. Will kdegraphics build when ghostview is not installed? I presume yes and that the configure messages will say as much. The Kghostview package would not get built but I presume Kpdf would. That pretty much is how I accumulated my notes about external packages. Those packages are not dependencies, but external icing on the cake. I don't pretend to know what additional functionality each of those hooks provide, I only know that when those external packages are not installed I see related messages during the configure process (now cmake with several packages). I mentioned in a previous response I could provide those notes if requested. I suppose I should just post them. :) Darrell

When installed these packages provide additional functionality in TDE: ==================================== I don't know which TDE packages look for the following. I know that they were expected to be installed back in the KDE3 days. ==================================== pcre (Perl-compatible regular expression library) libxml2 (many TDE packages?) libxslt (twebdev? others?) dbus-python (kdebindings? others?) libpng (many TDE packages?) poppler (tdegraphics, others?) ==================================== tdelibs, tdebase ==================================== cups (kprint) avahi (dns-sd, dns service discovery/zeroconf) required by avahi libdaemon lua hspell (Hebrew spell checking) ==================================== Several Trinity packages ==================================== krb5 (kerberos authentication) (Any package that uses a login likely takes advantage of this) openexr (EXR image format support) required by openexr ilmbase ==================================== tdebase, koffice-chalk ==================================== GraphicsMagick (various image filters) ==================================== tdebindings ==================================== sip, PyQt3, pyKDE3 (Python support) jre (Java Runtime Engine) jdk (Java Development Kit) Ruby ==================================== tdeutils, tdeaddons, tnetwork ==================================== xmms (I have no idea what the connection might be :)) ==================================== tdenetwork, kdepim (kopete jabber jingle) ==================================== ortp ==================================== tdeedu ==================================== boost kalzium (tdeedu) facile required by facile ocaml ==================================== tdevelop ==================================== graphviz ==================================== tdenetwork ==================================== ffmpeg required by ffmpeg speex ==================================== tdepim ==================================== gnokii opensync libical libcarddav libcaldav ==================================== amarok ==================================== ruby libmp4v2 libmusicbrainz daap libnjb libmtp libgpod libkarma amazon xmms gstreamer ==================================== k3b ==================================== libsndfile libdvdcss libdvdnav required by k3b and ffmpeg lame libdv libdvdread a52dec required by ffmpeg faac faad2 xvidcore liboil schroedinger (requires liboil) openjpeg yasm x264 (requires yasm) speex required by transcode ffmpeg libquicktime mjpegtools libmpeg2 transcode vcdimager emovix musepack-tools libmusicbrainz ==================================== koffice ==================================== wv2 GraphicsMagick (chalk) ==================================== kaffeine ==================================== gst-plugins-base gstreamer xine-lib ==================================== k9copy ==================================== ffmpeg dvdauthor vamps MPlayer k3b ==================================== digikam ==================================== lcms dcraw libgphoto2 jasper exiv2 libkdcraw libkexiv2 libkipi kipi-plugins sqlite ==================================== gwenview ==================================== exiv2 libkexiv2 libkipi kipi-plugins Reminder: most of these packages are not dependencies or build requirements. These packages provide additional functionality. This list is by no means complete or exhaustive. Yes, this type of information should be in the wiki. When we get around to that as a team, we should list dependencies for each package, but we should add these other packages as providing additional functionality. I think the easiest way to create a complete lists for both is to parse the configure options. :) Darrell

Darrell Anderson wrote: How about kdelibs+kdebase without arts. That gives konsole and konqueror. What else is needed? koffice? kpdf? kmail? A couple of apps from kdepim? Not everything needs to be Trinity. Other apps such as FF and OO are useful in an office environment. -- Bruce

Darrell Anderson wrote: I understand where you are coming from, but wonder how many need such a system. I just checked and Wal-Mart has brand new systems with 1 TB disk and 3GB ram for $300. For a used system, I see a 1.7GHz P4 w/512 RAM for $25. One problem with the PIIs is that they are being scrapped as junk. You can't find a lot of them any more. The other side is how many users will be satisfied with systems without Java, JavaScript, iframes, Flash, etc? Personally, I don't have Flash on my regular browser because it is used 90% of the time for ads that I don't want to see. I have another browser with it for those few occasions that it's needed. I like the command line (konsole), but many don't. I've been thinking of going back to Lynx/Links because of all the junk put out by a lot of web sites. OTOH, Trinity is quite snappy on a Core2 system or even a 3GHz P4 (2005 vintage). -- Bruce

Darrell Anderson wrote: I had to pass -DBUILD_KGHOSTVIEW=OFF to cmake to get kdegraphics to build. In fact, here are my notes: cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=$TRINITY_PREFIX \ -DCMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE=ON \ -DQT_VERSION=3 \ -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS="-fpermissive" \ -DWITH_TIFF=ON \ -DWITH_PAM=ON \ -DBUILD_ALL=ON \ -DBUILD_KAMERA=OFF \ -DBUILD_KSVG=OFF \ -DBUILD_KUICKSHOW=OFF \ -DBUILD_LIBKSCAN=OFF \ -DBUILD_KOOKA=OFF \ -DBUILD_KGHOSTVIEW=OFF \ -DBUILD_KFILE_PLUGINS=OFF \ $KDEGRAPHICS && #-DWITH_LIBPAPER=ON #-DWITH_T1LIB=ON #-DWITH_OPENEXR=ON #-DBUILD_KAMERA requires gphoto2 #-DBUILD_KSVG=OFF requires fribidi #-DBUILD_KUICKSHOW=OFF requires imlib #-DBUILD_LIBKSCAN=OFF requires sane #-DBUILD_KFILE_PLUGINS=OFF needs poppler kpdf is built. In fact, these are all the programs built: kcolorchooser kdvi kfaxview kolourpaint kpovmodeler ksnapshot kviewshell kcoloredit kfax kiconedit kpdf kruler kview mrmlsearch xf86gammacfg -- Bruce

Darrell Anderson wrote: I don't remember if cmake failed or not. In a couple of places, cmake completed but the make failed. In a complex package like kdegraphics, it's hard to get every combination right. -- Bruce

I think that is good news. Please provide further details. For example, in Slackware poppler no longer is built with Qt3 support. Does adding the new poppler-tqt package overcome that problem? Does poppler-tqt install header files to /usr/include/poppler/Qt3? Or does poppler-tqt install headers that provide the same support as building poppler with Qt3 support but only TDE packages know where to find those headers? In other words, the Qt3 support is unique only to TDE and no other system packages can find that support? Looks to me like building tdegraphics automatically builds poppler-tqt and I don't have to build that separately? If a distro maintainer builds poppler with Qt3 support, will this new poppler-tqt conflict? Do distro maintainers who want to package TDE need to know they don't have to rebuild poppler with Qt3 support? I'm happy to learn I no longer have to rebuild poppler! I'm just asking questions to understand this new support. :) Darrell

Please change what you want. I threw that list into the conversation only as a starter. Something off the top off my head. One only caveat is there is a pecking order for building some packages. Obvious is the foundation dependency packages: tqt3, tqtinterface, etc., need to be built before anything else. PyQt3 and PyKDE3 need to be built before building kdebindings. Not required but there will be no Python integration if those packages are not built first. I think those two packages are renamed in TDE. libical, libcaldav, and libcarddav need to be built before kdepim. The latter two are not required but must be built if kdepim is to take advantage. Build tdesdk after installing tdepim. tdepim provides libkcal (bugzilla) hooks for tdesdk. I can post an exhaustive list if anybody is interested. Darrell

You are new to the list (I think). In the last monthly meeting, I committed to creating a list of app descriptions. Something to get us started for the new web site revisions. I completed the list, which now is available to the team for further editing. This is only a starter list so please help! The wiki has only the basics for building packages. Participants agreed in the last monthly meeting that the wiki needs significant improvement to help build all packages. Please feel free to hack at the wiki. :) Darrell