18 Sep
2014
18 Sep
'14
8:38 p.m.
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Am Donnerstag, 18. September 2014 schrieb Curt
Howland:
I don't see how they could get away with this on servers; uptime is
typically measured in hundreds of days here and is only interrupted when a
kernel update is required (e.g. when upgrading to another Debian/Ubuntu
version).
TDE will not intentionally introduce a hard dependency on systemd;
personally I hate the DBUS design and implementation and have avoided it
wherever possible. Even the new hardware library can have all
DBUS-related code disabled (albeit with some loss in functionality).
Tim
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Mike Bird
<mgb-trinity(a)yosemite.net>
wrote:
Just some system-rafiness from debian jessie:
Logfiles are binary. So you can't simply boot with a live disto and look
at the logfiles. Better even, there are no persistent logfiles by default.
Well, who would care to look at logfiles, anyway?
systemd/logind/journald/networkd/usersession share PID 1. Great, if
somthing there goes haywire you have to reboot the system, 'cause you
cannot kill one of these processes individually. On the other hand, who
would ever have a system running more than a week, now that it's booting
so fast? Well, and for the Windows user we have implemented the "reboot
after upgrade"-feature at last. Now isn't that great?
Maybe these points are of no value for desktop users, but it's essential
in my business that systems run reliably and can quite well be fixed
remotely. That's not the case with systemd any more. It's diametrically to
unix philosophy. It's more like "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to
find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" than
"Freedom of choice"
If systemd will become mandatory on Debian I already see myself packing
things up and move to an other Unix land. Well, hopefully TDE will work on
FreeBSD or OpenBSD then :-)
Nik Gnu/Linux probably does need a new init, and
something along the
lines of the core 1% of systemd with optional cgroups support would
be a good approach.
Just like X, sysvinit was proclaimed in need of replacement many years
ago, for many reasons.
The problem is that the functionality of these packages has been built
over time to answer particular problems. Any new system is going to
have to go through exactly the same process, the slow evolution of
"Gee, I didn't think anyone used it for that."
Sysvinit allowed for parallel boot without changing "everything". And
it's especially good at being able to change pretty much any single
component without a reboot.
This kind of flexibility will, I believe, turn out to be more
important than the systemd developers believe it to be.
I will echo that, being just a user, I am happy to use whatever works.
I thank Tim and Slávek and others for making TDE
optionally work
with systemd without depending upon systemd - unlike Debian where
systemd proponents are frantically changing packages to unnecessarily
require systemd.
Indeed. Thank you.
Curt-
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