On Friday 18 November 2022 18:21:10 Michael wrote: I am a Luddite in general, on principle; but only because the new technology would seem to divide people from one another. But that is a whole other off-topic discussion. There's a great big pile of Google-free apps to be had on F-Droid and similar sites. I have installed *only* F-droid certified non-snooping and non-intrusive apps on my phone. And I do still get a notification about wanting me to update, and sometimes a recommendation to allow Google to know my location, and all that crap, but I just ignore them. Every couple months I am forced to do an update for my own good, whether I want one or not, but after I figure out how properly to root my phone, I will purge Google for ever and ever from my life. First, though, I will get some practice by rooting my old phone, which still works, but gets no telephone signal. Interesting, though, is the fact that I can still use it for internet, so I am also thinking about moving to Linphone (recommended by Leslie) or some other internet phone. I say the only reasonable response to Google's forced snooping, and other intrusions into our privacy, is just to reject them outright, or at least to pry oneself free, by small steps. Check out F-Droid! if you haven't done already. Bill P.S. By the way, I use my *second* old phone to set alarms, because nothing else works on it any more. This keeps my other phones from giving up data. P.P.S., This has not gone totally off-topic, because someday soon I know that I will be running TDE on my phone.

On Friday 18 November 2022 19:35:06 J Leslie Turriff wrote: ... mentioned in a decidely neutral manner by Leslie? Bill

On Friday 18 November 2022 20:10:48 Michael wrote: Linphone? yup, that's what I like, that I can use it on both.

On Saturday 19 November 2022 05:24:06 E. Liddell wrote: Yeah, I got all excited when I first heard about them, but as I followed their progress over a few years, enthusiasm has waned. I do still hope that they get it together, but it's hard for those smaller development projects to compete with the big dogs. Google has very deep pockets. Better now, I think, to get a phone that is already reliable, root that device, install a GNU/Linux free/libre OS, and work with that until something better comes along. Whenever that happens, I am ready to jump on it, but I won't hold my breath waiting for a miracle. Meanwhile, I can get a FREE phone with a new account (& I am old enough to qualify for one of those discounted plans, so it only costs me $10 US a month); that's cheaper, and I don't worry so much about bricking it. My new phone, by the way, does have a "desktop mode"; I haven't explored whatever that is, but I am guessing that where TDE will find a home on my phone. Bill

On Saturday 19 November 2022 12:03:46 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Who you calling "young"? I will be 65 in a few months, though I still feel about age 17 or so; however, I find that I now have a hard time determining the ages of people between about 15-50 years, as they all look like children to me. I keep an old ZTE Blackberry-type phone that I still use for some tasks, such as alarms. If I had my druthers, I'd stick with a landline and no snooper device at all, but it is obvious that people are being herded into using smartphones, and there is no escape for some things. (Some jobs require a smartphone, and many services here in the US are available only for smartphone users.) Instead of pleading ignorance of the new technology (and then to fend off well-meaning do-gooders, or get me branded as a heretic by the new tech-loving Inquisition, I believe that it's better to know enough about the new stuff coming out, just so I can avoid the unwanted side-effects. Bill

William Morder via tde-users wrote: Please post if you get some meaningful results. I moved from Nokia N9 (MeeGo project - pure linux with debian based packaging) to the spin of SailFish OS by Jolla (is continuation of the MeeGo but with RPM based packaging) I am using it as my main phone with the android emulator (AlienDalvik) for some Android apps. The problem with TDE is that it was not developed for touchscreen , so without a key board and mouse, I don't think it will work. There are also tons of other details where many vendors failed on. One of my major use cases I manage to handle is the sync of PIM between phone and TDE via bluetooth. The phone is Sony Xperia X and since last year Sony Xperia 10 II and works pretty well (especially the later with Android 10 based emulator) However the base system is the android kernel. I did not have time to read about Pine Phone or Free Phone, but I am curios if there are any new developments. BR

Thierry de Coulon wrote: I read many months ago about the Pine Phone and was not convinced in anyway that it is useful either. Let me know what is your experience and share some use cases. For example can you sync data, how the usual features work, calendar, alarms, sms, e-mail clients etc. How does it behave in a car - can you connect and use the phone (HFP)? can you encrypt the filesystem? which ECO systems are available? Can you use clients such as Signal, WhatsApp, Firefox? thank you

Thierry de Coulon wrote: well, I can not carry my PC in the pocket - so except phone and sms, I need reminders (calendar) and contacts, which I need to sync (and I refuse to use cloud services for that) The other thing is that I have issue with business contacts, mails and scheduled meetings, so I need some kind of outlook on the phone as well. These are my use cases and I basically driven from the need to do business. I contradict, because Sailfish (the former MeeGo) was developed exactly for smart phones. Well this is where former Nokia and later Jolla/Sailfish failed and this is how Alien Dalvik got adopted (license cost 50€ and is permanent). So the point is that the developer expects some kind of monetization and if the community is not big enough, there is no motivation to write apps Yes, HFP is hands free profile. The other one that you may use is HSP (head set profile). HFP is used mostly in cars as it offers some additional functions. the eco system is the apps and the way you manage them (install, access to data on the phone, monetization, user base etc.) Yes it has Linux version, but it is closed/pre-compiled for specific distributions. WhatsApp is BS, but they use it here and I need it for contacting the school etc. Oh, good that you can be so conservative, I am trying too, but I already described the use cases that are driven by the circumstances. The stupid thing is that is expected if you want to be part of the company/social life :/ BR

E. Liddell wrote: Well, I can sing a song about it. I have written a client to oFono (still very alpha - see attached) to utilize HFP over BT, but it crashes now and then after closing a phone call. As a result kmix hits 100% CPU (cause pulseaudio dies beneath). It took me few months to rule out it is not the code, but something between oFono, pulseaudio and bluetooth. I have only few hours now and then to do some development.

On Saturday 19 November 2022 14:00:54 deloptes wrote: I've been thinking of trying it out with an external keyboard and mouse, if I can get one to work on this new phone. I did have another smartphone for a job a few years ago, and I managed to connect it to external keyboard, mouse, hard drives & flash drives, etc. There are a couple of gadgets I have, which ought to allow me to connect my phone to anything via USB. But so far I haven't had the ambition or enough free time and relative seclusion, so that I won't be constantly interrupted in the middle of some complicated or delicate operation. Bill

On Saturday 19 November 2022 16:20:30 deloptes wrote: For the present, I think that if we get some practice at how properly to root our smartphones without bricking them (such as I want to do with my older smartphone), and manage to get a free/libre OS installed, that will provide a place to experiment with putting TDE on a smartphone desktop. So that will be my first goal, to root my older phone. If anybody else wants to join in the experiment, then we can pool our knowledge. Once we have prepared the ground, so to speak, then maybe we can talk realistically about creating a version of TDE for phones. On my older phone, if I recall correctly, it was possible to install debian packages (or at least there were some modified Debian programs available, made into smartphone apps?); I never did much with it, but I remember one app in particular that was called L'il Debbie (after the name of a brand of junk food, cookies and cupcakes, etc., also playing on Debian), but I could not determine if it actually *did* anything. In any case, the command-line in Android works almost the same as Debian, but again, I haven't explored much. Well anyway ... if anybody out there wants to collaborate on rooting smartphones and installing a Google-free OS, the help would be appreciated. I've done some reading and research, but (I keep reminding people) I am not a techie or geek. Bill

On Sunday 20 November 2022 04:23:30 deloptes wrote: You are not alone. Your scepticism is shared by the Present Author. ;-) My ambition is not to create a working, fully-functional smartphone with a TDE desktop. I want only to see if it is possible to get it installed in such an environment. I realize that there is a different file system, the problem with drivers, etc., etc. Long ago (20 years?), I knew somebody who actually installed Linux on a phone. I don't know how, don't know if it actually worked. I didn't hear much more about it, so I assume that it wasn't really functional, but he actually got Linux to run on a phone, and this was one of those really old cheap phones; not one of our new smartphones. If I get a chance to talk to him about that (probably not soon), then I will find out more about how and so on. At the time, it seemed like building a ship in a bottle: interesting, but not really practical. Now it suddenly seems like a good idea. As I said, I have a brand-new, working phone, but I don't intend to do anything to mess up that device (yet), as I do actually use it for maybe 5-10 calls a month. However, I also have an older smartphone, which does not receive a phone signal any longer, but which still can connect to Internet. This is the device that I intend to start on. Once I get it rooted - if I don't brick it - I intend to install Replicant, Sailfish, or whatever is closest to GNU/Linux free/libre (meaning, I won't be restricted by proprietary barriers), and there, if I have enough capacity, I will try to install a TDE desktop, just to see if it is possible. Other phones (as I've heard here and elsewhere) use some modified KDE desktop, if they have a proper desktop at all, so perhaps I am not yet entirely out of my mind. (Some may suppose otherwise.) After I get practice at rooting my older smartphone, and installing a free/libre OS, then I will try it out on my new phone, my primary phone. At present, I don't intend to experiment with TDE on my new phone, but in another year or two it will become my older phone, and then anything goes. As for the rooting, I've been doing my research, and I hope that over the winter months, that will be my project, to root my older phone, and if all goes well, to get my new phone rooted, Google-free, running a free/libre OS, and to be functional. I looked round for some kind of group that is into rooting Android phones, but they don't seem to exist, or maybe they keep to themselves. I suppose that this would be like building a pirate ship in a bottle. Bill

On Sunday 20 November 2022 11:28:56 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: snip Well, as somebody else said earlier in this thread, these smartphones are becoming necessary for almost everything. True, I am getting old enough that I can avoid being forced to change my way of life, but there is also a kind of social stigma against those who are not fervent believers in the wholesome goodness of smartphones; the Apple-users are the worst, as they are the most trusting, because of course they cannot actually tinker with their devices at all. (I think jailbreaking iPhones has almost disappeared, or I don't hear about it any more.) And while I would prefer to stick with a landline, and my only computer is a desktop (with maybe a laptop for travel), I find that I do not live in such a world, that at every turn I am pressured to use my smartphone to verify, or pay, or to do practically anything. The rule of smartphones has indirectly interfered with my travel plans, with my work, my finances, and I am trying to extricate myself from this trap. Since I cannot, at present, get rid of my smartphone completely, then the next best thing is to try to get control over it. Whenever I can live elsewhere, then I hope to get far enough away from dense urban areas that I don't need a smartphone, and a landline and/or dumbphone will do. Yes, there is still such a place in this world, where large areas have no cellular coverage at all. While they have discovered the internet, everybody seems blissfully unconcerned about smartphones, because they can't get a signal, anyway. Bill

On Sunday 20 November 2022 12:20:36 Thierry de Coulon wrote: I am thinking about a solar oven. But now I hear that Jackery (among others) has a 2600W power bank (whatever is the proper term?), with solar panels to match, etc., etc. This is a portable solar generator setup, and it is almost enough to run a whole house. So I am thinking to keep anything that can be powered by my solar setup. I do send SMS message on my phone, because I have contacts who are too lazy or not smart enough or just unwilling to use XMPP/Jabber. However, except for those few laggards, I try to stick to messaging only by Jabber, which I use over Tor. This is another perk of getting older. I can only say that I am glad that I missed all that, because I know that I would be even more unemployable in that glorious future that I can already see here and now. Bill

On Monday 21 November 2022 00:49:26 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Yeah, I do know about that area, where radio signals are limited, and all wireless devices are banned, so that they don't interfere with their scientifc research and military spookery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Quiet_Zone That's Gene's neck of the woods. I don't know much about it myself, but I intend to check out the area for livability. Myself, I still need to be close enough to a university with a proper research library, so I need to do some reconnaissance on the ground to determine where will fit my needs. (I am a very selective Luddite.) But it may not need to be WV, as there are other places. Not too far northeast of there is the area where I grew up, and my home town is only a 30 minute drive from Penn State, and they have seven research libraries, and I have relatives all over that area, etc. But also, that is Amish country, and because large areas are taken up with their communities, there isn't much need for cellular service. Only a short distance outside any city or large town, and nobody can get a signal. Unless everybody starts using satellite phones, or somehow hooks up with Elon Musk's Starlink, I don't foresee things changing soon. Well, anyway, I still have a few things to finish up here, before I can think about moving. And recent events around the world (war and its effects, for example) have made me postpone my plans. Bill

gene heskett wrote: this is taking pandemic dimensions all over the globe and is likely to accelerate in the future (especially in the west). Education is broken from the kinder garden to the university. We were laughing few years ago that the movie "Idiocracy" is not a fiction but is the now, however we did not expected to have the future so fast arriving to reality. It is hopeless!

William Morder via tde-users wrote: well, in Europe we have evidence that George Soros is involved in many of these processes with his Open Society Foundation, for whatever reason - they are destroying education and countries as whole, but it is getting very political and conspirative into some extent. But there is evidence - ask the Hungarians if you don't want to ask the Russians. The other countries are simply subordinate to his foundation. It is everywhere the same scheme - they infected the education system (the universities and the teachers) also the media and the politicians ... so mostly there is no chance to resist. Why they are doing it - I don't know. But in 10-15 years Europe will be finished. Even today there is not enough educated people to build something. I don't know how it is in the US ... but well, I can imagine.

deloptes scripsit: (...) I guess the strategy is that in a world where most are uneducated, the few who are are the masters. Look at the way the church could rule the (western) world in the Middle Ages when even kings could barely read and write.

On 11/22/22 05:52, deloptes wrote: IDK either deloptes. Soros, Gates and Fauci are the 3 most dangerous people on this ball of rock and water, that single pixel, a pale blue dot in a voyager image from 30 some years ago. What I do know is that there are not enough of us JOAT's to keep civilization running another 100 years. I'm close to being in that category, and from what you've written over the last couple decades, you are also in that group. We are a library others can consult as long as we live. And I find it somewhat discouraging that there is not some youngster, following us around 24/7 trying to absorb and understand what I/we do on a daily basis. I'm now 88, have a chest full of hardware and electronics, so my remaining time is obviously limited. So this library has a limited time left to be open. Question? How many others on this list feel like they could walk into a test session to be a Certified Electronics Technician, and pass it? Without "cracking" a book? I did that in 1972, and passed it, the only one who passed it after that professor had been teaching a class on the subject for the 5 years previous. I was the first to pass the final exam, and all I did was walk in the door with a $20 bill and that seasons flu to pay for his time to administer the test. I was very discouraged 35 years ago, when I got stuck showing a 2 buss loads of students from a local high school around WDTV-5. Showing them around and telling them how tv actually worked for most of a morning, finished up by walking each of them past a studio camera so they could see how they looked on tv, and said as I was winding up, that someday I would retire, and I hoped that by then one of you would be nipping at my heels, wanting my job. The most vocal of the group, when they all got thru laughing, asked who in hell would want such a job? I had just spent nearly 3 hours trying to glamorize it as a well paying endeavor, because I was well paid, making about 15k a year more at a market 162 tv station than the rest of that market group were paying. Only one piece of gear was ever sent out to be repaired, and that was because the maker didn't want to supply a service manual. All the rest of the stuff news could break, I restored to operation, 90% of the time by myself. Now I'm just another fading book, still designing and making things, in steel with cnc machines I built, wood, or plastic on a 3d printer and rebuilding a couple of them to be lots faster. I'm having fun, although its lonesome fun as my wife has passed already, and keeping busy keeps me out of the bars. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

On Tuesday 22 November 2022 12:02:41 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote: Naw, we're good. We used the [offtopic] tag and (AFAIK) nobody was impolite. I like Idiocracy, but in hindsight it was too mild. Here’ a book I recently read that somewhat (obliquely) explains some of the Gates/Soros/Fauci crap. Metabolical: The Lure and the Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition, and Modern Medicine by RH Lustig, https://robertlustig.com/metabolical/ Also see: The Real Anthony Fauci The Movie, https://therealanthonyfaucimovie.com/ (edit: Ah!, it based on the book: The Real Anthony Fauci by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.) I haven’t watched it (probably never will), but I’ve heard it basically shows how Fauci and Hitler used the same propaganda mechanisms to create lock-step obedience in their respective populations. Again, I could have misinterpreted that, but the similarities are just too eerie. Oh, and my personal opinion, ‘they’ don’t care if civilization stagnates. Like said earlier about the Middle Ages, ~1,000 years of stagnation, but the ‘elites’ keep their rule the whole time by keeping everyone uneducated. My 2 cents, and I’m out. Best All, Michael

Michael wrote: Well if you substract the down and up part of the wave you are left with about 500y which somehow corresponds to the fact that it was colder in Europe and elsewhere and there was not enough food. So it could be the elites had something in mind and used the circumstances to their advantage, but I tend to admit that the food factor can not be let out of the equation. In fact they turned the heresy called Christianity into their advantage by the genius of Constantin the Great so that they can consolidate the power in the Roman Empire and thus save the Empire. It is remarkable to see the layer of paganism under the layer of Christianity. I have full respect for this. Also full respect to the Medici who gave us Michelangelo, Leonardo and the Renaissance. The conclusion we can draw is that we need enlightened monarchs, who bring stability. I somehow do not see these in the west - it is pure irony, but sadly true. Perhaps we evidence the shift of the pendulum to the east unless we bring up some new Constantin the Great or preferably Medici.

On Monday 21 November 2022 02:24:12 deloptes wrote: So Linphone (for example) is maybe where I ought to move in the future for my phone. I already have it installed on both smartphones and my laptop, but none of my contacts use it. There is a way to use VOIP/SIP phones not just to call other users of Linphone, but like an actual phone, to call regular numbers. But one must get a monthly service, which is inexpensive, and of course internet is necessary for them to work. But if I can get internet wherever I am going, then this will work. I am curious how this change will happen. As things stand now, VOIP/SIP only works with internet. What about the old folks who still have their landline, haven't figured out how to work a cell phone, and are afraid to go online? Bill

On Sunday 20 November 2022 20.28:56 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: Waow! That brings back memory! I think I still have one of these somewhere. Now, would the battery still work? Thierry