Hi All!
golinux asked me to forward this message to the TDE mailing list :-)
Nik
To: trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Subject: TDE on Devuan Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 13:37:29 -0500 From: golinux@dyne.org
Greetings from the Devuan project!
Several Devuan users have chosen TDE as their DE. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp has even customized the 'Plastic' theme to match the default Devuan desktop! Devuan Stable will be released soon and then we will turn our attention to Ascii (Stretch). If TDE is compatible with Ascii (not entangled with systemd) we are hoping to get it packaged so users will be able to install TDE directly from our repos. Thanks for providing a viable alternative!
Cheers!
golinux
Great news... and I hope things work out so that they can offer Trinity/ Devuan packages.
I have been using Devuan and Trinity for the last 6 months with no problems--actually even less problems than I had with Debian. I just upgraded to the latest Devuan release--again with no problems.
But, I have found that if you want absolutely no problems with the combination, you should install Devuan and Trinity on a clean system, bare metal so to speak. I did that with the latest RC release and had less configuration issues than I did when I upgraded Debian and Trinity to Devuan and Trinity 14.04 in place.
Keith
On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp office@klepp.biz wrote:
Hi All!
golinux asked me to forward this message to the TDE mailing list :-)
Nik
To: trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Subject: TDE on Devuan Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 13:37:29 -0500 From: golinux@dyne.org
Greetings from the Devuan project!
Several Devuan users have chosen TDE as their DE. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp has even customized the 'Plastic' theme to match the default Devuan desktop! Devuan Stable will be released soon and then we will turn our attention to Ascii (Stretch). If TDE is compatible with Ascii (not entangled with systemd) we are hoping to get it packaged so users will be able to install TDE directly from our repos. Thanks for providing a viable alternative!
Cheers!
golinux
-- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ...
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i noted the trinity packages (until i know) install and assumed the path on /opt this behavior was fixed?
Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO) http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com
2017-05-12 17:41 GMT-04:00 Keith Daniels keithwdaniels@gmail.com:
Great news... and I hope things work out so that they can offer Trinity/ Devuan packages.
I have been using Devuan and Trinity for the last 6 months with no problems--actually even less problems than I had with Debian. I just upgraded to the latest Devuan release--again with no problems.
But, I have found that if you want absolutely no problems with the combination, you should install Devuan and Trinity on a clean system, bare metal so to speak. I did that with the latest RC release and had less configuration issues than I did when I upgraded Debian and Trinity to Devuan and Trinity 14.04 in place.
Keith
On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp office@klepp.biz wrote:
Hi All!
golinux asked me to forward this message to the TDE mailing list :-)
Nik
To: trinity-users@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Subject: TDE on Devuan Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 13:37:29 -0500 From: golinux@dyne.org
Greetings from the Devuan project!
Several Devuan users have chosen TDE as their DE. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp has even customized the 'Plastic' theme to match the default Devuan desktop! Devuan Stable will be released soon and then we will turn our attention to Ascii (Stretch). If TDE is compatible with Ascii (not entangled with systemd) we are hoping to get it packaged so users will be able to install TDE directly from our repos. Thanks for providing a viable alternative!
Cheers!
golinux
-- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ...
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@list s.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pears oncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsonco mputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputin g.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Keith Daniels keithwdaniels@gmail.com wrote:
But, I have found that if you want absolutely no problems with the combination, you should install Devuan and Trinity on a clean system, bare metal so to speak.
yehyeah, i can attest to that: likewise i ran into problems with a devuan/testing system 18 months (or so) ago, it wouldn't actually install trinity *at all* due to package conflicts.
basically this is the usual issue with having separate package repositories that are not compiled often enough: the fact that there are *two* completely separate repositories means that anyone who wants to use devuan/testing - which will be critical moving forward for anyone doing any kind of software development or for anyone who wishes to e.g. use the absolute latest CUPS drivers for example so that their MODERN printers work - is basically SOL.
this can be entirely solved by *devuan* adding the TDE packages to devuan/testing... and compiling them on their own server farms, signing them with *their* package keys.
but yes, please: fix the darn /opt path first!! libraries should go in /usr/lib/tde (or somesuch), qt3 should go in /usr/lib/qt3 to keep the namespaces totally separate from qt4, qt5, and so on.
l.
Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO) http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com
2017-05-14 14:44 GMT-04:30 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
this can be entirely solved by *devuan* adding the TDE packages to devuan/testing... and compiling them on their own server farms, signing them with *their* package keys.
will be the firts time TDE will be supported and includen in a distribution.. there's any distribution that include it yet since years
but yes, please: fix the darn /opt path first!! libraries should go in /usr/lib/tde (or somesuch), qt3 should go in /usr/lib/qt3 to keep the namespaces totally separate from qt4, qt5, and so on.
maybe this are the main reason.. among others like too much focus on features window-like and less improvements,
by example there's not modem-manager improvements.. today that any phone acts like a modem for computer.. or the VPN configuration still are poor informative when a new incoming TDE user try to connecting to sonicwall
l.
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Re: PICCORO's and Luke's comments
In general I agree with both of them, but... The improvements and fixes, that they and others want (me too), are beyond the resources that are currently available. As technology improves (or maybe I should say "keeps changing") the problems with TDE will get worse. Continuing to Kludge things, just to get around new software conflicts and other changes--yet still keep TDE working--can only last so long and go so far.
I personally want to keep TDE on my computer until I die, and that is looking more difficult everyday. My solution, which I suggest the TDE staff looks into, is using containers, like Docker, to encapsulate TDE with all the software that it needs to function correctly. When you do that, upgrading software outside the container, does not alter what happens inside the container, which cures all of the issues like installing a newer version of GTK or QT trashing TDE. When you use containers, you no longer need to create individual versions or packages of TDE for every Distro.
This fall I plan on creating my own TDE container that will sit on top of Devuan. If all works well I will share that TDE container as well as the complete TDE/Devuan setup, with anyone that wants it.
Keith
On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 12:30 PM, PICCORO McKAY Lenz <mckaygerhard@gmail.com
wrote:
Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO) http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com
2017-05-14 14:44 GMT-04:30 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
this can be entirely solved by *devuan* adding the TDE packages to devuan/testing... and compiling them on their own server farms, signing them with *their* package keys.
will be the firts time TDE will be supported and includen in a distribution.. there's any distribution that include it yet since years
but yes, please: fix the darn /opt path first!! libraries should go in /usr/lib/tde (or somesuch), qt3 should go in /usr/lib/qt3 to keep the namespaces totally separate from qt4, qt5, and so on.
maybe this are the main reason.. among others like too much focus on features window-like and less improvements,
by example there's not modem-manager improvements.. today that any phone acts like a modem for computer.. or the VPN configuration still are poor informative when a new incoming TDE user try to connecting to sonicwall
l.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@list s.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pears oncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsonco mputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputin g.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
containers are waste of resources.. i not have enought ram, disc, or power cpu in my desktop.. in my job we have many power, ram.. but at my home i only have two machines and i not spend money on a new machine.. for mayority of countries are very spensive
not all the people like the "keep changing" politics.. i like KDE3 but TDE does not solve many bugs in last KDE->TDE years.. kpp, kphone, knetwork.mananger
i like to see more resolved problems rather than put "lauch task manager" from the panel! sorry for the noise, but i see a little hope to see Devuan or Debian TDE package.. but as i note.. more time will be passed until TDE will get officialy in a distro repository
Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO) http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com
2017-06-17 21:58 GMT-04:00 Keith Daniels keithwdaniels@gmail.com:
Re: PICCORO's and Luke's comments
In general I agree with both of them, but... The improvements and fixes, that they and others want (me too), are beyond the resources that are currently available. As technology improves (or maybe I should say "keeps changing") the problems with TDE will get worse. Continuing to Kludge things, just to get around new software conflicts and other changes--yet still keep TDE working--can only last so long and go so far.
I personally want to keep TDE on my computer until I die, and that is looking more difficult everyday. My solution, which I suggest the TDE staff looks into, is using containers, like Docker, to encapsulate TDE with all the software that it needs to function correctly. When you do that, upgrading software outside the container, does not alter what happens inside the container, which cures all of the issues like installing a newer version of GTK or QT trashing TDE. When you use containers, you no longer need to create individual versions or packages of TDE for every Distro.
This fall I plan on creating my own TDE container that will sit on top of Devuan. If all works well I will share that TDE container as well as the complete TDE/Devuan setup, with anyone that wants it.
Keith
On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 12:30 PM, PICCORO McKAY Lenz < mckaygerhard@gmail.com> wrote:
Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO) http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com
2017-05-14 14:44 GMT-04:30 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton lkcl@lkcl.net:
this can be entirely solved by *devuan* adding the TDE packages to devuan/testing... and compiling them on their own server farms, signing them with *their* package keys.
will be the firts time TDE will be supported and includen in a distribution.. there's any distribution that include it yet since years
but yes, please: fix the darn /opt path first!! libraries should go in /usr/lib/tde (or somesuch), qt3 should go in /usr/lib/qt3 to keep the namespaces totally separate from qt4, qt5, and so on.
maybe this are the main reason.. among others like too much focus on features window-like and less improvements,
by example there's not modem-manager improvements.. today that any phone acts like a modem for computer.. or the VPN configuration still are poor informative when a new incoming TDE user try to connecting to sonicwall
l.
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Keith Daniels wrote:
When you use containers, you no longer need to create individual versions or packages of TDE for every Distro.
I was thinking of this few days ago, but in different context. As PICCORO McKAY Lenz stated a container is waste of resources, however what you use is your own decision, so perhaps you could setup a build env and try to produce the packages for devuan or what you think might be useful and go for it as proof of concept. I personally use chroot for building packages and vmware to test and I think it is sufficient. Containers are cool, but I don't see advantage in maintaining such overhead. I can of course speak only for myself. At the end I want to have TDE native and not in some kind of virtual env.
regards
deloptes:
Proof of concept is exactly what I am going to do this fall. Right now I am mostly interested in how containers work and what they can do--later this fall I will get into how to use them.
Re: resources
What you say might be true, but most people don't seem to use most of their resources, me included. So I want to test if containers, especially several different ones running at the same time, do bad things to usability--under normal working conditions--and if so, why and what can be done about it.
Keith
On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 1:54 PM, deloptes deloptes@gmail.com wrote:
Keith Daniels wrote:
When you use containers, you no longer need to create individual versions or packages of TDE for every Distro.
I was thinking of this few days ago, but in different context. As PICCORO McKAY Lenz stated a container is waste of resources, however what you use is your own decision, so perhaps you could setup a build env and try to produce the packages for devuan or what you think might be useful and go for it as proof of concept. I personally use chroot for building packages and vmware to test and I think it is sufficient. Containers are cool, but I don't see advantage in maintaining such overhead. I can of course speak only for myself. At the end I want to have TDE native and not in some kind of virtual env.
regards
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Keith Daniels wrote:
What you say might be true, but most people don't seem to use most of their resources, me included. So I want to test if containers, especially several different ones running at the same time, do bad things to usability--under normal working conditions--and if so, why and what can be done about it.
It depends on the context. If you are using a notebook with about 8-16GB RAM and 4 core CPU ... there is no much room for containers. If you are using a server with 128GB RAM and 32 CPUs ... that would make sense, but I doubt avg user has such a machine at home
regards
-
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Keith Daniels -
Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton -
PICCORO McKAY Lenz