Whenever my screen locks (e.g. from my screen saver or from manually locking) and I go to unlock, I'm told to press CTRL+ALT+Del, and it says it's displaying that so the login screen doesn't get spoofed.
When logging out, I get a window saying it's saving my settings.
Both of these remind me of WinXP. The CTRL+ALT+Del thing is of WinNT (XP is based on NT).
Is there a way to turn this off?
Also, if the CTRL+ALT+Del thing is used for unlocking, why not too for logging in?
Whenever my screen locks (e.g. from my screen saver or from manually locking) and I go to unlock, I'm told to press CTRL+ALT+Del, and it says it's displaying that so the login screen doesn't get spoofed.
When logging out, I get a window saying it's saving my settings.
Both of these remind me of WinXP. The CTRL+ALT+Del thing is of WinNT (XP is based on NT).
Is there a way to turn this off?
Also, if the CTRL+ALT+Del thing is used for unlocking, why not too for logging in?
It is normally used for both unlock and login. It is a generic implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK), without which Linux is actually less secure than Windows.
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control center module.
Tim
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 10:47:12 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Whenever my screen locks (e.g. from my screen saver or from manually locking) and I go to unlock, I'm told to press CTRL+ALT+Del, and it says it's displaying that so the login screen doesn't get spoofed.
When logging out, I get a window saying it's saving my settings.
Both of these remind me of WinXP. The CTRL+ALT+Del thing is of WinNT (XP is based on NT).
Is there a way to turn this off?
Also, if the CTRL+ALT+Del thing is used for unlocking, why not too for logging in?
It is normally used for both unlock and login. It is a generic implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK), without which Linux is actually less secure than Windows.
Never heard of it, nor have I ever seen CTRL+ALT+Del in Linux
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control center module.
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
It is normally used for both unlock and login.
It is a generic
implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK),
without which Linux is
actually less secure than Windows.
Never heard of it, nor have I ever seen CTRL+ALT+Del in Linux
For years I have been using Ctrl-Alt-Del to exit KDE. I also for many years have been using Ctrl-Alt-Del at the console to reboot.
Lots of people disable the latter for true multi-user systems.
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control
center module.
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
Under the Appearance tab, last item on the bottom. If you don't have that option was your package built with SAK support?
Darrell
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:09:10 pm Darrell Anderson wrote:
It is normally used for both unlock and login.
It is a generic
implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK),
without which Linux is
actually less secure than Windows.
Never heard of it, nor have I ever seen CTRL+ALT+Del in Linux
For years I have been using Ctrl-Alt-Del to exit KDE. I also for many years have been using Ctrl-Alt-Del at the console to reboot.
Lots of people disable the latter for true multi-user systems.
Meant to say that I never saw it in KDE/TDE.
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control
center module.
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
Under the Appearance tab, last item on the bottom. If you don't have that option was your package built with SAK support?
Depends on whether the package maintainer built it with SAK support.
Appearance tab where?
Under the Appearance tab, last item on the bottom. If
you don't have that option was your package built with SAK support?
Depends on whether the package maintainer built it with SAK support.
Appearance tab where?
KControl, System Administration, Login Manager, Appearane tab. Underneath the Locale option: Secure Attention Key.
Darrell
On Wednesday 23 November 2011 12:55:36 am Darrell Anderson wrote:
Under the Appearance tab, last item on the bottom. If
you don't have that option was your package built with SAK support?
Depends on whether the package maintainer built it with SAK support.
Appearance tab where?
KControl, System Administration, Login Manager, Appearane tab. Underneath the Locale option: Secure Attention Key.
Darrell
I don't think we're using the same kcontrol. I get as far as kcontrol -> System Administration -> Login Manager, but there's no Appearance tab. http://linuxjutsu.com/~kris/Pictures/loginmanager.png
I don't think we're using the same kcontrol. I get as far as kcontrol -> System Administration -> Login Manager, but there's no Appearance tab. http://linuxjutsu.com/~kris/Pictures/loginmanager.png
Maybe we're using the same words but seeing different things. When you select Login Manager, the screen that first shows IS the Appearance tab. Look at the top where the tabs are located (Appearance, Font, Background, Shutdown, Users, Convenience). :)
Looking at your picture, SAK is enabled. Last option in the screen you saved. The option is ghosted. You'll need admin permissions to modify that in KControl or in kdmrc.
Darrell
On Wednesday 23 November 2011 01:39:12 am Darrell Anderson wrote:
I don't think we're using the same kcontrol. I get as far as kcontrol -> System Administration -> Login Manager, but there's no Appearance tab. http://linuxjutsu.com/~kris/Pictures/loginmanager.png
Maybe we're using the same words but seeing different things. When you select Login Manager, the screen that first shows IS the Appearance tab. Look at the top where the tabs are located (Appearance, Font, Background, Shutdown, Users, Convenience). :)
Looking at your picture, SAK is enabled. Last option in the screen you saved. The option is ghosted. You'll need admin permissions to modify that in KControl or in kdmrc.
Looks like there's a 20 minute lag in your email client:
On Wednesday 23 November 2011 01:17:31 am you wrote:
On Wednesday 23 November 2011 12:55:36 am Darrell Anderson wrote:
Under the Appearance tab, last item on the bottom. If
you don't have that option was your package built with SAK support?
Depends on whether the package maintainer built it with SAK
support.
Appearance tab where?
KControl, System Administration, Login Manager, Appearane tab. Underneath the Locale option: Secure Attention Key.
Darrell
I don't think we're using the same kcontrol. I get as far as kcontrol -> System Administration -> Login Manager, but there's no Appearance tab. http://linuxjutsu.com/~kris/Pictures/loginmanager.png
Or perhaps it is. It's the one selected by default. *gives embarrassed look*
I sent that just a minute after sending the previous message. I wasn't looking at the label for the tab selected by default because I didn't remember seeing any SAKS stuff there. It wasn't until I went to test my screenshot link that I realized I was already on the correct tab.
Or perhaps it is. It's the one selected by default.
*gives embarrassed look*
I sent that just a minute after sending the previous message. I wasn't looking at the label for the tab selected by default because I didn't remember seeing any SAKS stuff there. It wasn't until I went to test my screenshot link that I realized I was already on the correct tab.
Last night I was up tinkering way past my bedtime too. :)
Darrell
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 10:47:12 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Whenever my screen locks (e.g. from my screen saver or from manually locking) and I go to unlock, I'm told to press CTRL+ALT+Del, and it
says
it's displaying that so the login screen doesn't get spoofed.
When logging out, I get a window saying it's saving my settings.
Both of these remind me of WinXP. The CTRL+ALT+Del thing is of WinNT
(XP
is based on NT).
Is there a way to turn this off?
Also, if the CTRL+ALT+Del thing is used for unlocking, why not too for logging in?
It is normally used for both unlock and login. It is a generic implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK), without which Linux is actually less secure than Windows.
Never heard of it, nor have I ever seen CTRL+ALT+Del in Linux
The problem boils down to the fact that I can make a perfect copy of the login (or lock) screen, leave it running as a non-priviledged user (e.g. on a public computer), and grab your password. There is no way for you to know the real login screen from a good fake. The SAK allows the operating system to reserve a secure keypress (in this case Ctrl+Alt+Del) that no userspace application will ever be able to see, therefore preventing emulation of the logon sequence before any passwords are typed.
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control center module.
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
Look for Login Manager in kcontrol.
Also, if you really don't like the startup/shudown splash screens simply select a splash screen other than "Unified". Many users here like to have feedback that their computer is actually doing something once logout has been pressed, but to each their own. ;-)
Tim
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:09:58 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 10:47:12 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Whenever my screen locks (e.g. from my screen saver or from manually locking) and I go to unlock, I'm told to press CTRL+ALT+Del, and it
says
it's displaying that so the login screen doesn't get spoofed.
When logging out, I get a window saying it's saving my settings.
Both of these remind me of WinXP. The CTRL+ALT+Del thing is of WinNT
(XP
is based on NT).
Is there a way to turn this off?
Also, if the CTRL+ALT+Del thing is used for unlocking, why not too for logging in?
It is normally used for both unlock and login. It is a generic implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK), without which Linux is actually less secure than Windows.
Never heard of it, nor have I ever seen CTRL+ALT+Del in Linux
The problem boils down to the fact that I can make a perfect copy of the login (or lock) screen, leave it running as a non-priviledged user (e.g. on a public computer), and grab your password. There is no way for you to know the real login screen from a good fake. The SAK allows the operating system to reserve a secure keypress (in this case Ctrl+Alt+Del) that no userspace application will ever be able to see, therefore preventing emulation of the logon sequence before any passwords are typed.
A good iptables setup (block all except what's absolutely needed), an encrypted hard disk, and not allowing physical access to my laptop whilst it is on make me confident that won't happen :-)
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control center module.
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
Look for Login Manager in kcontrol.
Also, if you really don't like the startup/shudown splash screens simply select a splash screen other than "Unified". Many users here like to have feedback that their computer is actually doing something once logout has been pressed, but to each their own. ;-)
To quote my previous message:
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
Unified wasn't selected when I installed TDE. It was default to one of the moreblue splash screens. I've already changed it, but it only affected the login splash. The logout splash is still a window telling me it's saving me my settings.
Hey sort of on/off topic..
Today I was discussing the trinity project with some fellows who share a lab at Drexel.
One thing two of them mentioned about KDE3.5 that while you can configure everything, it often is hard to find where the setting is.
They said they liked kde4 not for the widgets, just because it was easy to customize.
Just a thought
Calvin
On 22/11/2011, Kristopher John Gamrat chaotickjg@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:09:58 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 10:47:12 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Whenever my screen locks (e.g. from my screen saver or from manually locking) and I go to unlock, I'm told to press CTRL+ALT+Del, and it
says
it's displaying that so the login screen doesn't get spoofed.
When logging out, I get a window saying it's saving my settings.
Both of these remind me of WinXP. The CTRL+ALT+Del thing is of WinNT
(XP
is based on NT).
Is there a way to turn this off?
Also, if the CTRL+ALT+Del thing is used for unlocking, why not too for logging in?
It is normally used for both unlock and login. It is a generic implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK), without which Linux is actually less secure than Windows.
Never heard of it, nor have I ever seen CTRL+ALT+Del in Linux
The problem boils down to the fact that I can make a perfect copy of the login (or lock) screen, leave it running as a non-priviledged user (e.g. on a public computer), and grab your password. There is no way for you to know the real login screen from a good fake. The SAK allows the operating system to reserve a secure keypress (in this case Ctrl+Alt+Del) that no userspace application will ever be able to see, therefore preventing emulation of the logon sequence before any passwords are typed.
A good iptables setup (block all except what's absolutely needed), an encrypted hard disk, and not allowing physical access to my laptop whilst it is on make me confident that won't happen :-)
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control center module.
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
Look for Login Manager in kcontrol.
Also, if you really don't like the startup/shudown splash screens simply select a splash screen other than "Unified". Many users here like to have feedback that their computer is actually doing something once logout has been pressed, but to each their own. ;-)
To quote my previous message:
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager. These are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search box for kcontrol.
Unified wasn't selected when I installed TDE. It was default to one of the moreblue splash screens. I've already changed it, but it only affected the login splash. The logout splash is still a window telling me it's saving me my settings.
-- Kristopher Gamrat Ark Linux webmaster http://www.arklinux.org/
Hey sort of on/off topic..
Today I was discussing the trinity project with some fellows who share a lab at Drexel.
One thing two of them mentioned about KDE3.5 that while you can configure everything, it often is hard to find where the setting is.
They said they liked kde4 not for the widgets, just because it was easy to customize.
Just a thought
Calvin
I had the exact opposite reaction--I found KDE4 extremely difficult to customize, unless they were just referring to adding plasoids and changing the wallpaper. ;-)
Tim
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:36:50 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Hey sort of on/off topic..
Today I was discussing the trinity project with some fellows who share a lab at Drexel.
One thing two of them mentioned about KDE3.5 that while you can configure everything, it often is hard to find where the setting is.
They said they liked kde4 not for the widgets, just because it was easy to customize.
Just a thought
Calvin
I had the exact opposite reaction--I found KDE4 extremely difficult to customize, unless they were just referring to adding plasoids and changing the wallpaper. ;-)
I could never figure out the whole plasmoid thing. The whole description of plasmoid and the difference between widgets and actual desktop elements got me all confused ;-)
On 22/11/2011, Kristopher John Gamrat chaotickjg@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:36:50 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Hey sort of on/off topic..
Today I was discussing the trinity project with some fellows who share a lab at Drexel.
One thing two of them mentioned about KDE3.5 that while you can configure everything, it often is hard to find where the setting is.
They said they liked kde4 not for the widgets, just because it was easy to customize.
Just a thought
Calvin
I had the exact opposite reaction--I found KDE4 extremely difficult to customize, unless they were just referring to adding plasoids and changing the wallpaper. ;-)
I could never figure out the whole plasmoid thing. The whole description of plasmoid and the difference between widgets and actual desktop elements got me all confused ;-)
I was just presenting that fact. They are users, and so we need to listen to them. They are not biased either way and are interested in trinity, but that was an interesting point I thought they made.
I think that maybe we need to review our kcontrol mechanism and make sure all configuration settings are in appropriate spots.
Eg, should keyboard shortcuts be under Regional & Accessibility Eg. should our compositor have it's own module? it's quite hard to find under "Window Behavior"
I think we can at least make some things more intuitive.
Calvin Morrison
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:50:14 pm Calvin Morrison wrote:
On 22/11/2011, Kristopher John Gamrat chaotickjg@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:36:50 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Hey sort of on/off topic..
Today I was discussing the trinity project with some fellows who share a lab at Drexel.
One thing two of them mentioned about KDE3.5 that while you can configure everything, it often is hard to find where the setting is.
They said they liked kde4 not for the widgets, just because it was easy to customize.
Just a thought
Calvin
I had the exact opposite reaction--I found KDE4 extremely difficult to customize, unless they were just referring to adding plasoids and changing the wallpaper. ;-)
I could never figure out the whole plasmoid thing. The whole description of plasmoid and the difference between widgets and actual desktop elements got me all confused ;-)
I was just presenting that fact. They are users, and so we need to listen to them. They are not biased either way and are interested in trinity, but that was an interesting point I thought they made.
I think that maybe we need to review our kcontrol mechanism and make sure all configuration settings are in appropriate spots.
Eg, should keyboard shortcuts be under Regional & Accessibility Eg. should our compositor have it's own module? it's quite hard to find under "Window Behavior"
I think we can at least make some things more intuitive.
Calvin Morrison
I just thought I'd move this to it's own thread. I think it's good to think about for R14, and more obvious when not used to hijack another thread ;-)
I was just presenting that fact. They are users, and so we need to listen to them. They are not biased either way and are interested in trinity, but that was an interesting point I thought they made.
I think that maybe we need to review our kcontrol mechanism and make sure all configuration settings are in appropriate spots.
Eg, should keyboard shortcuts be under Regional & Accessibility Eg. should our compositor have it's own module? it's quite hard to find under "Window Behavior"
I think we can at least make some things more intuitive.
+1. The other day I submitted a bug report enhancement request (642) to move the focus steal prevention level option to the Focus tab. I think little things like this would help much. We probably all could search the web for complaints about Control Center and find a few ideas. Does the old KDE3 bugzilla still exist?
Overall I find KDE4's Control Center (System Settings) more confusing that KDE3/TDE, but that does not mean they haven't moved a few things to a more appropriate location. We should study the new layout and borrow some adjustments.
Darrell
On Wednesday 23 November 2011 12:39:39 am Darrell Anderson wrote:
I was just presenting that fact. They are users, and so we need to listen to them. They are not biased either way and are interested in trinity, but that was an interesting point I thought they made.
I think that maybe we need to review our kcontrol mechanism and make sure all configuration settings are in appropriate spots.
Eg, should keyboard shortcuts be under Regional & Accessibility Eg. should our compositor have it's own module? it's quite hard to find under "Window Behavior"
I think we can at least make some things more intuitive.
+1. The other day I submitted a bug report enhancement request (642) to move the focus steal prevention level option to the Focus tab. I think little things like this would help much. We probably all could search the web for complaints about Control Center and find a few ideas. Does the old KDE3 bugzilla still exist?
Overall I find KDE4's Control Center (System Settings) more confusing that KDE3/TDE, but that does not mean they haven't moved a few things to a more appropriate location. We should study the new layout and borrow some adjustments.
Darrell
/me feels ignored
Couldn't resist ^.^
Though I did post this to a new thread.
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:30:51 pm Calvin Morrison wrote:
Hey sort of on/off topic..
Today I was discussing the trinity project with some fellows who share a lab at Drexel.
One thing two of them mentioned about KDE3.5 that while you can configure everything, it often is hard to find where the setting is.
They said they liked kde4 not for the widgets, just because it was easy to customize.
This is the only setting I've not been able to easily find. I actually have a harder time in KDE4 with their kcontrol replacement. I did notice that same replacement among the TDE packages in Debian. If they prefer that over kcontrol, try letting them try it in TDE.
This is the only setting I've not been able to easily find. I actually have a harder time in KDE4 with their kcontrol replacement. I did notice that same replacement among the TDE packages in Debian. If they prefer that over kcontrol, try letting them try it in TDE.
Please, please, please, nobody change the layout of KControl. I love the tree view. If anybody changes the view layout to that of KDE4's System Settings then make the tree view the default. Please, please, please...
Darrell
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 11:09:58 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011 10:47:12 pm Timothy Pearson wrote:
Whenever my screen locks (e.g. from my screen saver or from
manually
locking) and I go to unlock, I'm told to press CTRL+ALT+Del, and it
says
it's displaying that so the login screen doesn't get spoofed.
When logging out, I get a window saying it's saving my settings.
Both of these remind me of WinXP. The CTRL+ALT+Del thing is of
WinNT
(XP
is based on NT).
Is there a way to turn this off?
Also, if the CTRL+ALT+Del thing is used for unlocking, why not too
for
logging in?
It is normally used for both unlock and login. It is a generic implementation of a Secure Attention Key (SAK), without which Linux
is
actually less secure than Windows.
Never heard of it, nor have I ever seen CTRL+ALT+Del in Linux
The problem boils down to the fact that I can make a perfect copy of the login (or lock) screen, leave it running as a non-priviledged user (e.g. on a public computer), and grab your password. There is no way for you to know the real login screen from a good fake. The SAK allows the operating system to reserve a secure keypress (in this case Ctrl+Alt+Del) that no userspace application will ever be able to see, therefore preventing emulation of the logon sequence before any passwords are typed.
A good iptables setup (block all except what's absolutely needed), an encrypted hard disk, and not allowing physical access to my laptop whilst it is on make me confident that won't happen :-)
The SAK support can be turned off in the KDM control center module.
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager.
These
are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search
box
for kcontrol.
Look for Login Manager in kcontrol.
Also, if you really don't like the startup/shudown splash screens simply select a splash screen other than "Unified". Many users here like to have feedback that their computer is actually doing something once logout has been pressed, but to each their own. ;-)
To quote my previous message:
I don't see it anywhere under Login Manager or KDM Theme Manager.
These
are the only two modules that show up when I type kdm into the search
box
for kcontrol.
Unified wasn't selected when I installed TDE. It was default to one of the moreblue splash screens. I've already changed it, but it only affected the login splash. The logout splash is still a window telling me it's saving me my settings.
Sorry, it's been a long day and I guess I missed that part in your message.
The saving settings dialog has a configuration file setting but no GUI configuration checkbox IIRC. Definitely something that should be looked at for R14.0--a bug report would help.
Tim
Sorry, it's been a long day and I guess I missed that part in your message.
The saving settings dialog has a configuration file setting but no GUI configuration checkbox IIRC. Definitely something that should be looked at for R14.0--a bug report would help.
Bug 681 submitted. :)
Do you remember which config file? I'll test manually changing...
Darrell
-
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
Kristopher John Gamrat -
Timothy Pearson