a new website's been mentioned around. Using werc seems to work really well for suckless.org's projects (dwm, dmenu, st, stali etc), and had a nice interface, renders fast and isn't web2.0
On 02/20/2014 10:36 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
a new website's been mentioned around. Using werc seems to work really well for suckless.org's projects (dwm, dmenu, st, stali etc), and had a nice interface, renders fast and isn't web2.0
I spoke with Tim a week or so ago and begged that we replace Foswiki with Mediawiki. He has indicated that is OK as long as we all assist in moving the content over. In preparation I have gathered all the templates that we will need on mediawiki and put up a test install of mediawiki to test them. Most of the templates are from the Arch site (since they work so darn well). You can look at the templates I've collected so far here:
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Wiki_boxes
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Wiki_usage
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Help:Cheatsheet
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Help:Editing
MediaWiki is so far superior to foswiki that it isn't even a race. And from a maintenance standpoint, you will find 99 out of 100 wiki users can add to mediawiki (or know the basics) compared to the 1 that might know fos.
Given Mediawiki's seamless ability to integrate with git/SCM, etc. it will be a move in the right direction. When Tim gets the site setup, I'm committed to a page-a-day transition (goal), and I will need help, so sign up to help.
The new site is actually in a fairly advanced stage. I've uploaded a screenshot here:
http://postimg.org/image/iit3zes1p/
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font inside the browser). The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an 800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
What's wrong with JavaScript? Are you just that Ludditus?
The site looks good :-) I'm excited to see it roll out On Feb 20, 2014 7:20 PM, "E. Liddell" ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
The new site is actually in a fairly advanced stage. I've uploaded a screenshot here:
http://postimg.org/image/iit3zes1p/
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font inside the browser). The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an 800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
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On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:32:43 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
What's wrong with JavaScript? Are you just that Ludditus?
It isn't innately evil, but I have a policy that it should be used only where it does something useful that can't be done on the server side, and if it is used, it has to downgrade gracefully. 90% of all Javascript on the Web is at best questionable in its usefulness and undergoes no downgrade testing. I wanted the site to be usable in Lynx (which has no Javascript capability at all), and for people who prefer to turn Javascript off to keep it from being used as a vector for unwanted ads and other nasties.
E. Liddell
On Friday 21 February 2014 11:20:56 E. Liddell wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:32:43 -0500
Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
What's wrong with JavaScript? Are you just that Ludditus?
It isn't innately evil, but I have a policy that it should be used only where it does something useful that can't be done on the server side, and if it is used, it has to downgrade gracefully. 90% of all Javascript on the Web is at best questionable in its usefulness and undergoes no downgrade testing. I wanted the site to be usable in Lynx (which has no Javascript capability at all), and for people who prefer to turn Javascript off to keep it from being used as a vector for unwanted ads and other nasties.
E. Liddell
+1
On 02/21/2014 12:53 PM, Baron wrote:
It isn't innately evil, but I have a policy that it should be used
only where it does something useful that can't be done on the server side, and if it is used, it has to downgrade gracefully. 90% of all Javascript on the Web is at best questionable in its usefulness and undergoes no downgrade testing. I wanted the site to be usable in Lynx (which has no Javascript capability at all), and for people who prefer to turn Javascript off to keep it from being used as a vector for unwanted ads and other nasties.
E. Liddell
+1
+2
That is the primary reason my 2 menuing solutions are CSS only :)
On 02/20/2014 06:19 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font inside the browser). The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an 800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
Good. Nothing wrong with js, just too many cites go crazy with it to the point that the code become unreadable with 18 nested <div>s, etc. I'll have to see how the tabs across the top operate. I've never been a big fan of tabs-on-top preferring css menu setups, I'm sure they will work fine here. How long until you think it will go-live? I am ready to fill in the wki as soon as the site is up.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 02:55:31 -0600 "David C. Rankin" drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com wrote:
On 02/20/2014 06:19 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font inside the browser). The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an 800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
Good. Nothing wrong with js, just too many cites go crazy with it to the point that the code become unreadable with 18 nested <div>s, etc. I'll have to see how the tabs across the top operate. I've never been a big fan of tabs-on-top preferring css menu setups, I'm sure they will work fine here. How long until you think it will go-live? I am ready to fill in the wki as soon as the site is up.
The tabs across the top aren't part of the site--I was just too lazy to trim the edges of the screenshot. They're part of the Firefox chrome, although the ColorfulTabs plugin probably makes that less than clear if you've never seen it in action before. All of the site navigation is in the sidebar on the left below the Trinity logo, in ordinary links. And the code mostly maxes out at 5 nested divs. ;)
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
E. Liddell
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
E., thanks for the update on the status of the new website. I haven't got time to be around there recently. Nothing has been decided yet, but I think the new site may go live around the time we reach RC1 or RC2 for R14. Once we reach RC1, we may have a little "task force" to review and do the final touches/updates to the new website and then go live. But as said, nothing decided yet.
BTW, any idea of when the new Mediawiki site will be ready? I want to do some updates (when I can find the time:) ), but no point to do it in the current wiki if later it has to be ported to Mediawiki.
Michele
On 02/21/2014 05:38 AM, E. Liddell wrote:
The tabs across the top aren't part of the site--I was just too lazy to trim the edges of the screenshot. They're part of the Firefox chrome, although the ColorfulTabs plugin probably makes that less than clear if you've never seen it in action before. All of the site navigation is in the sidebar on the left below the Trinity logo, in ordinary links. And the code mostly maxes out at 5 nested divs. ;)
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
Sure feel free. If the site is all inclusive, then we may not need a separate wiki (although I usually see that major packages/distros normally have a main site, then the nitty gritty details in a wiki). If you can identify what if any of the current site you see going into the wiki, I can go ahead and do the transition on my mediawiki install and then just move the content to wherever the final location will be. What I don't know is what content is 'site' and what content would go to 'wiki'. If we can get an idea of the split, then I'm happy to start work on the wiki.
And even though I did a test install on mediawiki, if you guys are in love with Fos, I can work with that as well, I just find it so limited and inflexible compared to mediawiki that it usually takes 5 times as long to do X in fos as it does to do X in mediawik.
How are you doing menus on the website? I see the left column - static is fine, but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick. One is the traditional fly-out (either horiz or ver) menus (w/sub-menus) - the other is a collapsible tree like a (tree mode) directory listing in konqueror file manager. Both can be used as the main menu for a site, or just included as minor elements where saving space is needed or desired.
Both types can be seen/tested in a 3-colum web template I created 4 or 5 years ago (just checked, it still works :)
http://www.3111skyline.com/download/webdev/3ColTemplate/
All of the css/html/php for the template is contained in a tarball for the template:
http://www.3111skyline.com/download/webdev/3ColTemplate.tar.bz2
... ah, that's right, I did the original kcontrol renaming proposals in the 'tree' menu for quick comparison of old verses proposed. That can still be seen here:
http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/dt/trinity/kcontrol/
That provides a good example of what can be done with the tree menu.
E. just give me a shout and let me know what you need and I'll help any way I can.
On 02/21/2014 03:08 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
How are you doing menus on the website? I see the left column - static is fine, but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick.
OK, the tree has 'a pinch of js', but downgrades into a static list just fine :)
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:08:23 -0600 "David C. Rankin" drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com wrote:
On 02/21/2014 05:38 AM, E. Liddell wrote:
All of the site navigation is in the sidebar on the left below the Trinity logo, in ordinary links. And the code mostly maxes out at 5 nested divs. ;)
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
Sure feel free. If the site is all inclusive, then we may not need a separate wiki (although I usually see that major packages/distros normally have a main site, then the nitty gritty details in a wiki). If you can identify what if any of the current site you see going into the wiki, I can go ahead and do the transition on my mediawiki install and then just move the content to wherever the final location will be. What I don't know is what content is 'site' and what content would go to 'wiki'. If we can get an idea of the split, then I'm happy to start work on the wiki.
For the moment, the division between the site proper and the wiki is still the same as on the old site. Keeping stuff that's going to change at more than a snail's pace in the wiki still makes sense. Darrell may have some plans to shift stuff around that he hasn't discussed with me, though.
In addition to the current site content, we're adding the contents of the FAQ found in the Help Center to the site. The plan (if Tim agrees) is to eventually have all of the Handbooks (at least the English versions) available there too, but at the moment, the content is in too rough/unupdated a shape to reflect well on us, so that's on hold until after V.14.0
And even though I did a test install on mediawiki, if you guys are in love with Fos, I can work with that as well, I just find it so limited and inflexible compared to mediawiki that it usually takes 5 times as long to do X in fos as it does to do X in mediawik.
Actually, Mediawiki is preferable from my pont of view--there are no FOSWiki packages for Gentoo, so I was originally looking at writing an ebuild before I even got to the skinning stage. Mediawiki doesn't have that problem.
Which version of Mediawiki were you looking at setting up? I'd like to keep my testing environment consistent, if possible.
How are you doing menus on the website? I see the left column - static is fine, but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick. One is the traditional fly-out (either horiz or ver) menus (w/sub-menus) - the other is a collapsible tree like a (tree mode) directory listing in konqueror file manager. Both can be used as the main menu for a site, or just included as minor elements where saving space is needed or desired.
Those are both nice menus (and if you don't mind my swiping the code, I may some day find a use for them somewhere else), but I do have a reason for keeping to static links in this case--it's that pesky Lynx compatibility again. I want to make things easy for people intent on setting up Trinity as the very first graphical environment on their brand- new Linux box, even if that perhaps isn't strictly necessary in this day and age. ;)
E. just give me a shout and let me know what you need and I'll help any way I can.
I'm intending to do the Bugzilla skin this weekend, then look at the wiki next week. I may have some questions for you then.
E. Liddell
On 02/21/2014 03:50 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
Which version of Mediawiki were you looking at setting up? I'd like to keep my testing environment consistent, if possible.
The latest 1.22
http://download.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.22/mediawiki-1.22.2.tar.gz
When you get mediawiki installed, go to my mediawiki site and grab all the templates too. I just set them up in the past couple of days for use in the TDE wiki. They include a very good FAQ template as well. Navigate to the Special:Export page and put a check in ALL 3 boxes and paste the following list into the BIG export window (leave the little window blank).
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Special:Export (you can trust the self-signed certificate)
Template:Template Template:App Template:Article summary start Template:Article summary heading Template:Article summary text Template:Article summary link Template:Article summary wiki Template:Article summary end Template:META Box Template:META Box Blue Template:META Box Green Template:META Box Red Template:META Error Template:Bug Template:Note Template:Warning Template:Tip Template:Bc Template:Hc Template:Ic Template:I18n Template:Grp Template:Pkg Template:Wikipedia Template:AUR Template:Deletion Template:Expansion Template:FAQ Template:Accuracy Template:Linkrot Template:List of Applications navigation Template:Lowercase title Template:Merge Template:News Template:No Template:Yes Template:Out of date Template:Progressbar Template:Related Template:Related articles end Template:Related articles start Template:Sandbox Template:StatusTable Template:StatusTable:Green Template:StatusTable:Red Template:StatusTable:Silver Template:StatusTable:Yellow Template:Stub Help:Template Template:Template Name Template:Lorem Ipsum Help:Editing Template:Bad translation Template:Moveto Template:Poor writing Template:Translateme Help:Style Help:Reading
That should get all the needed/relevant templates.
How are you doing menus on the website? I see the left column - static is fine, but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick. One is the traditional fly-out (either horiz or ver) menus (w/sub-menus) - the other is a collapsible tree like a (tree mode) directory listing in konqueror file manager. Both can be used as the main menu for a site, or just included as minor elements where saving space is needed or desired.
Those are both nice menus (and if you don't mind my swiping the code, I may some day find a use for them somewhere else), but I do have a reason for keeping to static links in this case--it's that pesky Lynx compatibility again. I want to make things easy for people intent on setting up Trinity as the very first graphical environment on their brand- new Linux box, even if that perhaps isn't strictly necessary in this day and age. ;)
Feel free. I GPLv2'ed the entire 3-Column template and provide the tarball for download, so grab it and cannibalize it at will.
Take a look at the main css menus in Lynx (I use it too). It works beautifully. The tree menu does require js, so it does not play well with lynx. But, seriously, the css-menu provides a beautiful indented listing of all sub-menus in lynx.
E. just give me a shout and let me know what you need and I'll help any way I can.
I'm intending to do the Bugzilla skin this weekend, then look at the wiki next week. I may have some questions for you then.
E. Liddell
We'll be here. You guys keep up the good work, I'm going back to picking blindly on systemd user session/process tracking...
On 02/21/2014 05:38 AM, E. Liddell wrote:
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
E.,
We may also want to look at doing a bit of data-collection with mysql and also look at how we can use/incorporate a data backend to keep the data current. The integration is straightforward. The website template has a small visitor database it uses, but beyond that, there are limitless possibilities for using database driven content in the site. Especially with projects like TDE. For example, the build order and requirements could be automatically generated such that changes to the way TDE builds (i.e. cmake for X, autotools for Y) are automatically updated on the site as well without user intervention. The more we can do in that regard now, the less maintenance there will be later on. That's just an example, but anything we can do to set the site up so that it is data-driven rather than "somebody has to update the site each time X changes", the better off we will be -- less maintenance, less maintenance, less maintenance...
-
Baron -
Calvin Morrison -
David C. Rankin -
E. Liddell -
Michele Calgaro