I hope i'll get more responces then usual. -_- If no one responds, a kitten will die.
I think trinity doesn't has much of a strategy. Here some ideas
---------------------------------------------- trinity would be split in to two parts
1.trinity proper This will be a relatively restricted set of important components of high quality. This will be a bit like other normal DE, like xfce and mate. For example, it will have the libs, kdesktop, kicker, tdm, konsole, amarok, kaffeine, dolphin, klipper etc... See restricted, important and high quality.
2. trinity extra apps Here goes everything else
trinity proper will be given priority in fixing bugs. Also, all of trinity proper would be properly renamed and moved out of opt. for example tqt becomes trinity libs, konsole becomes trinity terminal or something like that. See proper names, not kdename-trinity.
Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity proper to debian. And from there it would move up ubuntu. Trinity will get more exposure, more users and more bug fixes, including for trinity extra apps.
For the extra apps, users would use an extra repo like now. The names can stay "kdename-trinity" or be fully renamed. And the quality maters less. At some unspecified time in the future, apps from here will be moved to trinity proper.
--------------------------------
an other idea would be, to move the code to github Not for technical reasons. Many developers are already there. This will increase the probability that the project will get more exposure and devs.
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively restricted set of important components of high quality [and] will be given priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize your own work.
Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity proper to debian.
That would be great if it happened but don't count on it. Long before the systemd gang started trying to unsupport sysvinit in Debian, the Debian KDE gang basically forced KDE 3 out when it would have been so easy to keep it in. IMNSHO this was because they wanted to force Debian users to move to the inferior KDE 4. Fortunately Tim saved KDE 3 as Trinity and with other volunteers continues to improve it.
Neverthless I wish you luck.
--Mike
On Saturday 26 May 2018 02:04:41 Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively restricted set of important components of high quality [and] will be given priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize your own work.
Having a strategy with objectives is smarter then simply be a disorganized crowd doing stuff at random.
The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse. If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs. It needs a bit of polish, and to put forword the best parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018 schrieb wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com:
[...] The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse. If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs.
Well, yes, but ... devuan would like TDE, but TDE would have to be build within the devuan duild infrastructure. I thought, well, no big deal, fetch the git repo, push it to devuan build server and we'r done. Not so easy, as it turned out. Keeping the two repos in sync and mantain a seperate patchset for devuan cosmetics is challanging, at least for me.
It needs a bit of polish, and to put forword the best parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
There should at least be more screenshots in the screenshot section and a way to download themes, styles etc. tcontrol links to "themes.kde.org", but there are no TDE/KDE3 compatible themes any more, so a themes-section on the tde main site beside the "screenshots" would be a nice thing to have.
nik
On 05/25/2018 11:40 PM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018 schrieb wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com:
[...] The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse. If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs.
Well, yes, but ... devuan would like TDE, but TDE would have to be build within the devuan duild infrastructure. I thought, well, no big deal, fetch the git repo, push it to devuan build server and we'r done. Not so easy, as it turned out. Keeping the two repos in sync and mantain a seperate patchset for devuan cosmetics is challanging, at least for me.
Nik as you where writing your post there are Devuan people talking about including Trinity. Both could lighten their loads if they could talk and work together and I feel Trinity and Devuan where made for each other. Personally I feel we, us Linux users, need a anti-plasma kde-desktop and a anti-systemd debian operating system. We have to hold our ground. Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I feel debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
It needs a bit of polish, and to put forword the best parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
There should at least be more screenshots in the screenshot section and a way to download themes, styles etc. tcontrol links to "themes.kde.org", but there are no TDE/KDE3 compatible themes any more, so a themes-section on the tde main site beside the "screenshots" would be a nice thing to have.
It looked to me that the link is wrong in TDE, I'm not a Dev and have no idea where to look, but it seems to me a simple change in the link to kde.look would fix the problem. The kde3 stuff is still there and with a working link new stuff can be uploaded and downloaded too. As for themes and customizing a desktop, you can not beat kde3, nothing out there can touch it, not plasma, nothing. Both KDE and Neon are on Twitter showing off Plasma, but they have not showed me one thing that I can not do with kde3. Transparent themes, transparent konsole, etc. can all be done with kde3, I don't know if Timothy saw this day coming or not but he salvaged the real kde, the Award Winning Unix, Groupware Compliant desktop, simply the best desktop ever.
Cheers,
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I feel debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
I think systemd went in before that, so not sure if it changed something.
I also have the feeling that desktop developers are going the M$ way. I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The question is what is doing exactly.
regards
On 05/26/2018 04:09 AM, deloptes wrote:
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I feel debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
I think systemd went in before that, so not sure if it changed something.
It was there, but not implemented yet, only logind in Wheezy.
Did you follow his death? Very mysterious, Ian was running around saying someone was trying to kill him and then after his death and a long, long wait the San Francisco Police say he killed himself!?! It makes no sense to me.
I also have the feeling that desktop developers are going the M$ way. I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The question is what is doing exactly.
I'm thinking it was paid for and created by Microsoft Linux Developers, known as Neo-Linux Developers and they hate Linux, I know this because I was inside Microsoft and inside the Neo-Linux forum, which now seems to have been been removed because of the stupid and incriminating things that are said in the forum. Even Pottering admitted on the Debian mailing list saying he didn't know everything systemd is capable of doing. Between Plasma, Systemd and who knows what else, because this is Big Money deep shit, Linux is dead as we know it and is what Microsoft has wanted. And Microsoft will have their way unless we have developers who can not be bought by shiny new objects or money and they are few because people have excuses for doing the wrong thing and will use them, saying they did it for the family or some such thing to keep themselves going. When big money gets thrown at free and open source software then the users of the software become less than the object the software is being created for and the software may become something sinister.
Microsoft will treat you like a Good ol'boy, a rock star if you join them, much the same as you would be treated if you where to join the KKK.
Cheers,
On Saturday 26 May 2018 23:10:34 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 05/26/2018 04:09 AM, deloptes wrote:
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
Since the death of Ian, the founder of Debian, I feel debian is no longer working for Linux Users but for other $ources.
I think systemd went in before that, so not sure if it changed something.
It was there, but not implemented yet, only logind in Wheezy.
Did you follow his death? Very mysterious, Ian was running around saying someone was trying to kill him and then after his death and a long, long wait the San Francisco Police say he killed himself!?! It makes no sense to me.
I also have the feeling that desktop developers are going the M$ way. I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The question is what is doing exactly.
I'm thinking it was paid for and created by Microsoft Linux Developers, known as Neo-Linux Developers and they hate Linux, I know this because I was inside Microsoft and inside the Neo-Linux forum, which now seems to have been been removed because of the stupid and incriminating things that are said in the forum. Even Pottering admitted on the Debian mailing list saying he didn't know everything systemd is capable of doing. Between Plasma, Systemd and who knows what else, because this is Big Money deep shit, Linux is dead as we know it and is what Microsoft has wanted. And Microsoft will have their way unless we have developers who can not be bought by shiny new objects or money and they are few because people have excuses for doing the wrong thing and will use them, saying they did it for the family or some such thing to keep themselves going. When big money gets thrown at free and open source software then the users of the software become less than the object the software is being created for and the software may become something sinister.
Microsoft will treat you like a Good ol'boy, a rock star if you join them, much the same as you would be treated if you where to join the KKK.
Cheers,
If i remember correctly, Ian had left debian a long time ago.
Closer to the truth: Red Hat pushed systemd. Pottering is an employee of red hat. Exactly why Red hat took that decision doesn't matter. Maybe NIH, maybe internal politics, maybe something else. Because of red hat's dominant position, the other distros went along with it. Pulseaudio also comes from red hat, and ended up dominating for the same reason.
Jimmy Johnson wrote:
It was there, but not implemented yet, only logind in Wheezy.
Did you follow his death? Very mysterious, Ian was running around saying someone was trying to kill him and then after his death and a long, long wait the San Francisco Police say he killed himself!?! It makes no sense to me.
Yes, indeed - it was a bit spooky - we'll never know.
I also have the feeling that desktop developers are going the M$ way. I made a compromise and use old init, but systemd is still here. The question is what is doing exactly.
I'm thinking it was paid for and created by Microsoft Linux Developers, known as Neo-Linux Developers and they hate Linux, I know this because I was inside Microsoft and inside the Neo-Linux forum, which now seems to have been been removed because of the stupid and incriminating things that are said in the forum. Even Pottering admitted on the Debian mailing list saying he didn't know everything systemd is capable of doing. Between Plasma, Systemd and who knows what else, because this is Big Money deep shit, Linux is dead as we know it and is what Microsoft has wanted. And Microsoft will have their way unless we have developers who can not be bought by shiny new objects or money and they are few because people have excuses for doing the wrong thing and will use them, saying they did it for the family or some such thing to keep themselves going. When big money gets thrown at free and open source software then the users of the software become less than the object the software is being created for and the software may become something sinister.
Microsoft will treat you like a Good ol'boy, a rock star if you join them, much the same as you would be treated if you where to join the KKK.
Well might be indeed true - the last 10-15years are mostly a waste - not only in terms of software. Things changed and not for good - worst is youth (s.c. millenia) totally devastated. Very sad. Lets hope it will end or change for good soon.
On Saturday 26 May 2018 08:40:41 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Samstag, 26. Mai 2018 schrieb wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com:
[...] The core idea, is to offer something that distros will not refuse. If trinity gets in distros, then it gets more exposure and more devs.
Well, yes, but ... devuan would like TDE, but TDE would have to be build within the devuan duild infrastructure. I thought, well, no big deal, fetch the git repo, push it to devuan build server and we'r done. Not so easy, as it turned out. Keeping the two repos in sync and mantain a seperate patchset for devuan cosmetics is challanging, at least for me.
All distros have annoying little differences. It's a disease, it's called "not invented here" NIH.
It needs a bit of polish, and to put forword the best parts.
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
There should at least be more screenshots in the screenshot section and a way to download themes, styles etc. tcontrol links to "themes.kde.org", but there are no TDE/KDE3 compatible themes any more, so a themes-section on the tde main site beside the "screenshots" would be a nice thing to have.
nik
On Saturday 26 May 2018 09:13:32 deloptes wrote:
wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
the whole thing, makes me think of the joke about the UI designed by a bunch kernel developers.
Don't dare to insult the UI - it is sacred!
Man, honestly, I think you are too young - study history first.
regards
You read it too literally It was a metaphor to the way you handled certain aspects of the project. Like not renaming and shoving stuff in opt. And just having one big mess in the repos.
wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
You read it too literally It was a metaphor to the way you handled certain aspects of the project. Like not renaming and shoving stuff in opt. And just having one big mess in the repos.
yes, nothing is perfect, but you are not forced to do anything - I just wonder what is your motivation?
IMO it works pretty well for what it is and I am happy to have it. You do not understand how much effort is going in having.
For me when I joined the community it was also not clear how small the team is. For the size it is excellent job. Of course things can be better, but this is our world, we do what we can. I have a lot of respect toward the team.
Have more respect, please!
regards
On Saturday 26 May 2018 21:41:09 deloptes wrote:
wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
You read it too literally It was a metaphor to the way you handled certain aspects of the project. Like not renaming and shoving stuff in opt. And just having one big mess in the repos.
yes, nothing is perfect, but you are not forced to do anything - I just wonder what is your motivation?
Do you want more devs or not?
On 05/25/2018 05:04 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively restricted set of important components of high quality [and] will be given priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize your own work.
Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity proper to debian.
Push Trinity into Debian is a crappy idea, all they would do is sew in systemd, that's all upstream is getting paid to care about.
That would be great if it happened but don't count on it. Long before the systemd gang started trying to unsupport sysvinit in Debian, the Debian KDE gang basically forced KDE 3 out when it would have been so easy to keep it in. IMNSHO this was because they wanted to force Debian users to move to the inferior KDE 4. Fortunately Tim saved KDE 3 as Trinity and with other volunteers continues to improve it.
Neverthless I wish you luck.
--Mike
Devuan is looking at Trinity as an alternative to XFCE and the direction Trinity should be going. Devuan is as a alterative to the Blob, more and more people are looking for an alternative and they will be looking at Trinity too. Plasma suks and Systemd suks, they are married to each other.
Cheers,
On Saturday 26 May 2018 05:12:28 Jimmy Johnson wrote:
On 05/25/2018 05:04 PM, Mike Bird wrote:
On Fri May 25 2018 15:48:55 wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
trinity proper [...] will be a relatively restricted set of important components of high quality [and] will be given priority in fixing bugs.
Trinity is a volunteer effort. You're welcome to prioritize your own work.
Then, an attempt would be made, to push trinity proper to debian.
Push Trinity into Debian is a crappy idea, all they would do is sew in systemd, that's all upstream is getting paid to care about.
That would be great if it happened but don't count on it. Long before the systemd gang started trying to unsupport sysvinit in Debian, the Debian KDE gang basically forced KDE 3 out when it would have been so easy to keep it in. IMNSHO this was because they wanted to force Debian users to move to the inferior KDE 4. Fortunately Tim saved KDE 3 as Trinity and with other volunteers continues to improve it.
Neverthless I wish you luck.
--Mike
Devuan is looking at Trinity as an alternative to XFCE and the direction Trinity should be going. Devuan is as a alterative to the Blob, more and more people are looking for an alternative and they will be looking at Trinity too. Plasma suks and Systemd suks, they are married to each other.
Cheers,
-_- I should troll you both with systemd.... But i will not....
On 05/25/2018 08:33 PM, wofgdkncxojef@gmail.com wrote:
-_- I should troll you both with systemd.... But i will not....
I'll be looking for you.
Cheers,
-
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Jimmy Johnson -
Mike Bird -
wofgdkncxojef＠gmail.com