Nice explanation both why TDE exists, and why Linux is not more popular: https://www.remembertheusers.com/2015/09/0002-rapid-release-and-usability.ht...
On Sat, 22 Sep 2018, Felix Miata wrote:
Nice explanation both why TDE exists, and why Linux is not more popular: https://www.remembertheusers.com/2015/09/0002-rapid-release-and-usability.ht...
Even though that article is 3 years old, it's something I've felt for more years than that. Defense Exhibit A: GIMP
Jonesy
Marvin Jones wrote:
Even though that article is 3 years old, it's something I've felt for more years than that. Defense Exhibit A: GIMP
I agree in some extent it might be true, but in reality Linux hit the Windows and other servers market heavily. They can not forgive. I also heard there are Linux hater groups inside Microsoft and other corporation.
I am unsatisfied with the development of Linux in the past 10yeayrs - looks like the new generation has a different point of view on how things should go ... but this is also ok. One gets older anyway
regards
Am Samstag, 22. September 2018 schrieb deloptes:
Marvin Jones wrote:
Even though that article is 3 years old, it's something I've felt for more years than that. Defense Exhibit A: GIMP
I agree in some extent it might be true, but in reality Linux hit the Windows and other servers market heavily. They can not forgive. I also heard there are Linux hater groups inside Microsoft and other corporation.
I am unsatisfied with the development of Linux in the past 10yeayrs - looks like the new generation has a different point of view on how things should go ... but this is also ok. One gets older anyway
Well ... Windows guys arrived at linux some years ago, and this is what you get. "Those who don't understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. " ... had a talk with a guy yesterday, who tried to sell me "microservices" as the greatest invention since the advent of computers, 'cause "things are well isolated then" ...
Nik
On Saturday 22 September 2018 18:30:20 deloptes wrote:
Marvin Jones wrote:
Even though that article is 3 years old, it's something I've felt for more years than that. Defense Exhibit A: GIMP
I agree in some extent it might be true, but in reality Linux hit the Windows and other servers market heavily. They can not forgive. I also heard there are Linux hater groups inside Microsoft and other corporation. I am unsatisfied with the development of Linux in the past 10yeayrs - looks like the new generation has a different point of view on how things should go ... but this is also ok. One gets older anyway regards
Linux represents more than 60% on the professionnal market servers. Now, all the super calculators are on Linux. Microsoft has lost the professionnal market and the mobile market, for Android at 95%. It's why, it hates Linux and the openssource, tries, to come back on the cloud, to have now friendly relations with the opensource environment, and declares that it is "the champion of the Opensource" (sic), (opensummit exhibition in Paris since more than 5 years, it says and writes that).
In the general public market (the people), Linux has a weak part, about 3% (Apple 10%, Windows 85%) and I'm asking why ?
Maybe Linux is a little bit too complex, the tying practice, computers sold with Windows pre-installed, that is a shame, and in most of schools, the computers are on Windows (a shame again). Microsoft has given a lot of money to the french national education ministry, to keep Windows in the french schools (shame number 3), (a child always keeps all his life in memory what he learned young, and microsoft knows that very well. A practice of microsoft also in european countries and in many ministries... They invest money to keep the market (shame number 4).
Android is a Linux system and nobody has difficulties on it, said Linus Torvalds.
My daughter has learned computing on Linux, now she is 18 years old and continues on Linux Debian with Trinity Desktop.
Anyway, I prefer Linux and will never come back to windows !
André
andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
Linux represents more than 60% on the professionnal market servers. Now, all the super calculators are on Linux. Microsoft has lost the professionnal market and the mobile market, for Android at 95%. It's why, it hates Linux and the openssource, tries, to come back on the cloud, to have now friendly relations with the opensource environment, and declares that it is "the champion of the Opensource" (sic), (opensummit exhibition in Paris since more than 5 years, it says and writes that).
In the general public market (the people), Linux has a weak part, about 3% (Apple 10%, Windows 85%) and I'm asking why ?
Maybe Linux is a little bit too complex, the tying practice, computers sold with Windows pre-installed, that is a shame, and in most of schools, the computers are on Windows (a shame again). Microsoft has given a lot of money to the french national education ministry, to keep Windows in the french schools (shame number 3), (a child always keeps all his life in memory what he learned young, and microsoft knows that very well. A practice of microsoft also in european countries and in many ministries... They invest money to keep the market (shame number 4).
Android is a Linux system and nobody has difficulties on it, said Linus Torvalds.
My daughter has learned computing on Linux, now she is 18 years old and continues on Linux Debian with Trinity Desktop.
Anyway, I prefer Linux and will never come back to windows !
Totally agree with you.
IMO the problem with the desktop is OEM hardware manufacturers and the complexity of GUI, the lack of interest to invest there because the lack of interest to implement it on large scale. In fact it looks like linux is better accepted in Africa (no cost) which was the goal of Ubuntu. I recently saw a documentary on M$ and the EU - how the EU abandoned the open source program or initiative. So there is also a lot of lobbying and politics involved. Perhaps it will take another 20y to come up with a useful linux desktop (at least I hope that it will come up some day) Last but not least the responsibility - there needs to be something like RedHat to commercialize the desktop and take the responsibility. Again I see something like SailFish a good opportunity.
I am really glad there is TDE as I can not imagine using anything else ATM.
We'll see what the future will bring up.
regards
On 2018-09-22 14:00:07 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
On Saturday 22 September 2018 18:30:20 deloptes wrote:
Marvin Jones wrote:
Even though that article is 3 years old, it's something I've felt for more years than that. Defense Exhibit A: GIMP
I agree in some extent it might be true, but in reality Linux hit the Windows and other servers market heavily. They can not forgive. I also heard there are Linux hater groups inside Microsoft and other corporation. I am unsatisfied with the development of Linux in the past 10yeayrs - looks like the new generation has a different point of view on how things should go ... but this is also ok. One gets older anyway regards
Linux represents more than 60% on the professionnal market servers. Now, all the super calculators are on Linux. Microsoft has lost the professionnal market and the mobile market, for Android at 95%. It's why, it hates Linux and the openssource, tries, to come back on the cloud, to have now friendly relations with the opensource environment, and declares that it is "the champion of the Opensource" (sic), (opensummit exhibition in Paris since more than 5 years, it says and writes that).
In the general public market (the people), Linux has a weak part, about 3% (Apple 10%, Windows 85%) and I'm asking why ?
I think that, at first, the desktop environments on Linux were sort of an afterthought, and for quite a long time there were a lot of components that could only be managed from the command line, even after KDE and Gnome were available; this turned off many of the Windows and Mac users who had difficulty or disliked using the command line, having grown used to the point-and-click environment. More recently, though the command line is no longer quite as necessary, the desktop environments have become more diverse in their approach to making applications available to the user, more difficult to configure (e.g. KDE4, Plasma), or provide "features" that are unwanted (e.g. Ubuntu Unity's Shopping Lens).
Maybe Linux is a little bit too complex, the tying practice, computers sold with Windows pre-installed, that is a shame, and in most of schools, the computers are on Windows (a shame again). Microsoft has given a lot of money to the french national education ministry, to keep Windows in the french schools (shame number 3), (a child always keeps all his life in memory what he learned young, and microsoft knows that very well. A practice of microsoft also in european countries and in many ministries... They invest money to keep the market (shame number 4).
Android is a Linux system and nobody has difficulties on it, said Linus Torvalds.
Really? Or is it just that there's nobody listening to their complaints?
My daughter has learned computing on Linux, now she is 18 years old and continues on Linux Debian with Trinity Desktop.
Anyway, I prefer Linux and will never come back to windows !
Agreed.
Leslie
Marvin Jones wrote:
On Sat, 22 Sep 2018, Felix Miata wrote:
Nice explanation both why TDE exists, and why Linux is not more popular: https://www.remembertheusers.com/2015/09/0002-rapid-release-and-usability.ht...
Even though that article is 3 years old, it's something I've felt for more years than that. Defense Exhibit A: GIMP
Jonesy
I read further https://www.remembertheusers.com/2015/10/0004-creating-usable-desktops.html
I think the guy that wrote this article, never used KDE3. I also think the guy did not understood what exactly linux is doing -> targeting primary the server market. I also think that SailfishOS and former Meego project are good examples how good a linux GUI can be. However you can not enforce it to anybody.
regards
On 2018-09-22 05:44:36 Felix Miata wrote:
Nice explanation both why TDE exists, and why Linux is not more popular: https://www.remembertheusers.com/2015/09/0002-rapid-release-and-usability.h tml
Too true. The worst part of it isn't the "change merely for the sake of change," but the lack of recognition that the "non-enthusiast" user wants or needs certain features (in a desktop environment, at least), like clearly distinguishable icons, or straightforward configuration tools, because, while necessary, these are not the primary reason for using the software, but merely a means for making it user-friendly so that they can get their work done. We saw when KDE3 was abandoned that the developers had apparently lost sight of the purpose of KDE as a usability tool and had moved to providing 'eye-candy' and 'gee-whiz' features while making configurability more difficult. That wouldn't have been so bad if they had left some of the old components, like Hicolor-Classic icons, in their "improved" desktop instead of throwing them away.
Leslie
J Leslie Turriff wrote:
Too true. The worst part of it isn't the "change merely for the sake of change," but the lack of recognition that the "non-enthusiast" user wants or needs certain features (in a desktop environment, at least), like clearly distinguishable icons, or straightforward configuration tools, because, while necessary, these are not the primary reason for using the software, but merely a means for making it user-friendly so that they can get their work done. We saw when KDE3 was abandoned that the developers had apparently lost sight of the purpose of KDE as a usability tool and had moved to providing 'eye-candy' and 'gee-whiz' features while making configurability more difficult. That wouldn't have been so bad if they had left some of the old components, like Hicolor-Classic icons, in their "improved" desktop instead of throwing them away.
I would add here doing this with lack of stability and enforcing it to the end user. While I like debugging, supporting the community or communities and contributing, I need most of all stability - when I turn on the computer I expect the GUI to behave the same way as it behaved the moment when I stopped it. This was the biggest draw back - neither Gnome nor KDE > v3 offer such stability as KDE3 (now TDE) does. Imagine I want to check mails and the mail client suddenly does not work or some feature of it does not behave the same, because ... whatever in the background failed to do so. Another example is this indexing that was starting automatically whenever you log in KDE4 and rendering the desktop useless. It is just pathethic!
regards
On 2018-09-22 18:14:19 deloptes wrote:
J Leslie Turriff wrote:
Too true. The worst part of it isn't the "change merely for the sake of change," but the lack of recognition that the "non-enthusiast" user wants or needs certain features (in a desktop environment, at least), like clearly distinguishable icons, or straightforward configuration tools, because, while necessary, these are not the primary reason for using the software, but merely a means for making it user-friendly so that they can get their work done. We saw when KDE3 was abandoned that the developers had apparently lost sight of the purpose of KDE as a usability tool and had moved to providing 'eye-candy' and 'gee-whiz' features while making configurability more difficult. That wouldn't have been so bad if they had left some of the old components, like Hicolor-Classic icons, in their "improved" desktop instead of throwing them away.
I would add here doing this with lack of stability and enforcing it to the end user. While I like debugging, supporting the community or communities and contributing, I need most of all stability - when I turn on the computer I expect the GUI to behave the same way as it behaved the moment when I stopped it. This was the biggest draw back - neither Gnome nor KDE > v3 offer such stability as KDE3 (now TDE) does. Imagine I want to check mails and the mail client suddenly does not work or some feature of it does not behave the same, because ... whatever in the background failed to do so. Another example is this indexing that was starting automatically whenever you log in KDE4 and rendering the desktop useless. It is just pathethic!
Looking back, I realize that wonderful automatic indexing feature was probably the thing that drove me away from KDE4; and KDE users are still complaining about it, and the developers still refuse to provide an Off switch for it. :-( (I must confess that I subscribe to the KDE4 and Plasma lists just so I can watch the on-going train wreck.) :-)
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andre_debian＠numericable.fr -
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Felix Miata -
J Leslie Turriff -
Marvin Jones