On Sunday 29 March 2015 17:44:49 Lisi Reisz wrote: That is not clear. :-( It installed 0, updated 0 and removed 0. In other words, it agreed that tde-trinity ws already installed, and didn't repair anything. I just don't see how I can be getting LXDE when LXDE is not installed anymore. Lisi

On Sunday 29 March 2015 19:21:06 Gerhard Zintel wrote: Given the gap in distance between the computer on which I am doing it and this one, either. But I think typo, since I copied what Nik said down quite carefully, and then copied it onto the screen. Lisi

On Sunday 29 March 2015 22:44:07 Robert Peters wrote: Thanks, Robert. Yes, I had it working beautifully until I took it into my head to update and forgot to reconfigure tdm before rebooting. :-( I needn't tell you what I have been calling myself! Lisi

On Sunday 29 March 2015 19:23:54 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: No. I get an error message that xsession is unable to launch and it is launching the default. I have to click on OK and I end up with LXDE, which I have uninstalled and which <aptitude show> says is not installed. :-/ If you don't believe me, I don't blame you. Have just tried that. I managed to get some of the error message. Please allow for the fact that I could barely see what I was copying, not helped by the sides of the television cutting off the edges of the display. And that I am a lousy typist. There are likely to be errors. That is why I prefer copy and paste. ;-) The left-hand edge is missing in what follows: ------------------------------------------------------ up tdm-trinity 94:14.0.1~pre21-0debian8.0.0.2~a)... top-daemon:pid value must be a number greater than 0 start-stop-daemon --help for more information ---------------------------------------- I then tried # dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity I got the following error message, left hand edge missing again: ------------------------------------------ 064319]systemd-default-display-manager-generator[1316]:/lib/systemd/system/tdm.service is not a systemd unit. we disable the systemd enabled display manager top-daemon:pid value must be a number greater than 0 start-stop-daemon --help for more information ----------------------------------------------------------- The whole thing is crackers. Since I could reinstall in a couple of hours, from scratch to the point of having configured everything including downloading large mice, is it silly to waste any more of your - or my - time? a) This time, I shall uninstall LXDE as soon as I have TDE up and running. Ditto I shall uninstall lightdm as soon as I have tdm. I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place. b) I shall update more often so that I do not have 313 upgrades to cause problems! Though I don't think that it was the number of upgrades that was the problem initially. I forgot to reconfigure the dm before I rebooted. Thank you very much for all your help Nik. Lisi

On 30 March 2015 at 08:38, Felix Miata &lt;mrmazda(a)earthlink.net&gt; wrote: <snip> I like the idea of installing that way. Can you point me to details on how to do it? - Robert

On 30 March 2015 at 18:38, Felix Miata &lt;mrmazda(a)earthlink.net&gt; wrote: <snip> Thanks, there's a lot to go on and I will keep it for reference. Gentoo comes to mind. One of these days (years) I'll have to get back into it. - Robert

Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 09:53 (UTC+0100): That fact was clear, yet deficient. What exactly makes you need a configurable terminal emulator? If you can't see well enough due to lack of adequate size, is it that you don't know how to acquire adequate size? Text on a TV screen be made seriouslly big. Absolutely. The question is what's required for you, bigger text, bigger screen, bigger both? 1024x768 is a low res mode supported on some pretty big screens. Text 14pt & up is readily doable. Lower resolution still means bigger yet text. 80x25 on a TV screen can produce seriously large text. What is it that the TE does that helps? What size does text need to be for you to be able to work with it? 12pt? 16pt? 24pt? larger yet? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 11:18 (UTC+0100): I just booted the Ubuntu aka Debian Installer with the following added to the cmdline splash=0 vga=normal video=640x480 The resulting vtty text is the same size as when booting DOS, 80 columns by 25 rows. On a 41.0 cm x 26.0 cm (19" diagonal) screen that results in text somewhere in the vicinity of 24pt. This to me sounds like it would be usable for you. If not, a bigger screen like 69.8 cm x 39.3 cm (31.5" diagonal) ought to get somewhere around 32pt-36pt. If those produce too big you could try splash=0 vga=785 video=800x600 which would shrink text size down by around 1/3, giving about 100 columns wide by 37 rows tall. I have a hard time imagining a terminal emulator doing better than either of these two simple to implement configurations. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 10:43 (UTC-0400): Until now this was never clear to me. It's been a while since I've done a Debian installation, so don't know if there's any significant difference between its "Jessie" installer and older or Vivid's, or if there is more than one Debian installer to choose from. Understood. Understood. So now the question is what's different between using Jessie and the post-installation ttys? Is Jessie a GUI-mode installer, or still a text-based one *buntu's mini.iso shares? It sounds like Jessie is radically different from any Debian installer I've ever seen. The post-Etch, post-installation ttys for both Debian and Ubuntu for me were for years a significant reason why I've rarely used either. But apparently something's changed not so long ago, probably as a result of post-KMS, post-sysvinit evolution of console-setup and/or font handling. Trusty 14.04, on the machine I just installed Vivid on, by default still uses spindly, ugly fonts on the ttys, along with low contrast colors, in spite of use of video display options on cmdline that since last century have worked nicely in all non-Debians I've ever used. In Vivid that's no longer the case. Whether this was new in Utopic or in Vivid is intentional rather than a bug I can't say. Absent display of /etc/issue on a tty just above the login prompt, I wouldn't know I'd just booted Vivid instead of openSUSE, Fedora or Mageia. Until now, it wasn't clear to me your meaning of the term "terminal emulator". AFAIK, most KDE and TDE users refer to what you call a terminal emulator by the proper name of their DE's native incarnation of a terminal, Konsole, or one of the alternatives' proper names, such as Xterm. "About" in Konsole 1.6.6 in Trinity R14.0.0 reports "X terminal for use with TDE", not terminal emulator. In the R14 menu Konsole is called a terminal program, not a terminal emulator. So, I wasn't aware you were even in X, as opposed to using some emulation application on an entirely different computer. I fully agree Konsole affords a lot better quality than traditional Debian vttys provide by default. I explain these very things in an X context to people quite often, and more often to web stylists in A11Y/U7Y discussion. Pixels are a scourge on PC users that dates back over two decades. When Windows 95 came out, the best commonly available displays were '17"' CRTs that measured 16" diagonally, offering a whopping ugly 1024x768 @80 DPI. Improving to 96 DPI or more took a *lot* more money to get either 1280x1024 (a 5:4 ratio squished into a 4:3 physical area using non-square pixels) and/or larger size, or using a smaller display causing sufferance of everything being tiny. When I explain pixels and DPI to people I typically cite previous explanations, such as these oldies: http://style.cleverchimp.com/font_size/points/font_wars.GIF http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fontblog/archive/2005/11/08/490490.aspx http://tidbits.com/article/5284 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12474 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16927 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26608 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41115 On a somewhat related note Lisi, a very few significant web sites (besides http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ ) seem to have gotten that user settings ought to be respected and embraced. I'm interested if you have any opinion on some I've noticed: http://www.cnn.com/ http://www.gallupstrengthscenter.com/ http://www.pa.gov/ http://www.zeldman.com/ http://7online.com/ -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/