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KDE vs. Trinity: Is One Really Better?
by Darrell Anderson 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-better-… I always read Bruce's writings with a proverbial grain of salt. He tends toward sensationalism and likes to play a game of creating rifts like he did in this article. His journalism tends toward what used to be called muckraking. When he writes in that mode I remind myself that everything is his opinion only and subjective. Everybody has an opinion and a poop chute. Both often stink. :) Nothing he wrote requires or demands a public response. He has his opinion and we should let that be. So much for that. I am concerned about his reports of instability. We should receive such comments seriously. I hope he filed bug reports or contacted somebody on the development team. Even if he didn't this kind of publicity dictates that quality assurance must be a priority over release schedules. That means a lot of usability testing and not just pumping out code and packages. I hope everybody here receives his article in a constructive manner. :) Darrell

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November Meeting ACTION LIST
by Robert Xu 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

Oh, come on, I needed a different name to call this :) I threw up this list also on Etherpad so that we can mark done/not-done/etc. And reevaluate next month. http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/26 It's also on email if you can't access it; see below. =========================================================================================================================================================================== #trinity-desktop-meeting: Trinity Desktop Environment - November Developer Meeting - please have http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/15 open so you can follow along =========================================================================================================================================================================== Meeting started by MutantTurkey at 16:39:33 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/lincomlinux/MeetBot/trinity-desktop-meeting/2011/t… Meeting summary --------------- * Roadmap (MutantTurkey, 17:04:42) * LINK: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/3_5_14_Roadmap (MutantTurkey, 17:05:33) * LINK: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/3_5_14_Roadmap (MutantTurkey, 17:06:21) * all bugs should be reported and with patches for 3.5.13 in the bug tracker or on ML (MutantTurkey, 17:07:36) * darrell will continue to help testing on slackware, this will help eliminate bugs. (MutantTurkey, 17:09:09) * Packagers (MutantTurkey, 17:09:37) * Because of the migration to git, we will all need to rework our build specs (MutantTurkey, 17:10:33) * Packagers will have 1 week to package binaries. (MutantTurkey, 17:11:05) * HELP: waiting for Ark devels to be ready, then Piki will go ahead and make packages (MutantTurkey, 17:12:45) * darrell wants to have improved wiki regarding building packages (MutantTurkey, 17:13:07) * Darrell is also close to having packages ready for slack. (MutantTurkey, 17:13:16) * MutantTurkey has made Archlinux package available in the AUR. (MutantTurkey, 17:15:52) * Dealing With Damage Control (MutantTurkey, 17:16:31) * this is NOT us vsthem (MutantTurkey, 17:18:16) * LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/22 (MutantTurkey, 17:18:22) * ACTION: continue to improve FAQ page and then upload it to the website (MutantTurkey, 17:18:44) * LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/24 (MutantTurkey, 17:18:56) * Ignore martin and his bandits who seek to undermine trinity (MutantTurkey, 17:20:50) * ACTION: Add a kde4 vs trinity section to FAQ, explain alternatives (MutantTurkey, 17:21:38) * LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/24 (MutantTurkey, 17:21:49) * ACTION: rzs19 will continue to work on BLUEZ (MutantTurkey, 17:23:12) * Release Goals (MutantTurkey, 17:24:10) * main goals are; Bug squashing, Hald replacement, CMake conversion progress, (MutantTurkey, 17:25:08) * secondary goals include bluetooth and Qt4 conversion (MutantTurkey, 17:26:13) * ACTION: samelian is working on a Upower interface (MutantTurkey, 17:27:14) * ACTION: reduce papercut bugs (MutantTurkey, 17:27:21) * ACTION: fix all high priority bugs (MutantTurkey, 17:28:20) * kdebindings is a less important goal current (MutantTurkey, 17:29:35) * massive KDE to TDE renaming is also occuring, this means kwin is twin and kdebase is tdebase, etc. (MutantTurkey, 17:29:54) * ACTION: remove all kde references (MutantTurkey, 17:30:11) * ACTION: merge kdebindings patches into git. (MutantTurkey, 17:30:40) * LINK: http://git.trinitydesktop.org/cgit (MutantTurkey, 17:30:51) * Binary Compat Issue (MutantTurkey, 17:32:15) * LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/24 (MutantTurkey, 17:33:28) * Please read the wiki page regarding binary compatability. (MutantTurkey, 17:33:39) * IDEA: go right to 3.6 and break compat (MutantTurkey, 17:35:10) * CMake Etherpad needs to be recreated (MutantTurkey, 17:37:24) * our cmake progress tracker disappeared when etherpad crashed, someone needs to recreate this checklist (MutantTurkey, 17:37:57) * ACTION: recreate checklist (MutantTurkey, 17:38:02) * Migration to Git (MutantTurkey, 17:38:24) * we are currently migrating to git (MutantTurkey, 17:39:09) * this will take until the beginning of december (MutantTurkey, 17:39:27) * ACTION: create documenation regarding git for developers and packagers (MutantTurkey, 17:39:42) * LINK: http://trinitydesktop.org/cgit/ (MutantTurkey, 17:39:53) * Git is better than SVN for our needs, it will help keep things working more consistantly (MutantTurkey, 17:40:57) * we will no longer be relying upon kde.org's SVN (MutantTurkey, 17:41:08) * this will open up the tree to other developers interested in getting involved (MutantTurkey, 17:41:16) * Website Improvements (MutantTurkey, 17:42:48) * create a FAQ page (MutantTurkey, 17:43:16) * ACTION: send in screenshots (MutantTurkey, 17:43:26) * increase wiki integration (MutantTurkey, 17:44:13) * ACTION: remove forum (MutantTurkey, 17:44:26) * ACTION: have darrell audit our website (MutantTurkey, 17:45:21) * ACTION: review site and make sure it is fufilling our needs (MutantTurkey, 17:45:33) * website is already simple php however, I wrote it. (MutantTurkey, 17:45:42) * IDEA: add website to our Git tree. (MutantTurkey, 17:45:50) * ACTION: everyone send ideas to for website to ML (MutantTurkey, 17:46:39) * artwork (MutantTurkey, 17:47:35) * Strangelv is our ideas guy for artwork/marketing (MutantTurkey, 17:48:13) * ACTION: create new artwork for 3.5.14 (MutantTurkey, 17:49:40) * look through kde-looks to get info (MutantTurkey, 17:49:46) * ACTION: have Strangelv look at making a mascot (MutantTurkey, 17:49:58) * IDEA: use a Clover or another 3 sided figure as mascot (maybe a trident?) (MutantTurkey, 17:50:16) * Strangelv put together a bisic idea of a prototype (MutantTurkey, 17:50:44) * create a nice 30 second promo about trinity (MutantTurkey, 17:51:12) * IDEA: have a video of people talking about how they use trinity (MutantTurkey, 17:51:55) * slap MutantTurkey for being an idiot (MutantTurkey, 17:52:25) * version numbers (MutantTurkey, 17:52:43) * IDEA: use R14.0.0 as next release (MutantTurkey, 17:53:38) * IDEA: what about 4.0 or 3.6? (MutantTurkey, 17:54:36) * AGREED: R14.0.0 is good (MutantTurkey, 17:55:29) * ACTION: we need a clear explination for this (MutantTurkey, 17:55:47) * AGREED: we are not going to use an ubuntu-like date system (MutantTurkey, 17:56:59) * AGREED: we cannot use anything with a 4. (MutantTurkey, 17:57:34) * ACTION: create a clear explaination AND a wiki page regarding our policy. (MutantTurkey, 17:58:23) * the remaining 0.0's can be used for SRUs and bugfix releases (MutantTurkey, 17:59:12) * IDEA: major,bugfix,securitypatches (MutantTurkey, 17:59:38) * AGREED: R14 it is (MutantTurkey, 18:06:58) * closing remarks (MutantTurkey, 18:07:51) * thank you everyone for showing up! (MutantTurkey, 18:08:18) * we will be conducting monthly meetings so see you in december (MutantTurkey, 18:08:36) Meeting ended at 18:11:07 UTC. Action Items ------------ * continue to improve FAQ page and then upload it to the website * Add a kde4 vs trinity section to FAQ, explain alternatives * rzs19 will continue to work on BLUEZ * samelian is working on a Upower interface * reduce papercut bugs * fix all high priority bugs * remove all kde references * merge kdebindings patches into git. * recreate checklist * create documenation regarding git for developers and packagers * send in screenshots * remove forum * have darrell audit our website * review site and make sure it is fufilling our needs * everyone send ideas to for website to ML * create new artwork for 3.5.14 * have Strangelv look at making a mascot * we need a clear explination for this * create a clear explaination AND a wiki page regarding our policy. Action Items, by person ----------------------- * darrell * have darrell audit our website * rzs19 * rzs19 will continue to work on BLUEZ * samelian * samelian is working on a Upower interface * Strangelv * have Strangelv look at making a mascot * **UNASSIGNED** * continue to improve FAQ page and then upload it to the website * Add a kde4 vs trinity section to FAQ, explain alternatives * reduce papercut bugs * fix all high priority bugs * remove all kde references * merge kdebindings patches into git. * recreate checklist * create documenation regarding git for developers and packagers * send in screenshots * remove forum * review site and make sure it is fufilling our needs * everyone send ideas to for website to ML * create new artwork for 3.5.14 * we need a clear explination for this * create a clear explaination AND a wiki page regarding our policy. People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * MutantTurkey (251) * kb9vqf-offsite (63) * darrell (61) * Z_God (59) * Strangelv (50) * Xu_R|School (19) * Piki (13) * rzs19 (10) * samelian (9) * msb (6) * hoernerfranz (4) * [lindaemon] (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- later daze. :: Robert Xu :: rxu.lincomlinux.org :: protocol.by/rxu

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trinity version
by Werner Joss 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

hello all, I just want to add some thoughts on the version discussion that just happened on IRC. (I admit I'm just too slow in thinking an writing simultaneously in a foreign language, so I could not express much in there :) so here goes: the outcome of the discussion, naming the next version R14 or R14.0, seems not very attractive nor logic to me, it makes people IMHO think there have been 14 _major_ releases before. looks like the same versionitis that firefox, chrome or others use nowadays, in short: pretending huge changes happening every 6 months or so. not good. of course, there was also agreement that nothing with 4.x should be used, for obvious reasons ;-) same goes for 5.x, though. date based release numbers resemble too much to *buntu, not a good idea, too, agreed. so why not start over with 3.6 ? this would IMO be a clear sign for all users who still like kde 3.5.x, that this project stands in a direct relationship to kde 3.5, but at the same time, is _not_ just an incremental continuation like 3.5.13, but rather a new start, well based on 3.5, but bringing new technology and features as well, basically different from the kde4 approach, however. just my 0.02 € werner

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Official Mailing Lists
by Darrell Anderson 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

At our web site page for joining mailing lists, we have a section titled "Mailing List Etiquette." Should we expand that section with a short policy statement about expected attitudes? I don't want to discourage healthy debates and discussions, which always will include a wide range of opinions, but if we post a policy we establish nominal knowable boundaries and basic CYA. Perhaps in list messages we could add a reminder sentence in the footer with something to the effect about thinking positively and not to attack the goals of other projects? Just thinking out loud with respect to our recent "damage control" discussion... Darrell

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IRC Client
by Darrell Anderson 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

Not directly related to development but almost. :) Quite a few IRC clients available with Trinity. Recommendations? Darrell

4 4

[qt3] Qt3 licenses and configure
by Laurent Dard 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

I think that in Qt, the irritating question about licenses, that appears when executing 'configure', must be removed. So I suggest to change it. I saw that other things should be modified as well: README* INSTALL FAQ... And a lot of references to trolltech should be converted into references to Trinity: qt-bugs(a)trolltech.com --> http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/ etc. I need a clarification about licenses. According to /usr/share/doc/libqt3-mt/copyright (Trinity version): "Qt 3.3 is triple licensed under the QPL, GPL 2 and GPL 3." But Trinity web site says: "any Qt3 version released by this project is licensed under the GPL only" http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Documentation/Releases_3_5_13 Does it means there is a bug with 'THE Q PUBLIC LICENSE' which should be removed? And about modules, may the lines (225-227) MODULES="styles tools kernel widgets dialogs iconview workspace inputmethod" [ "$PLATFORM_QWS" = "yes" ] && [ "$Products" = "qt-professional" ] && MODULES="$MODULES network" [ "$Products" != "qt-professional" ] && MODULES="$MODULES network canvas table xml opengl sql" be replaced by MODULES="styles tools kernel widgets dialogs iconview workspace \ inputmethod network canvas table xml opengl sql" without breaking things? A third question: will Trinity Qt support Mac and QWS? I reported a bug: http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=628 with a patch for the 'configure' file, to be reviewed: http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/attachment.cgi?id=128 * Free edition GPL 2 & 3 only (no QPL) * Interactive part about licenses removed * Defined modules: "styles tools kernel widgets dialogs iconview workspace inputmethod network canvas table xml opengl sql" -- Laurent Dard

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TDE Environment Variables
by Darrell Anderson 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

I was browsing the patches list and noticed some patches a while ago that said "Use TDE_FULL_SESSION instead of KDE_FULL_SESSION." What environment variables are now changed from KDE? Is that the only one or have others? Which KDE environment variables remain the same in TDE? Darrell

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Web Site Audit
by Darrell Anderson 16 Nov '11

16 Nov '11

I was asked to audit the Trinity web site and provide suggestions to list members. My comments are nothing formal or official and I don't have the last word. I also am not the webmaster. Hopefully my observations help improve the web site and hence, perception of the Trinity community. Everything I offer here is intended to be constructive! I like gray and light colored backgrounds. Great for readability. Dark backgrounds are challenging for many people to read. Gray is a good neutral color. In color schemes gray also represents dignity. =================================================== Consolidate navigation links. * Provide only one top level nav bar. Currently there are two and the smaller one is easy not to notice. * Rename the "Support" link to "Contact and Support." * Remove the "Screenshots" link from the nav bar (Will move the link to the main page body.). * Create a new link named "Get Trinity." * Move the "Development" link to the main nav bar. * Rename the "Development" link to "Developers." * Move the "News" link to the main nav bar. * Move the "Wiki" link to the main nav bar. * Combine the "Installation" and "Release Downloads" pages into "Get Trinity." * Move the "Contributors" page text to the "About" page. Refer to the etherpad draft, bottom. * Move the "Donate" link link to the "Contacts and Support" page. * Move the "Bugs" link to the "Contacts and Support" page. * Move the "Mailing Lists" link and page to the "Contacts and Support" page. * Move the "Documentation" link to the "Developers" page. * Move the "RFEs" link to the "Developers" page. * Move the "GIT" link to the "Developers" page. * Move the "Nightly Builds" and "Patches" links to the "Developers" page. * Move the "Related Projects" link to the "Developers" page. * Delete the "Community Content" link. (Part of the wiki.) =================================================== Top Level Nav Bar, all pages: Home About Get Trinity News Contact and Support Developers Wiki Make the link text larger. Consider repeating the top level nav bar at the bottom of every page. Visitors dislike scrolling back to the top of a page. Layout of the bottom nav bar can be different. =================================================== Some Page Cleanup: * Center the top level nav bar. * Use left-justified margins for text but center the layout on each page with wide outside margins. * On the main page, top of page, add an introduction/welcome statement. * On the main page, leave the most recent News item from the News page as is, after the intro statement. * On the main page, move the "Help Wanted!" ad to the "Developers" page. * On the main page, move the "Official Trinity Binaries" section to the "Get Trinity" page. * Main page should include new links, off to either side: "Get Trinity" (Yes, duplicates the "Get Trinity" link.). "Release Notes" (Same link as current.). "Screenshots" (Link removed from main nav bar and restored here.). * A new About page with FAQ is available for review in etherpad. * Need a few more screenshots. * The screenshot thumbnails should be a tad larger. * Screenshots should highlight good features of Trinity, not be casual screenshots. * Use links in the thumbnails to allow people to view a full screen size of the picture. * Use the new logo when approved by the team. * Refrain from using small or tiny text on any page. Leave fonts at default size. Let users adjust font sizes. =================================================== New page: * In the "Get Trinity" page, add a link to an Applications page providing descriptions of all apps in the repository. * New Applications page: divide the new page into sections based on the T-Menu. For the new Applications page, we can grab content from the old KDE 3 web site, but other apps in the repository will need to be written new. Descriptions need not be long and exhaustive. A paragraph or two and one or two screen shots will be adequate. We need this page very much. I agree to help. =================================================== At this point pages will need to be reviewed after rearranging. Perhaps a mockup site should be used until ready. I agree to help review mockups and changes. Considering the public attention Trinity has been receiving of late, I hope we move quickly to revamp the web site. I hope this helps! Darrell

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Slackware 13.1 Binary Packages
by Darrell Anderson 15 Nov '11

15 Nov '11

My packages for Slackware 13.1 are ready --- except for one major bug: KDM. I can't login using the Trinity KDM. At least one other Slackware/Trinity user has confirmed this behavior. I am uncomfortable uploading packages when I know KDM is broken. Yes, Slackware users can use the KDE 4 KDM, which is part of the stock Slackware, but that is...icky. :( I know everybody is busy but if I can get help with a patch then I would feel much better. If the patch succeeds then I'll submit the bug report to ensure SVN/GIT gets updated. I'm fairly certain the problem is authentication. When I login all I see is a "Login failed" message. Slackware does not use PAM. Slackware supports PolicyKit but using that layer is not required by users. Indeed, the KDE 4 KDM, which is part of the stock Slackware, is not built or dependent upon PolicyKit. I can login with the KDE 4 KDM just fine. As a note, I built KDE 3.5.10 for Slackware 13.1 and KDM there works fine. I built kdebase 3.5.13 with the WITH_PAM=OFF option. No change. Allowing root logins through KDM fails too, so the problem is unlikely to be file permissions. I also have tried enabling and disabling SAK. No change. Thanks! Darrell

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Last Reminder: Trinity Developer Meeting TODAY at 12PM EST
by Calvin Morrison 15 Nov '11

15 Nov '11

Hey all! one last reminder for the meeting, Which will take place at 12PM EST (approximately 45 minutes away) in #trinity-desktop-meeting @ irc.freenode.net Calvin Morrison

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