29 Nov
29 Nov
1:43 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 03:55:06PM -0600, Leslie Turriff wrote:
Is there a way to tell kmail to do this?
You shouldn't be bottom-posting any more than you should be top-posting.
It is extremely frustrating for your readers to have to scroll past five
or ten pages of quoted text to find a single line
"I agree!!!"
at the very bottom. And I'm not exaggerating, not even a little bit.
I've seen this happen, many times. If I remember correctly, the worst
case I bothered to count was *thirty-five pages*, from someone bottom-
posting on a mailing list digest.
Interleaved, in-line posting is best for extended discussions. Top-
posting (as hated in Linux/Unix circles as it is) is good for short
replies that don't lead to a long extended discussion. But bottom-
posting is awful: it has all the disadvantages of top-posting, with none
of the advantages.
I'm running KMail 1.9 from KDE 3.5 (gosh, that's over a decade old!),
and it defaults to quoting the replied message and putting the insertion
point | at the front of the first quoted line, something like this:
On Monday, John Doe wrote:
|> blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah
blah blah
For in-line posting, it is the writer's responsibility to move the
insertion point to where they want to insert a comment, trimming any
old commented text which no longer relevant. Kmail cannot do that for
you: it can't tell where you want to start typing.
If you go to the menu
Settings > Configure KMail...
then click the Composer icon, you may find something relevant.
--
Steve
11:58 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
Thank you for the lecture, but I was looking for useful information.
My personal preference is to inter-post, but I know that others have
different views. If a mailing list explicitly requests that their users top
or bottom post, according to you I should violate their standards?
On 2016-11-28 19:43:36 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 03:55:06PM -0600, Leslie
Turriff wrote:
Is there a way to tell kmail to do this?
You shouldn't be bottom-posting any more than you should be top-posting.
It is extremely frustrating for your readers to have to scroll past five
or ten pages of quoted text to find a single line
"I agree!!!"
at the very bottom. And I'm not exaggerating, not even a little bit.
I've seen this happen, many times. If I remember correctly, the worst
case I bothered to count was *thirty-five pages*, from someone bottom-
posting on a mailing list digest.
Interleaved, in-line posting is best for extended discussions. Top-
posting (as hated in Linux/Unix circles as it is) is good for short
replies that don't lead to a long extended discussion. But bottom-
posting is awful: it has all the disadvantages of top-posting, with none
of the advantages.
I'm running KMail 1.9 from KDE 3.5 (gosh, that's over a decade old!),
and it defaults to quoting the replied message and putting the insertion
point | at the front of the first quoted line, something like this:
On Monday, John Doe wrote:
|> blah blah blah blah
|>
blah blah blah
blah blah
For in-line posting, it is the writer's responsibility to move the
insertion point to where they want to insert a comment, trimming any
old commented text which no longer relevant. Kmail cannot do that for
you: it can't tell where you want to start typing.
If you go to the menu
Settings > Configure KMail...
then click the Composer icon, you may find something relevant.
30 Nov
30 Nov
4:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 05:58:05PM -0600, Leslie Turriff wrote:
Thank you for the lecture, but I was looking for
useful information.
My personal preference is to inter-post, but I know that others have
different views. If a mailing list explicitly requests that their users top
or bottom post, according to you I should violate their standards?
As you are doing now?
So, you prefer to interleave, you're on a mailing list that explicitly
says not to top-post, and yet here you are, top-posting. I don't think
you're in a good position to be snarky at my "lecture".
I never said that you should violate mailing list standards, that is you
putting words into my mouth.
I have *never* come across any mailing list that requests that people
post at the very bottom of the entire quoted email ("bottom posting"),
but I have come across a lot of people who wrongly describe interleaved/
in-line posting as "bottom posting" when what they actually mean is to
interleave responses. It's an easy mistake to make, since many replies
will quote only a single block of text, and reply after that, which
looks superficially like bottom-posting.
I'm sorry that my old version of Kmail and I were unable to provide you
with the useful information you desired.
--
Steve
6:20 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
On 2016-11-29 22:22:51 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
I don't think you're in a good position to be
snarky at my "lecture".
You
didn't even try to provide an answer to my question; you assumed
something about my situation and produced a lecture. If you had provided a
meaningful answer to my question (it was "Is there a way to tell kmail to do
this?") you probably would have gotten an answer like the one Stefan did.
People who make irrelevant replies to requests for information deserve such
responses, IMO, because they end up wasting the requestor's time as well as
their own. Geez.
I'm sorry that my old version of Kmail and I
were unable to provide you
with the useful information you desired.
10:22 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:20:44AM -0600, Leslie Turriff wrote:
You didn't even try to provide an answer to my
question;
I wrote:
If you go to the menu
Settings > Configure KMail...
then click the Composer icon, you may find something relevant.
Perhaps you missed it.
--
Steve
3 Dec
3 Dec
8:15 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Top-
posting (as hated in Linux/Unix circles as it is) is good for short
replies that don't lead to a long extended discussion. But bottom-
posting is awful: it has all the disadvantages of top-posting, with
none of the advantages.
The whole point of quoting is to provide a frame of reference for the
reply. The most effective way to do that is in a conversational quote
precedes reply. The primary issue is selective VS mass/pointless
quoting. In many cases, quoting a single relevant block of text from
the parent post is plenty. It's too bad email clients don't work like
some forums where you can highlight/quote/reply to a selected block of
text.
...I have no idea of the specifics, but there are some email clients
where that option is/can be automatically enabled when message text is
highlighted prior to hitting reply, e.g. Thunderbird, Claws, OSX/iOS
Mail. It was briefly a Gmail feature, then a Labs option, now?. I'd
love to hear of others, I couldn't find any webmail clients with this
option (surprising considering javascript/bookmarklets).
11:48 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
Dave Lers wrote:
...I have no idea of the specifics, but there are some
email clients
where that option is/can be automatically
enabled when message text is highlighted prior to hitting reply,
e.g. Thunderbird, Claws, OSX/iOS Mail.
Add KMail to that list. I tested Thunderbird, Claws and KMail; all
default to quoting highlighted text. Claws defaults to a bottom
cursor, KMail and Thunderbird to a top. All can be reconfigured.
29 Nov
29 Nov
3:25 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
Am Montag 28 November 2016 schrieb Leslie Turriff:
Is there a way to tell kmail to do this?
Leslie
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Hi Leslie,
in the configuration dialog you find, choose composer config, there you choose
register page "template" at the top of the window field, where you have some
options to configure or create templates for "new message", to reply, reply to
all, forward etc. In the template's content field you can put the
variable "%CURSOR" at any point you like and at which kmail will place the
cursor, when you open a new message, reply etc.
Stefan
11:53 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] How to make kmail bottom-post by default?
Thank you, Stefan.
On 2016-11-29 09:25:20 Stefan Krusche wrote:
Am Montag 28 November 2016 schrieb Leslie Turriff:
Is there a way to tell kmail to do this?
Leslie
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commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list
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Please remember not to top-post:
http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
Hi Leslie,
in the configuration dialog you find, choose composer config, there you
choose register page "template" at the top of the window field, where you
have some options to configure or create templates for "new message", to
reply, reply to all, forward etc. In the template's content field you can
put the
variable "%CURSOR" at any point you like and at which kmail will place the
cursor, when you open a new message, reply etc.
Stefan
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To unsubscribe, e-mail:
trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional
commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list
messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/
Please remember not to top-post:
http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting
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9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Dave Lers -
Leslie Turriff -
Stefan Krusche -
Steven D'Aprano