18 Jun
2011
18 Jun
'11
8:31 p.m.
================================
#trinity-desktop-meeting Meeting
================================
Meeting started by kb9vqf at 19:06:23 UTC. The full logs are available
at
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The mirror syncs every six hours. Try again later if you cannot
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.
Meeting summary
---------------
* this is the June meeting (MutantTurkey, 19:06:38)
* CMake conversion (kb9vqf, 19:06:46)
* LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/9 (MutantTurkey,
19:07:14)
* 3.5.13 will not be a full CMake port, it will be a blend of CMake
for the core modules and Automake for the rest (kb9vqf, 19:08:12)
* ACTION: samelian and MutantTurkey will keep working oni t
(MutantTurkey, 19:08:52)
* TQt for Qt4 (kb9vqf, 19:10:06)
* LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/28 (MutantTurkey,
19:10:32)
* TQt4 port is on schedule (MutantTurkey, 19:13:08)
* Git Migration (kb9vqf, 19:13:45)
* LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/29 (kb9vqf,
19:14:31)
* LINK: http://git.xfce.org/ see how xfce does it (MutantTurkey,
19:16:46)
* research needs to be done, but the move is probably a definite, 3rd
party? (MutantTurkey, 19:26:39)
* ACTION: MutantTurkey and Xu_R will look into the best way to handle
the GIT repo (kb9vqf, 19:26:51)
* CMake conversion (kb9vqf, 19:27:24)
* ACTION: Xu_R needs to update the roadmap (Xu_R|iPodWC, 19:29:40)
* Patchwork (kb9vqf, 19:30:36)
* patchwork can be used to send in patches via ML (MutantTurkey,
19:34:51)
* Earlier outage (kb9vqf, 19:37:11)
* SuSE Support (kb9vqf, 19:40:15)
* ACTION: Pull and commit gcc46.diff patches from opensuse (kb9vqf,
19:42:48)
* invite people to provide binaries (MutantTurkey, 19:50:58)
* ACTION: invite distro binary maintainers and validate from
candidates (kb9vqf, 19:52:02)
* Monthly Bugs (kb9vqf, 19:54:56)
* LINK: http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/25 (kb9vqf,
19:59:14)
* Dependencies (kb9vqf, 20:01:41)
* ACTION: figure out potential libssh breakage (kb9vqf, 20:02:41)
* libssh does not break fish/sftp (kb9vqf, 20:03:06)
* LINK:
http://linuxtesting.org/upstream-tracker/compat_reports/libssh/
(MutantTurkey, 20:03:49)
* ACTION: samelian will try to rewrite fish:// for 3.5.13 (kb9vqf,
20:09:15)
* Trinity Documentation / Dev Info Location (kb9vqf, 20:09:30)
* ACTION: MutantTurkey will handle Wiki/Etherpad integration (kb9vqf,
20:15:26)
* Module Deprecation (kb9vqf, 20:15:49)
* LINK:
http://community.kde.org/Calligra/Meetings/Begin_2011_meeting/Ideas#Going_m…
(MutantTurkey, 20:16:43)
* ACTION: Deprecate koffice (kb9vqf, 20:19:33)
* String freeze (kb9vqf, 20:20:22)
* Future Versions (kb9vqf, 20:26:53)
* ACTION: Xu_R needs to update the Roadmap based on the June meeting
Etherpad (kb9vqf, 20:29:22)
* General Discussion (kb9vqf, 20:30:02)
Meeting ended at 20:42:33 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* samelian and MutantTurkey will keep working oni t
* MutantTurkey and Xu_R will look into the best way to handle the GIT
repo
* Xu_R needs to update the roadmap
* Pull and commit gcc46.diff patches from opensuse
* invite distro binary maintainers and validate from candidates
* figure out potential libssh breakage
* samelian will try to rewrite fish:// for 3.5.13
* MutantTurkey will handle Wiki/Etherpad integration
* Deprecate koffice
* Xu_R needs to update the Roadmap based on the June meeting Etherpad
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* MutantTurkey
* samelian and MutantTurkey will keep working oni t
* MutantTurkey and Xu_R will look into the best way to handle the GIT
repo
* MutantTurkey will handle Wiki/Etherpad integration
* samelian
* samelian and MutantTurkey will keep working oni t
* samelian will try to rewrite fish:// for 3.5.13
* Xu_R
* MutantTurkey and Xu_R will look into the best way to handle the GIT
repo
* Xu_R needs to update the roadmap
* Xu_R needs to update the Roadmap based on the June meeting Etherpad
* **UNASSIGNED**
* Pull and commit gcc46.diff patches from opensuse
* invite distro binary maintainers and validate from candidates
* figure out potential libssh breakage
* Deprecate koffice
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* kb9vqf (293)
* MutantTurkey (131)
* samelian (61)
* Xu_R|iPodWC (32)
* Xu_R (11)
* ammo42 (8)
* [lindaemon] (2)
* msb (2)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
--
later, Robert Xu + rxu AT lincomlinux DOT org
19 Jun
19 Jun
4:41 p.m.
You can track the progress we are making on these meeting minutes through here:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/30
--
later, Robert Xu + rxu AT lincomlinux DOT org
8:20 p.m.
New subject: Deprecate KOffice
You can track the progress we are making on these
meeting minutes through here:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/30
This is a very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a major part of KDE.
8:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
You can track the progress we are making on these
meeting minutes
through here:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/30
This is a very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a major
part of KDE.
9:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 00:28:45 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Basically there is no other office suite that is so closely integrated with KDE/Trinity.
Aside spreadsheet and word processor KOffice includes graphical apps such as Krita,
Kivio etc to which Open Office has no alternatives (or do you suggest using GIMP?).
Removing KOffice is equal to removing a half of KDE apps. Seriously guys I thought you
hold vector on
improvement and expansion (i.e. adding more apps) rather than removing the core KDE
components.
If KOffice is removed then there is no reason why other apps should be added to Trinity.
KDE:KDE3 repository
currently has more than 420 KDE3 packages but adding them to Trinity would have no reason
if KOffice is removed (as KOffice has better quality and better integrated than most of
them).
Even more, if KOfiice is removed then there is no reason why other Trinity components
should
not be removed as well by the same logic (AmaroK, Kaffeine, even Konqueror).
Concerning Open/Libre Office as you know it has only basic KDE3 integration which can
be removed any moment. Libre Office team for example is currently discussing radical
change
of the user interface which may lead to removal of Qt3 styles support.
Also by your logic the Gnome team should kill Gnumeric and Abiword because Open Office is
better?
This is a very
sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a major
part of KDE.
We can reconsider this at the next meeting. Can you please provide a
rationale for keeping koffice, why it is better than LibreOffice with TDE
integration, who still uses it, etc.?
9:13 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 00:28:45 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
Basically there is no other office suite that is so closely integrated
with KDE/Trinity.
Aside spreadsheet and word processor KOffice includes graphical apps such
as Krita,
Kivio etc to which Open Office has no alternatives (or do you suggest
using GIMP?).
OK, this is a valid point. I wish you had made it to our meeting; by
bringing this up you probably would have killed off the deprecation
suggestion very quickly.
This is a
very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a
major
part of KDE.
We can reconsider this at the next meeting. Can you please provide a
rationale for keeping koffice, why it is better than LibreOffice with
TDE
integration, who still uses it, etc.?
Removing KOffice is equal to removing a half of KDE apps. Seriously guys I
thought you hold vector on
improvement and expansion (i.e. adding more apps) rather than removing the
core KDE components.
See above. koffice is not half of all apps though.
If KOffice is removed then there is no reason why other apps should be
added to Trinity. KDE:KDE3 repository
currently has more than 420 KDE3 packages but adding them to Trinity would
have no reason
if KOffice is removed (as KOffice has better quality and better integrated
than most of them).
In certain areas. In others (kword and such) the quality is inferior.
Even more, if KOfiice is removed then there is no reason why other Trinity
components should
not be removed as well by the same logic (AmaroK, Kaffeine, even
Konqueror).
No. Some of the koffice components have direct and better replacements,
such as kword.
Concerning Open/Libre Office as you know it has only basic KDE3
integration which can
be removed any moment. Libre Office team for example is currently
discussing radical change
of the user interface which may lead to removal of Qt3 styles support.
LibreOffice is more than happy to accept TDE integration support.
As of now, consider koffice deprecation cancelled.
Tim
9:36 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:13:49 Timothy Pearson wrote:
I think there is no other general-purpose word processor for KDE3 other than KWord.
It is unique in its class. I have Scribus, Lyx, TexMaker, PDF Editor in KDE:KDE3
but they all implement different functionality and less closely integrated with KDE.
This is completely subjective. One can argue that Amarok 1.4 has
better replacements Amarok 2 and Clementine. It can be argued that
Konqueror can be replaced with Rekonq and Dolphin etc.
It is also quite arguable whether say OOo Calc is better than KSpread: opening
a spreadsheet in Calc can take minutes while in KSpread only one or
two seconds.
Re-implementing Qt3 support after the change may require huge effort while
LibreOffice team is not commited to do it themselves. Do you feel capable to
re-implement interface integration yourselves even if your patches will be
happily accepted?
If KOffice is
removed then there is no reason why other apps should be
added to Trinity. KDE:KDE3 repository
currently has more than 420 KDE3 packages but adding them to Trinity would
have no reason
if KOffice is removed (as KOffice has better quality and better integrated
than most of them).
In certain areas. In others (kword and such) the quality is inferior. Even more, if
KOfiice is removed then there is no reason why other Trinity
components should
not be removed as well by the same logic (AmaroK, Kaffeine, even
Konqueror).
No. Some of the koffice components have direct and better replacements,
such as kword. Concerning
Open/Libre Office as you know it has only basic KDE3
integration which can
be removed any moment. Libre Office team for example is currently
discussing radical change
of the user interface which may lead to removal of Qt3 styles support.
LibreOffice is more than happy to accept TDE integration support.
9:38 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:13:49 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
I think there is no other general-purpose word processor for KDE3 other
than KWord.
It is unique in its class. I have Scribus, Lyx, TexMaker, PDF Editor in
KDE:KDE3
but they all implement different functionality and less closely integrated
with KDE.
This is completely subjective. I would argue that OpenOffice.org is
unmatched for the way it blends in to TDE and reads/writes all the major
document formats nearly flawlessly.
If
KOffice is removed then there is no reason why other apps should be
added to Trinity. KDE:KDE3 repository
currently has more than 420 KDE3 packages but adding them to Trinity
would
have no reason
if KOffice is removed (as KOffice has better quality and better
integrated
than most of them).
In certain areas. In others (kword and such) the quality is inferior. Even
more, if KOfiice is removed then there is no reason why other
Trinity
components should
not be removed as well by the same logic (AmaroK, Kaffeine, even
Konqueror).
No. Some of the koffice components have direct and better replacements,
such as kword.
It is also quite arguable whether say OOo Calc is better than KSpread:
opening
a spreadsheet in Calc can take minutes while in KSpread only one or
two seconds.
Re-implementing Qt3 support after the change may require huge effort while
LibreOffice team is not commited to do it themselves. Do you feel capable
to
re-implement interface integration yourselves even if your patches will be
happily accepted?
Actually, yes! I have done it before with other apps and to be honest it
is not difficult at all.
Tim
Concerning Open/Libre Office as you know it has only basic KDE3
integration which can
be removed any moment. Libre Office team for example is currently
discussing radical change
of the user interface which may lead to removal of Qt3 styles support.
LibreOffice is more than happy to accept TDE integration support.
9:45 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:38:41 Timothy Pearson wrote:
We were talking about KDE:KDE3 repository. As I said if KOffice removed
there is no reason to include any other KDE3 word processor in Trinity because all
of those apps are inferior.
This is completely subjective. One can argue that Amarok 1.4 has
better replacements Amarok 2 and Clementine. It can be argued that
Konqueror can be replaced with Rekonq and Dolphin etc.
No, because in those cases the feature set did not include features that
were present in the original applications.
Clementine is a direct continuation of Amarok. And in any way, as I already said,
it can be similarly argued that OpenOffice does not have all features of KOffice.
About what sort of integration do you speak now?
I think there
is no other general-purpose word processor for KDE3 other
than KWord.
It is unique in its class. I have Scribus, Lyx, TexMaker, PDF Editor in
KDE:KDE3
but they all implement different functionality and less closely integrated
with KDE.
This is completely subjective. I would argue that OpenOffice.org is
unmatched for the way it blends in to TDE and reads/writes all the major
document formats nearly flawlessly. Even more, if
KOfiice is removed then there is no reason why other
Trinity
components should
not be removed as well by the same logic (AmaroK, Kaffeine, even
Konqueror).
No. Some of the koffice components have direct and better replacements,
such as kword. It is also
quite arguable whether say OOo Calc is better than KSpread:
opening
a spreadsheet in Calc can take minutes while in KSpread only one or
two seconds.
Re-implementing Qt3 support after the change may require huge effort while
LibreOffice team is not commited to do it themselves. Do you feel capable
to
re-implement interface integration yourselves even if your patches will be
happily accepted?
Actually, yes! I have done it before with other apps and to be honest it
is not difficult at all.
Concerning Open/Libre Office as you know it has only basic KDE3
integration which can
be removed any moment. Libre Office team for example is currently
discussing radical change
of the user interface which may lead to removal of Qt3 styles support.
LibreOffice is more than happy to accept TDE integration support.
10:50 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:55:35 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Not as direct as Clementine. But yes, one can argue that Trinity is not necessary and
work
should be abandoned based on the same arguments as removal of KOffice.
Are you going to add this kind of integration to Libre Office?
Clementine is
a direct continuation of Amarok
And KDE4 is a direct continuation of KDE3. Please be careful here. About what
sort of integration do you speak now?
dbus-qt and poppler-qt for starters. 
10:54 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On 19 June 2011 18:50, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Not as direct as Clementine. But yes, one can argue
that Trinity is not necessary and work
should be abandoned based on the same arguments as removal of KOffice.
I don't see where you are going with this. Everything you are saying
isn't really alluding to anything concrete. If it is obvious that your
KDE:KDE3 is so far superior, why are you bothering time with us?
Calvin Morrison
11:34 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 02:54:37 Calvin Morrison wrote:
Here I did not mean abandoning Trinity in favor of other KDE3 project seems you have
problems with understanding the meaning of the text.
Not as direct
as Clementine. But yes, one can argue that Trinity is not necessary and work
should be abandoned based on the same arguments as removal of KOffice.
I don't see where you are going with this. Everything you are saying
isn't really alluding to anything concrete. If it is obvious that your
KDE:KDE3 is so far superior, why are you bothering time with us?
9:46 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:38:41 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Actually, yes! I have done it before with other apps
and to be honest it
is not difficult at all.
If it so easy why not to start with Firefox for example? What prevents one from
adding KDE3/Qt3 support to it?
9:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:38:41 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
It already has that in the form of a plugin module. Please look in the
Trinity source repository; you will find kgtk-* which provides TDE/Qt3
theming for GTK applications.
Tim
Actually, yes! I have done it before with other
apps and to be honest
it
is not difficult at all.
If it so easy why not to start with Firefox for example? What prevents one
from
adding KDE3/Qt3 support to it?
10:47 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:53:50 Timothy Pearson wrote:
It already has that in the form of a plugin module.
Please look in the
Trinity source repository; you will find kgtk-* which provides TDE/Qt3
theming for GTK applications.
It exists in KDE:KDE3 as well, but it is not a proper integration.
20 Jun
20 Jun
3:11 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On 19/06/2011 22:28, Timothy Pearson wrote:
>
>> You can track the progress we are making on these meeting minutes
>> through here:
>> http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/30
>>
>
> This is a very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a major
> part of KDE.
>
Hi,
Maybe we can see this as "koffice is a part of the free software ecosystem" (and
is surely
a good software too). But supporting koffice in TDE might be a lot of work, so this is
really a matter of priority/human capacity instead of subjective battle, isn't it?
I wonder if there a clear Trinity manifesto out there? (except the about page
http://www.trinitydesktop.org/about.php)
Nicolas
7:59 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
Sad but a mayor reality, the solution maybe its port kofice 2 brand, but
curent work in TDE its a lot of, so if more people colaborate with devel
team in TDE and some people join to mantain or port koffice, its better.
currently TDE its focused on defines way of work and progress port of
portion of kde3 , so currenly porting to cmake. So currenly its a lot of
work..
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Nicolas Bercher <nbercher(a)yahoo.fr> wrote:
On 19/06/2011 22:28, Timothy Pearson wrote:
--
Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO)
http://qgqlochekone.blogspot.com
Cofundador de Venenux; debian based multimedia alike free only zealots
users (oh well, i try but..too many free guidelines buahhh)
http://shutendouji.net
creador de massenkoh linux; debian enhanchements for better up to date
support on stable brand, including non-free soft.
> You can track the progress we are making on these meeting minutes
>> through here:
>>
http://trinity.etherpad.**trinitydesktop.org/30<http://trinity.etherpad.…
>>
>>
> This is a very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a major
> part of KDE.
>
> Hi,
Maybe we can see this as "koffice is a part of the free software ecosystem"
(and is surely a good software too). But supporting koffice in TDE might be
a lot of work, so this is really a matter of priority/human capacity instead
of subjective battle, isn't it?
I wonder if there a clear Trinity manifesto out there? (except the about
page
http://www.trinitydesktop.org/**about.php<http://www.trinitydesktop.org/…
)
Nicolas
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19 Jun
19 Jun
8:28 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On 19 June 2011 16:20, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Honestly?
there are many better solutions to KOffice, and maintaining and ENTIRE
office suite is enough work on top of an entire Desktop Environment! I
think we are going to instead make patches for libreoffice
integration.
Another option may be Calligra in the future (current version of
koffice). they might be moving away from KDE4's kdelibs and going just
qt, which would open up that for us to use.
Calvin Morrison
You can track the progress we are making on these
meeting minutes through here:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/30
This is a very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a major part of KDE.
9:13 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 00:28:49 Calvin Morrison wrote:
Honestly?
there are many better solutions to KOffice, and maintaining and ENTIRE
office suite is enough work
Enough work? I suppose you know what do you talk about?
Did you try that work and found it too difficult? I am asking seriously, because in
KDE:KDE3
I did not touch KOffice for a year or more. Or maybe maintaining in Trinity is more
difficult?
You can track the progress we are making on these
meeting minutes through here:
http://trinity.etherpad.trinitydesktop.org/30
This is a very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a major part of KDE.
on top of an entire Desktop Environment! I
think we are going to instead make patches for libreoffice
integration.
Which patches exactly?
Another option may be Calligra in the future (current
version of
koffice). they might be moving away from KDE4's kdelibs and going just
qt, which would open up that for us to use.
First Trinity should be finally ported to Qt4. But I doubt Calligra will ever drop
dependence on kdelibs because pure Qt cannot provide the necessary level of components
integration.
9:18 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 00:28:49 Calvin Morrison
wrote:
Enough work? I suppose you know what do you talk about?
Did you try that work and found it too difficult? I am asking seriously,
because in KDE:KDE3
I did not touch KOffice for a year or more. Or maybe maintaining in
Trinity is more difficult?
I know as I have worked on Trinity for years now. The problem is not just
letting it sit in the repository, the problem is in enabling TQt4 support
for it. If you look at the Trinity roadmap, 3.5.13 is supposed to include
full TQt4 support (which will bring Qt4 support once TQt4 has been fully
stabilized). koffice is a very large code base that will take a
significant amount of time to port to TQt4, even with the automated tools
I have written to assist with that task.
I hope this helps some.
Tim
> You
can track the progress we are making on these meeting minutes
through here:
This is a very sad news that you are going to deprecate KOffice, a
major part of
KDE.
Honestly?
there are many better solutions to KOffice, and maintaining and ENTIRE
office suite is enough work
9:40 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:18:20 Timothy Pearson wrote:
I know as I have worked on Trinity for years now. The
problem is not just
letting it sit in the repository, the problem is in enabling TQt4 support
for it. If you look at the Trinity roadmap, 3.5.13 is supposed to include
full TQt4 support (which will bring Qt4 support once TQt4 has been fully
stabilized). koffice is a very large code base that will take a
significant amount of time to port to TQt4, even with the automated tools
I have written to assist with that task.
I see. But this points to a greater problem: aside KOffice there are still a large base
of KDE3 applications which are still not ported to Tqinterface.
They are not in your repository, but they exist. Rejecting them will make TDE a not-so
functional
desktop at least until full Qt4 integration is over.
And, btw, it honestly thought that you already completed Tqt porting of core KDE parts.
9:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:18:20 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
koffice is not core!
I know as I have worked on Trinity for years now.
The problem is not
just
letting it sit in the repository, the problem is in enabling TQt4
support
for it. If you look at the Trinity roadmap, 3.5.13 is supposed to
include
full TQt4 support (which will bring Qt4 support once TQt4 has been fully
stabilized). koffice is a very large code base that will take a
significant amount of time to port to TQt4, even with the automated
tools
I have written to assist with that task.
I see. But this points to a greater problem: aside KOffice there are still
a large base
of KDE3 applications which are still not ported to Tqinterface.
They are not in your repository, but they exist. Rejecting them will make
TDE a not-so functional
desktop at least until full Qt4 integration is over.
And, btw, it honestly thought that you already completed Tqt porting of
core KDE parts.
10:48 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:52:47 Timothy Pearson wrote:
This depends on the perspective. KDE:KDE3 has much more applications written for KDE3
and from this point of view all KDE3 components tat are part of the official distribution
look as core.
And, btw, it
honestly thought that you already completed Tqt porting of
core KDE parts.
koffice is not core!
11:19 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 01:52:47 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
This depends on the perspective. KDE:KDE3 has much more applications
written for KDE3
and from this point of view all KDE3 components tat are part of the
official distribution look as core.
"Much more applications". Curious then that the (large) Trinity userbase
has not run into issues due to missing applications in Trinity itself.
I submit that KDE:KDE3 is likely chock full of practically useless,
stagnant applications that very few people even knew existed back when
KDE3 was in use.
What are you doing to keep KDE3 up to date? What will you do when Qt3
finally is completely useless/uncompilable on modern desktops? How are
you improving KDE3 by adding new features? From what I can tell the
KDE:KDE3 maintainers are content to maintain a codebase that is not only
cluttered, but is slowly growing stale and irrelevant, just so that they
can claim to have "more appliations", which in and of itself is of dubious
value.
Not to be rude, but I have not seen much factual information from you,
just a lot of unsubstantiated and/or dubious claims. Please correct me if
I am wrong.
Timothy Pearson
Trinity Desktop Project
And, btw,
it honestly thought that you already completed Tqt porting
of
core KDE parts.
koffice is not core! 
11:33 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
I think it's not so much that Trinity doesn't like KOffice, and more-so that
they have to make some tough decisions regarding what projects to spend
their limited development resources on. I'm sure they'd be happy for people
to adopt other KDE apps. :-) If you can maintain (or pay someone to
maintain) KOffice, I'm sure they'll be happy to get help, and that they'll
be able to "save" another KDE app. As it is, they need to focus on the
projects they think will be the most useful to people in general/themselves
in particular. Personally, I'd rather the core and konqueror, etc are
stable, efficient, and converted to Qt4 sooner, rather than having KOffice
support, but that's just my opinion. I mean, I'd prefer both, but such is
life.
Lukas Korsika
Not Affiliated With Trinity Desktop Project
11:39 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
I think it's not so much that Trinity doesn't
like KOffice, and more-so
that
they have to make some tough decisions regarding what projects to spend
their limited development resources on. I'm sure they'd be happy for
people
to adopt other KDE apps. :-) If you can maintain (or pay someone to
maintain) KOffice, I'm sure they'll be happy to get help, and that they'll
be able to "save" another KDE app. As it is, they need to focus on the
projects they think will be the most useful to people in
general/themselves
in particular. Personally, I'd rather the core and konqueror, etc are
stable, efficient, and converted to Qt4 sooner, rather than having KOffice
support, but that's just my opinion. I mean, I'd prefer both, but such is
life.
Lukas Korsika
Not Affiliated With Trinity Desktop Project
I agree with Lukas here. Unfortunately we can't just drop koffice, as
there is at least one application within it that cannot be replaced, but
the overall goal was to save as much of the KDE3 experience as possible.
Polluting the repository with obsolete applications that perform functions
that are no longer needed in the real world is a sure fire way to kill a
project, unless there are so many developers attached to the project that
it can absorb the loss of time. Sadly, in the OSS world (and even in
corporations such as Microsoft), this is not the case.
I do not mean to promote one repository over another, but I would
appreciate it if the two main KDE3 / KDE3 fork repositories could coexist
without sniping at one another with comments about how much better one is,
or how disappointing it is that a decision was made, especially when such
decisions are made with the intent of increasing the value and stability
of this style of desktop environment.
Tim
11:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:39:56 Timothy Pearson wrote:
I do not mean to promote one repository over another,
but I would
appreciate it if the two main KDE3 / KDE3 fork repositories could coexist
without sniping at one another with comments about how much better one is,
or how disappointing it is that a decision was made, especially when such
decisions are made with the intent of increasing the value and stability
of this style of desktop environment.
Sorry I thought I had the right to express disappointment with deprcation of KOffice.
11:57 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:39:56 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
You do. The only thing I would ask is that you rationally explain why it
is a bad idea, which you did in the first part of your message. You will
notice that I immediately halted the deprecation based on that part alone.
It is NOT our intent to drop anything unless there is a very good reason.
Your mention of krita, etc. invalidated the assumptions under which we
were ready to drop koffice. There is a reason that the decision was made
during a meeting, so that people such as yourself could come and express
your views or bring to light things that we may have overlooked. As you
know, the codebase is large, and it is easy to overlook something that is
important to another individual.
Tim
I do not mean to promote one repository over
another, but I would
appreciate it if the two main KDE3 / KDE3 fork repositories could
coexist
without sniping at one another with comments about how much better one
is,
or how disappointing it is that a decision was made, especially when
such
decisions are made with the intent of increasing the value and stability
of this style of desktop environment.
Sorry I thought I had the right to express disappointment with deprcation
of KOffice.
20 Jun
20 Jun
4:17 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:39:56 Timothy Pearson wrote:
I agree with Lukas here. Unfortunately we can't
just drop koffice, as
there is at least one application within it that cannot be replaced, but
the overall goal was to save as much of the KDE3 experience as possible.
Polluting the repository with obsolete applications that perform functions
that are no longer needed in the real world
Btw, did you try to backport export/import filters from KDE4's KOffice?
They are fairly independent from the rest and already in cmake.
10:32 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
I would have to agree with Ilya Chernykh. While I do understand the
undertaking required to keep it, life has shown me, nothing worth
while, is ever easy. Becoming dependant on outside office suites,
which are now becoming fragmented (project fragmentation is FOSS's
kryptonite) is unwise.
I do use koffice, its has a lot of advantages OOo and its off shoots
don't. Too many to go into but avid users know.
Its something that needs to be considered patiently. Hast makes waste
and all that rot.
Thanks for listen (or reading rather)
Kate Draven
On 6/20/11, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:39:56 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
I agree with Lukas here. Unfortunately we
can't just drop koffice, as
there is at least one application within it that cannot be replaced, but
the overall goal was to save as much of the KDE3 experience as possible.
Polluting the repository with obsolete applications that perform functions
that are no longer needed in the real world
Btw, did you try to backport export/import filters from KDE4's KOffice?
They are fairly independent from the rest and already in cmake.
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22 Jun
22 Jun
2:54 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Katheryne Draven <borgqueen4(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
I would have to agree with Ilya Chernykh. While I do
understand the
undertaking required to keep it, life has shown me, nothing worth
while, is ever easy. Becoming dependant on outside office suites,
which are now becoming fragmented (project fragmentation is FOSS's
kryptonite) is unwise.
That is not an issue provided that they are open to integration patches,
IMHO. One always has the chance to fork that suite, integrate the patches
and supply ir to whoever wants that.
I do use koffice, its has a lot of advantages OOo and
its off shoots
don't. Too many to go into but avid users know.
I personally never was able to use KOffice 3.5. It didn't open any files,
the interface was a mess, it simply didn't work ok. The only app I ever used
regularly was Krita - which was quite good - though I mostly replaced it
with GIMP nowadays, even though I can install Krita with no problems.
I would very much like to hear what is so great about KOffice 3, as
LibreOffice is not perfect but I haven't truly found anything better.
Otherwise, my personal opinion on the matter is very much like of all
others. What we would gain with integration and consistent user interfaces
doesn't make up for the lack of features and file support under KOffice.
Best regards,
Tiago
Its something that needs to be considered patiently. Hast makes waste
and all that rot.
Thanks for listen (or reading rather)
Kate Draven
On 6/20/11, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus(a)gmail.com> wrote:
trinity-devel-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:39:56 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
> I agree with Lukas here. Unfortunately we can't just drop koffice, as
> there is at least one application within it that cannot be replaced, but
> the overall goal was to save as much of the KDE3 experience as possible.
> Polluting the repository with obsolete applications that perform
functions
that are
no longer needed in the real world
Btw, did you try to backport export/import filters from KDE4's KOffice?
They are fairly independent from the rest and already in cmake.
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7:18 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 06:54:36 Tiago Marques wrote:
I still yet have to see at least one integration patch to Open Office by the Trinity
team.
I would have
to agree with Ilya Chernykh. While I do understand the
undertaking required to keep it, life has shown me, nothing worth
while, is ever easy. Becoming dependant on outside office suites,
which are now becoming fragmented (project fragmentation is FOSS's
kryptonite) is unwise.
That is not an issue provided that they are open to integration patches,
IMHO. One always has the chance to fork that suite,
integrate the patches
and supply ir to whoever wants that.
Oh yes. This team is so huge that in can even fork Open Office.
3:20 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 06:54:36 Tiago Marques
wrote:
I still yet have to see at least one integration patch to Open Office by
the Trinity team.
So far the upstream KDE3 integration has been working just fine with no
changes. And patches will be submitted to LibreOffice as well, when they
are necessary.
I would
have to agree with Ilya Chernykh. While I do understand the
undertaking required to keep it, life has shown me, nothing worth
while, is ever easy. Becoming dependant on outside office suites,
which are now becoming fragmented (project fragmentation is FOSS's
kryptonite) is unwise.
That is not an issue provided that they are open to integration patches,
IMHO. One always has the chance to fork that suite,
integrate the patches
and supply ir to whoever wants that.
Oh yes. This team is so huge that in can even fork Open Office.
10:15 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
Hi all,
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Timothy Pearson <
kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net> wrote:
Which, though far from perfect, is good enough IMHO, given the state of open
source office suites.
I'd love to have the free time to take KOffice and make it an even better
suite than LibreOffice - unfortunately I don't have the time, nor does
anyone else from what I was able to read from this thread so far. One can
also argue that, despite the benefits of high integration, the office suite
war is not where a good linux desktop environment wants to be part of.
Consider that it is hard enough for non-technical users to become users of
LibreOffice, let alone of an "obscure" office suite that, was rather
sub-par(again, last time I checked). Same for browsers.
It is rather pointless to be pursuing an independent browser when the ones
already available(especially Chrome) integrates well enough with xdg
utilities to provide a rather seamless usage experience. The only lacking
points, much more easily fixable than maintaing a full, modern web browser,
are theming and file dialogs. Consider how pointless it is that most people
end up never touching browsers like Epiphany or Konqueror. It has taken
Google at least two years to bring Chrome up to speed with Firefox, at least
in features and porting to other OSs.
One must face the reality that even after a lot of work is put into a
browser, and it's good and all, most people still want to use what they are
familiar with, something that for a project as small as Trinity has
repercussions on the rest of what still is an excellent desktop environment.
Same is applicable to office suites - it is hard enough to get people to
send you ODF files.
My personal opinion is that it is better to focus on overall usability -
we're not Apple, nor Google, so don't expect relying only on DE + Kernel for
your daily needs, even though that would be a wonderful goal for this
project if it ever grows that big.
And this is just plain silly. Of course we are not going to fork
OpenOffice!
What was probably meant was that we can supply patches for
OpenOffice/LibreOffice and build binaries ourselves if the main distros
will not build it with TDE support included. That is a very different
concept than a fork.
Precisely, that's what I meant. Thanks Tim.
Best regards,
Tiago
On Wednesday
22 June 2011 06:54:36 Tiago Marques wrote:
I still yet have to see at least one integration patch to Open Office by
the Trinity team.
So far the upstream KDE3 integration has been working just fine with no
changes. And patches will be submitted to LibreOffice as well, when they
are necessary.
I would
have to agree with Ilya Chernykh. While I do understand the
undertaking required to keep it, life has shown me, nothing worth
while, is ever easy. Becoming dependant on outside office suites,
which are now becoming fragmented (project fragmentation is FOSS's
kryptonite) is unwise.
That is not an issue provided that they are open to integration patches,
IMHO. One always has the chance to fork that suite,
integrate the patches
and supply ir to whoever wants that.
Oh yes. This team is so huge that in can even fork Open Office. Tim
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23 Jun
23 Jun
11:52 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 19:20:51 Timothy Pearson wrote:
I still yet have to see at least one integration patch to Open Office by
the Trinity team.
So far the upstream KDE3 integration has been working just fine with no
changes.
Not quite correct. The file picker was broken for a long time.
And Trinity did nothing to patch it until openSUSE people fixed it finally.
The integration with KDE3 styles is still far from perfect.
Don't you think you overestimate your abilities?
I would have
to agree with Ilya Chernykh. While I do understand the
undertaking required to keep it, life has shown me, nothing worth
while, is ever easy. Becoming dependant on outside office suites,
which are now becoming fragmented (project fragmentation is FOSS's
kryptonite) is unwise.
That is not an issue provided that they are open to integration patches,
IMHO. And patches will be submitted to LibreOffice as well,
when they
are necessary.
And this is just plain silly. Of course we are not going to fork OpenOffice!
What was probably meant was that we can supply patches for
OpenOffice/LibreOffice and build binaries ourselves if the main distros
will not build it with TDE support included. That is a very different
concept than a fork.
As I already said LibreOffice now considers a radical change in interface.
This means the support for Qt3 styles could require a complete rewrite.
One always has the chance to fork that suite,
integrate the patches
and supply ir to whoever wants that.
Oh yes. This team is so huge that in can even fork Open Office.
24 Jun
24 Jun
12:12 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Wednesday 22 June 2011 19:20:51 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
by
Not quite correct. The file picker was broken for a long time.
And Trinity did nothing to patch it until openSUSE people fixed it
finally.
Interesting that I never noticed a problem with it (???)
> >
I would have to agree with Ilya Chernykh. While I do understand
the
> > undertaking required to keep it, life
has shown me, nothing worth
> > while, is ever easy. Becoming dependant on outside office suites,
> > which are now becoming fragmented (project fragmentation is FOSS's
> > kryptonite) is unwise.
> >
> >
> That is not an issue provided that they are open to integration
patches,
IMHO.
I still yet have to see at least one integration patch to Open Office the Trinity team.
So far the upstream KDE3 integration has been working just fine with no
changes.
The integration with KDE3 styles is still far from perfect.
Don't you think you overestimate your abilities?
No, not really. However I think you do overestimate yours...
And patches will be submitted to LibreOffice as
well, when they
are necessary.
And this is just plain silly. Of course we are not going to fork
OpenOffice!
What was probably meant was that we can supply patches for
OpenOffice/LibreOffice and build binaries ourselves if the main distros
will not build it with TDE support included. That is a very different
concept than a fork.
As I already said LibreOffice now considers a radical change in interface.
This means the support for Qt3 styles could require a complete rewrite.
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One always has the chance to fork that suite,
integrate the patches
and supply ir to whoever wants that.
Oh yes. This team is so huge that in can even fork Open Office.
12:19 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
<snip>
Specifically, how are you providing Qt4 compatibility? How are you
improving KOffice to properly read and write standard .ods/.odt file
formats? Have you fixed any of the couple hundred bugs on the Trinity
bugtracker? All I see you doing is packaging other people's source and
patching minor compilation issues, without reporting the patches upstream
via the bugtracker.
There is nothing wrong with having two different positions here--the
Trinity project is a FOSS project, tasked with new development, general
maintenance, bug control, and project direction management (that includes
deciding what is part of the project and what is not), and you are a
distribution packager/maintainer, tasked with making upstream FOSS
projects work properly on your distribution. Am I incorrect?
The
integration with KDE3 styles is still far from perfect.
Don't you think you overestimate your abilities?
No, not really. However I think you do overestimate yours...
12:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 04:19:52 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Specifically, how are you providing Qt4 compatibility?
I ever claimed I patched KDE3 for Qt4 support?
The integration with KDE3 styles is still far from
perfect.
Don't you think you overestimate your abilities?
No, not really. However I think you do overestimate yours... How are you
improving KOffice to properly read and write standard .ods/.odt file
formats?
I ever claimed that I patched KOffice for ODF support?
By the way, if you succeed to make KOffice to open ODF files, please let me know.
Have you fixed any of the couple hundred bugs on the
Trinity
bugtracker?
Sorry never looked into Trinity bugtracker in search for bugreports.
I fixed some bugs which I personally encountered and sent you the patches if they
were connected with the KDE3 source.
All I see you doing is packaging other people's
source and
patching minor compilation issues, without reporting the patches upstream
via the bugtracker.
I reported the patches which I made here in the list. Of course I can do it using the
bugtracker if you wish.
There is nothing wrong with having two different
positions here--the
Trinity project is a FOSS project, tasked with new development, general
maintenance, bug control, and project direction management (that includes
deciding what is part of the project and what is not), and you are a
distribution packager/maintainer, tasked with making upstream FOSS
projects work properly on your distribution. Am I incorrect?
You are correct. So what?
12:48 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 04:19:52 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
Specifically, how are you providing Qt4 compatibility?
I ever claimed I patched KDE3 for Qt4 support?
The point of all of the above is to establish who is in control of the
Trinity desktop project. Personally I am sick and tired of hearing that
things "cannot be done"--that is merely what the KDE4 devs have started as
propaganda to promote their new way of doing things.
Rather than criticizing almost every decision we have made, please try to
help where possible and make KDE3/TDE a better desktop environment. If
you see a potential problem, why don't you see what the best alternatives
are from your perspective and mention them on this list, or even try to
put in some work towards fixing the problem?
We have enough idle critics out on the Internet; please don't be one on
this mailing list.
Thanks!
Tim
The integration with KDE3 styles is still far from
perfect.
Don't you think you overestimate your abilities?
No, not really. However I think you do overestimate yours... How are you
improving KOffice to properly read and write standard .ods/.odt file
formats?
I ever claimed that I patched KOffice for ODF support?
By the way, if you succeed to make KOffice to open ODF files, please let
me know.
Have you fixed any of the couple hundred bugs on
the Trinity
bugtracker?
Sorry never looked into Trinity bugtracker in search for bugreports.
I fixed some bugs which I personally encountered and sent you the patches
if they
were connected with the KDE3 source.
All I see you doing is packaging other
people's source and
patching minor compilation issues, without reporting the patches
upstream
via the bugtracker.
I reported the patches which I made here in the list. Of course I can do
it using the
bugtracker if you wish.
There is nothing wrong with having two different
positions here--the
Trinity project is a FOSS project, tasked with new development, general
maintenance, bug control, and project direction management (that
includes
deciding what is part of the project and what is not), and you are a
distribution packager/maintainer, tasked with making upstream FOSS
projects work properly on your distribution. Am I incorrect?
You are correct. So what?
1:02 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
<snip>
Rather than criticizing almost every decision we have
made, please try to
help where possible and make KDE3/TDE a better desktop environment. If
you see a potential problem, why don't you see what the best alternatives
are from your perspective and mention them on this list, or even try to
put in some work towards fixing the problem?
We have enough idle critics out on the Internet; please don't be one on
this mailing list.
Just to clarify, if you see a potential problem with the project please
feel free to bring it up on this list. What has really struck a raw nerve
here is the promotion of the apparently dead-end KDE:KDE3 as a real world
alternative to the Trinity desktop project, combined with the
rejection/criticism of our ideas with absolutely no alternatives presented
or suggestions made.
Most FOSS projects establish their leadership based on who has contributed
the most towards advancing the goals of the project. We are aiming to be
somewhat different by listening to our users and adjusting our plans
accordingly, but please realize that all of us are working on this project
for free in our spare time, and therefore may still have different
priorities than yours. If you really want to see something done, as in
all FOSS projects, the best way is to do it yourself, or pay someone to do
it for you.
I hope this clarifies things a bit, and I hope that this thread, which has
long outlived its useful purpose, can now be put to rest.
Tim
1:21 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 05:02:59 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Just to clarify, if you see a potential problem with
the project please
feel free to bring it up on this list. What has really struck a raw nerve
here is the promotion of the apparently dead-end KDE:KDE3 as a real world
alternative to the Trinity desktop project,
From a user's point of view currently it is an alternative. But you are incorrect:
I never made any promoting, marketing etc here. KDE3 in openSUSE just works
and if somebody will package Trinity in OBS it will be excellent.
combined with the
rejection/criticism of our ideas with absolutely no alternatives presented
or suggestions made.
Well an alternative to dropping KOffice is porting ODF support
from KDE4's KOffice. Do you like this idea? You said you have much of resources even
to reimplement
KDE3 support in Libre Office if it completely changes its interface, so adding ODF would
be just as
to swat a moquito, won't it?
2:18 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 05:02:59 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
Then please be careful with your word choice. What you have written here
in the past has, from a native English speaker's point of view, sounded
very antagonistic and competitive.
Just to clarify, if you see a potential problem
with the project please
feel free to bring it up on this list. What has really struck a raw
nerve
here is the promotion of the apparently dead-end KDE:KDE3 as a real
world
alternative to the Trinity desktop project,
From a user's point of view currently it is an alternative. But you are
incorrect:
I never made any promoting, marketing etc here. KDE3 in openSUSE just
works
and if somebody will package Trinity in OBS it will be excellent. combined with the
rejection/criticism of our ideas with absolutely no alternatives
presented
or suggestions made.
Well an alternative to dropping KOffice is porting ODF support
from KDE4's KOffice. Do you like this idea? You said you have much of
resources even to reimplement
KDE3 support in Libre Office if it completely changes its interface, so
adding ODF would be just as
to swat a moquito, won't it?
2:36 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
"The point of all of the above is to establish who is in control of
the Trinity desktop project.
Personally I am sick and tired of hearing that things "cannot be
done"--that is merely what the
KDE4 devs have started as propaganda to promote their new way of doing things."
This is true, which is why I've left all kde4 project nor will I
support any kde4 distros. Also why I'm reluctant to join any dev group
period.
When I said I would continue to use my Ark Linux 3.5.10 setup, I was
also told it "cannot be done" by the kde4 devs I was working with. I'm
still using my AL setup very productively with no real drawbacks.
"Rather than criticizing almost every decision we have made, please
try to help where possible
and make KDE3/TDE a better desktop environment. If you see a
potential problem, why don't
you see what the best alternatives are from your perspective and
mention them on this list, or
even try to put in some work towards fixing the problem?"
There are times I disagree with something, however it doesn't mean I
don't explore it. Perhaps I'm wrong... Its never a waste of time, if
something is learned from it. So I have to agree. Should TDE choose to
dump koffice in favour of OOo or the like, then let it be. Perhaps it
will work, if it doesn't I KNOW, the devs will see this and rethink
themselves. To date no one has show themselves to have a poor grip on
reality.
"We have enough idle critics out on the Internet; please don't be one
on this mailing list."
Agreed. We are better than this. To date, the only other project that
hears all the voices, is Unity. Ultimately I believe it will put both
project well ahead of the game. But such things take time and
patience.
I hope I haven't made matter worse by adding my two pea. It just
saddens me to see such strife where none need be.
Cheers,
Kate
2:45 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 06:18:02 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Then please be careful with your word choice. What
you have written here
in the past has, from a native English speaker's point of view, sounded
very antagonistic and competitive.
Here is another example of what I mentioned above. Whether you realize it
or not, the way this statement is phrased it is rather insulting. How an
average English-speaking individual might read this would be as follows:
"Since you claim to have so many resources (which I really don't think you
do) then do what I suggested a long time ago, since I think it is terribly
easy and cannot understand why it is so very hard for you to do."
Is that really what you meant? If not then please say so! I had not
considered that there may be a language issue here.
No, this was written with sarcasm. I know that porting ODF support from
KDE4 is uneasy. But it is of course easier than re-implementing KDE3 support in an office
suite starting from zero.
combined with the
rejection/criticism of our ideas with absolutely no alternatives
presented
or suggestions made.
Well an alternative to dropping KOffice is porting ODF support
from KDE4's KOffice. Do you like this idea? You said you have much of
resources even to reimplement
KDE3 support in Libre Office if it completely changes its interface, so
adding ODF would be just as
to swat a moquito, won't it? To answer your question, yes, I think that is a good
idea. Would you like
to try your hand at it? I probably will not get around to doing so until
the entire TQt4 port is complete and some of the open bugs have been
addressed.
I also have much of the ongoing tasks. First of all it's adding more software
to reach at least 500 packages in KDE:KDE3. Then I will evaluate a possibility
to port Yast2 with Qt3 support from an older openSUSE release. Then I will
probably repair some broken default icon themes of KDE3 (i.e. iKons and so on),
then will probably look into some other annoying bugs of KDE3. I also
want to make the tray to use as much rows as the taskbar does.
There are multiple other tasks, for example, updating weather stations info
(i saw a report on the internet that the weather station for say, Novosibirsk is
outdated and there was a patch but there is some way to automatize this
updating actually).
The project is currently somewhat swamped; once the
TQt4 port is complete
and CMake support has been added, we have enough developer resources to
keep things moving along quickly. However, we are still in the middle of
those two operations and so are not able to absorb as many of the
miscellaneous tasks (such as gcc 4.6 compilation repairs, .odf support,
etc.) as you or I would like. Any help is much appreciated during this
transitional period.
5:07 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
I also have much of the ongoing tasks. First of all
it's adding more
software
to reach at least 500 packages in KDE:KDE3. Then I will evaluate a
possibility
to port Yast2 with Qt3 support from an older openSUSE release. Then I will
probably repair some broken default icon themes of KDE3 (i.e. iKons and so
on),
then will probably look into some other annoying bugs of KDE3. I also
want to make the tray to use as much rows as the taskbar does.
There are multiple other tasks, for example, updating weather stations
info
(i saw a report on the internet that the weather station for say,
Novosibirsk is
outdated and there was a patch but there is some way to automatize this
updating actually).
Sounds great! Would you mind sending us a copy of each fix as you create
it? Simply sending an Email to this list with the patch attached in plain
text (no compressed files please) is sufficient; our tools will capture
the patch and add it to a queue for review and application to the Trinity
source.
Thanks!
Tim
1 Jul
1 Jul
8:48 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
And by the way, I have just checked - KOffice supports .odf and .odt quite well. Seems
there is nothing to patch so what's the problem?
The only advantage of OpenOffice is the support of VB macros.
8:55 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Jul 1, 2011, at 16:48, Ilya Chernykh <anixxsus(a)gmail.com> wrote:
And by the way, I have just checked - KOffice supports
.odf and .odt quite well. Seems there is nothing to patch so what's the problem?
The only advantage of OpenOffice is the support of VB macros.
Why are we discussing this now? You do not need to continue, we are
already going to keep KOffice.
--
later, Robert Xu
24 Jun
24 Jun
12:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 04:12:12 Timothy Pearson wrote:
This problem has been discussed many times even on this list.
?
Not quite
correct. The file picker was broken for a long time.
And Trinity did nothing to patch it until openSUSE people fixed it
finally.
Interesting that I never noticed a problem with it (???) The
integration with KDE3 styles is still far from perfect.
Don't you think you overestimate your abilities?
No, not really. However I think you do overestimate yours...
12:34 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 04:12:12 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
This problem has been discussed many times even on this list.
Link please?
Not quite
correct. The file picker was broken for a long time.
And Trinity did nothing to patch it until openSUSE people fixed it
finally.
Interesting that I never noticed a problem with it (???)
1:08 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 04:34:45 Timothy Pearson wrote:
This problem has been discussed many times even on this list.
Link please?
I actually do not understand why do you ask me since you was one of the people who
participated in the discussion: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::1693
other discussions:
http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::1680
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::1126
http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::183
http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::1708
ftp://ftp.heanet.ie/disk1/lincomlinux/repo/MeetBot/trinity-desktop-meeting/2011/trinity-desktop-meeting.2011-03-16-23.22.log.html
Not quite
correct. The file picker was broken for a long time.
And Trinity did nothing to patch it until openSUSE people fixed it
finally.
Interesting that I never noticed a problem with it (???)
2:08 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 04:34:45 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
Link please?
I actually do not understand why do you ask me since you was one of the
people who
participated in the discussion:
http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::1693
Ah, OK, now I know what you are referring to.
That is not a problem in the file picker code itself; rather it is a
problem in the OpenOffice.org build options, which are set by the
distribution that provides the binary packages (in this case Debian). Out
of courtesy to my Ubuntu userbase I have rebuilt OpenOffice with the KDE3
integration module turned on; no changes to the file picker code itself
required.
That being said, I understand this is not a long term solution. I will
respond shortly to your other message with more information.
Tim
> Not quite correct. The file picker was broken for
a long time.
> And Trinity did nothing to patch it until openSUSE people fixed it
> finally.
Interesting that I never noticed a problem with it (???)
This problem has been discussed many times even on this list.
2:33 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 06:08:28 Timothy Pearson wrote:
Ah, OK, now I know what you are referring to.
That is not a problem in the file picker code itself; rather it is a
problem in the OpenOffice.org build options, which are set by the
distribution that provides the binary packages (in this case Debian). Out
of courtesy to my Ubuntu userbase I have rebuilt OpenOffice with the KDE3
integration module turned on; no changes to the file picker code itself
required.
No, this is not a problem of turning on the KDE3 integration.
The file picker did not work even with KDE3 integration turned on.
That being said, I understand this is not a long term
solution. I will
respond shortly to your other message with more information.
3:02 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 06:08:28 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
Was a bug report filed? I have not run into this problem myself, and I
use OpenOffice on a daily basis.
Tim
Ah, OK, now I know what you are referring to.
That is not a problem in the file picker code itself; rather it is a
problem in the OpenOffice.org build options, which are set by the
distribution that provides the binary packages (in this case Debian).
Out
of courtesy to my Ubuntu userbase I have rebuilt OpenOffice with the
KDE3
integration module turned on; no changes to the file picker code itself
required.
No, this is not a problem of turning on the KDE3 integration.
The file picker did not work even with KDE3 integration turned on.
3:41 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 07:02:37 Timothy Pearson wrote:
You probably used the standard OpenOffice file picker.
No, this is
not a problem of turning on the KDE3 integration.
The file picker did not work even with KDE3 integration turned on.
Was a bug report filed? I have not run into this problem myself, and I
use OpenOffice on a daily basis.
3:47 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Friday 24 June 2011 07:02:37 Timothy Pearson
wrote:
You probably used the standard OpenOffice file picker.
No I did not. I do know the difference between the two!
If you want to see what was compiled, download the OpenOffice source from
QuickBuild and take a look. As there is no central upstream repository
for the integration patches (yet) it was up to each distribution to keep a
copy of what worked. It is quite possible that I happen to have a version
that works, in which case I need to upload it to the Trinity SVN so that
others may use it as well.
Tim
No, this
is not a problem of turning on the KDE3 integration.
The file picker did not work even with KDE3 integration turned on.
Was a bug report filed? I have not run into this problem myself, and I
use OpenOffice on a daily basis.
19 Jun
19 Jun
11:49 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:33:07 Lukas Korsika wrote:
I think it's not so much that Trinity doesn't
like KOffice, and more-so that
they have to make some tough decisions regarding what projects to spend
their limited development resources on. I'm sure they'd be happy for people
to adopt other KDE apps. :-) If you can maintain (or pay someone to
maintain) KOffice, I'm sure they'll be happy to get help, and that they'll
be able to "save" another KDE app.
I think there is little people who can do porting of KOffice to Tqt interface.
11:48 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:19:17 Timothy Pearson wrote:
I cannot comment on this. But note that say, Alt Linux includes many
KDE3 apps besides Trinity.
This depends
on the perspective. KDE:KDE3 has much more applications
written for KDE3
and from this point of view all KDE3 components tat are part of the
official distribution look as core.
"Much more applications". Curious then that the (large) Trinity userbase
has not run into issues due to missing applications in Trinity itself. I submit that KDE:KDE3 is likely chock full of
practically useless,
stagnant applications that very few people even knew existed back when
KDE3 was in use.
Well actually it turns out that KDE packages were spread and dispersed
between multiple distros and no distro ever had even 50% of all available packages.
I would say that openSUSE had about 10% of all available KDE3 packages
at KDE3's peak.
What are you doing to keep KDE3 up to date? What will
you do when Qt3
finally is completely useless/uncompilable on modern desktops?
I don't think this is a near future. Note that both Qt3 and kdebase3 are parts of
openSUSE now and for the forseeable future. They receive patches from Novell
employees. Anyway I am glad that such project as Trinity exists, which certifies
that KDE3 has its future.
How are
you improving KDE3 by adding new features?
From what I can tell the
KDE:KDE3 maintainers are content to maintain a codebase that is not only
cluttered, but is slowly growing stale and irrelevant,
There are different packages of different value. I keep in the repo anything useful.
If an app was ported to Qt4 I consider it to be another application even if it has
the same name and higher version number because in many cases porting to Qt4 indeed
requires complete rewriting with loss of function.
just so that they
can claim to have "more appliations", which in and of itself is of dubious
value.
So your choice is to drop anything step by step? Actually I appreciate the
strategic moves that you do (porting to tqinteface, to cmake etc) but whether Trinity
will be of any value if it drops software that is around KDE?
Not to be rude, but I have not seen much factual
information from you,
just a lot of unsubstantiated and/or dubious claims. Please correct me if
I am wrong.
What info do you want?
20 Jun
20 Jun
12:17 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-devel] Deprecate KOffice
On Monday 20 June 2011 03:19:17 Timothy Pearson wrote:
What are you doing to keep KDE3 up to date? What will
you do when Qt3
finally is completely useless/uncompilable on modern desktops?
And I think those who deal with KDE4 have more reasons to fear transition to Qt5/KDE5
4893
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58 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
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Calvin Morrison -
Ilya Chernykh -
Katheryne Draven -
Lukas Korsika -
Nicolas Bercher -
PICCORO McKAY Lenz -
Robert Xu -
Tiago Marques -
Timothy Pearson