Hi all,
as many of you may have followed the discussion in the user list regarding a syncing with mobile phone and other mobile devices, I would like to open a discussion on that subject as it looks like we have a base (TDEPIM) but no decent way to answer the recent developments in the mobile scene.
Is someone here willing to help round up a plan what needs to be done to cover the aspects in the context of TDE and TDEPIM.
I'm sure all of us use some kind of mobile devices that can be synced with each other - and it would be a great great idea to have it in TDE.
Unfortunately I dropped any work perhaps in 2010 and did not follow up the further development of akonadi. I still follow the syncevolution. Opensync works great except the syncML protocol, which turned out to be crucial in terms of mobile devices. I don't know what tablets use and especially the Jolla one I would like to buy.
I also don't know what are the plans in TDE. I recall I read somewhere that there is a plan to make use of the newest Qt and KDE4/5 libraries.
I would appreciate any help drafting the steps to bring us to a working solution as it looks like TDE is indeed realy good and useful to all of us. I can speak of myself only and I use it private and for business with a great success.
Thank you in advance
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA224
Hi all,
as many of you may have followed the discussion in the user list regarding a syncing with mobile phone and other mobile devices, I would like to open a discussion on that subject as it looks like we have a base (TDEPIM) but no decent way to answer the recent developments in the mobile scene.
Is someone here willing to help round up a plan what needs to be done to cover the aspects in the context of TDE and TDEPIM.
I'm sure all of us use some kind of mobile devices that can be synced with each other - and it would be a great great idea to have it in TDE.
Unfortunately I dropped any work perhaps in 2010 and did not follow up the further development of akonadi. I still follow the syncevolution. Opensync works great except the syncML protocol, which turned out to be crucial in terms of mobile devices. I don't know what tablets use and especially the Jolla one I would like to buy.
I also don't know what are the plans in TDE. I recall I read somewhere that there is a plan to make use of the newest Qt and KDE4/5 libraries.
I would appreciate any help drafting the steps to bring us to a working solution as it looks like TDE is indeed realy good and useful to all of us. I can speak of myself only and I use it private and for business with a great success.
Thank you in advance
I would be interested in seeing tdepim stabilized and brought up to modern standards. I was the last one to make any major changes to that codebase, adding carddav/caldav support, which unfortunately has bitrotted some over the years due to general lack of interest.
As I don't generally use / sync mobile devices for various security and privacy reasons I don't know what would need to be done to get this working correctly. What is your general use case?
Thanks!
Tim
Timothy Pearson wrote:
As I don't generally use / sync mobile devices for various security and privacy reasons I don't know what would need to be done to get this working correctly. What is your general use case?
Thanks for the reply!
My problem is (I don't know if use case is appropriate), that I was able to sync my phone and Palm III without issue until 2005. Palm broke and phone was replaced some time after and sync stopped working, because newer phones were using SyncML already.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying privacy - I want to have my events, notes, todos in sync on TDE and my phone - I don't see any problem if I sync up via USB cable between PC and phone.
So I am looking for a way to sync up few devices. Tablet, 2xPhones, TDE etc. What should be synced is the trivial once (cal, event, address, todo, notes) and possibly all the rest possible to be synced via syncML (images, mp3 etc - but this is nice to have - I'm sure it will work as the syncml library is pretty good - we just miss an interface in TDE for it).
I have to ask/check Jolla what kind of protocol they offer.
I tried to prepare myself for KDE4 ~2010 but found out that neither KDE4 nor the opensync were going to work properly with SyncML. I have ported/updated KDEPIM to use akonadi and opensync, which is usable in some extend, but not with syncML. After a discussion with syncevo leader and looking into the SyncML protocol I finally understood that the only way is to get advantage of the syncevo engine and do some kind of interface on top that would fit TDE ... might be tdepim and kitchensync or whatever - might be something new. From what I have seen there are also few other candidates that can be updated - I mean use the interface and replace the old code below
I hope this gives an idea
regards
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA224
Timothy Pearson wrote:
As I don't generally use / sync mobile devices for various security and privacy reasons I don't know what would need to be done to get this working correctly. What is your general use case?
Thanks for the reply!
My problem is (I don't know if use case is appropriate), that I was able to sync my phone and Palm III without issue until 2005. Palm broke and phone was replaced some time after and sync stopped working, because newer phones were using SyncML already.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying privacy - I want to have my events, notes, todos in sync on TDE and my phone - I don't see any problem if I sync up via USB cable between PC and phone.
And from my perspective I wouldn't ever want my private notes uploaded to the NSA/<other three letter agency>/Google/<other corporate busybody> over the baseband connection after they are on the phone. That's generally private information (raw unfiltered thoughts), similar to the contents of a personal diary, that in a civilised society only I should ever see. When anyone else starts reading your raw unfiltered thoughts, especially when those same entities can take action against you, it introduces severe chilling effects across the entire population that are long-term damaging to democratic societies.
tl;dr: I never put anything on a phone that hasn't been thoroughly thought through and is ready for public scrutiny. It's an old policy, and one that has unfortunately been proven correct over the years. Now Microsoft is even snooping through everyone's personal files looking for who knows what to make money.
So I am looking for a way to sync up few devices. Tablet, 2xPhones, TDE etc. What should be synced is the trivial once (cal, event, address, todo, notes) and possibly all the rest possible to be synced via syncML (images, mp3 etc - but this is nice to have - I'm sure it will work as the syncml library is pretty good - we just miss an interface in TDE for it).
I am unfamiliar with syncML. Do any of these phones / sync solutions use a standard interface (similar to CalDAV, CardDAV, etc.) or are they all proprietary / device class specific APIs?
Thanks!
Tim
On Thursday 03 of December 2015 20:27:11 Timothy Pearson wrote:
So I am looking for a way to sync up few devices. Tablet, 2xPhones, TDE etc. What should be synced is the trivial once (cal, event, address, todo, notes) and possibly all the rest possible to be synced via syncML (images, mp3 etc - but this is nice to have - I'm sure it will work as the syncml library is pretty good - we just miss an interface in TDE for it).
I am unfamiliar with syncML. Do any of these phones / sync solutions use a standard interface (similar to CalDAV, CardDAV, etc.) or are they all proprietary / device class specific APIs?
Thanks!
Tim
As far as I know, SyncML went into oblivion just because it was very differently implemented in different devices. I personally consider SyncML as the history that is no longer promising.
Current devices usually use CalDAV / CardDAV or ActiveSync or both. For example, there's an application for Android - DAVDroid, which is being developed as opensource. That's why I want to focus on solving problems CalDAV and CardDAV in TDE.
Slávek Banko wrote:
On Thursday 03 of December 2015 20:27:11 Timothy Pearson wrote:
So I am looking for a way to sync up few devices. Tablet, 2xPhones, TDE etc. What should be synced is the trivial once (cal, event, address, todo, notes) and possibly all the rest possible to be synced via syncML (images, mp3 etc - but this is nice to have - I'm sure it will work as the syncml library is pretty good - we just miss an interface in TDE for it).
I am unfamiliar with syncML. Do any of these phones / sync solutions use a standard interface (similar to CalDAV, CardDAV, etc.) or are they all proprietary / device class specific APIs?
Thanks!
Tim
As far as I know, SyncML went into oblivion just because it was very differently implemented in different devices. I personally consider SyncML as the history that is no longer promising.
Current devices usually use CalDAV / CardDAV or ActiveSync or both. For example, there's an application for Android - DAVDroid, which is being developed as opensource. That's why I want to focus on solving problems CalDAV and CardDAV in TDE.
Thanks Slavek, this is why I opened the discussion here. As I mentioned I dropped my work on this couple of years ago and I don't know how far it went on. I'm sure the N9 uses SyncML and I'm sure why it works good. Unfortunately there is no way for sync with TDE. It is a pain to do it with some tricks etc.
I'll check the details on the N9 and the Jolla device and will try to update my knowledge set. It looks like I have to pull tdepim source. Which is the best way to get all relevant packages?
This is what I see on my machine
4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 kontact-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 libkpimexchange1-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 libkpimexchange1-trinity-dev 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 libkpimidentities1-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 libtdepim1-trinity-dev 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 libtdepim1a-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 tdepim-tdefile-plugins-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 tdepim-tdeio-plugins-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 tdepim-tderesources-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 tdepim-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 tdepim-trinity-dev 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 tdepim-wizards-trinity 4:14.0.2-0debian8.0.0+0 kitchensync-trinity
regards
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
On 2015/12/04 03:47 AM, Slávek Banko wrote:
On Thursday 03 of December 2015 20:27:11 Timothy Pearson wrote:
So I am looking for a way to sync up few devices. Tablet, 2xPhones, TDE etc. What should be synced is the trivial once (cal, event, address, todo, notes) and possibly all the rest possible to be synced via syncML (images, mp3 etc - but this is nice to have - I'm sure it will work as the syncml library is pretty good - we just miss an interface in TDE for it).
I am unfamiliar with syncML. Do any of these phones / sync solutions use a standard interface (similar to CalDAV, CardDAV, etc.) or are they all proprietary / device class specific APIs?
Thanks!
Tim
As far as I know, SyncML went into oblivion just because it was very differently implemented in different devices. I personally consider SyncML as the history that is no longer promising.
Current devices usually use CalDAV / CardDAV or ActiveSync or both. For example, there's an application for Android
- DAVDroid, which is being developed as opensource. That's why I want to focus on solving problems CalDAV and
CardDAV in TDE.
I also don't sync my phone or any other device for the same reasons Tim explained in details. But I think it would be a good addition (perhaps a -must have- one these days) to TDE since most of the general users would surely use it. If we identify a proper way forward (required protocols and interfaces) we could look at integrating them into TDE. Cheers Michele
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
On 2015/12/04 03:47 AM, Slávek Banko wrote:
I also don't sync my phone or any other device for the same reasons Tim explained in details. But I think it would be a good addition (perhaps a -must have- one these days) to TDE since most of the general users would surely use it. If we identify a proper way forward (required protocols and interfaces) we could look at integrating them into TDE. Cheers Michele
Michele Calgaro wrote:
If we identify a proper way forward (required protocols and interfaces) w= e could look at integrating them into TDE.
This could help understand what is the scope (at least for me)
https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201836827-How-do-I-move-contacts...
Jolla and N9 support the MTP as well as Android AFAIK.
As I stated before I have lost track of all this around 2010, but it won't be hard to catch up.
I think it would be possible to implement support in TDEPIM for the syncevolution engine. MTP is working for me at the moment, but of course it is not usable for contacts, events etc.
It would be really great to have this in TDE
Thanks in advance
regards
On Saturday 05 of December 2015 15:11:58 deloptes wrote:
Michele Calgaro wrote:
If we identify a proper way forward (required protocols and interfaces) w= e could look at integrating them into TDE.
This could help understand what is the scope (at least for me)
https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201836827-How-do-I-move-contact s-to-Jolla-
Jolla and N9 support the MTP as well as Android AFAIK.
As I stated before I have lost track of all this around 2010, but it won't be hard to catch up.
I think it would be possible to implement support in TDEPIM for the syncevolution engine. MTP is working for me at the moment, but of course it is not usable for contacts, events etc.
It would be really great to have this in TDE
Thanks in advance
regards
According to information about Jolla - also can use CalDAV and CardDAV protocol. Therefore, it once again seems to be the most appropriate way to use CalDAV and CardDAV. There are various server sides, which also offers CalDAV and CardDAV. Already mentioned was SOGo and ownCloud. Others are Horde, eGroupware, Zimbra, Kerio Connect, DavMail (gateway to MS Exchange)...
Nowadays I find it more convenient to deal with synchronization to the server instead of a "local synchronization with computer."
Slávek Banko wrote:
Nowadays I find it more convenient to deal with synchronization to the server instead of a "local synchronization with computer."
Slavek I got your point, I hope you get mine as well. Just as you prefer sync up with a server, I prefer sync up with the PC.
Your point is valid one and I do not think that our views contradict in some way.
And yes it states it supports CalDAV/CardDAV, but I almost never use the wireless or data access on my phone. I would prefer old fashion USB cable or bluetooth also for the security reasons the gents mentioned above.
AFAIR syncevolution supports CalDAV/CardDAV as well, so wouldn't it be better to just connect TDEPIM with syncevolution and let all the rest to their support team?
I'm not advocating for syncevolution, but I'm not aware of any other engine supporting SyncML with USB/Bluetooth.
I'm not sure, but I think we could extend kitchensync and let it use whatever we offer in TDEPIM to use syncevo engine and this might be the less effort path - but honestly I'm too far from being sure as I barely know the status of TDEPIM and syncevolution ATM. Where is the CalDEV/CardDEV part Timothy and you mentioned? What is the git location?
regards
Hi, I've not heard anything from you on what to do with the TDEPIM. I hope I have not insulted anyone.
I was thinking you could provide more insight as you definitely know the KDE/TDE internals much much better than I do.
Can you estimate the effort in each direction - example if I want to have a frontend for syncevolution - what needs to be done and how much time would it require for avg programming skills?
From what I know there are limited ressources, so perhaps I should write it myself, which means optimal time planning, so I just want to have an idea of the volume of the dev work - what can be reused, which modules affected etc - as much as possible :)
thanks in advance
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
On 2015/12/04 03:47 AM, Slávek Banko wrote:
I also don't sync my phone or any other device for the same reasons Tim explained in details. But I think it would be a good addition (perhaps a -must have- one these days) to TDE since most of the general users would surely use it. If we identify a proper way forward (required protocols and interfaces) we could look at integrating them into TDE. Cheers Michele
Timothy Pearson wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA224
Timothy Pearson wrote:
As I don't generally use / sync mobile devices for various security and privacy reasons I don't know what would need to be done to get this working correctly. What is your general use case?
Thanks for the reply!
My problem is (I don't know if use case is appropriate), that I was able to sync my phone and Palm III without issue until 2005. Palm broke and phone was replaced some time after and sync stopped working, because newer phones were using SyncML already.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying privacy - I want to have my events, notes, todos in sync on TDE and my phone - I don't see any problem if I sync up via USB cable between PC and phone.
And from my perspective I wouldn't ever want my private notes uploaded to the NSA/<other three letter agency>/Google/<other corporate busybody> over the baseband connection after they are on the phone. That's generally private information (raw unfiltered thoughts), similar to the contents of a personal diary, that in a civilised society only I should ever see. When anyone else starts reading your raw unfiltered thoughts, especially when those same entities can take action against you, it introduces severe chilling effects across the entire population that are long-term damaging to democratic societies.
tl;dr: I never put anything on a phone that hasn't been thoroughly thought through and is ready for public scrutiny. It's an old policy, and one that has unfortunately been proven correct over the years. Now Microsoft is even snooping through everyone's personal files looking for who knows what to make money.
Here I agree with you. This is why I do not use Microsoft, Apple or Google devices and services.
Regarding the need to sync up information it is pretty clear. I want to have same set of data (Contacts, Notes etc) on my devices and be able to modify on one single place.
So I am looking for a way to sync up few devices. Tablet, 2xPhones, TDE etc. What should be synced is the trivial once (cal, event, address, todo, notes) and possibly all the rest possible to be synced via syncML (images, mp3 etc - but this is nice to have - I'm sure it will work as the syncml library is pretty good - we just miss an interface in TDE for it).
I am unfamiliar with syncML. Do any of these phones / sync solutions use a standard interface (similar to CalDAV, CardDAV, etc.) or are they all proprietary / device class specific APIs?
Perhaps my knowledge is outdated, but still I can not get the contacts etc between the N9 and TDE and I would love to.
I think the discussion is pretty useful. I'll jump down to the mail from Slavek.
regards
I just looked into the syncevolution code. It has a gtk based UI and the backends. I think the easiest way would be to write a tde backend and use the gtk UI by opensync. This also means that the functionality will go into the syncevolution project. Originally I was thinking one could integrate the syncevolution into the existing tde, but from what I see it would be much easier to provide an option for sync with tde from syncevolution.
Do you know if it is possible to write KPart for gtk application?
Thanks
regards
-
deloptes -
Michele Calgaro -
Slávek Banko -
Timothy Pearson