Help! I got myself in a mess after updating. The usual, reverting to lightdm and LXDE. Which mess I made worse. Well, I couldn't really see what I was doing. So I purged lightdm. No better. So I purged LXDE. No better. So I purged then installed TDE.
aptitude purge tde-trinity aptitude install tde-trinity (The second as per https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Debian_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Instr... )
Nothing much happened. Only one package was touched.
<aptitude show> says that **LXDE is not installed** and that TDE is installed. It says that lightdm is not installed. It says that tdm-trinity is installed.
But when I boot up it is LXDE that launches, bypassing any dm. Yes, I know. That sounds totally mad. But I have repeatedly checked. I am flummoxed.
Reporting real error messages is terribly difficult because I haven't got LXDE set up so that I can see it well, and the virtual terminals are impossible.
Wiping and reinstalling would be the easiest thing to do, and also the quickest. But it would also be defeatist. Has anyone any other ideas?
Thanks, Lisi
Am Sonntag, 29. März 2015 schrieb Lisi Reisz:
Help! I got myself in a mess after updating. The usual, reverting to lightdm and LXDE. Which mess I made worse. Well, I couldn't really see what I was doing. So I purged lightdm. No better. So I purged LXDE. No better. So I purged then installed TDE.
aptitude purge tde-trinity aptitude install tde-trinity (The second as per https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Debian_Trinity_Repository_Installation_Instr... )
Nothing much happened. Only one package was touched.
<aptitude show> says that **LXDE is not installed** and that TDE is installed. It says that lightdm is not installed. It says that tdm-trinity is installed.
But when I boot up it is LXDE that launches, bypassing any dm. Yes, I know. That sounds totally mad. But I have repeatedly checked. I am flummoxed.
Reporting real error messages is terribly difficult because I haven't got LXDE set up so that I can see it well, and the virtual terminals are impossible.
Wiping and reinstalling would be the easiest thing to do, and also the quickest. But it would also be defeatist. Has anyone any other ideas?
Thanks, Lisi
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Hi Lisi!
Assuming yout TDE-Installation is (almost) sane, please do from the commandline (not terminal in X11):
# aptitude install tdm-trinity # dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity # reboot
Nik
On Sunday 29 March 2015 14:46:51 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Lisi!
Assuming yout TDE-Installation is (almost) sane, please do from the commandline (not terminal in X11):
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
It installed and removed 0 packages!!
# dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity
Complained about a systemd stop daemon. Said, I think, that there was a systemd dm running which I had to stop. Complained, I think, about a lack of a tdm systemd service. Told me, I think, to do: (in order to run stop-daemon?)
start-stop-daemon --help
The result was illegible to me, and therefore incomprehensible.
I am really struggling here. I have lost all my nice enlarged fonts!
# reboot
Thanks, Nik.
Can anyone meake any sense of what I did manage to see and remember?
Lisi
On Sunday 29 March 2015 17:44:49 Lisi Reisz wrote:
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
It installed and removed 0 packages!!
That is not clear. :-( It installed 0, updated 0 and removed 0. In other words, it agreed that tde-trinity ws already installed, and didn't repair anything.
I just don't see how I can be getting LXDE when LXDE is not installed anymore.
Lisi
On Sunday 29 March 2015, Lisi Reisz wrote:
On Sunday 29 March 2015 17:44:49 Lisi Reisz wrote:
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
in contrary to
In other words, it agreed that tde-trinity ws already installed,
typo or mistake? Did you try to install
$ aptitude install tdm-trinity
or
$ aptitude install tde-trinity?
The latter was asked for. Gerhard
On Sunday 29 March 2015 19:21:06 Gerhard Zintel wrote:
On Sunday 29 March 2015, Lisi Reisz wrote:
On Sunday 29 March 2015 17:44:49 Lisi Reisz wrote:
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
in contrary to
In other words, it agreed that tde-trinity ws already installed,
typo or mistake?
Given the gap in distance between the computer on which I am doing it and this one, either. But I think typo, since I copied what Nik said down quite carefully, and then copied it onto the screen.
Lisi
Did you try to install
$ aptitude install tdm-trinity
or
$ aptitude install tde-trinity?
The latter was asked for. Gerhard
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On 30 March 2015 at 07:13, Lisi Reisz lisi.reisz@gmail.com wrote: <snip>
FWIW, I did a fresh install of Mint/Mate, updated, then added TDM from Slavek's repos. A little later, after a couple of reboots, the boot option to use TDE appeared, which I chose. Since then, TDE has been working nicely, including wifi connection and sound. (So far haven't uninstalled anything from Mint - have to be really careful to not break anything) - Robert
On Sunday 29 March 2015 22:44:07 Robert Peters wrote:
On 30 March 2015 at 07:13, Lisi Reisz lisi.reisz@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>
FWIW, I did a fresh install of Mint/Mate, updated, then added TDM from Slavek's repos. A little later, after a couple of reboots, the boot option to use TDE appeared, which I chose. Since then, TDE has been working nicely, including wifi connection and sound. (So far haven't uninstalled anything from Mint - have to be really careful to not break anything)
- Robert
Thanks, Robert. Yes, I had it working beautifully until I took it into my head to update and forgot to reconfigure tdm before rebooting. :-(
I needn't tell you what I have been calling myself!
Lisi
Am Sonntag, 29. März 2015 schrieb Lisi Reisz:
On Sunday 29 March 2015 14:46:51 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Lisi!
Assuming yout TDE-Installation is (almost) sane, please do from the commandline (not terminal in X11):
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
It installed and removed 0 packages!!
# dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity
Complained about a systemd stop daemon. Said, I think, that there was a systemd dm running which I had to stop. Complained, I think, about a lack of a tdm systemd service. Told me, I think, to do: (in order to run stop-daemon?)
start-stop-daemon --help
The result was illegible to me, and therefore incomprehensible.
I am really struggling here. I have lost all my nice enlarged fonts!
# reboot
Thanks, Nik.
Can anyone meake any sense of what I did manage to see and remember?
Lisi
Hi Lisi!
Oooops... systemd madness :-)
Just to make sure I understand right: - after the reboot: is tdm-trinity running or is it any other display manager (lightdm, gdm ..)? - you log in using tde-trinity and end up with LXDE instead of TDE?
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
To reinstall tdm-trinity you could try: # aptitude reinstall tdm-trinity
Nik
On Sunday 29 March 2015 19:23:54 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Sonntag, 29. März 2015 schrieb Lisi Reisz:
On Sunday 29 March 2015 14:46:51 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Lisi!
Assuming yout TDE-Installation is (almost) sane, please do from the commandline (not terminal in X11):
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
It installed and removed 0 packages!!
# dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity
Complained about a systemd stop daemon. Said, I think, that there was a systemd dm running which I had to stop. Complained, I think, about a lack of a tdm systemd service. Told me, I think, to do: (in order to run stop-daemon?)
start-stop-daemon --help
The result was illegible to me, and therefore incomprehensible.
I am really struggling here. I have lost all my nice enlarged fonts!
# reboot
Thanks, Nik.
Can anyone meake any sense of what I did manage to see and remember?
Lisi
Hi Lisi!
Oooops... systemd madness :-)
Just to make sure I understand right:
- after the reboot: is tdm-trinity running or is it any other display
manager (lightdm, gdm ..)? - you log in using tde-trinity and end up with LXDE instead of TDE?
No. I get an error message that xsession is unable to launch and it is launching the default. I have to click on OK and I end up with LXDE, which I have uninstalled and which <aptitude show> says is not installed. :-/ If you don't believe me, I don't blame you.
# aptitude install tdm-trinity
To reinstall tdm-trinity you could try: # aptitude reinstall tdm-trinity
Have just tried that. I managed to get some of the error message. Please allow for the fact that I could barely see what I was copying, not helped by the sides of the television cutting off the edges of the display. And that I am a lousy typist. There are likely to be errors. That is why I prefer copy and paste. ;-)
The left-hand edge is missing in what follows: ------------------------------------------------------ up tdm-trinity 94:14.0.1~pre21-0debian8.0.0.2~a)... top-daemon:pid value must be a number greater than 0 start-stop-daemon --help for more information
---------------------------------------- I then tried # dpkg-reconfigure tdm-trinity
I got the following error message, left hand edge missing again: ------------------------------------------
064319]systemd-default-display-manager-generator[1316]:/lib/systemd/system/tdm.service is not a systemd unit. we disable the systemd enabled display manager top-daemon:pid value must be a number greater than 0 start-stop-daemon --help for more information -----------------------------------------------------------
The whole thing is crackers. Since I could reinstall in a couple of hours, from scratch to the point of having configured everything including downloading large mice, is it silly to waste any more of your - or my - time?
a) This time, I shall uninstall LXDE as soon as I have TDE up and running. Ditto I shall uninstall lightdm as soon as I have tdm. I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place.
b) I shall update more often so that I do not have 313 upgrades to cause problems! Though I don't think that it was the number of upgrades that was the problem initially. I forgot to reconfigure the dm before I rebooted.
Thank you very much for all your help Nik.
Lisi
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-29 22:11 (UTC+0100):
a) This time, I shall uninstall LXDE as soon as I have TDE up and running. Ditto I shall uninstall lightdm as soon as I have tdm. I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place.
What stops you from not installing LXDE in the first place? Are you unable to function on tty[1-6] in 80x25 mode (with no DE installed)? All my installs are HTTP minimal from netboot[1], after which I apt-get update and apt-get install mc', create /etc/apt/99local containing
APT::Install-Recommends "0"; APT::Install-Suggests "0";,
adjust sources if necessary or desired, then apt-get or aptitude install whatever DM/DE I want or need. The installation result is lean, upgrades quicker, and doesn't have a menu loaded with apps I've never used or wanted.
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
On 30 March 2015 at 08:38, Felix Miata mrmazda@earthlink.net wrote: <snip>
function on tty[1-6] in 80x25 mode (with no DE installed)? All my installs are HTTP minimal from netboot[1], after which I apt-get update and apt-get install mc', create /etc/apt/99local containing
APT::Install-Recommends "0"; APT::Install-Suggests "0";,adjust sources if necessary or desired, then apt-get or aptitude install whatever DM/DE I want or need. The installation result is lean, upgrades quicker, and doesn't have a menu loaded with apps I've never used or wanted.
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
I like the idea of installing that way. Can you point me to details on how to do it? - Robert
Robert Peters composed on 2015-03-30 14:11 (UTC+1000):
Felix Miata wrote:
function on tty[1-6] in 80x25 mode (with no DE installed)? All my installs are HTTP minimal from netboot[1], after which I apt-get update and apt-get install mc', create /etc/apt/99local containing
APT::Install-Recommends "0"; APT::Install-Suggests "0";,
adjust sources if necessary or desired, then apt-get or aptitude install whatever DM/DE I want or need. The installation result is lean, upgrades quicker, and doesn't have a menu loaded with apps I've never used or wanted.
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
I like the idea of installing that way. Can you point me to details on how to do it?
Not really. "Details" depend on distro, and whether using a boot.iso[1], or starting directly from an already installed bootloader. "Included on installation cmdline" text above was copied and pasted from a working Grub Legacy stanza (out of menu.lst), but could be typed as cmdline appendage if booting from burned media. My primary distro is openSUSE, but all my installations are on multiboot systems. Various instructions can be found e.g. on:
http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Network_installation http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/171 https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Boot.iso_install
[1] such as mini.iso from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/vivid/main/installer-amd64/current/im...
On 30 March 2015 at 18:38, Felix Miata mrmazda@earthlink.net wrote: <snip>
Thanks, there's a lot to go on and I will keep it for reference. Gentoo comes to mind. One of these days (years) I'll have to get back into it. - Robert
On Sunday 29 March 2015 23:38:48 Felix Miata wrote:
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-29 22:11 (UTC+0100):
a) This time, I shall uninstall LXDE as soon as I have TDE up and running. Ditto I shall uninstall lightdm as soon as I have tdm. I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place.
What stops you from not installing LXDE in the first place?
<quote from above> I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place. </quote>
Are you unable to function on tty[1-6] in 80x25 mode (with no DE installed)?
On this television, I can't really see well enough to trouble shoot without a DE until I have managed to edit the console display, let alone edit my sources list and install anything. So no, I am not able to function on tty[1-6] with no DE installed.
All my installs are HTTP minimal from netboot[1], after which I apt-get update and apt-get install mc', create /etc/apt/99local containing
APT::Install-Recommends "0"; APT::Install-Suggests "0";,
adjust sources if necessary or desired, then apt-get or aptitude install whatever DM/DE I want or need. The installation result is lean, upgrades quicker, and doesn't have a menu loaded with apps I've never used or wanted.
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
The required resolution depends surely on the monitor one is using?
If I could see well enough to do so on the machine in question, attached to my TV, I would do so. But I can't. So I do an install with LXDE (I can see the installer if I go close to the TV), configure the terminal emulator, and install TDE. Which I can configure to make it visible (all but the Google Chrome address bar), which is why I like it. Which is why I use it in the first place.
My present trouble shooting is being made much harder by the fact that the console display seems to have gone back to default as a result of the update, so I can't see it anything like properly, even very close to.
Well, Testing + PEBKAC = disaster. :-(
Lisi
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 09:53 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-29 22:11 (UTC+0100):
a) This time, I shall uninstall LXDE as soon as I have TDE up and running. Ditto I shall uninstall lightdm as soon as I have tdm. I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place.
What stops you from not installing LXDE in the first place?
<quote from above> I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place. </quote>
That fact was clear, yet deficient. What exactly makes you need a configurable terminal emulator?
Are you unable to function on tty[1-6] in 80x25 mode (with no DE installed)?
On this television, I can't really see well enough to trouble shoot without a DE until I have managed to edit the console display, let alone edit my sources list and install anything. So no, I am not able to function on tty[1-6] with no DE installed.
If you can't see well enough due to lack of adequate size, is it that you don't know how to acquire adequate size? Text on a TV screen be made seriouslly big.
All my installs are HTTP minimal from netboot[1], after which I apt-get update and apt-get install mc', create /etc/apt/99local containing
APT::Install-Recommends "0"; APT::Install-Suggests "0";,
adjust sources if necessary or desired, then apt-get or aptitude install whatever DM/DE I want or need. The installation result is lean, upgrades quicker, and doesn't have a menu loaded with apps I've never used or wanted.
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
The required resolution depends surely on the monitor one is using?
Absolutely. The question is what's required for you, bigger text, bigger screen, bigger both? 1024x768 is a low res mode supported on some pretty big screens. Text 14pt & up is readily doable. Lower resolution still means bigger yet text. 80x25 on a TV screen can produce seriously large text.
If I could see well enough to do so on the machine in question, attached to my TV, I would do so. But I can't. So I do an install with LXDE (I can see the installer if I go close to the TV), configure the terminal emulator, and install TDE. Which I can configure to make it visible (all but the Google Chrome address bar), which is why I like it. Which is why I use it in the first place.
What is it that the TE does that helps?
My present trouble shooting is being made much harder by the fact that the console display seems to have gone back to default as a result of the update, so I can't see it anything like properly, even very close to.
Well, Testing + PEBKAC = disaster. :-(
What size does text need to be for you to be able to work with it? 12pt? 16pt? 24pt? larger yet?
On Monday 30 March 2015 10:27:41 Felix Miata wrote:
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 09:53 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-29 22:11 (UTC+0100):
a) This time, I shall uninstall LXDE as soon as I have TDE up and running. Ditto I shall uninstall lightdm as soon as I have tdm. I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place.
What stops you from not installing LXDE in the first place?
<quote from above> I have to have a configurable terminal emulator to install TDE, or I would install without a DE and put just TDE on in the first place. </quote>
That fact was clear, yet deficient. What exactly makes you need a configurable terminal emulator?
So I can configure it. I know that the console can be configured, though I am not very good at it, but I need to be able to see the text in order to edit the file in order to configure it. And it can only b e limitedly configured.
Are you unable to function on tty[1-6] in 80x25 mode (with no DE installed)?
On this television, I can't really see well enough to trouble shoot without a DE until I have managed to edit the console display, let alone edit my sources list and install anything. So no, I am not able to function on tty[1-6] with no DE installed.
If you can't see well enough due to lack of adequate size, is it that you don't know how to acquire adequate size? Text on a TV screen be made seriouslly big.
Yes, I know. But it isn't by default. I have to configure it. Edit the file. And I can't see well enough in the default to configure anything. I can't actually see what I am typing at all because it is beyond the border.
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
The required resolution depends surely on the monitor one is using?
Absolutely. The question is what's required for you, bigger text, bigger screen, bigger both? 1024x768 is a low res mode supported on some pretty big screens. Text 14pt & up is readily doable. Lower resolution still means bigger yet text. 80x25 on a TV screen can produce seriously large text.
Yes, I know. But it needs configuring. It isn't like that by default.
I thought 80x25 just alter4d the width of the columns. This time it is I who do not understand/know enough.
If I could see well enough to do so on the machine in question, attached to my TV, I would do so. But I can't. So I do an install with LXDE (I can see the installer if I go close to the TV), configure the terminal emulator, and install TDE. Which I can configure to make it visible (all but the Google Chrome address bar), which is why I like it. Which is why I use it in the first place.
What is it that the TE does that helps?
I can configure it.
My present trouble shooting is being made much harder by the fact that the console display seems to have gone back to default as a result of the update, so I can't see it anything like properly, even very close to.
Well, Testing + PEBKAC = disaster. :-(
What size does text need to be for you to be able to work with it? 12pt? 16pt? 24pt? larger yet?
Depends on so many things. Contrast. Clarity. How much text is jammed how close to itself. How close I can get to the screen. (I am about 6" away from this, which is at the bottom of the screen. 4" away from the monitor at the nearest point. It is 15 point Bitstream Vera Sans, which is an exceptionally clear font, and 15 point is a lot larger than, say, 15 point Times New Roman. The text is black on a white background. It is also a very clear monitor. Clearer than many.)
On the TV screen, ideally I need *at least* 32 point.
And I actually need the paragraph above the sentence above broken up in order to be able to read it. It is too large a block of text, and KMail doesn't allow me to spread it out at all. But I typed it, so I know what it says. ;-)
Lisi
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 11:18 (UTC+0100):
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
The required resolution depends surely on the monitor one is using?
Absolutely. The question is what's required for you, bigger text, bigger screen, bigger both? 1024x768 is a low res mode supported on some pretty big screens. Text 14pt & up is readily doable. Lower resolution still means bigger yet text. 80x25 on a TV screen can produce seriously large text.
Yes, I know. But it needs configuring. It isn't like that by default.
I thought 80x25 just alter4d the width of the columns. This time it is I who do not understand/know enough.
I just booted the Ubuntu aka Debian Installer with the following added to the cmdline
splash=0 vga=normal video=640x480
The resulting vtty text is the same size as when booting DOS, 80 columns by 25 rows. On a 41.0 cm x 26.0 cm (19" diagonal) screen that results in text somewhere in the vicinity of 24pt. This to me sounds like it would be usable for you. If not, a bigger screen like 69.8 cm x 39.3 cm (31.5" diagonal) ought to get somewhere around 32pt-36pt.
If those produce too big you could try
splash=0 vga=785 video=800x600
which would shrink text size down by around 1/3, giving about 100 columns wide by 37 rows tall.
I have a hard time imagining a terminal emulator doing better than either of these two simple to implement configurations.
On Monday 30 March 2015 15:16:35 Felix Miata wrote:
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 11:18 (UTC+0100):
[1] included on installation cmdline: tasks="standard" vga=791 video=1024x768@60
The required resolution depends surely on the monitor one is using?
Absolutely. The question is what's required for you, bigger text, bigger screen, bigger both? 1024x768 is a low res mode supported on some pretty big screens. Text 14pt & up is readily doable. Lower resolution still means bigger yet text. 80x25 on a TV screen can produce seriously large text.
Yes, I know. But it needs configuring. It isn't like that by default.
I thought 80x25 just alter4d the width of the columns. This time it is I who do not understand/know enough.
I just booted the Ubuntu aka Debian Installer with the following added to the cmdline
splash=0 vga=normal video=640x480
The resulting vtty text is the same size as when booting DOS, 80 columns by 25 rows. On a 41.0 cm x 26.0 cm (19" diagonal) screen that results in text somewhere in the vicinity of 24pt. This to me sounds like it would be usable for you. If not, a bigger screen like 69.8 cm x 39.3 cm (31.5" diagonal) ought to get somewhere around 32pt-36pt.
If those produce too big you could try
splash=0 vga=785 video=800x600
which would shrink text size down by around 1/3, giving about 100 columns wide by 37 rows tall.
Thanks, Felix. And thanks for going to the trouble. But as I said, I have no trouble with the installer. The Debian Jessie installer has been well thought out in terms of disability and is great.
Anything that can be installed at installation time is no trouble. But sadly TDE can't be. I either have to install without a DE and install one later, or install one of those offered.
It is the post installation tty that I can't see. So I can't install, reboot, then install a TDE from the command line.
So I install a DE at installation time, boot it up, launch its terminal emulator, configure said terminal emulator to be legible (by me) and install TDE. It doesn't have to be LXDE that I install, but LXDE is the lightest on offer.
I have a hard time imagining a terminal emulator doing better than either of these two simple to implement configurations.
For the record, a terminal emulator _can_, and _does_, do better. Clarity matters too. A lot. And a terminal emulator, which is a GUI application, can produce larger text without so significantly reducing clarity.
You get better clarity with 1280x1024 than with 640x480, and you can enlarge by increasing the number of pixels, not only by spreading the pixels thinner. In fact, in the ordinary way you have to do so in a GUI. Think of TT fonts in a word processor.
Lisi
Lisi Reisz composed on 2015-03-30 10:43 (UTC-0400):
But as I said, I have no trouble with the installer.
Until now this was never clear to me.
The Debian Jessie installer has been well thought out in terms of disability and is great.
It's been a while since I've done a Debian installation, so don't know if there's any significant difference between its "Jessie" installer and older or Vivid's, or if there is more than one Debian installer to choose from.
Anything that can be installed at installation time is no trouble. But sadly TDE can't be.
Understood.
I either have to install without a DE and install one later, or install one of those offered.
Understood.
It is the post installation tty that I can't see. So I can't install, reboot, then install a TDE from the command line.
So now the question is what's different between using Jessie and the post-installation ttys? Is Jessie a GUI-mode installer, or still a text-based one *buntu's mini.iso shares? It sounds like Jessie is radically different from any Debian installer I've ever seen.
The post-Etch, post-installation ttys for both Debian and Ubuntu for me were for years a significant reason why I've rarely used either.
But apparently something's changed not so long ago, probably as a result of post-KMS, post-sysvinit evolution of console-setup and/or font handling. Trusty 14.04, on the machine I just installed Vivid on, by default still uses spindly, ugly fonts on the ttys, along with low contrast colors, in spite of use of video display options on cmdline that since last century have worked nicely in all non-Debians I've ever used.
In Vivid that's no longer the case. Whether this was new in Utopic or in Vivid is intentional rather than a bug I can't say. Absent display of /etc/issue on a tty just above the login prompt, I wouldn't know I'd just booted Vivid instead of openSUSE, Fedora or Mageia.
So I install a DE at installation time, boot it up, launch its terminal emulator, configure said terminal emulator to be legible (by me) and install TDE.
Until now, it wasn't clear to me your meaning of the term "terminal emulator". AFAIK, most KDE and TDE users refer to what you call a terminal emulator by the proper name of their DE's native incarnation of a terminal, Konsole, or one of the alternatives' proper names, such as Xterm. "About" in Konsole 1.6.6 in Trinity R14.0.0 reports "X terminal for use with TDE", not terminal emulator. In the R14 menu Konsole is called a terminal program, not a terminal emulator. So, I wasn't aware you were even in X, as opposed to using some emulation application on an entirely different computer.
It doesn't have to be LXDE that I install, but LXDE is the lightest on offer.
I have a hard time imagining a terminal emulator doing better than either of these two simple to implement configurations.
For the record, a terminal emulator _can_, and _does_, do better. Clarity matters too. A lot. And a terminal emulator, which is a GUI application, can produce larger text without so significantly reducing clarity.
I fully agree Konsole affords a lot better quality than traditional Debian vttys provide by default.
You get better clarity with 1280x1024 than with 640x480, and you can enlarge by increasing the number of pixels, not only by spreading the pixels thinner. In fact, in the ordinary way you have to do so in a GUI.
I explain these very things in an X context to people quite often, and more often to web stylists in A11Y/U7Y discussion. Pixels are a scourge on PC users that dates back over two decades. When Windows 95 came out, the best commonly available displays were '17"' CRTs that measured 16" diagonally, offering a whopping ugly 1024x768 @80 DPI. Improving to 96 DPI or more took a *lot* more money to get either 1280x1024 (a 5:4 ratio squished into a 4:3 physical area using non-square pixels) and/or larger size, or using a smaller display causing sufferance of everything being tiny. When I explain pixels and DPI to people I typically cite previous explanations, such as these oldies: http://style.cleverchimp.com/font_size/points/font_wars.GIF http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fontblog/archive/2005/11/08/490490.aspx http://tidbits.com/article/5284 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12474 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16927 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26608 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41115
On a somewhat related note Lisi, a very few significant web sites (besides http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ ) seem to have gotten that user settings ought to be respected and embraced. I'm interested if you have any opinion on some I've noticed: http://www.cnn.com/ http://www.gallupstrengthscenter.com/ http://www.pa.gov/ http://www.zeldman.com/ http://7online.com/
On Monday 30 March 2015 10:27:41 Felix Miata wrote:
If you can't see well enough due to lack of adequate size, is it that you don't know how to acquire adequate size?
I should have said, all advice on this very greatly welcomed. Whether I can do it initially or not, there may be a lot more that I could do that googling hasn't found for me.
Lisi
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Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Felix Miata -
Gerhard Zintel -
Lisi Reisz -
Robert Peters