20 Feb
2014
20 Feb
'14
4:36 p.m.
a new website's been mentioned around. Using werc seems to work really
well for suckless.org's projects (dwm, dmenu, st, stali etc), and had
a nice interface, renders fast and isn't web2.0
http://suckless.org/
20 Feb
20 Feb
8:42 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On 02/20/2014 10:36 AM, Calvin Morrison wrote:
a new website's been mentioned around. Using werc
seems to work really
well for suckless.org's projects (dwm, dmenu, st, stali etc), and had
a nice interface, renders fast and isn't web2.0
http://suckless.org/
I spoke with Tim a week or so ago and begged that we replace Foswiki with
Mediawiki. He has indicated that is OK as long as we all assist in moving the
content over. In preparation I have gathered all the templates that we will need
on mediawiki and put up a test install of mediawiki to test them. Most of the
templates are from the Arch site (since they work so darn well). You can look at
the templates I've collected so far here:
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Wiki_boxes
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Wiki_usage
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Help:Cheatsheet
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Help:Editing
MediaWiki is so far superior to foswiki that it isn't even a race. And from a
maintenance standpoint, you will find 99 out of 100 wiki users can add to
mediawiki (or know the basics) compared to the 1 that might know fos.
Given Mediawiki's seamless ability to integrate with git/SCM, etc. it will be
a move in the right direction. When Tim gets the site setup, I'm committed to a
page-a-day transition (goal), and I will need help, so sign up to help.
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
21 Feb
21 Feb
12:19 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
The new site is actually in a fairly advanced stage. I've uploaded a
screenshot here:
http://postimg.org/image/iit3zes1p/
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font inside the browser).
The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and
resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an
800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could
use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript
has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
1:32 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
What's wrong with JavaScript? Are you just that Ludditus?
The site looks good :-) I'm excited to see it roll out
On Feb 20, 2014 7:20 PM, "E. Liddell" <ejlddll(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
The new site is actually in a fairly advanced stage.
I've uploaded a
screenshot here:
http://postimg.org/image/iit3zes1p/
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font inside the browser).
The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and
resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an
800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could
use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript
has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
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11:20 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:32:43 -0500
Calvin Morrison <mutantturkey(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What's wrong with JavaScript? Are you just that
Ludditus?
It isn't innately evil, but I have a policy that it should be used only
where it does something useful that can't be done on the server
side, and if it is used, it has to downgrade gracefully.
90% of all Javascript on the Web is at best questionable in its
usefulness and undergoes no downgrade testing. I wanted the
site to be usable in Lynx (which has no Javascript capability at
all), and for people who prefer to turn Javascript off to keep it
from being used as a vector for unwanted ads and other nasties.
E. Liddell
6:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On Friday 21 February 2014 11:20:56 E. Liddell wrote:
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:32:43 -0500
Calvin Morrison <mutantturkey(a)gmail.com> wrote:
+1
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
What's wrong with JavaScript? Are you just
that Ludditus?
It isn't innately evil, but I have a policy that it should be used
only where it does something useful that can't be done on the server
side, and if it is used, it has to downgrade gracefully.
90% of all Javascript on the Web is at best questionable in its
usefulness and undergoes no downgrade testing. I wanted the
site to be usable in Lynx (which has no Javascript capability at
all), and for people who prefer to turn Javascript off to keep it
from being used as a vector for unwanted ads and other nasties.
E. Liddell
9:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On 02/21/2014 12:53 PM, Baron wrote:
+2
That is the primary reason my 2 menuing solutions are CSS only :)
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
It isn't
innately evil, but I have a policy that it should be used
> only where it does something useful that can't be done on the server
> side, and if it is used, it has to downgrade gracefully.
> 90% of all Javascript on the Web is at best questionable in its
> usefulness and undergoes no downgrade testing. I wanted the
> site to be usable in Lynx (which has no Javascript capability at
> all), and for people who prefer to turn Javascript off to keep it
> from being used as a vector for unwanted ads and other nasties.
>
> E. Liddell
+1
8:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On 02/20/2014 06:19 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font
inside the browser).
The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and
resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an
800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could
use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript
has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
Good. Nothing wrong with js, just too many cites go crazy with it to the point
that the code become unreadable with 18 nested <div>s, etc. I'll have to see
how
the tabs across the top operate. I've never been a big fan of tabs-on-top
preferring css menu setups, I'm sure they will work fine here. How long until
you think it will go-live? I am ready to fill in the wki as soon as the site is up.
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
11:38 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 02:55:31 -0600
"David C. Rankin" <drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 02/20/2014 06:19 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
The tabs across the top aren't part of the site--I was just too lazy to trim the
edges of the screenshot. They're part of the Firefox chrome, although the
ColorfulTabs plugin probably makes that less than clear if you've never seen
it in action before. All of the site navigation is in the sidebar on the left below
the Trinity logo, in ordinary links. And the code mostly maxes out at 5 nested
divs. ;)
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to
produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch
with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing
most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
E. Liddell
for the curious (note: Firefox, 10pt Arial font
inside the browser).
The template has been tested in a wide variety of browsers and
resolutions and works well in anything modern with at least an
800 x 600 resolution, and well enough in Lynx that you could
use it to download a package for installation. And no Javascript
has been added that wasn't there already, I promise.
E. Liddell
Good. Nothing wrong with js, just too many cites go crazy with it to the point
that the code become unreadable with 18 nested <div>s, etc. I'll have to see
how
the tabs across the top operate. I've never been a big fan of tabs-on-top
preferring css menu setups, I'm sure they will work fine here. How long until
you think it will go-live? I am ready to fill in the wki as soon as the site is up.
12:32 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take
place. I still have to
produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch
with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing
most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
E., thanks for the update on the status of the new website. I haven't got time to be
around there recently.
Nothing has been decided yet, but I think the new site may go live around the time we
reach RC1 or RC2 for R14.
Once we reach RC1, we may have a little "task force" to review and do the final
touches/updates to the new website and then go live.
But as said, nothing decided yet.
BTW, any idea of when the new Mediawiki site will be ready? I want to do some updates
(when I can find the time:) ), but no point to do it in the current wiki if later it has
to be ported to Mediawiki.
Michele
9:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On 02/21/2014 05:38 AM, E. Liddell wrote:
The tabs across the top aren't part of the site--I
was just too lazy to trim the
edges of the screenshot. They're part of the Firefox chrome, although the
ColorfulTabs plugin probably makes that less than clear if you've never seen
it in action before. All of the site navigation is in the sidebar on the left below
the Trinity logo, in ordinary links. And the code mostly maxes out at 5 nested
divs. ;)
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to
produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch
with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing
most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
Sure feel free. If the site is all inclusive, then we may not need a separate
wiki (although I usually see that major packages/distros normally have a main
site, then the nitty gritty details in a wiki). If you can identify what if any
of the current site you see going into the wiki, I can go ahead and do the
transition on my mediawiki install and then just move the content to wherever
the final location will be. What I don't know is what content is 'site' and
what
content would go to 'wiki'. If we can get an idea of the split, then I'm
happy
to start work on the wiki.
And even though I did a test install on mediawiki, if you guys are in love with
Fos, I can work with that as well, I just find it so limited and inflexible
compared to mediawiki that it usually takes 5 times as long to do X in fos as it
does to do X in mediawik.
How are you doing menus on the website? I see the left column - static is fine,
but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick.
One is the traditional fly-out (either horiz or ver) menus (w/sub-menus) - the
other is a collapsible tree like a (tree mode) directory listing in konqueror
file manager. Both can be used as the main menu for a site, or just included as
minor elements where saving space is needed or desired.
Both types can be seen/tested in a 3-colum web template I created 4 or 5 years
ago (just checked, it still works :)
http://www.3111skyline.com/download/webdev/3ColTemplate/
All of the css/html/php for the template is contained in a tarball for the template:
http://www.3111skyline.com/download/webdev/3ColTemplate.tar.bz2
... ah, that's right, I did the original kcontrol renaming proposals in the
'tree' menu for quick comparison of old verses proposed. That can still be seen
here:
http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/dt/trinity/kcontrol/
That provides a good example of what can be done with the tree menu.
E. just give me a shout and let me know what you need and I'll help any way I can.
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
9:17 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On 02/21/2014 03:08 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
How are you doing menus on the website? I see the left
column - static is fine,
but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick.
OK, the tree has 'a pinch of js', but downgrades into a static list just fine :)
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
9:50 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:08:23 -0600
"David C. Rankin" <drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
On 02/21/2014 05:38 AM, E. Liddell wrote:
For the moment, the division between the site proper and the wiki is
still the same as on the old site. Keeping stuff that's going to change at
more than a snail's pace in the wiki still makes sense. Darrell may have
some plans to shift stuff around that he hasn't discussed with me, though.
In addition to the current site content, we're adding the contents of
the FAQ found in the Help Center to the site. The plan (if Tim agrees)
is to eventually have all of the Handbooks (at least the English versions)
available there too, but at the moment, the content is in too rough/unupdated
a shape to reflect well on us, so that's on hold until after V.14.0
All of the site navigation is in the sidebar on
the left below
the Trinity logo, in ordinary links. And the code mostly maxes out at 5 nested
divs. ;)
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take place. I still have to
produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch
with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing
most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
Sure feel free. If the site is all inclusive, then we may not need a separate
wiki (although I usually see that major packages/distros normally have a main
site, then the nitty gritty details in a wiki). If you can identify what if any
of the current site you see going into the wiki, I can go ahead and do the
transition on my mediawiki install and then just move the content to wherever
the final location will be. What I don't know is what content is 'site' and
what
content would go to 'wiki'. If we can get an idea of the split, then I'm
happy
to start work on the wiki. And even though I did a test install on mediawiki, if
you guys are in love with
Fos, I can work with that as well, I just find it so limited and inflexible
compared to mediawiki that it usually takes 5 times as long to do X in fos as it
does to do X in mediawik.
Actually, Mediawiki is preferable from my pont of view--there are no
FOSWiki packages for Gentoo, so I was originally looking at writing
an ebuild before I even got to the skinning stage. Mediawiki doesn't
have that problem.
Which version of Mediawiki were you looking at setting up? I'd
like to keep my testing environment consistent, if possible.
How are you doing menus on the website? I see the left
column - static is fine,
but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick.
One is the traditional fly-out (either horiz or ver) menus (w/sub-menus) - the
other is a collapsible tree like a (tree mode) directory listing in konqueror
file manager. Both can be used as the main menu for a site, or just included as
minor elements where saving space is needed or desired.
Those are both nice menus (and if you don't mind my swiping the code,
I may some day find a use for them somewhere else), but I do have a
reason for keeping to static links in this case--it's that pesky Lynx
compatibility again. I want to make things easy for people intent on
setting up Trinity as the very first graphical environment on their brand-
new Linux box, even if that perhaps isn't strictly necessary in this day
and age. ;)
E. just give me a shout and let me know what you need
and I'll help
any way I can.
I'm intending to do the Bugzilla skin this weekend, then look at the
wiki next week. I may have some questions for you then.
E. Liddell
10:10 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On 02/21/2014 03:50 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
We'll be here. You guys keep up the good work, I'm going back to picking blindly
on systemd user session/process tracking...
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Which version of Mediawiki were you looking at setting
up? I'd
like to keep my testing environment consistent, if possible.
The latest 1.22
http://download.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.22/mediawiki-1.22.2.tar.gz
When you get mediawiki installed, go to my mediawiki site and grab all the
templates too. I just set them up in the past couple of days for use in the TDE
wiki. They include a very good FAQ template as well. Navigate to the
Special:Export page and put a check in ALL 3 boxes and paste the following list
into the BIG export window (leave the little window blank).
https://www.rlfpllc.com/mediawiki/index.php/Special:Export
(you can trust the self-signed certificate)
Template:Template
Template:App
Template:Article summary start
Template:Article summary heading
Template:Article summary text
Template:Article summary link
Template:Article summary wiki
Template:Article summary end
Template:META Box
Template:META Box Blue
Template:META Box Green
Template:META Box Red
Template:META Error
Template:Bug
Template:Note
Template:Warning
Template:Tip
Template:Bc
Template:Hc
Template:Ic
Template:I18n
Template:Grp
Template:Pkg
Template:Wikipedia
Template:AUR
Template:Deletion
Template:Expansion
Template:FAQ
Template:Accuracy
Template:Linkrot
Template:List of Applications navigation
Template:Lowercase title
Template:Merge
Template:News
Template:No
Template:Yes
Template:Out of date
Template:Progressbar
Template:Related
Template:Related articles end
Template:Related articles start
Template:Sandbox
Template:StatusTable
Template:StatusTable:Green
Template:StatusTable:Red
Template:StatusTable:Silver
Template:StatusTable:Yellow
Template:Stub
Help:Template
Template:Template Name
Template:Lorem Ipsum
Help:Editing
Template:Bad translation
Template:Moveto
Template:Poor writing
Template:Translateme
Help:Style
Help:Reading
That should get all the needed/relevant templates.
> > How are you doing menus on the website? I see
the left column - static is fine,
> > but I have also collected two menuing tools that are pure-css and really slick.
> > One is the traditional fly-out (either horiz or ver) menus (w/sub-menus) - the
> > other is a collapsible tree like a (tree mode) directory listing in konqueror
> > file manager. Both can be used as the main menu for a site, or just included as
> > minor elements where saving space is needed or desired.
Those are both nice menus (and if you don't mind
my swiping the code,
I may some day find a use for them somewhere else), but I do have a
reason for keeping to static links in this case--it's that pesky Lynx
compatibility again. I want to make things easy for people intent on
setting up Trinity as the very first graphical environment on their brand-
new Linux box, even if that perhaps isn't strictly necessary in this day
and age. ;)
Feel free. I GPLv2'ed the entire 3-Column template and provide the tarball for
download, so grab it and cannibalize it at will.
Take a look at the main css menus in Lynx (I use it too). It works beautifully.
The tree menu does require js, so it does not play well with lynx. But,
seriously, the css-menu provides a beautiful indented listing of all sub-menus
in lynx.
> E. just
give me a shout and let me know what you need and I'll help
> any way I can.
I'm intending to do the Bugzilla skin this weekend, then
look at the
wiki next week. I may have some questions for you then.
E. Liddell
9:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] new website thoughts
On 02/21/2014 05:38 AM, E. Liddell wrote:
I have no idea when the actual deployment will take
place. I still have to
produce matching skins for Bugzilla and the wiki (I may need to get in touch
with you off-list about the new wiki at some point). Darrell is the one doing
most of the content retouch, and he's a very busy guy right now.
E.,
We may also want to look at doing a bit of data-collection with mysql and also
look at how we can use/incorporate a data backend to keep the data current. The
integration is straightforward. The website template has a small visitor
database it uses, but beyond that, there are limitless possibilities for using
database driven content in the site. Especially with projects like TDE. For
example, the build order and requirements could be automatically generated such
that changes to the way TDE builds (i.e. cmake for X, autotools for Y) are
automatically updated on the site as well without user intervention. The more we
can do in that regard now, the less maintenance there will be later on. That's
just an example, but anything we can do to set the site up so that it is
data-driven rather than "somebody has to update the site each time X changes",
the better off we will be -- less maintenance, less maintenance, less maintenance...
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
3724
days inactive
3725
days old
14 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Baron -
Calvin Morrison -
David C. Rankin -
E. Liddell -
Michele Calgaro