20 May
2012
20 May
'12
5:24 a.m.
Tim,
The manhunt had begun -- What had happened to Tim? TDE GIT -> dead, mailing
list -> dead, Tim -> ? We were beginning to worry... What's up?
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
20 May
20 May
5:53 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
We need a contingency plan. Snail mail ;)
Calvin
On May 20, 2012 1:24 AM, "David C. Rankin"
<drankinatty(a)suddenlinkmail.com>
wrote:
Tim,
The manhunt had begun -- What had happened to Tim? TDE GIT -> dead,
mailing
list -> dead, Tim -> ? We were beginning to worry... What's up?
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
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6:05 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
Tim,
The manhunt had begun -- What had happened to Tim? TDE GIT -> dead,
mailing
list -> dead, Tim -> ? We were beginning to worry... What's up?
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Nothing serious on this end fortunately. :-)
The ISP that services the TDE server cluster had a localized equipment
failure, but instead of trying to fix the outage they decided to blame the
customer (me). This prolonged the outage significantly, even though in
the end it did turn out to be upstream ISP equipment failure.
I do apologize for the outage; as you are probably aware the TDE services
can only utilize a single carrier due to the long-term contractual expense
of bringing out a redundant service provider to the server location.
Tim
5:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
On 05/20/2012 01:05 AM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
Nothing serious on this end fortunately. :-)
The ISP that services the TDE server cluster had a localized equipment
failure, but instead of trying to fix the outage they decided to blame the
customer (me). This prolonged the outage significantly, even though in
the end it did turn out to be upstream ISP equipment failure.
I do apologize for the outage; as you are probably aware the TDE services
can only utilize a single carrier due to the long-term contractual expense
of bringing out a redundant service provider to the server location.
Tim
Have we approached any of the high-bandwidth Universities or OpenSource outfits
to see if they would be willing to provide mirror services? I see so many
run-of-the-mill projects that have mirror services all over the world. It sure
seems like a favorable project like TDE would be a prime candidate to be
accepted and helped by some of these institutions.
For my learning, if somebody can mirror, would all that would need to be done is
to have some cron job push TDE to the mirror to keep it updated, or is there
more to it than that? I see a mirror as just (storage + band width). For TDE,
that's about 8G in storage. Is that about it?
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
6:31 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
On 05/20/2012 01:05 AM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
<snip>
We do mirror most of our static binary content on a worldwide mirror
system. However, most of the TDE services are dynamic (GIT, Wiki, mailing
lists, searchable documentation, IRC, bugtracker, patch lists, etc.) and
therefore cannot (easily/safely) be mirrored.
Good idea though!
Tim
Nothing serious on this end fortunately. :-)
The ISP that services the TDE server cluster had a localized equipment
failure, but instead of trying to fix the outage they decided to blame
the
customer (me). This prolonged the outage significantly, even though in
the end it did turn out to be upstream ISP equipment failure.
I do apologize for the outage; as you are probably aware the TDE
services
can only utilize a single carrier due to the long-term contractual
expense
of bringing out a redundant service provider to the server location.
Tim
Have we approached any of the high-bandwidth Universities or OpenSource
outfits
to see if they would be willing to provide mirror services? I see so many
run-of-the-mill projects that have mirror services all over the world. It
sure
seems like a favorable project like TDE would be a prime candidate to be
accepted and helped by some of these institutions. 
21 May
21 May
12:23 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
--- On Sun, 5/20/12, Timothy Pearson <kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
From: Timothy Pearson
<kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net>
Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Date: Sunday, May 20, 2012, 1:31 PM
Universities or OpenSource
I'm not concerned about the type of outage we experienced. Those things happen.
If the recent outage was a hosting plan squabble and you still had normal customer ISP
access, then a personal email to somebody would have helped to pass the word as much as
possible. If you lost personal services too, then perhaps a trip to the library or local
coffee shop would have been in order to send an email or leave a message in IRC.
The recent outage leaves me concerned about what we can do should something serious happen
long-term. Nasty weather and natural disasters could disrupt an ISP connection for days,
weeks, or months. Serious illness could keep you out of touch too.
We need a basic contingency plan. Something so the project stays alive and the remaining
participants are not left hanging.
When the outage occurred I had the latest (known) GIT sources. Worst case then the project
could have move toward some kind of restoration with that, minus a few patches. Yet when I
think about the bug tracker, etherpad, wiki, and mail list archives disappearing then I do
not feel so comfortable.
Granted, part of what we do is dynamic, but not so much that a basic contingency plan
can't restore.
Currently we have two domains: www.pearsoncomputing.net and www.trinitydesktop.org. If
both are housed from the same location/ISP, then we become dependent upon those people not
to get a bug up their backside. Perhaps we can move one domain elsewhere. Basically,
diversify --- don't put all our eggs in one basket.
We do not need to mirror everything in the traditional sense. Some work-arounds would save
the project.
For example, some of us can rsync our local GIT tree at least daily or more often. We
don't need to "mirror" those sources if several of us do that. GIT is a
distributed system so all we need are people keeping synced.
Losing the bug tracker would be a huge challenge. Is there a way some of us can rsync or
spider the bug tracker to our personal systems? Likewise for the wiki, etherpad, mail list
archives. Such efforts would be the equivalent of a backup system.
None of this need cost additional funds. We just need a way for several project members to
rsync/spider files. Should disaster strike we then have a way to get us back on our feet.
I don't want to make mountains out of molehills. I'm just asking that as a group
we consider basic stewardship. :-)
Darrell
On 05/20/2012 01:05 AM, Timothy
Pearson
wrote:
> Nothing serious on this end fortunately. :-)
>
> The ISP that services the TDE server cluster had a
localized equipment
> failure, but instead of trying to fix the
outage
they decided to blame
> the
> customer (me). This prolonged the outage
significantly, even though in
> the end it did turn out to be upstream ISP
equipment failure.
>
> I do apologize for the outage; as you are probably
aware the TDE
> services
> can only utilize a single carrier due to the
long-term contractual
> expense
> of bringing out a redundant service provider to the
server location.
Tim
Have we approached any of the high-bandwidth outfits
to see if they would be willing to provide mirror
services? I see so many
run-of-the-mill projects that have mirror
services all
over the world. It
sure
seems like a favorable project like TDE would be a
prime candidate to be
accepted and helped by some of these
institutions.
<snip>
We do mirror most of our static binary content on a
worldwide mirror system. However, most of the TDE services are dynamic
(GIT, Wiki, mailing lists, searchable documentation, IRC, bugtracker, patch
lists, etc.) and therefore cannot (easily/safely) be mirrored.
Good idea though!
12:36 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
The bug tracker can be exported and imported as XML files!
I'm a firm believer in a VPS for trinity in the long run. Most offer 99.9%
guarantee uptime and are cheap enough that for probably around hundred to
two hundred a year we could have a stable web server. This would hold
bugzilla, website whatever else. Also the connections are business class so
no more slow website under heavy load.
I know funding would be the major blocker would in that idea.
Calvin
On May 20, 2012 8:23 PM, "Darrell Anderson" <humanreadable(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:
--- On Sun, 5/20/12, Timothy Pearson <kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
From: Timothy Pearson
<kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net>
Subject: Re: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
Date: Sunday, May 20, 2012, 1:31 PM
Universities or OpenSource
patch
On 05/20/2012 01:05 AM, Timothy
Pearson
wrote:
> Nothing serious on this end fortunately. :-)
>
> The ISP that services the TDE server cluster had a
localized equipment
> failure, but instead of trying to fix the
outage
they decided to blame
> the
> customer (me). This prolonged the outage
significantly, even though in
> the end it did turn out to be upstream ISP
equipment failure.
>
> I do apologize for the outage; as you are probably
aware the TDE
> services
> can only utilize a single carrier due to the
long-term contractual
> expense
> of bringing out a redundant service provider to the
server location.
Tim
Have we approached any of the high-bandwidth outfits
to see if they would be willing to provide mirror
services? I see so many
run-of-the-mill projects that have mirror
services all
over the world. It
sure
seems like a favorable project like TDE would be a
prime candidate to be
accepted and helped by some of these
institutions.
<snip>
We do mirror most of our static binary content on a
worldwide mirror system. However, most of the TDE services are dynamic
(GIT, Wiki, mailing lists, searchable documentation, IRC, bugtracker, lists, etc.) and therefore cannot (easily/safely)
be mirrored.
Good idea though!
I'm not concerned about the type of outage we experienced. Those things
happen.
If the recent outage was a hosting plan squabble and you still had normal
customer ISP access, then a personal email to somebody would have helped to
pass the word as much as possible. If you lost personal services too, then
perhaps a trip to the library or local coffee shop would have been in order
to send an email or leave a message in IRC.
The recent outage leaves me concerned about what we can do should
something serious happen long-term. Nasty weather and natural disasters
could disrupt an ISP connection for days, weeks, or months. Serious illness
could keep you out of touch too.
We need a basic contingency plan. Something so the project stays alive and
the remaining participants are not left hanging.
When the outage occurred I had the latest (known) GIT sources. Worst case
then the project could have move toward some kind of restoration with that,
minus a few patches. Yet when I think about the bug tracker, etherpad,
wiki, and mail list archives disappearing then I do not feel so comfortable.
Granted, part of what we do is dynamic, but not so much that a basic
contingency plan can't restore.
Currently we have two domains: www.pearsoncomputing.net and
www.trinitydesktop.org. If both are housed from the same location/ISP,
then we become dependent upon those people not to get a bug up their
backside. Perhaps we can move one domain elsewhere. Basically, diversify
--- don't put all our eggs in one basket.
We do not need to mirror everything in the traditional sense. Some
work-arounds would save the project.
For example, some of us can rsync our local GIT tree at least daily or
more often. We don't need to "mirror" those sources if several of us do
that. GIT is a distributed system so all we need are people keeping synced.
Losing the bug tracker would be a huge challenge. Is there a way some of
us can rsync or spider the bug tracker to our personal systems? Likewise
for the wiki, etherpad, mail list archives. Such efforts would be the
equivalent of a backup system.
None of this need cost additional funds. We just need a way for several
project members to rsync/spider files. Should disaster strike we then have
a way to get us back on our feet.
I don't want to make mountains out of molehills. I'm just asking that as a
group we consider basic stewardship. :-)
Darrell
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1:42 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
The bug tracker can be exported and imported as XML
files!
I'm a firm believer in a VPS for trinity in the long run. Most offer 99.9%
guarantee uptime and are cheap enough that for probably around hundred to
two hundred a year we could have a stable web server. This would hold
bugzilla, website whatever else. Also the connections are business class
so
no more slow website under heavy load.
I know funding would be the major blocker would in that idea.
Calvin
"Business class" does not mean "fast". I have "business
class" to the TDE
servers already.
The cost will be much, much higher BTW, as you would also need to factor
in a very high bandwidth connection from the servers that remain here
(build farm, etc.) to the VPS. This could easily run upwards of
$1000/month.
Tim
7:56 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
On 21/05/12 02:42, Timothy Pearson wrote:
How much bandwidth and storage are needed by Trinity, or its various
sections?
The bug
tracker can be exported and imported as XML files!
I'm a firm believer in a VPS for trinity in the long run. Most offer 99.9%
guarantee uptime and are cheap enough that for probably around hundred to
two hundred a year we could have a stable web server. This would hold
bugzilla, website whatever else. Also the connections are business class
so
no more slow website under heavy load.
I know funding would be the major blocker would in that idea.
Calvin
"Business class" does not mean "fast". I have "business
class" to the TDE
servers already.
The cost will be much, much higher BTW, as you would also need to factor
in a very high bandwidth connection from the servers that remain here
(build farm, etc.) to the VPS. This could easily run upwards of
$1000/month.
9:01 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
On 21/05/12 02:42, Timothy Pearson wrote:
How much bandwidth and storage are needed by Trinity, or its various
sections?
Storage runs into the Terabyte range. Upload bandwidth runs at a
*minimum* 300GB/month and download is several times that.
Needless to say, not cheap. ;-)
Tim
The bug
tracker can be exported and imported as XML files!
I'm a firm believer in a VPS for trinity in the long run. Most offer
99.9%
guarantee uptime and are cheap enough that for probably around hundred
to
two hundred a year we could have a stable web server. This would hold
bugzilla, website whatever else. Also the connections are business
class
so
no more slow website under heavy load.
I know funding would be the major blocker would in that idea.
Calvin
"Business class" does not mean "fast". I have "business
class" to the
TDE
servers already.
The cost will be much, much higher BTW, as you would also need to factor
in a very high bandwidth connection from the servers that remain here
(build farm, etc.) to the VPS. This could easily run upwards of
$1000/month.
22 May
22 May
2:06 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
On 05/21/2012 04:01 PM, Timothy Pearson wrote:
Storage runs into the Terabyte range. Upload
bandwidth runs at a
*minimum* 300GB/month and download is several times that.
Needless to say, not cheap. ;-)
Tim
That's what sparked the thought of approaching some of the Univ. with strong
comp. sci. programs to see if any were interested in (1) using the project as
part of some undergraduate/graduate level desktop design curriculum and (2)
providing a mirror for the code. I see the benefit as many-fold, (1) TDE
benefits from the brainpower of the students and faculty involved, (2) young
minds, fresh ideas, (3) exposure of many, many more young folks to TDE/expansion
of the user base, and (4) the tangential storage and bandwidth contribution if
they pick up the project.
Best of all -- the cost...
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
4:32 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
Needless to
say, not cheap. ;-)
That's what sparked the thought of approaching some of the
Univ. with strong comp. sci. programs to see if any were interested in (1)
using the project as part of some undergraduate/graduate level desktop design
curriculum and (2) providing a mirror for the code. I see the benefit as
many-fold, (1) TDE benefits from the brainpower of the students and faculty
involved, (2) young minds, fresh ideas, (3) exposure of many, many more young
folks to TDE/expansion of the user base, and (4) the tangential storage and
bandwidth contribution if they pick up the project.
Best of all -- the cost...
9:29 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Que Pasa Bro -- What be the Story Tim?
On 05/22/2012 11:32 AM, Darrell Anderson wrote:
Consider contacting the people at the Oregon State
University Open Source Lab. If we offer to meet costs, even partial, I suspect they will
be willing to host our services. They might still be willing even if we don't offer
simply because of the nature of our project. But as we now do pay our own expenses, more
or less, I believe we should offer to cover costs as much as we can pay.
OSUOSL is popular and dependable.
I'm not affiliated with them in any way. OSUOSL is one of the primary mirrors for
Slackware. Hence my familiarity.
Darrell
All right,
I should have a little time next week to put out a few feelers to the univ.
folks. I'll report back with the efforts.
--
David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
4362
days inactive
4364
days old
12 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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David C. Rankin -
Timothy Pearson