said deloptes via tde-users: | dep via tde-users wrote: | > what's the right answer? is there a solid non-ubuntu ubuntu that | > without too much crowbar use runs TDE? | | why don't you try some of the live cds (usb images)? | | https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs | | or here | | https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Category:Documentation | | Also keep in mind there is a major version update coming soon, allegedly | in a month or two that's a little bit what i was looking for; i was hoping to hone it down to what amounts to a non-canonical mirror or near-mirror of ubuntu -- package names maintained and so on. it would be easy enough for me to do a straight upgrade, just by changing the version name from focal to jammy. so that's not an issue. what *is* an issue is the direction ubuntu is heading, by doing such things as throwing up warnings that say "we have these security fixes, too, but you can't have them unless you join our little club." i'm not happy with the ubuntu distro, but i'm extremely unhappy with canonical. so i was hoping to find a repo/distro that lets me simply change the server addresses in /etc/apt/sources.list and upgrade like always. i very much *do not* want to do a clean install. i guess i should have mentioned that. -- dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/

said deloptes via tde-users: | Usually Debian (must apply to Ubuntu as well) recommends to upgrade to | next version only - skipping version can have unpredicted results. Except when going from one LTS to the next LTS, as in 20.04LTS to 22.04LTS. And the reason I'm doing it now is that Ubuntu LTS releases generally need about a year to shake out the most egregious bugs and vulnerabilities. So I upgrade to LTS distros in odd-number years. -- dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/

PS: I'm pretty sure the changes ubuntu makes are going to require a clean install to be able to use anything else...

said Felix Miata via tde-users: | I don't understand the fixation with .deb, or the problem upgrading | *buntu by simple /etc/apt/ edits. That's all I did to get from 20.04 to | 22.04, on 8 or so installations with no DE other than TDE. I don't understand how I failed to get across what I was trying to say, which included how for many upgrades I've just edited /etc/apt/sources.list to upgrade, but that Canonical is behaving objectionably in other ways and therefore I want to find a *free* distro that will let me get away with just editing /etc/apt/sources.list the way, I guess I failed to mention, I have for more than a decade. -- dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/

said Felix Miata via tde-users: | I still don't understand how I was able to do a bunch of times with no | issues in memory, while you can't do it once. What's in your sources | that you are unable to change from focal to jammy and do apt[-get,itude] | full-upgrade? That's not the issue. The issue is that Canonical is getting bad and planning, I think, to get worse -- anybody remember Caldera? -- and I want to use a different distro. I, too, have upgraded Ubuntu uneventfully since, I think, 8.04. I would like to continue to upgrade uneventfully. I just don't want to get it from Ubuntu, which is Canonical, and which has taken to things such as adding little messages saying that there are other security upgrades that it's holding back unless I register with them. To use a delicate term, screw that. -- dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/

said Felix Miata via tde-users: | dep composed on 2023-03-10 03:11 (UTC): | > I would like to continue to upgrade uneventfully. I | > just don't want to get it from Ubuntu | | Now I get it. Are you limited by having only one PC, which must be up | 24/7, and no time at all for experimentation? If not, and unless it has | been reported impossible, I'd clone the current *buntu to another disk | and/or PC, and try upgrading from Ubuntu to Debian (without which *buntu | would not exist). I might even try one just for fun if no one here knows | of reports suggesting it too difficult or impossible. *buntu has some | things that differ, and plenty of embellishments, but they are probably | unnecessary to your working system, or any Debian system, which apt* | probably would report no longer needed and removable. I'm not limited as to computers, but I am limited as to time and my current configuration works -- no more taking two days to get the frigging vid driver to work, for instance (which is a non-free driver, which makes trouble with Debian; in any case, last time I did a Ubuntu-Debian the result was not pretty). I'm thinking that Ubuntu to the "free" Ubuntu -- Trisquel (https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/migrate-ubuntu-trisquel-without-reinstalling ) -- might work. There's a script, last updated a decade ago, that if edited might work, and it apparently incorporates /etc/apt/sources.list. But it is also free-as-in-Debian, so who knows what it will do to non-free stuff. I've inquired as to whether it has a non-free repository. I'm hoping that the names remain the same -- security, updates, backports -- and all I need to do is change the servers (in which case I could probably even keep the genuine Ubuntu non-free repo). I've made inquiry as to the servers; with luck I can simply edit the sources.list, a little more elaborately than Ubuntu-Ubuntu but still, and then proceed as normal. Ubuntu has just been sneaking too much stuff onto my machine -- "Ubuntu Advantage," now the warning messages during security updates -- for me to be at all comfortable with them anymore. I guess I was hoping either someone here had done this or else knew of a magic way of switching over to full Debian without much pain. -- dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/

read the whole register piece. currently, purging it brings down the system -- it's meta packaged to essential stuff. canonical is being opportunistic about all this. i want nothing further to do with it or them. dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/ On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:05 AM, Felix Miata via tde-users <users(a)trinitydesktop.org> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Thursday 09 March 2023, Felix Miata via tde-users was heard to say: I've noticed entries in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ are getting added in the background on some systems, those would not be changed by editing sources.list Something to look for. - -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"

said Michele Calgaro via tde-users: | On 2023/03/10 07:34 AM, dep via tde-users wrote: | > what's the right answer? is there a solid non-ubuntu ubuntu that | > without too much crowbar use runs TDE? | | Debian :-) Assuming that you didn't think I was asking "what's your favorite distro," can I in fact point my /etc/apt/sources.list at a Debian server and have it update/upgrade without breaking things? There's the additional concern that I have hardware, particularly video, that pretty much demands binary drivers, and if memory serves Debian is highly allergic to those. -- dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/

On Thu March 9 2023 18:45:52 dep via tde-users wrote: Debian has many binary drivers in non-free. I'd be stuck without them. I have in the past successfully migrated approx two dozen systems from Ubuntu to Debian without reinstalling from scratch. However this was after extensive testing on virtual machines to figure out reliable migrations. This is of course totally unsupported and not recommended. Too much has changed for my experiences from those tests to be of much value today but in general I found it easiest to uninstall desktop stuff, migrate the base system, and then reinstall the desktop stuff. Whether you choose to try Debian or something closer to Ubuntu it doesn't hurt to backup your apt configuration then point it at a new distro and: apt update apt --dry-run dist-upgrade - to get an idea what kind of problems you might be facing. --Mike

On 3/9/23 7:10 PM, Felix Miata via tde-users wrote: Well, I should've said I really want to stay with Debian for compatibility, if at all possible. If some program, driver, etc., is available for only one distro, it's almost always Debian. -- For PGP key, search on the PGP Global Directory.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Thursday 09 March 2023, Dan Youngquist via tde-users was heard to say: Ok. If I may jump in with a thing or two. Yes, perpetual upgrades from version to version works on Debian. Although a clean install has its benefits I've only _had_ to do so when going to a new primary HD. You're not going to be able to jump from Ubuntu to Debian without a fresh install. What you can do is zip you home directory, including the .directories, and then restore the needed ones to the new install. So .trinity, .ssh, and so on. Here's my list from my annual backup scripts: zip -r -9 curt-dotfiles-20211231.zip .bash* .confi* .csh* .cla* .fon* .gnu* .mozi* .report* .ss* .Sky* .trin* Restoring your entire ~/.trinity directory tree will restore your TDE settings and application data. Save a list of currently installed packages: dpkg --get-selections >selections.list Ubuntu doesn't use all the same package names, but having this list will save you lots of guessing in the future. When you do your Debian install, you can choose to do a full desktop install with xfce, for example, and then use that to jump to TDE, or you can do the install with no GUI and TDE will pull in all the needed GUI packages. I've done both, Doing GUI up front is easier. Having an unused xfce doesn't take up much space. So now you have your fresh Debian. Restore your .trinity, .ssh, and any other files and ~/.directories that look useful. I use custom .bash* files for a cute cursor. Unzip your home directory entries when logged in as you, not root, so file attributes and ownership aren't messed up. I believe the latest Debian installers automagically add "main contrib non-free" to the primary repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list, but if they're not all there, add them to every line: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye main non-free contrib deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main contrib non-free deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ bullseye-updates main contrib non-free Add deb-multimedia.org and TDE to your sources.list: # Debian Multimedia deb http://deb-multimedia.org bullseye main non-free # Trinity Desktop deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/deb/trinity-r14.0.x bullseye main deb http://mirror.ppa.trinitydesktop.org/trinity/deb/trinity-builddeps-r14.0.x bullseye main (sorry for the arbitrary wrapping) Deb-multimedia.org has instructions on importing their signing keys on their front page. TDE on the Debian install page. Now install TDE. If you went the GUI route, Debian will ask you if you want to use TDM for login when TDM is installed. That's up to you, lightdm will also show Trinity as a login option once TDE is installed, so you can use whatever you want. This will give you Debian, and the TDE look/and/feel that you're accustomed to. Remember selections.list from earlier? You can now open that and see what, if anything, you want which wasn't installed already. You can use the bulldozer method: apt-get update dpkg --set-selections <selections.list apt-get dselect-upgrade ...but that tends to have lots of "I'm sorry, Dave, I can't do that" messages. Also Debian tends to maintain the same package names between versions once established, I don't know what the Ubuntu list might have that could cause problems. So the bulldozer can be ignored. When you want to upgrade versions, just change to the new version name in your /etc/apt/sources.list, and... apt-get update apt-get upgrade apt-get dist-upgrade Just upgrade will not overwrite existing things, dist-upgrade will. Personally, I've been using the dselect package manager since I first installed Debian in early 1995. I've found it works very well resolving version upgrades in one step rather than two. Most people I've told about it call me a dinosaur. Since Ubuntu includes dselect it made Ubuntu system management at my last employer so very much easier for me, I just treated Ubuntu like an obsolete version of Debian and we got along fine. I hope this is useful. Being able to keep the look/and/feel even in catastrophic restors and across multiple systems by saving/restoring the .trinity directory (and before that .kde) has been one of the great benefits and pleasures of using Trinity. Curt- - -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Friday 10 March 2023, phiebie--- via tde-users was heard to say: firmware-linux firmware-linux-free firmware-linux-nonfree firmware-misc-nonfree After the non-free repositories are specified, of course. - -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Friday 10 March 2023, phiebie--- via tde-users was heard to say: ... This is a change I had not heard about. Thank you. - -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On Friday 10 March 2023, Curt Howland via tde-users was heard to say: Since this was not obvious, these are packages not repositories, in Debian 11 and prior. That firmware is to be specified in Debian 12 in the sources.list file is a major departure from prior behavior. So much for upgrading by changing the pointers and running update. Bummer. - -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"