http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-better-1...
I always read Bruce's writings with a proverbial grain of salt. He tends toward sensationalism and likes to play a game of creating rifts like he did in this article. His journalism tends toward what used to be called muckraking. When he writes in that mode I remind myself that everything is his opinion only and subjective. Everybody has an opinion and a poop chute. Both often stink. :)
Nothing he wrote requires or demands a public response. He has his opinion and we should let that be.
So much for that.
I am concerned about his reports of instability. We should receive such comments seriously. I hope he filed bug reports or contacted somebody on the development team. Even if he didn't this kind of publicity dictates that quality assurance must be a priority over release schedules. That means a lot of usability testing and not just pumping out code and packages.
I hope everybody here receives his article in a constructive manner. :)
Darrell
http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-better-1...
I always read Bruce's writings with a proverbial grain of salt. He tends toward sensationalism and likes to play a game of creating rifts like he did in this article. His journalism tends toward what used to be called muckraking. When he writes in that mode I remind myself that everything is his opinion only and subjective. Everybody has an opinion and a poop chute. Both often stink. :)
Nothing he wrote requires or demands a public response. He has his opinion and we should let that be.
So much for that.
I am concerned about his reports of instability. We should receive such comments seriously. I hope he filed bug reports or contacted somebody on the development team. Even if he didn't this kind of publicity dictates that quality assurance must be a priority over release schedules. That means a lot of usability testing and not just pumping out code and packages.
I hope everybody here receives his article in a constructive manner. :)
Darrell
Ouch. Sounds like we need a nice, long QA period for R14.0.
And I do take issue with some things he says, primarily on the usability end. He admits himself (at the end) that he found the KDE 3 GUI somewhat hard to use, so I wouldn't worry too much about the KDE4/TDE comparisons he makes regarding the interface. I have always suspected that KDE4 is geared towards salespersons, journalists, and people in non-technical professions, and the article would seem to confirm this. That's not a bad thing, just more proof of the difference in type of user base between the two desktops. :-)
Tim
On 15 November 2011 20:18, Timothy Pearson kb9vqf@pearsoncomputing.netwrote:
http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-better-1...
I always read Bruce's writings with a proverbial grain of salt. He tends toward sensationalism and likes to play a game of creating rifts like he did in this article. His journalism tends toward what used to be called muckraking. When he writes in that mode I remind myself that everything
is
his opinion only and subjective. Everybody has an opinion and a poop chute. Both often stink. :)
Nothing he wrote requires or demands a public response. He has his
opinion
and we should let that be.
So much for that.
I am concerned about his reports of instability. We should receive such comments seriously. I hope he filed bug reports or contacted somebody on the development team. Even if he didn't this kind of publicity dictates that quality assurance must be a priority over release schedules. That means a lot of usability testing and not just pumping out code and packages.
I hope everybody here receives his article in a constructive manner. :)
Darrell
Ouch. Sounds like we need a nice, long QA period for R14.0.
And I do take issue with some things he says, primarily on the usability end. He admits himself (at the end) that he found the KDE 3 GUI somewhat hard to use, so I wouldn't worry too much about the KDE4/TDE comparisons he makes regarding the interface. I have always suspected that KDE4 is geared towards salespersons, journalists, and people in non-technical professions, and the article would seem to confirm this. That's not a bad thing, just more proof of the difference in type of user base between the two desktops. :-)
Tim
Fixing Kickoff and stabilizing Display and Monitor settings seem to be a good priority as well.
Even if we don't like kickoff, we cant have it crashing.
Fixing Kickoff and stabilizing Display and Monitor settings seem to be a good priority as well.
Even if we don't like kickoff, we cant have it crashing.
Agreed. Perhaps one of the developers can email Bruce? Ask him to better describe the events and if repeatable copy those statements into a bug report?
Darrell
On 15 November 2011 20:40, Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com wrote:
Fixing Kickoff and stabilizing Display and Monitor settings seem to be a good priority as well.
Even if we don't like kickoff, we cant have it crashing.
Agreed. Perhaps one of the developers can email Bruce? Ask him to better describe the events and if repeatable copy those statements into a bug report?
Darrell
I am already thoroughly dealing with kicker. The problem he mention occurs 100% of the time. There is already a patch in the bug.
I am also reworking the button structure of Kickoff so that it will use the default button. better faster more stable.
Calvin
I am already thoroughly dealing with kicker. The problem he mention occurs 100% of the time. There is already a patch in the bug.
I am also reworking the button structure of Kickoff so that it will use the default button. better faster more stable.
You da man! :)
Darrell
It wasn't all that negative of a review. It didn't do us any good though.
But...
I think Trinity's emphasis on speed is the wrong method to promote it to the public. Every geek, journalist and muckraker out there when they hear "it's faster" will immediately get out a program speedometer and stage a race between the program execution and file opening speed of Trinity and whatever they are comparing it to.
Yeah big programs are slower to start and to do some things from a loading point of view--but its not that big a deal to a human using one of the the newer computers. The only people into that kind of speed are the overclockers, marketers, and reviewers.
What I--and what I think most people involved with Trinity--object to in the "New & Improved" KDE4 and Gnome is what they did to the work-flow. They added steps, moved things around, and made you throw away years of training and experience just because they wanted a "cuter" OS with lots of glitter.
I think the push to market Trinity should be about that--not revolve around the word "speed"--which everyone relates to differently and values differently.
Sell concepts like this:
You get work done faster and easier. The work-flow is what you are used to and have used for years. The work-flow is easier and it takes fewer movements to access what you need. What you learned previously still applies and you don't have to unlearn anything. You don't have to waste time learning how to do something you already understand in KDE3. etc, etc...
I think most people resist having to learn new things but they absolutely HATE having to learn to NOT do something that they have done continuously for years. If you play on that you can get people's attention.
Keith
Sell concepts like this:
You get work done faster and easier. The work-flow is what you are used to and have used for years. The work-flow is easier and it takes fewer movements to access what you need. What you learned previously still applies and you don't have to unlearn anything. You don't have to waste time learning how to do something you already understand in KDE3. etc, etc...
I think we identify those points in our proposed draft About/FAQ page in etherpad. Please review the page and feel welcomed to help.
I think most people resist having to learn new things but they absolutely HATE having to learn to NOT do something that they have done continuously for years. If you play on that you can get people's attention.
I don't think people resist change as popular as that adage might be. :) I think people resist change they did not ask for or resist when timetables for the changes are unrealistic. People want to move forward incrementally, comfortably. Changes like those in KDE and GNOME are unwelcome by many because most users did not have a meaningful vote and the changes are too dramatic without providing fallbacks to familiar territory. Same thing is happening in the Windows market, by the way. Some people love the new interfaces and work flows and that is expected. Many others could adapt if they had been treated with respect and compassion rather than as objects.
This is much like the frog in boiling water parable. If features are changed incrementally most users never object. They adapt. Change too many features at once with no forewarning and training and the frog jumps out of the water. :)
Darrell
I don't think people resist change as popular as that adage might be. :) I think people resist change they did not ask for or resist when timetables for the changes are unrealistic. People want to move forward incrementally, comfortably. Changes like those in KDE and GNOME are unwelcome by many because most users did not have a meaningful vote and the changes are too dramatic without providing fallbacks to familiar territory. Same thing is happening in the Windows market, by the way. Some people love the new interfaces and work flows and that is expected. Many others could adapt if they had been treated with respect and compassion rather than as objects.
This is much like the frog in boiling water parable. If features are changed incrementally most users never object. They adapt. Change too many features at once with no forewarning and training and the frog jumps out of the water. :)
Yes, this is true. However keep in mind what usually happens to the frog--it gets boiled alive. ;-)
What I mean is that change to an inefficient way of doing things, even if done over a long period of time, is still change for the worse. Users may finally get "boiled alive"; i.e. get completely frustrated with their Linux desktop, and move to another platform that promises them the ability to get their tasks done faster.
Tim
hi...
i picked this email to reply to since it was the one i landed on last while reading the thread, but it could have been a reply to any number of emails here.
note that i write this both as the person who wrote the features that gave Trinity it's edge in the one category Byfield felt it was better in (panel configurability), as well as one of the developers working on KDE's new offerings ...
On Tuesday, November 15, 2011 21:01:55 Keith Daniels wrote:
work-flow. They added steps, moved things around, and made you throw away years of training and experience just because they wanted a "cuter" OS with lots of glitter.
just as you would probably appreciate others not misrepresenting Trinity or speaking on your behalf as to what your motivations are, i would graciously request you pay the same respect to others, particularly those in closely related projects (e.g. those working on Plasma Desktop and other 4.x software).
in this case, you are absolutely incorrect in your assesment, and it is disconcerting that we face the specter of dealing with FUD from within the borders of the broader KDE / Trinity community.
i'd rather see us support each other than get annoyed at each other.
of COURSE people are going to write comparisons of Trinity and KDE's 4.x software: they want to figure out which to use. and of COURSE people are going to write them with some level of struggle between the two because the people who are using 3.5 / Trinity have made it a *highly contentious* issue where the quoted bit above is the norm rather than the exception. so, in part, you brought this on us all. but also in part, expect comparisons. that's fine. it isn't a threat. focus on what you can improve, enjoy the accolades given and avoid the temptation to fall into attacking others.
then maybe Trinity's community will be able to shake the "den of hate" reputation that it has earned, properly or not, in significant parts of the KDE community.
now, just so it's very clear: it pains me to see the stability of the 3.5 series diminish. every release made after our last official release (3.5.9 iirc was the last i was involved in...) has seen, imho, questionable choices in patch inclusion. but i understood, or at least have tried to, the motivation: to keep the code moving forward and keep it fresh and usable on new Linux OSes. so, as someone not directly involved in that code base anymore and as someone who has no desire to see people fail with KDE's code and efforts, i really haven't made a big deal of that point in public. even as i have had to deal with the claims of KDE 3.5's continued, obvious and unnassailable superiority to everything before or since.
i hope that can be appreciated and perhaps mirrored in the Trinity community.
I think most people resist having to learn new things but they absolutely HATE having to learn to NOT do something that they have done continuously for years. If you play on that you can get people's attention.
please consider that if the intention is to put forth a marketing effort that paints Plasma or other KDE software in a bad light, that this will effectively and quickly put an end to any cooperative spirit we may have been able to build.
the moment you get into "comparison shopping" marketing is the moment you start creating rivalry and that often leads to bare-knuckle competition. you would, for instance, find that the last dot.kde.org article (which i went to the wall for so it would be published, btw) likely to be Trinity's last.
this is how one builds a situation where people end up ripping each other down so that everyone's progress is impaired. look up "crabs in a bucket" if you aren't familiar with that phrase.
i would suggest that instead of focussing on what you are not and playing on what you believe to be people's negative feelings about other products, focus on Trinity's positives and what Trinity is. yes, the topic may end up being the same ("traditional desktop values", "performance on older hardware", etc) but it goes from being a message based on the negatives of others to one that is about the positives of Trinity.
I think aseigo make a very important point. we need to be very careful not to break off our already weak ties with KDE.
We should honestly focus on us instead of worrying about KDE Development. It makes me feel ashamed to be grouped with apple fanboys, but that is what it feels like when we all get up in arms and bash Gnome or KDE.
Lets stay focused and productive,
Calvin Morrison
I think aseigo make a very important point. we need to be very careful not to break off our already weak ties with KDE. We should honestly focus on us instead of worrying about KDE Development. It makes me feel ashamed to be grouped with apple fanboys, but that is what it feels like when we all get up in arms and bash Gnome or KDE.
Lets stay focused and productive,
Let's. We are moving in that direction. Our reorganized web site and new About/FAQ page will help much too.
Darrell
On Wednesday 16 November 2011, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I think aseigo make a very important point. we need to be very careful not to break off our already weak ties with KDE.
We should honestly focus on us instead of worrying about KDE Development. It makes me feel ashamed to be grouped with apple fanboys, but that is what it feels like when we all get up in arms and bash Gnome or KDE.
Lets stay focused and productive,
Calvin Morrison
I agree with this. Honestly I'm down hearted by all the bashing (no pun intended) and politics stuff. Genetic diversity is needed in nature, even among the same species. Its clear we need it here as well. To each their own. I prefer kde3/tde and e17, I don't like kde4, but I'll never tell someone they can't use it. Its not my right. So I don't get all the nonesense, honestly, its confusing.
Kate
On Wednesday 16 November 2011, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I think aseigo make a very important point. we need to be very careful not to break off our already weak ties with KDE.
We should honestly focus on us instead of worrying about KDE Development. It makes me feel ashamed to be grouped with apple fanboys, but that is what it feels like when we all get up in arms and bash Gnome or KDE.
Lets stay focused and productive,
Calvin Morrison
I agree with this. Honestly I'm down hearted by all the bashing (no pun intended) and politics stuff. Genetic diversity is needed in nature, even among the same species. Its clear we need it here as well. To each their own. I prefer kde3/tde and e17, I don't like kde4, but I'll never tell someone they can't use it. Its not my right. So I don't get all the nonesense, honestly, its confusing.
Kate
+1 from me! Remember that different, especially in FOSS projects, is NOT bad...
Tim
On Wednesday 16 November 2011 02:49:54 pm Kate Draven wrote:
On Wednesday 16 November 2011, Calvin Morrison wrote:
I think aseigo make a very important point. we need to be very careful not to break off our already weak ties with KDE.
We should honestly focus on us instead of worrying about KDE Development. It makes me feel ashamed to be grouped with apple fanboys, but that is what it feels like when we all get up in arms and bash Gnome or KDE.
Lets stay focused and productive,
Calvin Morrison
I agree with this. Honestly I'm down hearted by all the bashing (no pun intended) and politics stuff. Genetic diversity is needed in nature, even among the same species. Its clear we need it here as well. To each their own. I prefer kde3/tde and e17, I don't like kde4, but I'll never tell someone they can't use it. Its not my right. So I don't get all the nonesense, honestly, its confusing.
It's part of being human that we don't make sense -- just because we are capable of intelligence and sense, and leaving well enough alone, doesn't mean we will.
Like I said, we should put in plain site on the web site that we are willing to help resolve issues, along with IRC and mailing list logs and link to the bug tracker. That way, people who don't put forth the time and effort to work with us to resolve their issues will look like the idiots, and anybody with even a small amount of sense will see that and realize that the people who are bashing us don't know what they're talking about.
Aaron, thanks for writing. I speak for myself and do not necessarily represent anybody else or their opinion.
Regarding the instability issues, we started a conversation about that topic last night. We are aware of the claims. Much more attention will be provided toward quality assurance with the next release.
I don't believe we who are involved directly in the Trinity project have earned any den of hate reputation. Most everybody here just minds the shop. The den of hate of which you speak is maintained by reviewers and forum zealots. Why they insist on almost always comparing Trinity to KDE4 is for them to answer. We don't write those reviews. :)
If you are following this list then you know many of us are working together to keep us all focused on Trinity and not get involved in spitting contests. We had a chat session yesterday and discussed that very topic. We are reorganizing our web site, which will include a new About page with an FAQ. In our FAQ (the draft is in our etherpad) we address the issue of Trinity and KDE4 because we too are weary of the comparisons. We present facts and a statement that both desktops are beneficial to various people with different wants and needs.
With that said, there are always new people joining the list. Some people join because they are dissatisfied with what they perceive is the general direction of recent releases of desktop environments. When they join they share their opinions. This is human nature. People are social creatures and they want to belong. People tend to share opinions that help them feel they belong.
Part of that belonging process is comparing "us" vs. "them." This is a human conditioning problem that permeates deep into our social fabric all around the world in every facet of life. Much conflict in our world is caused by this process of social conditioning to compare "us" vs. "them." As a species we do not teach each other to view ourselves as a single species struggling to survive in a hostile universe. Instead we all have been conditioned to think narrowly about "us" vs. "them." That conditioning continues at this very moment. Read the headlines and watch the spin doctors on TV to see this process in action. Who knows how long we need to change that aspect of our species.
I long have seen in free/libre software the potential to break some of that social conditioning. That does not mean those attitudes evaporate through wishful thinking. They don't. :( Yet we can continue educating one another that this struggle called life is not about "us" vs. "them" but about humans surviving together. Despite the puny size of our planet in a incomprehensibly large universe, there is nonetheless plenty of room here for numerous opinions about how we go about making our world a better place.
The KDE4 people have their opinion how to do that, the Trinity people have theirs, the GNOME people theirs, the Unity people theirs, and on and on. That several hundred distros exist is an example of how this process succeeds.
Most of us here want to live in harmony with others in the free/libre software world. Yet Trinity exists because we want to maintain the older KDE3 desktop style. We want to promote healthy exchanges among everybody in all camps of free/libre software, but by golly we like Trinity and that opinion will surface in this list. :) As will similar opinions in any KDE4 discussion list. :)
The trick for all of us to learn is to express those opinions and enthusiasm without harassing people in the other groups. :) Every day every one of us has to look into the mirror, literally and figuratively. Every day we have to think about who we are. We change in increments but we change. This is a process. One day we all will get there. :)
Darrell
As far as I'm concerned, anybody is entitled to their opinions. I could say, for instance, that I don't care for KDE4. That statement is true for me personally and is independent of anybody else, I form my opinions myself and I don't let anybody else dictate those opinions. Even though I try to provide feedback to the TDE developers whenever possible, my opinions aren't theirs and their opinions aren't mine. I'm always prepared to defend my views with facts rather than sensless attacks; I do admit to seeing some good things in KDE4, and I don't intend to attack the KDE developers, just to let them know why I don't like KDE4 in hopes that they will try to improve.
Most people don't do that. They make attacks that have little or no patience in facts. I have no patience for that. Best to avoid that and put on the site in plain site something like, "If you have a problem with TDE, please file a bug report or contact our developers via IRC or mailing list to see if it can be resolved before you do your review." We can then link to our mailing lists and IRC logs. That way, the people who attack us without asking for help or without putting any REAL effort into fixing the issue look like total idiots. After all, didn't we offer to help them out, and put effort into helping them?
Most people don't do that. They make attacks that have little or no patience in facts. I have no patience for that. Best to avoid that and put on the site in plain site something like, "If you have a problem with TDE, please file a bug report or contact our developers via IRC or mailing list to see if it can be resolved before you do your review." We can then link to our mailing lists and IRC logs. That way, the people who attack us without asking for help or without putting any REAL effort into fixing the issue look like total idiots. After all, didn't we offer to help them out, and put effort into helping them?
We are in the process of reorganizing our web site. There will be time for peer reviews and commentary. I agree some kind of statement is needed to encourage people to submit bug reports. We need to write such statements in a positive manner.
For example: with a statement and link to the bugzilla: Add a simple statement such as "Thanks for helping!" shows respect for others and hopefully provides encouragement.
Yet many people do not want to join a bugzilla to file the occasional bug report. Basic human nature to complain and take little action for only a bug or two.
Therefore in addition to a link to the bugzilla, I think we should consider a simple form box where users can submit bug reports without joining the bugzilla. The form submission would get forwarded to selected individuals in the group and one of them would post a bug report if the problem can be verified in any way. The form submission should require posters to include an email address so respondents can discuss further information.
Darrell
On Wednesday 16 November 2011 01:06:46 pm Darrell Anderson wrote:
Yet many people do not want to join a bugzilla to file the occasional bug report. Basic human nature to complain and take little action for only a bug or two.
Therefore in addition to a link to the bugzilla, I think we should consider a simple form box where users can submit bug reports without joining the bugzilla. The form submission would get forwarded to selected individuals in the group and one of them would post a bug report if the problem can be verified in any way. The form submission should require posters to include an email address so respondents can discuss further information.
Would it be possible to link the form to bugzilla through some sort of PHP magic? That way, it would already be posted, and whoever discusses the bug with the person filing, they'd just need to add in the additional details they gathered.
Le Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:10:56 -0800 (PST), Darrell Anderson humanreadable@yahoo.com a écrit :
http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-better-1...
He apparently didn't say which distribution he's using, and stability could depend on it. In my personal case I didn't remember of great stability in anything Ubuntu-based, including Kubuntu; but it was mostly issues of dpkg/etc. breaking into a big mess in a much faster and easily-triggered way than Debian stable. I think one day I should do an audit of Trinity 3.5.13 vs. KDE 3.5.10 and revert some Ubuntu patches… (I already have in mind the broken kdesu issue you previously reported)
I always read Bruce's writings with a proverbial grain of salt. He tends toward sensationalism and likes to play a game of creating rifts like he did in this article. His journalism tends toward what used to be called muckraking. When he writes in that mode I remind myself that everything is his opinion only and subjective. Everybody has an opinion and a poop chute. Both often stink. :)
Nothing he wrote requires or demands a public response. He has his opinion and we should let that be.
So much for that.
I am concerned about his reports of instability. We should receive such comments seriously. I hope he filed bug reports or contacted somebody on the development team. Even if he didn't this kind of publicity dictates that quality assurance must be a priority over release schedules. That means a lot of usability testing and not just pumping out code and packages.
I hope everybody here receives his article in a constructive manner. :)
Darrell
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
I think one day I should do an audit of Trinity 3.5.13 vs. KDE 3.5.10 and revert some Ubuntu patches… (I already have in mind the broken kdesu issue you previously reported)
Bug reports 388 and 393. :) I'll be happy to test!
Darrell
I've read this guy's stuff before and find it questionable. He never mentioned how badly kde4 crashed and how often it crashes now. Just sitting there, the latest kde4 crash on two unrelated distros.
I do agree, if there are claims of instability, it would be taken seriously. Let's not repeat kde4's policy to ignore complaints until they pile up.
Kate
http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-better-1...
I've read this guy's stuff before and find it questionable. He never mentioned how badly kde4 crashed and how often it crashes now. Just sitting there, the latest kde4 crash on two unrelated distros.
I do agree, if there are claims of instability, it would be taken seriously. Let's not repeat kde4's policy to ignore complaints until they pile up.
Kate
+1
Tim
Le Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:59:53 -0500, Katheryne Draven borgqueen4@gmail.com a écrit :
I've read this guy's stuff before and find it questionable. He never mentioned how badly kde4 crashed and how often it crashes now. Just sitting there, the latest kde4 crash on two unrelated distros.
Some people *really* don't experience KDE4 crashes; it really seems to be good or bad luck/drivers. The only crashes I experienced with KDE4 are some Intel driver crashes (for example, with Lucid-era Intel drivers on my hardware, Xv + OpenGL game == Crash at the exit of OpenGL with high probability: I can't blame KDE4 here); I never ever had a KDE4 crash with ATI graphics hardware, let the KDE4 version be 4.2 or 4.4, KWin effects be enabled or not and the propietary or the FOSS driver be used. The best way to avoid crashing KDE4 with bad drivers is just to disable KWin effects. Anyway KWin effects are too slow for the versions of KDE4 I use (<= 4.5.5), and according to what Martin Gräßlin is saying on his blog we'll have to wait KDE 4.8 for good KWin performance.
I do agree, if there are claims of instability, it would be taken seriously. Let's not repeat kde4's policy to ignore complaints until they pile up.
Kate
http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-better-1...
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Hi
I thought of that myself, so I disable all 3d stuff, effect etc to give it the best chance I can. It wasn't a drive issue, or hardware related.
On Tuesday 15 November 2011, /dev/ammo42 wrote:
Le Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:59:53 -0500,
Katheryne Draven borgqueen4@gmail.com a écrit :
I've read this guy's stuff before and find it questionable. He never mentioned how badly kde4 crashed and how often it crashes now. Just sitting there, the latest kde4 crash on two unrelated distros.
Some people *really* don't experience KDE4 crashes; it really seems to be good or bad luck/drivers. The only crashes I experienced with KDE4 are some Intel driver crashes (for example, with Lucid-era Intel drivers on my hardware, Xv + OpenGL game == Crash at the exit of OpenGL with high probability: I can't blame KDE4 here); I never ever had a KDE4 crash with ATI graphics hardware, let the KDE4 version be 4.2 or 4.4, KWin effects be enabled or not and the propietary or the FOSS driver be used. The best way to avoid crashing KDE4 with bad drivers is just to disable KWin effects. Anyway KWin effects are too slow for the versions of KDE4 I use (<= 4.5.5), and according to what Martin Gräßlin is saying on his blog we'll have to wait KDE 4.8 for good KWin performance.
I do agree, if there are claims of instability, it would be taken seriously. Let's not repeat kde4's policy to ignore complaints until they pile up.
Kate
http://www.datamation.com/open-source/kde-vs.-trinity-is-one-really-bet ter-1.html
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe@lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help@lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messsages on the Web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
-
/dev/ammo42 -
Aaron J. Seigo -
Calvin Morrison -
Darrell Anderson -
Kate Draven -
Katheryne Draven
-
Keith Daniels -
Kristopher John Gamrat -
Timothy Pearson