Since I'm trying to come up with an idea for new [a little more modern, and not looking like it was made in 2003 (no offense to creator intended)] Trinity website I'd like some help. What I need is a logo, a symbol for Trinity. And one that is not religious (since the name was understood as a religious one once). The current logo is a no-no IMO since it's a too big reference to the KDE logo (gears) and it just kde3.5 logo with a "T" instead of "K". It should be something simple and easy to remember. I know I might be demanding too much, but I think it's a good idea to come up with something together.
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011, L0ner sh4dou wrote:
Since I'm trying to come up with an idea for new [a little more modern, and not looking like it was made in 2003 (no offense to creator intended)] Trinity website I'd like some help. What I need is a logo, a symbol for Trinity. And one that is not religious (since the name was understood as a religious one once). The current logo is a no-no IMO since it's a too big reference to the KDE logo (gears) and it just kde3.5 logo with a "T" instead of "K". It should be something simple and easy to remember.
<wry humor> "Trinity Site is where the first atomic bomb was tested at 5:29:45 a.m. Mountain War Time on July 16, 1945."
... maybe a Large T overlaying a mushroom cloud. ... signifying 'blowing up' the New Think in desktop environments. <wry humor/>
Jonesy
Since I'm trying to come up with an idea for new [a little more modern, and not looking like it was made in 2003 (no offense to creator intended)] Trinity website I'd like some help. What I need is a logo, a symbol for Trinity. And one that is not religious
In my random googling, there is an old symbol that has more of a "3" connotation, and not so much of a religious one. Which I find appealing in the sense of "timelessness". It's not entirely free of negative connotations but perhaps worth considering.
http://paulraspa.wordpress.com/tag/triskele/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion
One broader throught is to lessen the emphasis on KDE, in favor of the broader notion of the number 3.
- Nigel
Hi all,
I rather like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triskele-Symbol1.svg
With a little bit of work it could be a rather nice logo.
Best regards
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Nigel Stewart nigels.com@gmail.comwrote:
Since I'm trying to come up with an idea for new [a little more
modern, and not looking like it was made in 2003 (no offense to creator intended)] Trinity website I'd like some help. What I need is a logo, a symbol for Trinity. And one that is not religious
In my random googling, there is an old symbol that has more of a "3" connotation, and not so much of a religious one. Which I find appealing in the sense of "timelessness". It's not entirely free of negative connotations but perhaps worth considering.
http://paulraspa.wordpress.**com/tag/triskele/http://paulraspa.wordpress.com/tag/triskele/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Triskelionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion
One broader throught is to lessen the emphasis on KDE, in favor of the broader notion of the number 3.
- Nigel
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2011/12/15 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com:
Hi all,
I rather like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triskele-Symbol1.svg
With a little bit of work it could be a rather nice logo.
Best regards
+1, yet triskelion seems to be religious too (argh!, could some1 verify?). Yet it seems so unknown to most that I think it will do.
2011/12/15 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com
Also, might it perhaps be of benefit to choose colours different from those favoured by the KDE project (even if it's just a different blue, like navy or teal)?
I was thinking about a little more dark blue. Anyway I had some idea for text-logo: http://db.tt/cpKGVg61 This is the shade of blue i was thinking about.
2011/12/15 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com
Hmmm . . . Maybe something involving a triangle, to emphasise the whole "three" notion (which would hopefully connect the word "trinity" back to something other than religion)?
I don't think that triangle would do. You know, whole illuminati and eye that sees thing. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence
If there's no great hurry, I may try my hand at sketching something over the next few days . . .
Your sketches will be more than welcome. And there is no hurry, since I need to gather my ideas for whole structure of website, not only for layout.
2011/12/15 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com:
2011/12/15 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com:
Hi all,
I rather like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triskele-Symbol1.svg
With a little bit of work it could be a rather nice logo.
Best regards
+1, yet triskelion seems to be religious too (argh!, could some1 verify?). Yet it seems so unknown to most that I think it will do.
Just an idea for triskele. To prevent this thing from being understood as a religious one or nazi-something (since triskele was used by nazis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion#Third_Reich_and_supremacist_uses) we could change the way in which whole thing "spins".
2011/12/15 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com:
2011/12/15 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com:
2011/12/15 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com:
Hi all,
I rather like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Triskele-Symbol1.svg
With a little bit of work it could be a rather nice logo.
Best regards
+1, yet triskelion seems to be religious too (argh!, could some1 verify?). Yet it seems so unknown to most that I think it will do.
Just an idea for triskele. To prevent this thing from being understood as a religious one or nazi-something (since triskele was used by nazis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskelion#Third_Reich_and_supremacist_uses) we could change the way in which whole thing "spins".
You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte sketches for trinity logo proposal. First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
First one reasembles too much the Reaper logo (http://www.reaper.fm/), but maybe it's only my impression. I don't think the second could be used since it's pretty much the same as logo of Trisquel linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisquel) [I stumbled on Trisquel by pure coincidence]
L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte sketches for trinity logo proposal. First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be designed without it.
Nicolas
2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr:
L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte sketches for trinity logo proposal. First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be designed without it.
Nicolas
If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, without it the space looks 'empty' to me.
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr:
L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte sketches for trinity logo proposal. First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be designed without it.
Nicolas
If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, without it the space looks 'empty' to me.
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I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal logo to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it actually :) But if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well tuned machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious one.
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Calvin
2011/12/15 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr:
L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte sketches for trinity logo proposal. First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be designed without it.
Nicolas
If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, without it the space looks 'empty' to me.
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I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal logo to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Same opinion here.
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it actually :) But if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well tuned machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious one.
Yes, but this gear is too strong reference to KDE, anyway we can have a gear-like tooths in the logo (like in second example).
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Only If I learn how to xD Anyway I'm more occupied by PKGBUILDs for arch ATM, so I will work on this after I finish those. This was to gather some ideas, since I want to create new webpage for trinity at some point (acutally second thing on my TO-DO list, after PKGBUILDs)
On 15 December 2011 18:01, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr:
L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte sketches for trinity logo proposal. First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be
designed
without it.
Nicolas
If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, without it the space looks 'empty' to me.
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I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal
logo
to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Same opinion here.
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it actually :)
But
if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well tuned machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious one.
Yes, but this gear is too strong reference to KDE, anyway we can have a gear-like tooths in the logo (like in second example).
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Only If I learn how to xD Anyway I'm more occupied by PKGBUILDs for arch ATM, so I will work on this after I finish those. This was to gather some ideas, since I want to create new webpage for trinity at some point (acutally second thing on my TO-DO list, after PKGBUILDs)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Aside from archlinux packages I'm also the defacto website designer, well sort of.
I developed the current website ( a vast improvement from the previous one ) and it's been quite careful.
We don't want anything to much, or to little, to complicated or to simple. I think improvments would be more warranted the this scenario.
Calvin Morrison
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 18:01, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr:
L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte sketches for trinity logo proposal. First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be designed without it.
Nicolas
If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, without it the space looks 'empty' to me.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal logo to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Same opinion here.
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it actually :) But if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well tuned machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious one.
Yes, but this gear is too strong reference to KDE, anyway we can have a gear-like tooths in the logo (like in second example).
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Only If I learn how to xD Anyway I'm more occupied by PKGBUILDs for arch ATM, so I will work on this after I finish those. This was to gather some ideas, since I want to create new webpage for trinity at some point (acutally second thing on my TO-DO list, after PKGBUILDs)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Aside from archlinux packages I'm also the defacto website designer, well sort of.
I developed the current website ( a vast improvement from the previous one ) and it's been quite careful.
We don't want anything to much, or to little, to complicated or to simple. I think improvments would be more warranted the this scenario.
I was thinking on relaying completely on the wiki system we use for whole site. It can be done. And I think we should add some sort of news system in which we will write what actually happens inside the project, so it don't seem dead. If we add ability to comment those news it will be like saying to users "we care about what you think!". User-frendliness. This can be done by using plugin for the wiki system. Generally the archlinux site is a great inspiration for me. It's simple, looks good and has everything you need.
On 15 December 2011 19:29, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 18:01, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr:
L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
> You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte > sketches for trinity logo proposal. > First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP > Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk
Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be designed without it.
Nicolas
If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, without it the space looks 'empty' to me.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal logo to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Same opinion here.
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it actually
:)
But if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well
tuned
machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious
one.
Yes, but this gear is too strong reference to KDE, anyway we can have a gear-like tooths in the logo (like in second example).
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Only If I learn how to xD Anyway I'm more occupied by PKGBUILDs for arch ATM, so I will work on this after I finish those. This was to gather some ideas, since I want to create new webpage for trinity at some point (acutally second thing on my TO-DO list, after PKGBUILDs)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Aside from archlinux packages I'm also the defacto website designer, well sort of.
I developed the current website ( a vast improvement from the previous
one )
and it's been quite careful.
We don't want anything to much, or to little, to complicated or to
simple.
I think improvments would be more warranted the this scenario.
I was thinking on relaying completely on the wiki system we use for whole site. It can be done. And I think we should add some sort of news system in which we will write what actually happens inside the project, so it don't seem dead. If we add ability to comment those news it will be like saying to users "we care about what you think!". User-frendliness. This can be done by using plugin for the wiki system. Generally the archlinux site is a great inspiration for me. It's simple, looks good and has everything you need.
Indeed it looks great and works well, though I think it is very complicated (it is hosted in their git repository so you can see)
I'd like to see some things.
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs into one page.
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
I think we are avoiding using any sort of databsases however and we want to make sure tihs all will render well on any web browser.
Calvin Morrison
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 19:29, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 18:01, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr: > L0ner sh4dou a écrit : > >> You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte >> sketches for trinity logo proposal. >> First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP >> Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk > > > Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be > designed > without it. > > Nicolas > If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, without it the space looks 'empty' to me.
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I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal logo to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Same opinion here.
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it actually :) But if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well tuned machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious one.
Yes, but this gear is too strong reference to KDE, anyway we can have a gear-like tooths in the logo (like in second example).
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Only If I learn how to xD Anyway I'm more occupied by PKGBUILDs for arch ATM, so I will work on this after I finish those. This was to gather some ideas, since I want to create new webpage for trinity at some point (acutally second thing on my TO-DO list, after PKGBUILDs)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Aside from archlinux packages I'm also the defacto website designer, well sort of.
I developed the current website ( a vast improvement from the previous one ) and it's been quite careful.
We don't want anything to much, or to little, to complicated or to simple. I think improvments would be more warranted the this scenario.
I was thinking on relaying completely on the wiki system we use for whole site. It can be done. And I think we should add some sort of news system in which we will write what actually happens inside the project, so it don't seem dead. If we add ability to comment those news it will be like saying to users "we care about what you think!". User-frendliness. This can be done by using plugin for the wiki system. Generally the archlinux site is a great inspiration for me. It's simple, looks good and has everything you need.
Indeed it looks great and works well, though I think it is very complicated (it is hosted in their git repository so you can see)
I'd like to see some things.
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs into one page.
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
I think we are avoiding using any sort of databsases however and we want to make sure tihs all will render well on any web browser.
Calvin Morrison
Well I can do some css magic. It will look good and render on modern browsers (forget about konqueror tho). Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages. As I said we could use the wiki system for everything. I'll try to make a draft after I finish pkgbuilds.
2011/12/16 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 19:29, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 18:01, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote: > > 2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr: > > L0ner sh4dou a écrit : > > > >> You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two litte > >> sketches for trinity logo proposal. > >> First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP > >> Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk > > > > > > Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be > > designed > > without it. > > > > Nicolas > > > If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of > Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, > without > it the space looks 'empty' to me. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net > For additional commands, e-mail: > trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net > Read list messsages on the Web archive: > http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ > Please remember not to top-post: > http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting >
I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal logo to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Same opinion here.
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it actually :) But if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well tuned machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious one.
Yes, but this gear is too strong reference to KDE, anyway we can have a gear-like tooths in the logo (like in second example).
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Only If I learn how to xD Anyway I'm more occupied by PKGBUILDs for arch ATM, so I will work on this after I finish those. This was to gather some ideas, since I want to create new webpage for trinity at some point (acutally second thing on my TO-DO list, after PKGBUILDs)
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Aside from archlinux packages I'm also the defacto website designer, well sort of.
I developed the current website ( a vast improvement from the previous one ) and it's been quite careful.
We don't want anything to much, or to little, to complicated or to simple. I think improvments would be more warranted the this scenario.
I was thinking on relaying completely on the wiki system we use for whole site. It can be done. And I think we should add some sort of news system in which we will write what actually happens inside the project, so it don't seem dead. If we add ability to comment those news it will be like saying to users "we care about what you think!". User-frendliness. This can be done by using plugin for the wiki system. Generally the archlinux site is a great inspiration for me. It's simple, looks good and has everything you need.
Indeed it looks great and works well, though I think it is very complicated (it is hosted in their git repository so you can see)
I'd like to see some things.
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs into one page.
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
I think we are avoiding using any sort of databsases however and we want to make sure tihs all will render well on any web browser.
Calvin Morrison
Well I can do some css magic. It will look good and render on modern browsers (forget about konqueror tho). Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages. As I said we could use the wiki system for everything. I'll try to make a draft after I finish pkgbuilds.
As for css magic, I did my tumblr page myself (http://bitdata.tumblr.com/), which is pretty simple and old css (apart for the fonts).
On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 19:29, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 18:01, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 07:14, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote: > > 2011/12/15 Nicolas Bercher nbercher@yahoo.fr: > > L0ner sh4dou a écrit : > > > >> You got me thinking about whole triselon thing. I did a two
litte
> >> sketches for trinity logo proposal. > >> First: http://db.tt/LwqZWTuP > >> Second: http://db.tt/YpivoAGk > > > > > > Maybe the "T" is not that much important and the logo could be > > designed > > without it. > > > > Nicolas > > > If we remove the t from the second one we will just get logo of > Trisquel linux. For the first one it's integral part of logo, > without > it the space looks 'empty' to me. > > >
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net > For additional commands, e-mail: > trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net > Read list messsages on the Web archive: > http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ > Please remember not to top-post: > http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting >
I like the first one more than the second (reminds me of the trisequal logo to much, could be taken as far as a blatant rip off :x)
Same opinion here.
Does no one like the current trinity logo? I sort of like it
actually
:) But if I had to pick it would be the first one.
I like the idea of the Gear. it reminds me of a hard working, well tuned machine designed for serious activities, rather than a less serious one.
Yes, but this gear is too strong reference to KDE, anyway we can have a gear-like tooths in the logo (like in second example).
Could you create this as an SVG? I could give it a whack.
Only If I learn how to xD Anyway I'm more occupied by PKGBUILDs for arch ATM, so I will work on this after I finish those. This was to gather some ideas, since I
want
to create new webpage for trinity at some point (acutally second
thing
on my TO-DO list, after PKGBUILDs)
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Aside from archlinux packages I'm also the defacto website designer, well sort of.
I developed the current website ( a vast improvement from the previous one ) and it's been quite careful.
We don't want anything to much, or to little, to complicated or to simple. I think improvments would be more warranted the this scenario.
I was thinking on relaying completely on the wiki system we use for whole site. It can be done. And I think we should add some sort of news system in which we will write what actually happens inside the project, so it don't seem dead. If we add ability to comment those news it will be like saying to users "we care about what you think!". User-frendliness. This can be done by using plugin for the wiki system. Generally the archlinux site is a great inspiration for me. It's simple, looks good and has everything you need.
Indeed it looks great and works well, though I think it is very
complicated
(it is hosted in their git repository so you can see)
I'd like to see some things.
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs into
one
page.
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
I think we are avoiding using any sort of databsases however and we want
to
make sure tihs all will render well on any web browser.
Calvin Morrison
Well I can do some css magic. It will look good and render on modern browsers (forget about konqueror tho).
We cannot have our homepage incorrectly load on our own web browser.
Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages.
Basically - why is is this so bad?
As I said we could use the wiki system for everything. I'll try to make a draft after I finish pkgbuilds.
Meh, I actually work on a wiki based education site, ( http://mathforum.org/mathimages/index.php/Main_Page) and it's a PITA to use this for everything
Calvin
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:20:11 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
Indeed it looks great and works well, though I think it is very
complicated
(it is hosted in their git repository so you can see)
I'd like to see some things.
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs into
one
page.
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
I think we are avoiding using any sort of databsases however and we want
to
make sure tihs all will render well on any web browser.
Calvin Morrison
Well I can do some css magic. It will look good and render on modern browsers (forget about konqueror tho).
We cannot have our homepage incorrectly load on our own web browser.
There is really no reason we should "forget about Konqueror"--it's sufficiently modern that it should support CSS1 and at least most of CSS2, and a fair selection of Javascript constructs. It's possible to create a decent site within those constraints, keeping in mind that it doesn't have to look *identical* on both Konqueror and more recent browsers, just "good". Graceful degredation in webpages is not rocket science.
However, one thing that we do need to keep in mind is that people who haven't yet installed any other graphical environment may wish to download Trinity packages--in other words, it would be wise to create something that is usable in text-based browsers like Lynx (it doesn't have to be elegant, but it should be possible to get from the root page to the package downloads that way).
Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages.
Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are not intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
On 16 December 2011 11:27, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:20:11 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
Indeed it looks great and works well, though I think it is very
complicated
(it is hosted in their git repository so you can see)
I'd like to see some things.
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs
into
one
page.
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying
the
navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs
recently.
I think we are avoiding using any sort of databsases however and we
want
to
make sure tihs all will render well on any web browser.
Calvin Morrison
Well I can do some css magic. It will look good and render on modern browsers (forget about konqueror tho).
We cannot have our homepage incorrectly load on our own web browser.
There is really no reason we should "forget about Konqueror"--it's sufficiently modern that it should support CSS1 and at least most of CSS2, and a fair selection of Javascript constructs. It's possible to create a decent site within those constraints, keeping in mind that it doesn't have to look *identical* on both Konqueror and more recent browsers, just "good". Graceful degredation in webpages is not rocket science.
However, one thing that we do need to keep in mind is that people who haven't yet installed any other graphical environment may wish to download Trinity packages--in other words, it would be wise to create something that is usable in text-based browsers like Lynx (it doesn't have to be elegant, but it should be possible to get from the root page to the package downloads that way).
Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages.
Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are not intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
Both can be good, If anything I'd do a bit of both.
Simple php/html + a commenting system.
here is a good example of very basic and yet has dynamic elements: http://incise.org/htpicker.html
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 11:27, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:20:11 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
Indeed it looks great and works well, though I think it is very
complicated
(it is hosted in their git repository so you can see)
I'd like to see some things.
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs into
one
page.
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
I think we are avoiding using any sort of databsases however and we want
to
make sure tihs all will render well on any web browser.
Calvin Morrison
Well I can do some css magic. It will look good and render on modern browsers (forget about konqueror tho).
We cannot have our homepage incorrectly load on our own web browser.
There is really no reason we should "forget about Konqueror"--it's sufficiently modern that it should support CSS1 and at least most of CSS2, and a fair selection of Javascript constructs. It's possible to create a decent site within those constraints, keeping in mind that it doesn't have to look *identical* on both Konqueror and more recent browsers, just "good". Graceful degredation in webpages is not rocket science.
However, one thing that we do need to keep in mind is that people who haven't yet installed any other graphical environment may wish to download Trinity packages--in other words, it would be wise to create something that is usable in text-based browsers like Lynx (it doesn't have to be elegant, but it should be possible to get from the root page to the package downloads that way).
Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages.
Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are not intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
Both can be good, If anything I'd do a bit of both.
Simple php/html + a commenting system.
here is a good example of very basic and yet has dynamic elements: http://incise.org/htpicker.html
It uses disqus for the comments, for which I have mixed feelings. I'd rather not relay on external services for parts of the website.
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:55:47 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 11:27, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:20:11 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages.
Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are not intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
Both can be good, If anything I'd do a bit of both.
Simple php/html + a commenting system.
here is a good example of very basic and yet has dynamic elements: http://incise.org/htpicker.html
It uses disqus for the comments, for which I have mixed feelings. I'd rather not relay on external services for parts of the website.
I think Calvin was advocating the general concept, not the specific implementation. I'm sure we can find an open-source, locally-hostable comment system that requires only PHP, HTML4/XHTML1, and CSS<=2 (and if we can't, I'm sure I'm not the only one here capable of creating such a system if it turns out to be both useful and necessary).
2011/12/16 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:55:47 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 11:27, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:20:11 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically constrains you to use static pages.
Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are not intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
Both can be good, If anything I'd do a bit of both.
Simple php/html + a commenting system.
here is a good example of very basic and yet has dynamic elements: http://incise.org/htpicker.html
It uses disqus for the comments, for which I have mixed feelings. I'd rather not relay on external services for parts of the website.
I think Calvin was advocating the general concept, not the specific implementation. I'm sure we can find an open-source, locally-hostable comment system that requires only PHP, HTML4/XHTML1, and CSS<=2 (and if we can't, I'm sure I'm not the only one here capable of creating such a system if it turns out to be both useful and necessary).
That would be nice.
On 16 December 2011 12:57, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:55:47 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 11:27, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:20:11 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
> Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically
constrains
> you to use static pages. > Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are
not
intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
Both can be good, If anything I'd do a bit of both.
Simple php/html + a commenting system.
here is a good example of very basic and yet has dynamic elements: http://incise.org/htpicker.html
It uses disqus for the comments, for which I have mixed feelings. I'd rather not relay on external services for parts of the website.
I think Calvin was advocating the general concept, not the specific implementation. I'm sure we can find an open-source, locally-hostable comment system that requires only PHP, HTML4/XHTML1, and CSS<=2 (and if we can't, I'm sure I'm not the only one here capable of creating such a system if it turns out to be both useful and necessary).
That would be nice.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 12:57, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:55:47 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 11:27, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:20:11 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
> On 15 December 2011 19:45, L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote: > > > Not using databases is a big problem, since it practically > > constrains > > you to use static pages. > > > Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are not intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
Both can be good, If anything I'd do a bit of both.
Simple php/html + a commenting system.
here is a good example of very basic and yet has dynamic elements: http://incise.org/htpicker.html
It uses disqus for the comments, for which I have mixed feelings. I'd rather not relay on external services for parts of the website.
I think Calvin was advocating the general concept, not the specific implementation. I'm sure we can find an open-source, locally-hostable comment system that requires only PHP, HTML4/XHTML1, and CSS<=2 (and if we can't, I'm sure I'm not the only one here capable of creating such a system if it turns out to be both useful and necessary).
That would be nice.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Looks nice, MYSQL db required tho.
There is really no reason we should "forget about Konqueror"--it's sufficiently modern that it should support CSS1 and at least most of CSS2, and a fair selection of Javascript constructs. It's possible to create a decent site within those constraints, keeping in mind that it doesn't have to look *identical* on both Konqueror and more recent browsers, just "good". Graceful degredation in webpages is not rocket science.
However, one thing that we do need to keep in mind is that people who haven't yet installed any other graphical environment may wish to download Trinity packages--in other words, it would be wise to create something that is usable in text-based browsers like Lynx (it doesn't have to be elegant, but it should be possible to get from the root page to the package downloads that way).
Not using databases is a big problem, since it
practically constrains
you to use static pages.
Basically - why is is this so bad?
Depends on what we're trying to achieve. Dynamic pages ease certain types of collaboration and user-added content, but static pages are not intrinsically evil and put less of a load on the server.
Please. Please! No JavaScript with the Trinity web site. Supporters of JavaScript should take long walks on short piers, preferably while inebriated.
I hate JavaScript, the bane of the internet. Bandwidth hog and security nightmare.
Bad enough already that I have to white list that crap to access etherpad and the wiki. (Hint, hint.)
Please create static web pages.
Darrell
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:37:39 -0800 (PST) Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I hate JavaScript, the bane of the internet. Bandwidth hog and security nightmare.
JavaScript is a client-side language, it generates no bandwith in itself. Some years ago I did local web pages with Javascript, and it is actually quite useful to do Flash-less games and animations for example.
Bad enough already that I have to white list that crap to access etherpad and the wiki. (Hint, hint.)
The thing I hate with Etherpad is that it requires cookies even to view public pads without being logged in.
Please create static web pages.
Javascript and static web pages are compatible (using DOM and/or document.write is not mandatory).
On 16 December 2011 14:53, /dev/ammo42 mickeytintincolle@yahoo.fr wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:37:39 -0800 (PST) Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I hate JavaScript, the bane of the internet. Bandwidth hog and security nightmare.
yes, but that is life. you must adapt to the world around you.
JavaScript is a client-side language, it generates no bandwith in
itself. Some years ago I did local web pages with Javascript, and it is actually quite useful to do Flash-less games and animations for example.
Exactly! guys this isn't 1994 and people expect to use dynamic websites, Javascript isn't terrible and evil when used in good proportion
Bad enough already that I have to white list that crap to access
etherpad and the wiki. (Hint, hint.)
The thing I hate with Etherpad is that it requires cookies even to view public pads without being logged in.
Offtopic but that is another issue
Please create static web pages. Javascript and static web pages are compatible (using DOM and/or
document.write is not mandatory).
You could also use static html forms for a comment system, though frankly I'd rather use javascript to achieve the same end.
L0ner:
Looks nice, MYSQL db required tho.
I am sure Tim is already mysql, so no overhead. and mysql isn't all bad either ;)
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:24:28 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 16 December 2011 14:53, /dev/ammo42 mickeytintincolle@yahoo.fr wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:37:39 -0800 (PST) Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I hate JavaScript, the bane of the internet. Bandwidth hog and security nightmare.
yes, but that is life. you must adapt to the world around you.
If I believed that, I would be using Windows. :P
JavaScript is a client-side language, it generates no bandwith in
itself. Some years ago I did local web pages with Javascript, and it is actually quite useful to do Flash-less games and animations for example.
Exactly! guys this isn't 1994 and people expect to use dynamic websites, Javascript isn't terrible and evil when used in good proportion
Used properly, Javascript can make a nice enhancement to a webpage, but *requiring* it in order to use a page is usually just bad design--same as Flash. (I make an exception for games and some types of complex cloud-hosted applications, however.) It's good for making user feedback more prompt, and for certain types of visual effects that appeal to the sort of people who leave it turned on, but in general, if it's used to do anything *important* (like site navigation, or form validation or submission), that action should also be possible without it. The NOSCRIPT element is good for more than displaying stupid "we don't want to let you use our site" messages, and so is server-side code.
I hate JavaScript, the bane of the internet. Bandwidth
hog and
security nightmare.
yes, but that is life. you must adapt to the world around you.
I don't have to do jack sh-t. ;) :) I enable JS only when I want to, which is very seldom.
Exactly! guys this isn't 1994 and people expect to use dynamic websites, Javascript isn't terrible and evil when used in good proportion
You have lake front property in Nevada for sale too? :)
JS sucks. Cookies suck.
Javascript and static web pages are compatible (using DOM and/or document.write is not mandatory). You could also use static html forms for a comment system, though frankly I'd rather use javascript to achieve the same end.
Enable JS all you want but if functionality is not available without enabling JS then screw people who are not on broadband. Many people today are not on broadband because of cost or lack of availability. If the TDE team wants to target people using older hardware as good candidates for TDE, then consider the overall environment of these people.
JS might be client-side, but the scripts still must be downloaded to function. People on older hardware do not have the CPU or graphics muscle in their machines to tolerate JS. I have older machines here that I use in my testing. Those machines can't deal with all the Web 2.0 bullsh-t.
That has always been a problem with computers. Devs use bleeding edge hardware and never test their apps or web sites with older hardware. Most of them have high broadband connections and never test with anything else.
Speaking of which, web devs need to test their pages on smaller monitors. Most web pages these days are designed on monitors bigger than most TVS and when the web page is viewed on a smaller monitor the text is too small to read by anybody with vision issues.
All I'm saying here is don't be an ass wipe with redesigning the web site. :)
Darrell
On 16 December 2011 17:10, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I hate JavaScript, the bane of the internet. Bandwidth
hog and
security nightmare.
yes, but that is life. you must adapt to the world around you.
I don't have to do jack sh-t. ;) :) I enable JS only when I want to, which is very seldom.
Exactly! guys this isn't 1994 and people expect to use dynamic websites, Javascript isn't terrible and evil when used in good proportion
You have lake front property in Nevada for sale too? :)
No.
JS sucks. Cookies suck.
No. Wrong wrong wrong. Cookies are great when used to store information I wanted stored, like preferences or to stay logged into a website, tracking cookies are obviously bad however.
Javascript and static web pages are compatible (using DOM and/or document.write is not mandatory). You could also use static html forms for a comment system, though frankly I'd rather use javascript to achieve the same end.
Enable JS all you want but if functionality is not available without enabling JS then screw people who are not on broadband. Many people today are not on broadband because of cost or lack of availability. If the TDE team wants to target people using older hardware as good candidates for TDE, then consider the overall environment of these people.
Javascript is not a issue for bandwidth, it won't present an issue since it is interpreted locally. The only functionality I am suggesting not exist is a commenting system - which is non-essential.
JS might be client-side, but the scripts still must be downloaded to
function. People on older hardware do not have the CPU or graphics muscle in their machines to tolerate JS. I have older machines here that I use in my testing. Those machines can't deal with all the Web 2.0 bullsh-t.
Scripts are just small text files, overhead is as minimal as the already existing CSS files. (or do you have that disabled too?) Javascript is 15+ years old. Stop being absurd! Are you running machines that are pre-pentium 1? Of course we won't be rendering WebGL 3D frames, we'll be using very simplistic javascript to achieve a minimal end. In fact most websites these days depend on it.
That has always been a problem with computers. Devs use bleeding edge hardware and never test their apps or web sites with older hardware. Most of them have high broadband connections and never test with anything else.
I concur with this sentiment, spending my whole life on sub par machines. I do understand this, but I think our website will be fine
Speaking of which, web devs need to test their pages on smaller monitors. Most web pages these days are designed on monitors bigger than most TVS and when the web page is viewed on a smaller monitor the text is too small to read by anybody with vision issues.
I concur with this as well. I think we need to work on our top display bar, other than that the website works well. It renders well in a 640x640 window
All I'm saying here is don't be an ass wipe with redesigning the web site. :)
Contributions appreciated, as the old arch saying goes "patches are welcome!" or "put up or shut up" applies as well.
Calvin Morrison
<snip>
All I'm saying here is don't be an ass wipe with redesigning the web site. :)
Contributions appreciated, as the old arch saying goes "patches are welcome!" or "put up or shut up" applies as well.
Calvin Morrison
Just a reminder to keep it civil here folks. Personally I try to provide both a JS and non-JS version of any given feature--while people may no longer have K6 CPUs not everyone has an Android/iPhone either. Providing a non-JS version allows people with midgrade phones to still use all the features of the website.
Regarding stability, in theory javascript should be OK. In practice the JS engine built into a given browser can leak memory quite badly--for me this manifests as having to regularly restart Firefox, which gets to be quite a nuiscance over time. TDE might end up (randomly) being the site that pushes the user's system over a memory limit, and nothing says "professional" like a site appearing to crash the users' browser.
Just something to keep in mind. ;-)
Tim
On 16 December 2011 17:48, Timothy Pearson kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.netwrote:
<snip> > >> All I'm saying here is don't be an ass wipe with redesigning the web >> site. >> :) >> > > Contributions appreciated, as the old arch saying goes "patches are > welcome!" or "put up or shut up" applies as well. > > Calvin Morrison >
Just a reminder to keep it civil here folks. Personally I try to provide both a JS and non-JS version of any given feature--while people may no longer have K6 CPUs not everyone has an Android/iPhone either. Providing a non-JS version allows people with midgrade phones to still use all the features of the website.
Again, I am not suggesting implementing a giant javascript hell. I am suggesting a small and simple piece of JavaScript to enable community interaction via a comment system.
Regarding stability, in theory javascript should be OK. In practice the
JS engine built into a given browser can leak memory quite badly--for me this manifests as having to regularly restart Firefox, which gets to be quite a nuiscance over time. TDE might end up (randomly) being the site that pushes the user's system over a memory limit, and nothing says "professional" like a site appearing to crash the users' browser.
Firefox has long lost any control over it's ability to manage memory. As of the latest builds, it can no longer be compiled on a 32bit system because the linker uses 3gb+ of memory.
:)
Personally I try to provide both a JS and non-JS version of any given feature--while people may no longer have K6 CPUs not everyone has an Android/iPhone either. Providing a non-JS version allows people with midgrade phones to still use all the features of the website.
That is my basic point. Don't make JavaScript a functional requirement. JavaScript should be an option. Those who do not use JavaScript should not be prohibited from enjoying the web site or contributing comments.
Regarding stability, in theory javascript should be OK. In practice the JS engine built into a given browser can leak memory quite badly--for me this manifests as having to regularly restart Firefox, which gets to be quite a nuiscance over time. TDE might end up (randomly) being the site that pushes the user's system over a memory limit, and nothing says "professional" like a site appearing to crash the users' browser.
Being in the engineering and technical fields much of my adult life, I have learned that theory and practice often don't coincide nicely. :)
I long have suspected that my low usage of JavaScript helps me avoid the common complaints about Firefox crashing and memory leaks. Who knows.
I agree that any software that crashes in itself makes a resounding statement about quality assurance and lacks a professional image. :)
Darrell
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:42:14 -0800 (PST) Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
I long have suspected that my low usage of JavaScript helps me avoid the common complaints about Firefox crashing and memory leaks. Who knows.
With me Firefox (either 3.6 or latest) hasn't crashed for months, even though JavaScript is allowed everywhere. However, I use Privoxy for ad-blocking and I don't use Flash. For memory leaks I actually don't give a **** considering I have 6G or RAM.
<rage> Ok, people, stop it!
I haven't participated for the past month because I've been tired, sick, and I've already fainted twice this month because of that. Not fun. (background of raging)
But this is really getting out of hand. What the hell does Javascript, Firefox, or cookies have to do with the Trinity logo? NOTHING.
So move it to another thread and stop filling this one. I also suggest to stop friendly insulting each other (I know both of you don't mean it), but from a public view it != nice.
</rage> Sorry about that rage, but I mean it.
-- later daze.
With me Firefox (either 3.6 or latest) hasn't crashed for months, even though JavaScript is allowed everywhere. However, I use Privoxy for ad-blocking and I don't use Flash.
I use a simple but effective ad blocking scheme and allow flash only on two sites that I visit only occasionally. I disable iframes and Java. Perhaps that helps too. :)
I'm still using 3.6.x. I don't remember the last time Firefox crashed.
Darrell
Wrong wrong wrong. Cookies are great when used to store information I wanted stored, like preferences or to stay logged into a website, tracking cookies are obviously bad however.
Let me rephrase. When a web site refuses to load because cookies are not enabled, then the web site designer is playing the role of a fool. I came across such a site today (Sears), researching a product. Because I use a white list approach for cookies, I do not have cookies enabled globally. All I received from the web site was a message that I did not have cookies enabled. No product information. I closed the page and moved on. I'm not dealing with idiots like that.
Cookies are fine when the END-USER finds them useful. When cookies are required to merely use a web site (like etherpad) then there is something inherently wrong with the design.
The same goes for JavaScript. For example, visit the Asus downloads site. No meaningful function at all unless JavaScript is enabled. The Amazon web site is another example in that viewing alternate images is not possible without JavaScript. That's not good design.
Javascript is not a issue for bandwidth, it won't present an issue since it is interpreted locally. The only functionality I am suggesting not exist is a commenting system - which is non-essential.
JavaScript IS a bandwidth issue. Try surfing the web all day on dial-up.
Although today I have a broadband connection, the connection is not high-end or robust. I still very much experience the overhead of all the web 2.0 nonsense.
And what is wrong with a simple forms-based comment section, much like we saw in the pre Web 2.0 days? Nothing wrong. People get mad when they configure a JavaScript white list in their browser and visit a site where they have to temporarily enable JavaScript.
Scripts are just small text files, overhead is as minimal as the already existing CSS files. (or do you have that disabled too?) Javascript is 15+ years old. Stop being absurd! Are you running machines that are pre-pentium 1? Of course we won't be rendering WebGL 3D frames, we'll be using very simplistic javascript to achieve a minimal end. In fact most websites these days depend on it.
I'm being realistic. We have two different perspectives. I was using computers back before there were BBSs. Back when there was no world wide web. All we had were modems. I remember when sites had to be designed to be efficient, which seldom happens anymore. Until a few years ago I had to survive on dial-up. I have not forgotten those days and I will not forget people still using dial-up or low broadband connections.
I see TDE as being a good desktop for people using older hardware. People using older hardware are unlikely to have fast connectivitiy.
That you allege many web sites today depend upon JavaScript is about the same as saying everybody else is jumping off the cliff so let's do that too. I never have been much of a "jump on the bandwagon" person. :)
I concur with this as well. I think we need to work on our top display bar, other than that the website works well. It renders well in a 640x640 window
My recommendations included a simpler nav bar.
Contributions appreciated, as the old arch saying goes "patches are welcome!" or "put up or shut up" applies as well.
I'm feeling feisty today. So my contributions with this topic are rocks thrown hard. I have no patience for this web 2.0 crap. :)
Darrell
On 16 December 2011 18:30, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
Wrong wrong wrong. Cookies are great when used to store information I wanted stored, like preferences or to stay logged into a website, tracking cookies are obviously bad however.
Let me rephrase. When a web site refuses to load because cookies are not enabled, then the web site designer is playing the role of a fool. I came across such a site today (Sears), researching a product. Because I use a white list approach for cookies, I do not have cookies enabled globally. All I received from the web site was a message that I did not have cookies enabled. No product information. I closed the page and moved on. I'm not dealing with idiots like that.
Cookies are fine when the END-USER finds them useful. When cookies are required to merely use a web site (like etherpad) then there is something inherently wrong with the design.
The same goes for JavaScript. For example, visit the Asus downloads site. No meaningful function at all unless JavaScript is enabled. The Amazon web site is another example in that viewing alternate images is not possible without JavaScript. That's not good design.
Amazon.com caters to the 99.999999999999% of users who have javascript enabled. Frankly as a web developer, I'd be insane to have to assume everyone had it turned off.
Javascript is not a issue for bandwidth, it won't present an issue since it is interpreted locally. The only functionality I am suggesting not exist is a commenting system - which is non-essential.
JavaScript IS a bandwidth issue. Try surfing the web all day on dial-up.
Although today I have a broadband connection, the connection is not
high-end or robust. I still very much experience the overhead of all the web 2.0 nonsense.
And what is wrong with a simple forms-based comment section, much like we saw in the pre Web 2.0 days? Nothing wrong. People get mad when they configure a JavaScript white list in their browser and visit a site where they have to temporarily enable JavaScript.
This will be considered also as an option.
Scripts are just small text files, overhead is as minimal as the already existing CSS files. (or do you have that disabled too?) Javascript is 15+ years old. Stop being absurd! Are you running machines that are pre-pentium 1? Of course we won't be rendering WebGL 3D frames, we'll be using very simplistic javascript to achieve a minimal end. In fact most websites these days depend on it.
I'm being realistic. We have two different perspectives. I was using computers back before there were BBSs. Back when there was no world wide web. All we had were modems. I remember when sites had to be designed to be efficient, which seldom happens anymore. Until a few years ago I had to survive on dial-up. I have not forgotten those days and I will not forget people still using dial-up or low broadband connections.
You sound like an old fogie who is concerned that rock and roll is from the devil. Again our website is very minimalist and will continue to do so, Javascript or not.
I see TDE as being a good desktop for people using older hardware. People
using older hardware are unlikely to have fast connectivitiy.
I don't think there is a direct connection between the two. Then again people using linux are more likely to know about computers and want a faster connection.
That you allege many web sites today depend upon JavaScript is about the
same as saying everybody else is jumping off the cliff so let's do that too. I never have been much of a "jump on the bandwagon" person. :)
Sink or swim, I'm diving in. Again, comments are a thing of Web 2.0 and interactive webpages are as well. If we want these features then we need to implement them in a modern way.
I concur with this as well. I think we
need to work on our top display bar, other than that the website works well. It renders well in a 640x640 window
My recommendations included a simpler nav bar.
Yep duely noted.
Calvin Morrison
You sound like an old fogie who is concerned that rock and roll is from the devil.
Wrong guess, minus five! I was listening to rock and roll and driving my parents bonkers long before you were born. :)
I don't think there is a direct connection between the two. Then again people using linux are more likely to know about computers and want a faster connection.
Wanting a faster connection is not the same as having one. When broadband is unavailable, which is true in many rural and less developed regions, then wanting won't change that. :)
Linux based systems often are touted as a way to extend the life of older hardware. Frankly, with what I have seen in free/libre software the past few years, that statement long ago vanished from any truth like the dew on a hot sunny morning. As I said, devs seldom design or test their software on older hardware. Short of minimalistic window managers, the only remaining full desktop environments for older hardware are LXDE, Xfce, and TDE. And Xfce is getting bloated too.
Darrell
2011/12/17 Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com:
You sound like an old fogie who is concerned that rock and roll is from the devil.
Wrong guess, minus five! I was listening to rock and roll and driving my parents bonkers long before you were born. :)
I don't think there is a direct connection between the two. Then again people using linux are more likely to know about computers and want a faster connection.
Wanting a faster connection is not the same as having one. When broadband is unavailable, which is true in many rural and less developed regions, then wanting won't change that. :)
Linux based systems often are touted as a way to extend the life of older hardware. Frankly, with what I have seen in free/libre software the past few years, that statement long ago vanished from any truth like the dew on a hot sunny morning. As I said, devs seldom design or test their software on older hardware. Short of minimalistic window managers, the only remaining full desktop environments for older hardware are LXDE, Xfce, and TDE. And Xfce is getting bloated too.
Darrell
This discussion has gone.. where? I started it to gather opinions for new logo for trinity and trinity website since actuall resembles too much that of kde. What I got is bunch of people disussing which technologies we should use and which not on our new website (that isn't even in early project state, just a simple idea in my mind). And now we are shifting to TDE target... Honestly, IMO this is wrong.
On 16 December 2011 19:11, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
You sound like an old fogie who is concerned that rock and roll is from the devil.
Wrong guess, minus five! I was listening to rock and roll and driving my parents bonkers long before you were born. :)
I don't think there is a direct connection between the two. Then again people using linux are more likely to know about computers and want a faster connection.
Wanting a faster connection is not the same as having one. When broadband is unavailable, which is true in many rural and less developed regions, then wanting won't change that. :)
Linux based systems often are touted as a way to extend the life of older hardware. Frankly, with what I have seen in free/libre software the past few years, that statement long ago vanished from any truth like the dew on a hot sunny morning. As I said, devs seldom design or test their software on older hardware. Short of minimalistic window managers, the only remaining full desktop environments for older hardware are LXDE, Xfce, and TDE. And Xfce is getting bloated too.
Darrell
I do not even consider LXDE an environment. They use open box, provide a panel and a session manager, a few apps as well.
An environment is a cohesive and integrated place to work. XFCE and TDE are good environments.
Then again, developers in FOSS do it primarily for fun, if they use high end boxes, they have no incentive to make it work on a older machine
Just a thought Calvin Morrison
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:10:31 -0800 (PST) Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
Enable JS all you want but if functionality is not available without enabling JS then screw people who are not on broadband. Many people today are not on broadband because of cost or lack of availability. If the TDE team wants to target people using older hardware as good candidates for TDE, then consider the overall environment of these people.
JS might be client-side, but the scripts still must be downloaded to function. People on older hardware do not have the CPU or graphics muscle in their machines to tolerate JS. I have older machines here that I use in my testing. Those machines can't deal with all the Web 2.0 bullsh-t.
JS is not a big download, it is just C-like interpreted code. Also, I don't agree at all with the "Web 2.0 bullsh*t" denomination you put on Javascript: actually I learnt it with a computer without Internet access and W98/IE4, well before the real Web 2.0 bullsh*t. The bullsh*t is rather big commercial sites with large ads, fancy graphic effects and large images all the way, that always gonna give c*** should they be made in JS, Flash or any another technology.
That has always been a problem with computers. Devs use bleeding edge hardware and never test their apps or web sites with older hardware. Most of them have high broadband connections and never test with anything else.
I think that the popularity of "smart"-phones will entice/is enticing Web developers to make semi-reasonable sites (but which are still likely to knee down a K6-II).
Speaking of which, web devs need to test their pages on smaller monitors. Most web pages these days are designed on monitors bigger than most TVS and when the web page is viewed on a smaller monitor the text is too small to read by anybody with vision issues.
Like for the above point, "smart"-phones have lower resolutions and smaller monitors.
All I'm saying here is don't be an ass wipe with redesigning the web site. :)
Darrell
On 16 December 2011 17:42, /dev/ammo42 mickeytintincolle@yahoo.fr wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:10:31 -0800 (PST) Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
Enable JS all you want but if functionality is not available without enabling JS then screw people who are not on broadband. Many people today are not on broadband because of cost or lack of availability. If the TDE team wants to target people using older hardware as good candidates for TDE, then consider the overall environment of these people.
JS might be client-side, but the scripts still must be downloaded to function. People on older hardware do not have the CPU or graphics muscle in their machines to tolerate JS. I have older machines here that I use in my testing. Those machines can't deal with all the Web 2.0 bullsh-t.
JS is not a big download, it is just C-like interpreted code. Also, I don't agree at all with the "Web 2.0 bullsh*t" denomination you put on Javascript: actually I learnt it with a computer without Internet access and W98/IE4, well before the real Web 2.0 bullsh*t. The bullsh*t is rather big commercial sites with large ads, fancy graphic effects and large images all the way, that always gonna give c*** should they be made in JS, Flash or any another technology.
That has always been a problem with computers. Devs use bleeding edge hardware and never test their apps or web sites with older hardware. Most of them have high broadband connections and never test with anything else.
I think that the popularity of "smart"-phones will entice/is enticing Web developers to make semi-reasonable sites (but which are still likely to knee down a K6-II).
Speaking of which, web devs need to test their pages on smaller monitors. Most web pages these days are designed on monitors bigger than most TVS and when the web page is viewed on a smaller monitor the text is too small to read by anybody with vision issues.
Like for the above point, "smart"-phones have lower resolutions and smaller monitors.
All I'm saying here is don't be an ass wipe with redesigning the web site. :)
What about developing a mobile site? :-)
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 17:42, /dev/ammo42 mickeytintincolle@yahoo.fr wrote:
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:10:31 -0800 (PST) Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
Enable JS all you want but if functionality is not available without enabling JS then screw people who are not on broadband. Many people today are not on broadband because of cost or lack of availability. If the TDE team wants to target people using older hardware as good candidates for TDE, then consider the overall environment of these people.
JS might be client-side, but the scripts still must be downloaded to function. People on older hardware do not have the CPU or graphics muscle in their machines to tolerate JS. I have older machines here that I use in my testing. Those machines can't deal with all the Web 2.0 bullsh-t.
JS is not a big download, it is just C-like interpreted code. Also, I don't agree at all with the "Web 2.0 bullsh*t" denomination you put on Javascript: actually I learnt it with a computer without Internet access and W98/IE4, well before the real Web 2.0 bullsh*t. The bullsh*t is rather big commercial sites with large ads, fancy graphic effects and large images all the way, that always gonna give c*** should they be made in JS, Flash or any another technology.
That has always been a problem with computers. Devs use bleeding edge hardware and never test their apps or web sites with older hardware. Most of them have high broadband connections and never test with anything else.
I think that the popularity of "smart"-phones will entice/is enticing Web developers to make semi-reasonable sites (but which are still likely to knee down a K6-II).
Speaking of which, web devs need to test their pages on smaller monitors. Most web pages these days are designed on monitors bigger than most TVS and when the web page is viewed on a smaller monitor the text is too small to read by anybody with vision issues.
Like for the above point, "smart"-phones have lower resolutions and smaller monitors.
All I'm saying here is don't be an ass wipe with redesigning the web site. :)
What about developing a mobile site? :-)
Never did this, maybe it would be nice to have one.
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:44:42 -0500 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
What about developing a mobile site? :-)
<obvioustrollisobvious>I'd rather see a "kde.org Active" mobile website from the one-major-version-higher people ;) And obviously it would use server-side NEPOMUK/Akonadi everywhere so we can could expect actually it to actually be working for the next minor release.</obvioustrollisobvious>
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
Updating the web site is on hold until the GIT migration and file renaming projects are complete. Tim has the suggestions. I believe he will update the web site after the GIT and file renaming projects are complete.
I'm still creating a basic apps description list.
My two cents about the logo is I like the current logo with the gears and T. The logo shows our roots to KDE3 but maintains a separate identity.
I am not concerned with goofballs misinterpreting what Trinity means. Just about any name can be perceived by fanatics as meaning something "sinister."
One rabbi and one blogger have their heads stuffed where the sun doesn't shine. That is not a loss of market share.
Tim has expended too much energy with the renaming project to begin anew. Not to mention the many places the word Trinity is used and also would need to be replaced. For example, all Handbook help files, About descriptions, etc.
I'm aware of the various meanings but the name Trinity does not bother me.
The proposed FAQ in etherpad explains the meaning, in the History section. The FAQ will become part of the updated web site.
Darrell
On 15 December 2011 20:19, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
Updating the web site is on hold until the GIT migration and file renaming projects are complete. Tim has the suggestions. I believe he will update the web site after the GIT and file renaming projects are complete.
I'm still creating a basic apps description list.
My two cents about the logo is I like the current logo with the gears and T. The logo shows our roots to KDE3 but maintains a separate identity.
I am not concerned with goofballs misinterpreting what Trinity means. Just about any name can be perceived by fanatics as meaning something "sinister."
One rabbi and one blogger have their heads stuffed where the sun doesn't shine. That is not a loss of market share.
Tim has expended too much energy with the renaming project to begin anew. Not to mention the many places the word Trinity is used and also would need to be replaced. For example, all Handbook help files, About descriptions, etc.
I'm aware of the various meanings but the name Trinity does not bother me.
The proposed FAQ in etherpad explains the meaning, in the History section. The FAQ will become part of the updated web site.
Darrell
I vote to have the trinity website available in a git repository, making more fluid website developement. Tim has cited concerns about website security, but we could just not upload possible areas for harm. Anyone have thoughts on this idea?
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 15 December 2011 20:19, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
A "apps" section, I think Darrell spoke about this before.
In fact, Darrell had a lot of good stuff and ideas for simplifying the navigation of the website, they're somewhere in the mail logs recently.
Updating the web site is on hold until the GIT migration and file renaming projects are complete. Tim has the suggestions. I believe he will update the web site after the GIT and file renaming projects are complete.
I'm still creating a basic apps description list.
My two cents about the logo is I like the current logo with the gears and T. The logo shows our roots to KDE3 but maintains a separate identity.
I am not concerned with goofballs misinterpreting what Trinity means. Just about any name can be perceived by fanatics as meaning something "sinister."
One rabbi and one blogger have their heads stuffed where the sun doesn't shine. That is not a loss of market share.
Tim has expended too much energy with the renaming project to begin anew. Not to mention the many places the word Trinity is used and also would need to be replaced. For example, all Handbook help files, About descriptions, etc.
I'm aware of the various meanings but the name Trinity does not bother me.
The proposed FAQ in etherpad explains the meaning, in the History section. The FAQ will become part of the updated web site.
Darrell
I vote to have the trinity website available in a git repository, making more fluid website developement. Tim has cited concerns about website security, but we could just not upload possible areas for harm. Anyone have thoughts on this idea?
I don't know anything about it, i never did it before. But seems like a nice idea.
On Friday 16 December 2011 02:22:01 Calvin Morrison wrote:
I vote to have the trinity website available in a git repository, making more fluid website developement. Tim has cited concerns about website security, but we could just not upload possible areas for harm. Anyone have thoughts on this idea?
keeping a website's sources in a VCS is always a good idea. so, why not put the trinity site in git, too, but simply restrict (also read!) access to those actually working on it ?
werner
I might be a very ignorant in this topic. But I don't see a justification for the rebranding. The product is *still* KDE on 99.9% with a few bugs fixed. If there will be some large but hidden changes like moving from HAL to UDEV, moving from DCOP to DBUS, XDG compliance, etc. It will be *still* KDE user experience. The UI is developed by KDE and the UI is that is valued most here. So this fuss about replacement of K with T bothers me much! And this seem to take too much energy instead of fixing real bugs.
And by the way pronounciation of TDE sounds awkward... So I'm all against it. Though I am just a user.
On 16 December 2011 07:16, Aleksey Midenkov midenok@gmail.com wrote:
I might be a very ignorant in this topic. But I don't see a justification for the rebranding. The product is *still* KDE on 99.9% with a few bugs fixed. If there will be some large but hidden changes like moving from HAL to UDEV, moving from DCOP to DBUS, XDG compliance, etc. It will be *still* KDE user experience.
Similar code, but it is nNo longer a KDE product
The UI is developed by KDE and the UI is that is valued most here. So this fuss about replacement of K with T bothers me much! And this seem to take too much energy instead of fixing real bugs.
The UI was developed by KDE, no longer is. therefore we cannot continue using their name or conventions. We need to respect the KDE e.v and their wishes as well.
And by the way pronounciation of TDE sounds awkward... So I'm all
against it. Though I am just a user.
and Guh-Nome and Kay-Dee_Eeh sound better? I think the best solution is to just call it Trinity Desktop :)
Calvin Morrison
2011/12/16 Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com:
On 16 December 2011 07:16, Aleksey Midenkov midenok@gmail.com wrote:
I might be a very ignorant in this topic. But I don't see a justification for the rebranding. The product is *still* KDE on 99.9% with a few bugs fixed. If there will be some large but hidden changes like moving from HAL to UDEV, moving from DCOP to DBUS, XDG compliance, etc. It will be *still* KDE user experience.
Similar code, but it is nNo longer a KDE product
The UI is developed by KDE and the UI is that is valued most here. So this fuss about replacement of K with T bothers me much! And this seem to take too much energy instead of fixing real bugs.
The UI was developed by KDE, no longer is. therefore we cannot continue using their name or conventions. We need to respect the KDE e.v and their wishes as well.
And by the way pronounciation of TDE sounds awkward... So I'm all against it. Though I am just a user.
and Guh-Nome and Kay-Dee_Eeh sound better? I think the best solution is to just call it Trinity Desktop :)
+10
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Calvin Morrison mutantturkey@gmail.com wrote:
On 16 December 2011 07:16, Aleksey Midenkov midenok@gmail.com wrote:
I might be a very ignorant in this topic. But I don't see a justification for the rebranding. The product is *still* KDE on 99.9% with a few bugs fixed. If there will be some large but hidden changes like moving from HAL to UDEV, moving from DCOP to DBUS, XDG compliance, etc. It will be *still* KDE user experience.
Similar code, but it is nNo longer a KDE product
Not from the point of view of regular user such as myself. For me KDE is not firm, not some organisation of people. For me KDE is just the name of program (or suite of programs to be strict). A name that I used for many years. And will use it because everyone knows what is KDE3.5 and not many know what is TDE. And when I say TDE, I need to explain that it is the same as KDE3.5 (with a few bugs fixed, few bugs added).
Is it registered trademark, btw? Is it against law and against wish of KDE group (really?) to keep the name of program as it were? Why someone should relate KDE 3.6 to KDE group if it will be written that it is supported by Trinity group?
And you corrected me that it was developed. Of course it were. It is just my English mistake. But it is still UI that was developed by KDE. And there will be no cardinal changes (if there will be any chages at all). It will be KDE UI on 99.9%. Otherwise there is no sense for this project.
The UI is developed by KDE and the UI is that is valued most here. So this fuss about replacement of K with T bothers me much! And this seem to take too much energy instead of fixing real bugs.
The UI was developed by KDE, no longer is. therefore we cannot continue using their name or conventions. We need to respect the KDE e.v and their wishes as well.
And by the way pronounciation of TDE sounds awkward... So I'm all against it. Though I am just a user.
and Guh-Nome and Kay-Dee_Eeh sound better? I think the best solution is to just call it Trinity Desktop :)
Calvin Morrison
Oh, about pronounciation it is my Russian experience that I forgot to take into account. Excuse me! On Russian it sounds pretty well 'Gnom' and 'KaDeYe'. :)) But 'TeDeYe' is funny! :)
<snip>
Is it registered trademark, btw?
Yes.
Is it against law and against wish of KDE group (really?) to keep the name of program as it were?
Yes.
Why someone should relate KDE 3.6 to KDE group if it will be written that it is supported by Trinity group?
KDE wishes to be associated with the new KDE4 user interface and plasma experience, not the "old" KDE3 interface and traditional desktop computing. By respecting this, we avoid a lot of potential strife and confusion between the KDE and TDE projects.
Remember that for the majority of people a name is a *unique* identifier. KDE cannot refer to two completely different systems designed around incompatible HCI models without causing considerable confusion.
Tim
On Friday 16 December 2011 02:19:50 Darrell Anderson wrote:
My two cents about the logo is I like the current logo with the gears and T. The logo shows our roots to KDE3 but maintains a separate identity.
agreed.
I am not concerned with goofballs misinterpreting what Trinity means. Just about any name can be perceived by fanatics as meaning something "sinister." One rabbi and one blogger have their heads stuffed where the sun doesn't shine. That is not a loss of market share.
+1
werner
On Friday 16 December 2011 01:41:43 Calvin Morrison wrote:
A "planet" - basically it's a feed for all of our different blogs into one page.
good idea, think of e.g. http://planetkde.org/ which can easyly be followed via akregator.
werner
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:20:28 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com
If there's no great hurry, I may try my hand at sketching something over the next few days . . .
Your sketches will be more than welcome. And there is no hurry, since I need to gather my ideas for whole structure of website, not only for layout.
Okay, it took a little longer than I had hoped. So sue me. Here are nine miscellaneous logo mockups:
http://postimage.org/image/5g0xh97rr/
To the best of my knowledge, none of these has any religious connotations unless you want to really stretch things (I did use a gear in a couple of them, but it was carefully designed not to look like the KDE gear). I've placed them on faux-menu-buttons because the menu button is the context in which most users will be seeing the logo most often. Colours and some details could still use adjustment. In addition to "three" and the letter T, I used "fast" (also, "flourishing") as a keyword to work from.
The originals are Inkscape SVG, and if anyone wants to play with them, I can make the file available.
(My favourites? The tree on the bottom left, the triangle on the middle-right, and the sorta-triskele on the bottom right.)
I like the tree one. It has connotations of wisdom, sturdiness and timelessness. Unlike certain other desktop systems for Linux.
- Nigel
2011/12/19 Nigel Stewart nigels.com@gmail.com:
Couting from left to right, from top to bottom I like: 6,7,9
Le lundi 19 décembre 2011, L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
2011/12/19 Nigel Stewart nigels.com@gmail.com:
Couting from left to right, from top to bottom I like: 6,7,9
-------------------------------------------- Hello. Very nice job. 1, 6, 7 and 9, for me.
On 20 December 2011 10:24, Patrick Serru patrick@serru.net wrote:
Le lundi 19 décembre 2011, L0ner sh4dou a écrit :
2011/12/19 Nigel Stewart nigels.com@gmail.com:
Couting from left to right, from top to bottom I like: 6,7,9
Hello. Very nice job. 1, 6, 7 and 9, for me.
I like the Tree. Wisdom.
Okay, it took a little longer than I had hoped. So sue me. Here are nine miscellaneous logo mockups:
Very nice! Professional looking too. :)
I like the one with the gears to maintain a connection to KDE3 historical roots. If the majority vote to move to a new logo then I think the light blue of the old KDE3 logo can help maintain roots to KDE3.
I like the current logo but if a new direction is what others want then that is fine with me. All of these logos look good. :)
Darrell
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:18 PM, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:20:28 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com
If there's no great hurry, I may try my hand at sketching something over the next few days . . .
Your sketches will be more than welcome. And there is no hurry, since I need to gather my ideas for whole structure of website, not only for layout.
Okay, it took a little longer than I had hoped. So sue me. Here are nine miscellaneous logo mockups:
These seem a bit to complex to pass as a logo. As been discussed recently about the icon set, it would be important to keep Crystal SVG and has such have a logo that blends well together style and color wise with the existing theme. Perhaps toning down on the reflections would also help with visual recognition of the logo. I think it is important that whatever comes out of this thread is easily used from 16x16 up to 256x256 pixels, though that is not always possible.
I also rather liked sh4dou's 1st sketch.
Best regards, Tiago
To the best of my knowledge, none of these has any religious connotations unless you want to really stretch things (I did use a gear in a couple of them, but it was carefully designed not to look like the KDE gear). I've placed them on faux-menu-buttons because the menu button is the context in which most users will be seeing the logo most often. Colours and some details could still use adjustment. In addition to "three" and the letter T, I used "fast" (also, "flourishing") as a keyword to work from.
The originals are Inkscape SVG, and if anyone wants to play with them, I can make the file available.
(My favourites? The tree on the bottom left, the triangle on the middle-right, and the sorta-triskele on the bottom right.)
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On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 01:46:48 +0000 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:18 PM, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:20:28 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com
If there's no great hurry, I may try my hand at sketching something over the next few days . . .
Your sketches will be more than welcome. And there is no hurry, since I need to gather my ideas for whole structure of website, not only for layout.
Okay, it took a little longer than I had hoped. So sue me. Here are nine miscellaneous logo mockups:
These seem a bit to complex to pass as a logo. As been discussed recently about the icon set, it would be important to keep Crystal SVG and has such have a logo that blends well together style and color wise with the existing theme. Perhaps toning down on the reflections would also help with visual recognition of the logo. I think it is important that whatever comes out of this thread is easily used from 16x16 up to 256x256 pixels, though that is not always possible.
I am forced to ask--did you actually try scaling them? The tree, triangle, and triskele designs, which received the most votes, remain recognizable at 16x16 (little details like the tree's leaves and the triskele's loops are inevitably lost, but the overall shapes remain clear). Details like colour and reflection are easy to change--it's the basic shape that's important in a logo.
Based on your reaction, I suspect that what I presented actually looks too finished. That's my fault, though--really, I know better.
I also rather liked sh4dou's 1st sketch.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Eventually, someone's going to have to tally the votes and hand them over to Timothy for a decision, but I don't think there's any hurry.
I didn't scale it, no. That's a bigger issue though, as you can see from Crystal SVG some cards have different versions for smaller icons, to improve the icon's clarity. Sometimes it's warranted, sometimes it's not.
Based on your reaction, I suspect that what I presented actually looks too finished. That's my fault, though--really, I know better.
I mean that I thought these were final designs?
Best regards, Tiago
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 2:43 PM, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 01:46:48 +0000 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:18 PM, E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:20:28 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
2011/12/15 E. Liddell ejlddll@googlemail.com
If there's no great hurry, I may try my hand at sketching something over the next few days . . .
Your sketches will be more than welcome. And there is no hurry, since I need to gather my ideas for whole structure of website, not only
for
layout.
Okay, it took a little longer than I had hoped. So sue me. Here are
nine
miscellaneous logo mockups:
These seem a bit to complex to pass as a logo. As been discussed recently about the icon set, it would be important to keep Crystal SVG and has
such
have a logo that blends well together style and color wise with the existing theme. Perhaps toning down on the reflections would also help
with
visual recognition of the logo. I think it is important that whatever
comes
out of this thread is easily used from 16x16 up to 256x256 pixels, though that is not always possible.
I am forced to ask--did you actually try scaling them? The tree, triangle, and triskele designs, which received the most votes, remain recognizable at 16x16 (little details like the tree's leaves and the triskele's loops are inevitably lost, but the overall shapes remain clear). Details like colour and reflection are easy to change--it's the basic shape that's important in a logo.
Based on your reaction, I suspect that what I presented actually looks too finished. That's my fault, though--really, I know better.
I also rather liked sh4dou's 1st sketch.
I think this is the heart of the matter. Eventually, someone's going to have to tally the votes and hand them over to Timothy for a decision, but I don't think there's any hurry.
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On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:37:49 +0000 Tiago Marques tiagomnm@gmail.com wrote:
I didn't scale it, no. That's a bigger issue though, as you can see from Crystal SVG some cards have different versions for smaller icons, to improve the icon's clarity. Sometimes it's warranted, sometimes it's not.
Regardless, this is something to worry about after a final selection is made.
Based on your reaction, I suspect that what I presented actually looks too finished. That's my fault, though--really, I know better.
I mean that I thought these were final designs?
It's something they warn you against in design school: presenting something that looks too finished at an early stage can convince the client that all aspects of the design are already set in stone. In this case, everything I posted was a first draft--just a very polished-looking one--and I'm quite happy to make changes if anyone has any specific complaints.
It might not be a bad idea to follow the suggestion made in one of the other threads and repost the current set of logo candidates--both mine and sh4dou's--to the users' list and ask for votes/comments/other candidates (after all, logo design doesn't require coding skills!), but I'm too tired to do it tonight.
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 23:57:28 +0100 L0ner sh4dou sh4dou@gmail.com wrote:
Since I'm trying to come up with an idea for new [a little more modern, and not looking like it was made in 2003 (no offense to creator intended)] Trinity website I'd like some help. What I need is a logo, a symbol for Trinity. And one that is not religious (since the name was understood as a religious one once). The current logo is a no-no IMO since it's a too big reference to the KDE logo (gears) and it just kde3.5 logo with a "T" instead of "K". It should be something simple and easy to remember. I know I might be demanding too much, but I think it's a good idea to come up with something together.
Hmmm . . . Maybe something involving a triangle, to emphasise the whole "three" notion (which would hopefully connect the word "trinity" back to something other than religion)? Also, might it perhaps be of benefit to choose colours different from those favoured by the KDE project (even if it's just a different blue, like navy or teal)?
If there's no great hurry, I may try my hand at sketching something over the next few days . . .
-
/dev/ammo42 -
Aleksey Midenkov -
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
E. Liddell -
L0ner sh4dou -
Marvin L Jones -
Nicolas Bercher -
Nigel Stewart -
Patrick Serru -
Robert Xu -
Tiago Marques -
Timothy Pearson -
Werner Joss