Hi, everybody!
We're two months away from Microsoft Corp. discontinuing "support" of Windows 10. In conjunction with this, Windows 11, which is not just awful but also invasive, requires that many people purchase new computers. No doubt some will do this -- there will always be people who have more dollars than sense -- but many may be ripe for an alternative.
I'll be in the next couple of days writing a piece on that alternative. The best choice, in my view, is Debian and TDE.
So I'm seeking an installable live CD that provides just that. I thought there was one, "Matrix OS," but when one follows the link on the LiveCDs page -- https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs -- it throws a "your account is suspended" error.
Is there another Debian spin containing TDE? It would be good if TDE were included in DEbian already -- Enlightenment is in the repository -- but I am not here to solve that problem. I'm here to rescue those whose computers have been abandoned by msft and, with luck, increase the TDE user base a bit. Thing is, I cannot recommend any other distribution or desktop.
Anno domini 2025 Thu, 14 Aug 18:54:30 +0000 dep via tde-users scripsit:
Hi, everybody!
We're two months away from Microsoft Corp. discontinuing "support" of Windows 10. In conjunction with this, Windows 11, which is not just awful but also invasive, requires that many people purchase new computers. No doubt some will do this -- there will always be people who have more dollars than sense -- but many may be ripe for an alternative.
I'll be in the next couple of days writing a piece on that alternative. The best choice, in my view, is Debian and TDE.
So I'm seeking an installable live CD that provides just that. I thought there was one, "Matrix OS," but when one follows the link on the LiveCDs page -- https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs -- it throws a "your account is suspended" error.
Is there another Debian spin containing TDE? It would be good if TDE were included in DEbian already -- Enlightenment is in the repository -- but I am not here to solve that problem. I'm here to rescue those whose computers have been abandoned by msft and, with luck, increase the TDE user base a bit. Thing is, I cannot recommend any other distribution or desktop.
If you could live with Devuan (aka debian without systemd) then I can point you to my remix: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56790#p56790
Next version will be out hopefully till end of august :)
Nik
said Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users: | Anno domini 2025 Thu, 14 Aug 18:54:30 +0000 | | dep via tde-users scripsit: | > Hi, everybody! | > | > We're two months away from Microsoft Corp. discontinuing "support" of | > Windows 10. In conjunction with this, Windows 11, which is not just | > awful but also invasive, requires that many people purchase new | > computers. No doubt some will do this -- there will always be people | > who have more dollars than sense -- but many may be ripe for an | > alternative. | > | > I'll be in the next couple of days writing a piece on that | > alternative. The best choice, in my view, is Debian and TDE. | > | > So I'm seeking an installable live CD that provides just that. I | > thought there was one, "Matrix OS," but when one follows the link on | > the LiveCDs page -- https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs -- it | > throws a "your account is suspended" error. | > | > Is there another Debian spin containing TDE? It would be good if TDE | > were included in DEbian already -- Enlightenment is in the repository | > -- but I am not here to solve that problem. I'm here to rescue those | > whose computers have been abandoned by msft and, with luck, increase | > the TDE user base a bit. Thing is, I cannot recommend any other | > distribution or desktop. | | If you could live with Devuan (aka debian without systemd) then I can | point you to my remix: | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56790#p56790 | | Next version will be out hopefully till end of august :)
Alas, Nik, I applaud your tremendous work, but my goal here is to get people on Linux and TDE in the simplest way possible, with easy updates/upgrades and no complications: boot from CD or USB, play with the desktop and applications, hit install.
Maybe https://www.q4os.org/ would work? Never used it personally, but it's Debian based and has a TDE option
Ros
On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 3:58 PM dep via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
said Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users: | Anno domini 2025 Thu, 14 Aug 18:54:30 +0000 | | dep via tde-users scripsit: | > Hi, everybody! | > | > We're two months away from Microsoft Corp. discontinuing "support" of | > Windows 10. In conjunction with this, Windows 11, which is not just | > awful but also invasive, requires that many people purchase new | > computers. No doubt some will do this -- there will always be people | > who have more dollars than sense -- but many may be ripe for an | > alternative. | > | > I'll be in the next couple of days writing a piece on that | > alternative. The best choice, in my view, is Debian and TDE. | > | > So I'm seeking an installable live CD that provides just that. I | > thought there was one, "Matrix OS," but when one follows the link on | > the LiveCDs page -- https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs -- it | > throws a "your account is suspended" error. | > | > Is there another Debian spin containing TDE? It would be good if TDE | > were included in DEbian already -- Enlightenment is in the repository | > -- but I am not here to solve that problem. I'm here to rescue those | > whose computers have been abandoned by msft and, with luck, increase | > the TDE user base a bit. Thing is, I cannot recommend any other | > distribution or desktop. | | If you could live with Devuan (aka debian without systemd) then I can | point you to my remix: | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56790#p56790 | | Next version will be out hopefully till end of august :)
Alas, Nik, I applaud your tremendous work, but my goal here is to get people on Linux and TDE in the simplest way possible, with easy updates/upgrades and no complications: boot from CD or USB, play with the desktop and applications, hit install. -- dep
Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
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said Ross Merrifield via tde-users:
| Maybe https://www.q4os.org/ would work? Never used it personally, but | it's Debian based and has a TDE option
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately "Debian-based" pretty much always means "uses the .deb package management and will run things from the Debian repository," kind of like television shows that are "based on a real story." There's always a catch. I learned that from Canonical, which was fine for awhile and well loved in the community, but then started charging for security updates and forcing "snap" packages, controlled by Canonical, onto its users. If it were based on Debian in a meaningful way, I should have been able to simply switch the entries in /etc/apt/sources.list from Ubuntu to Debian, do an update and upgrade, and be switched to Debian. But no. Can't trust any of the "based-on" distributions -- there's no guarantee.
That's why it pretty much *has* to be Debian, and for power and ease of use it pretty much *has* to be TDE. Talking people who have been on Windows through installing Linux and TDE would be a daunting task, which is why I'm so hoping to find a Debian/TDE respin.
On Thursday 14 August 2025 20:01:03 dep via tde-users wrote:
"Debian-based" pretty much always means "uses the .deb package management and will run things from the Debian repository," kind of like television shows that are "based on a real story." There's always a catch. I learned that from Canonical, which was fine for awhile and well loved in the community, but then started charging for security updates and forcing "snap" packages, controlled by Canonical, onto its users. If it were based on Debian in a meaningful way, I should have been able to simply switch the entries in /etc/apt/sources.list from Ubuntu to Debian, do an update and upgrade, and be switched to Debian. But no. Can't trust any of the "based-on" distributions -- there's no guarantee.
That's why it pretty much *has* to be Debian, and for power and ease of use it pretty much *has* to be TDE. Talking people who have been on Windows through installing Linux and TDE would be a daunting task, which is why I'm so hoping to find a Debian/TDE respin.
Like yourself, I got tired of wrestling with Ubuntu (actually, Kubuntu) to keep control of my machines. That's why I changed over to Debian.
But it's also why I changed from Debian over to Devuan, because Debian may yet go the same way as the 'Buntus; although I think that's a long way off. The way systemd was forced on users, even though (as I understand it) some felt that it went against the principles or philosophy of Debian. I don't know all the details, just what I gleaned in the corners of the internet some years ago. Anyway, like I always tell people, Devuan seems more true to Debian than Devuan itself; at least, for me, it runs better than Debian ever did. I hear that one can run Debian without systemd, just use init again, but I haven't felt inclined to give it a try.
There is, however, one good reason to recommend Devuan, which is that a number of Devuan distros come with TDE pre-installed, which is what you wanted. I am thinking of AntiX and MXLinux. I don't run them myself, but I know that some here on the mailing list do run them, so they would know more than I.
Myself, I would like to find a vanilla Devuan OS with TDE pre-installed, as I want to stick with that for now, and TDE installs on top of that just fine.
Just my two cents' worth.
Bill
On Friday 15 August 2025 05:01:03 dep via tde-users wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately "Debian-based" pretty much always means "uses the .deb package management and will run things from the Debian repository,"
I can recommend MX Linux, which is Debian based, easy to use, and has a very good update system (tells you you have updates, you click and it gets done).
Unfortunately this really works well with xfce. Running TDE on it is easy when you know what you're doing, but there are some things to tweak (such as aditing the menus to add tdesu to run the MX utilities and other software that require root or sudo password).
I did not manage to make an iso that installs from TDE, I did get one that installs from xfce, with TDE, and you need to change desktop and dm by hand after install.
That works well enough for me, but is probably not what you're after. Still worth a look I think.
Thierry
On Friday 15 August 2025 02:05:54 am Thierry de Coulon via tde-users wrote:
On Friday 15 August 2025 05:01:03 dep via tde-users wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately "Debian-based" pretty much always means "uses the .deb package management and will run things from the Debian repository,"
I can recommend MX Linux, which is Debian based, easy to use, and has a very good update system (tells you you have updates, you click and it gets done).
Unfortunately this really works well with xfce. Running TDE on it is easy when you know what you're doing, but there are some things to tweak (such as aditing the menus to add tdesu to run the MX utilities and other software that require root or sudo password).
Hi Thierry,
You can avoid all the tweaks by creating two users. One for your everyday TDE usage, and one for those very few nitpick things that have to be done in Xfce.
Ah, nm, I sent you the info several months ago, which I just found trying to dig up a link to it.
How to install new MX and not trash your existing TDE user. https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?p=815153#p815153
Best, Michael
On Tuesday 19 August 2025 20:45:24 Michael via tde-users wrote:
Hi Thierry,
You can avoid all the tweaks by creating two users. One for your everyday TDE usage, and one for those very few nitpick things that have to be done in Xfce.
Yes you can, I have this for work (xfce is quite good when using the laptop connected to a beamer, with OpenBoard). I use TDE when not using the beamer.
But actually, editing these few menus is easy and you can then use MX Tools from TDE.
However, that is not what the OP wanted as it requires the user to understand more of how his system works.
Thierry
Anno domini 2025 Thu, 14 Aug 22:57:47 +0000 dep via tde-users scripsit:
said Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users: | Anno domini 2025 Thu, 14 Aug 18:54:30 +0000 | | dep via tde-users scripsit: | > Hi, everybody! | > | > We're two months away from Microsoft Corp. discontinuing "support" of | > Windows 10. In conjunction with this, Windows 11, which is not just | > awful but also invasive, requires that many people purchase new | > computers. No doubt some will do this -- there will always be people | > who have more dollars than sense -- but many may be ripe for an | > alternative. | > | > I'll be in the next couple of days writing a piece on that | > alternative. The best choice, in my view, is Debian and TDE. | > | > So I'm seeking an installable live CD that provides just that. I | > thought there was one, "Matrix OS," but when one follows the link on | > the LiveCDs page -- https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/LiveCDs -- it | > throws a "your account is suspended" error. | > | > Is there another Debian spin containing TDE? It would be good if TDE | > were included in DEbian already -- Enlightenment is in the repository | > -- but I am not here to solve that problem. I'm here to rescue those | > whose computers have been abandoned by msft and, with luck, increase | > the TDE user base a bit. Thing is, I cannot recommend any other | > distribution or desktop. | | If you could live with Devuan (aka debian without systemd) then I can | point you to my remix: | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56790#p56790 | | Next version will be out hopefully till end of august :)
Alas, Nik, I applaud your tremendous work, but my goal here is to get people on Linux and TDE in the simplest way possible, with easy updates/upgrades and no complications: boot from CD or USB, play with the desktop and applications, hit install.
Hm .. I'm wondering .. is the install stuff what bothers you? Refractrainstaller is not the nicest tool, but it works and leves you with a mostly vanilla devuan installation. I'm currently having on big issue on my todo-list: working around the problem that the localisation in TDE defaults to e.g. derman->russian->engish and not german->engish, russian->english.
Nik
On 2025/08/15 04:22 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
Next version will be out hopefully till end of august 🙂
Hi Nik, just a thought here. You usually prepare your TDE Darkness a couple of months before the next TDE release. Wouldn't it be better to do it one or two months after a TDE release? Not asking to change your workflow/process if you don't want, but just thought it would be a better timing. Cheers Michele
dep via tde-users wrote:
Hi, everybody!
We're two months away from Microsoft Corp. discontinuing "support" of Windows 10. In conjunction with this, Windows 11, which is not just awful but also invasive, requires that many people purchase new computers. No doubt some will do this -- there will always be people who have more dollars than sense -- but many may be ripe for an alternative.
If the hardware is OK, you can buy the windows 11 license only and upgrade on the fly. I have one notebook that I bought with win 10 and they offered me to upgrade for free after win 11 came out, so I did it (AFAIR two years ago). It is working fine and IMO it is even better than Win 10 (in some or many aspects). I think it is a shame what the EU did with OpenOffice around 2009. Since then the imbeciles in Brussels degraded to complete idiots.
My motto: Use the tools you need to finish the job.
BR
said deloptes via tde-users: | dep via tde-users wrote: | > Hi, everybody! | > | > We're two months away from Microsoft Corp. discontinuing "support" of | > Windows 10. In conjunction with this, Windows 11, which is not just | > awful but also invasive, requires that many people purchase new | > computers. No doubt some will do this -- there will always be people | > who have more dollars than sense -- but many may be ripe for an | > alternative. | | If the hardware is OK, you can buy the windows 11 license only and | upgrade on the fly. I have one notebook that I bought with win 10 and | they offered me to upgrade for free after win 11 came out, so I did it | (AFAIR two years ago). It is working fine and IMO it is even better than | Win 10 (in some or many aspects). I think it is a shame what the EU did | with OpenOffice around 2009. Since then the imbeciles in Brussels | degraded to complete idiots. | | My motto: Use the tools you need to finish the job.
That's great, if your goal is having Windows. Mine is to bring people to Linux and TDE. And not saddle them with some equally reprehensible corporation -- example: Ubuntu -- when the publisher falls to the dark side. Hence Debian.
dep via tde-users wrote:
That's great, if your goal is having Windows. Mine is to bring people to Linux and TDE. And not saddle them with some equally reprehensible corporation -- example: Ubuntu -- when the publisher falls to the dark side. Hence Debian.
No contradictions. Windows is required usually by business especially by the retarded in the EU. Anyway - it is just a tool that helps you earn money.
On Friday 15 August 2025 00:48:14 deloptes via tde-users wrote:
If the hardware is OK, you can buy the windows 11 license only and upgrade on the fly.
I bought a secondhand Thinkpad X390 and it came with Windows 11 (yes, 11). This was not the original OS on the machine I guess. As I (unfortunately) sometime have to use Windows at work, I just reduced the partition and installed Linux beside.
The other day, I noticed that the M$ stuff refused to update. It was telling me that my OS (Windows 11) was no more supported, and that if I wanted to continue to use WindowsI had to install... Windows 11.
As far as I am concerned, for what I do with Windows, I'd happily stay with Windows 10. I still have a machine running Windows 7, never had a problem since support stopped. But of course I'm not surfing the web with it...
Thierry
dep wrote:
The best choice, in my view, is Debian and TDE. So I'm seeking an installable live CD that provides just that.
You could take a look at yet another Debian+TDE remix [1]. You can customize it as you prefer.
Regards Massi
Hey there!
So its been a while, and yes matrixos.ca is down.... I am hoping to get the site back up today. I am currently between moving houses, and have had other life events pull me away from my project.
I move into the new place August 21st, the next night I am setting the home lab and server back up, and during the next week I will have FRESH Trixie based ISOs built with a fun twist of the old Kubuntu theme backported :)
One issue I am running into is hosting my debian repo (it appears it makes my hosting service unhappy). However one goal, and this is where I think my solution has its upsides, once installed matrixOS is nothing more than a Debian system with Vanilla TDE on top, it simply swims on its own. I do not want a Q4OS situation where you are married to their repos going forward.
First, thanks to everyone for their suggestions. My goal is to give those who are at a fork in the road due to Microsoft's misbehavior a good -- and *easy* -- reason to follow the non-Microsoft path (in the way that Graphene OS lets us to keep Google and Apple off our phones). This requires dealing with two reliable sources, Debian and TDE. Most of those who do "Debian-based" distributions attach themselves as kind of parasites, ala Canonical. Glad no one mentioned Mint.
There are a lots of interesting projects, but they go beyond the scope of the article.
said jacobheinrich--- via tde-users:
| One issue I am running into is hosting my debian repo (it appears it | makes my hosting service unhappy). However one goal, and this is where I | think my solution has its upsides, once installed matrixOS is nothing | more than a Debian system with Vanilla TDE on top, it simply swims on | its own. I do not want a Q4OS situation where you are married to their | repos going forward.
Precisely.
I'll postpone a week, then, and see if you get it up and running. It's too bad that Debian doesn't offer a version with TDE, as it does just about everything else.
If it doesn't work out, I'll just suggest that people download the Debian live CD with LXDE or LXQT, both of which while not ideal are acceptable. The current KDE is an overly complicated mess -- why do something in 15 seconds with TDE, when you can do it in 15 minutes with KDE? -- and Gnome is and always has been simply awful, entirely developer-driven.
So good luck! And may your move go smoothly.
-
deloptes -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
jacobheinrich＠hotmail.com -
massi.ergosum＠gmail.com -
Michael -
Michele Calgaro -
Ross Merrifield -
Thierry de Coulon -
William Morder