Re: [trinity-users] Kmenu Reasoning Explained

On 01/23/2011 07:05 AM, Katheryne Draven wrote: <snip> Exactly, the key is balance. I understand that people have personal preference for "more or less" or "standard menu verses kickoff", but there is no replacement for a clean default menu. When a menu expands to 2 columns, my eyes glaze over hunting for the app I want hoping like heck that it is "Named" correctly. Desktops get completely unusable very quickly when know applications get hidden under some ridiculous "Description - Name" layout in whatever menu you use. For example, in July, my apps disappeared and this was what greeted me in lost+found: [131k] http://www.3111skyline.com/dl/arch/bugs/kde3-lost+found-menu.jpg One thing that absolutely drove me crazy with the kickoff style menu was everything was hidden from view and it was (and still is unnavigable). Even with icon size reduced to 22-28, you click on System and only see the first 8 or so submenus or entries and then you have to 'scroll' hoping what you want is somewhere further down in the list and then repeat the process until you find the right menu or submenu. Horribly inefficient. The 'search' feature fails in this regard because if you use it, it doesn't tell you where the app you found lives. That's one of the reasons I have always preferred the traditional kmenu over kickoff -- it was much more visual. Another issue with kickoff is the 'Favorite' view. If what you want is already in your favorites, then your fine, but it not, then it is back to the game of hide-and-seek. The default kickoff is basically empty. So for the new user, you are forced to go 'build a menu' before it becomes usable. Then the limitations of the kickoff become apparent. If you use no more than 10 apps, you will probably be OK after you add everything to the favorites. If you use more, then it is back to hunting for apps or scrolling through a list that extends out of site defeating the 'fly-out' auto opening of subs for access. I respect Robert's input here. (I assume Robert means a maxdepth of 2 (toplevel + 1-sublevel) when speaking of 'no more than one submenu') When I click on a menu or submenu, I only want to see a dozen or so entries. At most -- a single column on a 900 px height display. If the menu entries are logical and descriptive, I don't think a maxdepth of 3 is necessary, even considering the number of utilities and apps that need a home in the menu. I think it can all be done with: Development ------------ quick list of 3-5 most used apps ------------ Submenu1 Submenu2 Submenu3 ... Education ------------ quick list of 3-5 most used apps ------------ Submenu1 Submenu2 Submenu3 ... Games ------------ quick list of 3-5 most used apps ------------ Submenu1 Submenu2 Submenu3 .. etc... The key here is toplevel design. When you click on kmenu +1 What does put them off, is being bombarded by Well put. <snip> dumbed down = frustratingly useless No one expects to go into any desktop and not expect some type of learning curve. Logic and clarity minimizes the frustration and allows the reasonable user to find the app or information they need with the minimum of learning. You can 'focus group' what the 'average joe' thinks is the correct name for a menu or application should be to the point of absurdity and then end up with menu entries like "My Computer" that pop up more windows and tabs and buttons that eventually show you a MAC address (or whatever). The point being, providing a logical working menu that correctly identifies and categorizes applications and information is far easier to learn than some esoteric set of 'cute' names that eventually lead somewhere. (you can memorize the telephone book with enough effort, but once you have succeeded, you have actually learned nothing except how to memorize) That is why I applaud this effort and think the result will, while keeping Robert's caution about "how Fedora butcher's theirs" in mind, be one of the best standardizations that Trinity can do. <snip> I think you are doing a fantastic job and taking the right approach -- soapbox and all. I can't wait to see what results. (Now back to figuring out how to build trinity on Arch so I can dump the old version of KDEmod3 for good :-)