Am Dienstag, 11. November 2014 schrieb David Hare:

On 11/11/14 14:11, Timothy Pearson wrote:

...

Out of curiosity why did you pin CUPS?

Thanks!

Tim

Because cups-daemon depends libsystemd0 ..

Rebuilding 1.7.5 (in theory, systemd support is optional) is proving difficult (partly because Debian splits cups into ~18 separate packages with interdependencies)

D

exegnulinux made it to the list of non-systemd debian derivatives :-) http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319

BTW, good work!

Nik

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 22:02:47 -0800 Robert Peters robertpeters9@gmail.com wrote:

Iceweasel won't start, claiming that an instance of it is already running.

Does "ps -ef | grep iceweasel" return anything? If it does, "killall iceweasel" and try to start it again.

E. Liddell

On 15 November 2014 11:25, David Hare davidahare@gmail.com wrote:

...

It is working fairly well for me now. Installed it with /home on the same partition as /, since the instructions imply that putting /home on a separate partition will cause that partition to be formatted, which I don't want to happen.

I thought that was fixed, will check that later. Not sure if it's a good idea sharing /home with other OS but that's up to the user.

...

A few glitches: the wizard runs each time on startup.

I know.. will fix in next version. In the meantime, in ~/.trinity/share/config/startupconfig change:(kpersonalizerrc_general_firstlogin=)"true" to "false"

Iceweasel won't

...

start, claiming that an instance of it is already running. I installed Skype from deb http://download.skype.com/linux/repos/debian/ stable non-free; it segfaults when I try to run it. -R

Difficult to help with that because here, iceweasel works normally post-install but will check again.

Can't help much with skype except you seem to have installed from a "stable" repo while this is Jessie (testing), whether that version is suitable for Jessie I don't know.

Thanks for writing. Where possible, I like to share /home with a user of the same name from another distro (in this case Lubuntu). This in order to not duplicate files like data and browser cache. But my worry is that the settings for one distro might affect the settings for the other. So I have a different user for each, and symlink many user directories from one into the other.

That's why Iceweasel didn't start. I symlinked ~/.mozilla from the Lubuntu user to the Exegnu user; after I removed that link, Iceweasel started okay.

Will try the startupconfig change. Looks like for now I'll have to use Skype under Lubuntu.

Robert

On 15 November 2014 19:51, David Hare davidahare@gmail.com wrote:

Just note, this is Debian "testing".. things are likely to be broken. I don't know and can't predict what.

The future of Debian itself is in doubt (systemd fiasco, which affects all other distros)

At the moment, TDE is gaining ground as just about the only fully-functional DE out there for those of us who do not wish to run systemd. The only other alternative seems to be openbox (a WM rather than a DE).

Here, a recompiled dbus has removed all systemd dependencies (although I dont use the full TDE "meta"). I just got back "suspend" in TDE logout thanks to consolekit2.

I really don't have a clue about skype.

From reading various reports on systemd, I like the idea of a DE that doesn't use it. Given the uncertainty about Debian, I might go to using Gentoo, or look into the feasibility of using TDE in one of the BSDs.

Robert

On Sunday 16 November 2014 09:23:30 Michael . wrote:

Debian's future is not in doubt. I find it sad that things like this are being spread.

I agree with Michael. Debian's future is not in any doubt.

Lisi

On 16 November 2014 15:48, Robert Peters robertpeters9@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 15 November 2014 19:51, David Hare davidahare@gmail.com wrote:

...

Just note, this is Debian "testing".. things are likely to be broken. I don't know and can't predict what.

The future of Debian itself is in doubt (systemd fiasco, which affects

all

...

other distros)

At the moment, TDE is gaining ground as just about the only

fully-functional

...

DE out there for those of us who do not wish to run systemd. The only

other

...

alternative seems to be openbox (a WM rather than a DE).

Here, a recompiled dbus has removed all systemd dependencies (although I dont use the full TDE "meta"). I just got back "suspend" in TDE logout thanks to consolekit2.

I really don't have a clue about skype.

From reading various reports on systemd, I like the idea of a DE that doesn't use it. Given the uncertainty about Debian, I might go to using Gentoo, or look into the feasibility of using TDE in one of the BSDs.

Robert

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On Sunday 16 November 2014 10.40:46 Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Sunday 16 November 2014 09:23:30 Michael . wrote:

...

Debian's future is not in doubt. I find it sad that things like this are being spread.

I agree with Michael. Debian's future is not in any doubt.

Lisi

As long as there is a way to compile a "fork" without systemd, I guess there will be a choice.

I find it a little worrying that applications depend on systemd, as that restricts the choice.

I am working with openSuSE (that uses systemd) and, from a users point of view, I did not (yet?) see any problem. For Jessie I'll wait until it becomes "stable".

Thierry

On Sunday 16 November 2014 10:24:03 Michael . wrote:

The talk about forking Debian to avoid systemd is also not correct. It doesn't take into account that systemd is only the default, like Gnome is the default. You do not have to have systemd if you don't want it. You do have choices and all this talk is based on nothing but misinformation and only helps to spread the exact same information.

It really is a pity that on a message group like this that such misinformation is spread so easily as though it is truth.

I use Debian. I have never had Gnome on my computer. It has been the Debian default for a while.

As Michael says, systemd is just the default. I agree with him that it seems a pity for the FUD to be spreading from Debian user to other lists.

Lisi

On my own followup, below is the installation log, indicating something major is seriously amiss with installing jessie-tde live isos on a virtualbox vm. Iam stopping trying to install jessie-tde on a vm for now, will try to install it on an old t61 laptop instead, but any help with the mess below would be appreciated. d.

......................

Current default time zone: 'Pacific/Honolulu' Local time is now: Mon Nov 24 00:39:08 HST 2014. Universal Time is now: Mon Nov 24 10:39:08 UTC 2014.

mke2fs 1.42.12 (29-Aug-2014)

Usage: mount [-lhV] mount -a [options] mount [options] [--source] <source> | [--target] <directory> mount [options] <source> <directory> mount <operation> <mountpoint> [<target>]

Options: -a, --all mount all filesystems mentioned in fstab -c, --no-canonicalize don't canonicalize paths -f, --fake dry run; skip the mount(2) syscall -F, --fork fork off for each device (use with -a) -T, --fstab <path> alternative file to /etc/fstab -h, --help display this help text and exit -i, --internal-only don't call the mount.<type> helpers -l, --show-labels lists all mounts with LABELs -n, --no-mtab don't write to /etc/mtab -o, --options <list> comma-separated list of mount options -O, --test-opts <list> limit the set of filesystems (use with -a) -r, --read-only mount the filesystem read-only (same as -o ro) -t, --types <list> limit the set of filesystem types --source <src> explicitly specifies source (path, label, uuid) --target <target> explicitly specifies mountpoint -v, --verbose say what is being done -V, --version display version information and exit -w, --rw, --read-write mount the filesystem read-write (default)

-h, --help display this help and exit -V, --version output version information and exit

Source: -L, --label <label> synonym for LABEL=<label> -U, --uuid <uuid> synonym for UUID=<uuid> LABEL=<label> specifies device by filesystem label UUID=<uuid> specifies device by filesystem UUID PARTLABEL=<label> specifies device by partition label PARTUUID=<uuid> specifies device by partition UUID <device> specifies device by path <directory> mountpoint for bind mounts (see --bind/rbind) <file> regular file for loopdev setup

Operations: -B, --bind mount a subtree somewhere else (same as -o bind) -M, --move move a subtree to some other place -R, --rbind mount a subtree and all submounts somewhere else --make-shared mark a subtree as shared --make-slave mark a subtree as slave --make-private mark a subtree as private --make-unbindable mark a subtree as unbindable --make-rshared recursively mark a whole subtree as shared --make-rslave recursively mark a whole subtree as slave --make-rprivate recursively mark a whole subtree as private --make-runbindable recursively mark a whole subtree as unbindable

For more details see mount(8).

Usage: mount [-lhV] mount -a [options] mount [options] [--source] <source> | [--target] <directory> mount [options] <source> <directory> mount <operation> <mountpoint> [<target>]

Options: -a, --all mount all filesystems mentioned in fstab -c, --no-canonicalize don't canonicalize paths -f, --fake dry run; skip the mount(2) syscall -F, --fork fork off for each device (use with -a) -T, --fstab <path> alternative file to /etc/fstab -h, --help display this help text and exit -i, --internal-only don't call the mount.<type> helpers -l, --show-labels lists all mounts with LABELs -n, --no-mtab don't write to /etc/mtab -o, --options <list> comma-separated list of mount options -O, --test-opts <list> limit the set of filesystems (use with -a) -r, --read-only mount the filesystem read-only (same as -o ro) -t, --types <list> limit the set of filesystem types --source <src> explicitly specifies source (path, label, uuid) --target <target> explicitly specifies mountpoint -v, --verbose say what is being done -V, --version display version information and exit -w, --rw, --read-write mount the filesystem read-write (default)

-h, --help display this help and exit -V, --version output version information and exit

Source: -L, --label <label> synonym for LABEL=<label> -U, --uuid <uuid> synonym for UUID=<uuid> LABEL=<label> specifies device by filesystem label UUID=<uuid> specifies device by filesystem UUID PARTLABEL=<label> specifies device by partition label PARTUUID=<uuid> specifies device by partition UUID <device> specifies device by path <directory> mountpoint for bind mounts (see --bind/rbind) <file> regular file for loopdev setup

Operations: -B, --bind mount a subtree somewhere else (same as -o bind) -M, --move move a subtree to some other place -R, --rbind mount a subtree and all submounts somewhere else --make-shared mark a subtree as shared --make-slave mark a subtree as slave --make-private mark a subtree as private --make-unbindable mark a subtree as unbindable --make-rshared recursively mark a whole subtree as shared --make-rslave recursively mark a whole subtree as slave --make-rprivate recursively mark a whole subtree as private --make-runbindable recursively mark a whole subtree as unbindable

For more details see mount(8).

Usage: mount [-lhV] mount -a [options] mount [options] [--source] <source> | [--target] <directory> mount [options] <source> <directory> mount <operation> <mountpoint> [<target>]

Options: -a, --all mount all filesystems mentioned in fstab -c, --no-canonicalize don't canonicalize paths -f, --fake dry run; skip the mount(2) syscall -F, --fork fork off for each device (use with -a) -T, --fstab <path> alternative file to /etc/fstab -h, --help display this help text and exit -i, --internal-only don't call the mount.<type> helpers -l, --show-labels lists all mounts with LABELs -n, --no-mtab don't write to /etc/mtab -o, --options <list> comma-separated list of mount options -O, --test-opts <list> limit the set of filesystems (use with -a) -r, --read-only mount the filesystem read-only (same as -o ro) -t, --types <list> limit the set of filesystem types --source <src> explicitly specifies source (path, label, uuid) --target <target> explicitly specifies mountpoint -v, --verbose say what is being done -V, --version display version information and exit -w, --rw, --read-write mount the filesystem read-write (default)

-h, --help display this help and exit -V, --version output version information and exit

Source: -L, --label <label> synonym for LABEL=<label> -U, --uuid <uuid> synonym for UUID=<uuid> LABEL=<label> specifies device by filesystem label UUID=<uuid> specifies device by filesystem UUID PARTLABEL=<label> specifies device by partition label PARTUUID=<uuid> specifies device by partition UUID <device> specifies device by path <directory> mountpoint for bind mounts (see --bind/rbind) <file> regular file for loopdev setup

Operations: -B, --bind mount a subtree somewhere else (same as -o bind) -M, --move move a subtree to some other place -R, --rbind mount a subtree and all submounts somewhere else --make-shared mark a subtree as shared --make-slave mark a subtree as slave --make-private mark a subtree as private --make-unbindable mark a subtree as unbindable --make-rshared recursively mark a whole subtree as shared --make-rslave recursively mark a whole subtree as slave --make-rprivate recursively mark a whole subtree as private --make-runbindable recursively mark a whole subtree as unbindable

For more details see mount(8). df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory mount: failed to read mtab: No such file or directory cat: /proc/cmdline: No such file or directory userdel: user mail spool (/var/mail/user) not found groupdel: group 'user' does not exist Enter new UNIX password: Retype new UNIX password: passwd: password updated successfully Enter new UNIX password: Retype new UNIX password: passwd: password updated successfully /chrootscript: line 83: /home/plain/.trinity/share/config/: Is a directory /chrootscript: line 84: /home/plain/.trinity/share/config/: Is a directory sed: couldn't edit /home/plain/.trinity/share/config/: not a regular file /usr/sbin/grub-install: /usr/sbin/grub-install: cannot execute binary file /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?). ..............................................................................................

On Monday 24 November 2014 12:17:39 am kanenas@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

hope i am not off topic, no systemd comments here, just a couple of comments on exe-jessv-2014109,110 and 112. I tried to install them in a vbox vm on a wheezy-tde13.5.13.2 host, vbox ver. 4.3.18 r96516. In all instances grub failed to install and grub rescue would only allow the ls and set commands to be executed, all other commands i tried (cat, linux etc) produced the error "no such command". Trying "do not install grub" also failed with the message "grub missing". Any hints / ideas? thanks in advance, dimitris (newbie in list)

On Friday 14 November 2014 08:02:47 pm Robert Peters wrote:

...

On 10 November 2014 15:59, David Hare davidahare@gmail.com wrote:

...

A new (experimental) Exe GNU/Linux version exegnu-jessv-20141109.iso is available.

It is current TDE R14 on (mostly current and original) Debian Jessie.

All *systemd* packages are excluded using /etc/apt/preferences. Recompiled (without *systemd*) libpulse0 (mplayer dep) and dbus are used. Cups version is pinned to 1.7.1-5.

A few important packages may be missing or not working properly. There is only me to test it so far, any help appreciated. Updates will follow.

http://exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/

It is working fairly well for me now. Installed it with /home on the same partition as /, since the instructions imply that putting /home on a separate partition will cause that partition to be formatted, which I don't want to happen. A few glitches: the wizard runs each time on startup. Iceweasel won't start, claiming that an instance of it is already running. I installed Skype from deb http://download.skype.com/linux/repos/debian/ stable non-free; it segfaults when I try to run it. -R

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On 25/11/14 13:35, David Hare wrote:

On 25/11/14 01:30, kanenas@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

...

On my own followup, below is the installation log, indicating something major is seriously amiss with installing jessie-tde live isos on a virtualbox vm. Iam stopping trying to install jessie-tde on a vm for now, will try to install it on an old t61 laptop instead, but any help with the mess below would be appreciated. d.

Thanks for posting the log.. the error is here:

...

/usr/sbin/grub-install: /usr/sbin/grub-install: cannot execute binary file /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?).

David

An updated ExeGNU iso is now posted to http://exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/

The previous grub install error now appears to be fixed.

David

On 24/11/14 10:17, kanenas@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

hope i am not off topic, no systemd comments here, just a couple of comments on exe-jessv-2014109,110 and 112. I tried to install them in a vbox vm on a wheezy-tde13.5.13.2 host, vbox ver. 4.3.18 r96516. In all instances grub failed to install and grub rescue would only allow the ls and set commands to be executed, all other commands i tried (cat, linux etc) produced the error "no such command". Trying "do not install grub" also failed with the message "grub missing". Any hints / ideas? thanks in advance, dimitris (newbie in list)

You're right.. grub-install is failing in the installer's chroot. Most likely the chroot commands need updating for newer grub versions. The rest of the install seems OK.

In the meantime: You will need to boot the installation from another grub and fix it manually. There is a "Grub rescue menu" entry on the actual live image which should be able to detect and boot it.

Then in a root terminal (asssuming you want it on mbr):

grub-install /dev/sda update-grub

Will post back later when it's fixed and a new iso done. Thanks to those who tested this (yes, Jessie is still "Debian Testing!)

David