www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
On Sunday 28 October 2018 21.57:42 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
I don't know. It's better that IBM buys than others, I guess. When Novell bought SuSE the results were not so bad.
However I never liked Red Hat that much, so the question for me is rather what effect it will have on Gnome and systemd dominance.
Luckily (I hope) no one can buy Debian...
As to Linux in the public market, it could be good for Linux in administrations, they would like the IBM backing. For the "average user" the reasons to prefer Windows are different: closed source (and only one system) makes drivers more available, games, and MS Office...
Thierry
On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 5:26 PM Thierry de Coulon tcoulon@decoulon.ch wrote:
I don't know. It's better that IBM buys than others, I guess. When Novell bought SuSE the results were not so bad.
As to Linux in the public market, it could be good for Linux in administrations, they would like the IBM backing.
It's interesting to me that anyone would bother to do so. IBM has been an explicit Linux contributor and beneficiary for a long time. All flavors run on IBM hardware quite well, a mutually beneficial relationship.
Hopefully some brain-dead MBA won't get it into his head to try to make "special" drivers so RedHat works better on IBM systems than other flavors. Bad, bad, bad idea.
However I never liked Red Hat that much, so the question for me is rather what effect it will have on Gnome and systemd dominance.
One can hope systemd dies utterly.
Thierry
Curt-
On Sunday 28 October 2018 17:26:18 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
On Sunday 28 October 2018 21.57:42 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
I don't know. It's better that IBM buys than others, I guess. When Novell bought SuSE the results were not so bad.
However I never liked Red Hat that much, so the question for me is rather what effect it will have on Gnome and systemd dominance.
Luckily (I hope) no one can buy Debian...
So do I, but now that a price has been offered, only the name of the next acquisition will change. That and the potential buyers ability to put cash where his mouth is.
As to Linux in the public market, it could be good for Linux in administrations, they would like the IBM backing. For the "average user" the reasons to prefer Windows are different: closed source (and only one system) makes drivers more available, games, and MS Office...
Thierry
I can't argue with that, I've heard many an MBA declare only windows, in the house simply because they have a target to point their legal team at if high priced programming they bought takes a head first dive into the toilet.
An MBA must have someone they can offload the blame to if their idea to buy a $20k a year program doesn't make them a multi-millionaire in a year.
The phrase TANSTAAFL is their worst nightmare. I rather think its one law that cannot be broken for free.
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Am Sonntag, 28. Oktober 2018 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
On Sunday 28 October 2018 21.57:42 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
I don't know. It's better that IBM buys than others, I guess. When Novell bought SuSE the results were not so bad.
However I never liked Red Hat that much, so the question for me is rather what effect it will have on Gnome and systemd dominance.
Luckily (I hope) no one can buy Debian...
oh well, i'd say it is already bought .. remember systemd? that undocumented pestilence is growing like ragweed.
As to Linux in the public market, it could be good for Linux in administrations, they would like the IBM backing. For the "average user" the reasons to prefer Windows are different: closed source (and only one system) makes drivers more available, games, and MS Office...
"Games" is the way to get users ... feed them when they are small, harvest later :-)
Thierry
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On Sunday 28 October 2018 16:57:42 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
Best question of the year.
Next best is what to become of amanda? Amanda was just bought by BETSOL, whomever they might be, and they've sent one of their folks to the amanda list to quell the talk of a fork. But so far all we've seen is talk, and the users, including me who has been using it for nearly 20 years, are getting nervous. They haven't even put the lead maintainer on their payroll, and the undertones are rising in volume.
I suppose at some point, debian will be an acquisition target as the commercial folks see it as something they can do a Red Hat with when Red Hat spun the Fedora as a free red hat, but they as expected used the fedora users as lab rats, trying new ways that often didn't work all that well. So I gave them feedback until I was tired of a half broken system all the time, and in about 2006 LinuxCNC was made as a respin of Ubuntu, but that petered out and went to debian in about 2012. Where it still is, while our developers are busting butt trying to get the performance needed out rt-prempt patches for the later 64 bit kernels, which are in fact sloths compared to the 32 bit patched versions in the 3.2.x releases. Much research at restoring that has been done, but its not yet been good enough to be accepted into mainline.
Steven R. has been a frequent contributer to the linux-rt list for quite a while, and here is his off the cuff talk on it from a couple days back, basically issueing you can and you cant's to the rest of the developers as they code up new pieces for the kernel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxJm-Ujipcg
There are some folks from red hat there on that list too.
Make of it what you can. IBM, like Dell, has over the last 2 decades made some quality hardware. So I expect the cash infusion may allow some of the oldtimers in North Carolina to retire, and new blood will be brought on board, not necessarily from the ranks. What effect, good or bad, that will have remains to be seen. Watching the stock market for fresh RHAT activity might be educational.
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Am Sonntag, 28. Oktober 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
On Sunday 28 October 2018 16:57:42 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
Best question of the year.
Next best is what to become of amanda? Amanda was just bought by BETSOL, whomever they might be, and they've sent one of their folks to the amanda list to quell the talk of a fork. But so far all we've seen is talk, and the users, including me who has been using it for nearly 20 years, are getting nervous. They haven't even put the lead maintainer on their payroll, and the undertones are rising in volume.
I suppose at some point, debian will be an acquisition target as the commercial folks see it as something they can do a Red Hat with when Red Hat spun the Fedora as a free red hat, but they as expected used the fedora users as lab rats, trying new ways that often didn't work all that well. So I gave them feedback until I was tired of a half broken system all the time, and in about 2006 LinuxCNC was made as a respin of Ubuntu, but that petered out and went to debian in about 2012. Where it still is, while our developers are busting butt trying to get the performance needed out rt-prempt patches for the later 64 bit kernels, which are in fact sloths compared to the 32 bit patched versions in the 3.2.x releases. Much research at restoring that has been done, but its not yet been good enough to be accepted into mainline.
Steven R. has been a frequent contributer to the linux-rt list for quite a while, and here is his off the cuff talk on it from a couple days back, basically issueing you can and you cant's to the rest of the developers as they code up new pieces for the kernel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxJm-Ujipcg
There are some folks from red hat there on that list too.
Make of it what you can. IBM, like Dell, has over the last 2 decades made some quality hardware. So I expect the cash infusion may allow some of the oldtimers in North Carolina to retire, and new blood will be brought on board, not necessarily from the ranks. What effect, good or bad, that will have remains to be seen. Watching the stock market for fresh RHAT activity might be educational.
Hi Gene!
I'm relieved that I'm nit the only one struggling with linux-rt - my latency numbers are horrible, no matter what hardware I use. But at least I managed to get linuxcnc + preempt-rt + trinity working on my raspberrypi3+. If you are interested, I can upload a rpi image for testing :-)
Nik
On Friday 02 November 2018 03:55:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Sonntag, 28. Oktober 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
On Sunday 28 October 2018 16:57:42 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
Best question of the year.
Next best is what to become of amanda? Amanda was just bought by BETSOL, whomever they might be, and they've sent one of their folks to the amanda list to quell the talk of a fork. But so far all we've seen is talk, and the users, including me who has been using it for nearly 20 years, are getting nervous. They haven't even put the lead maintainer on their payroll, and the undertones are rising in volume.
I suppose at some point, debian will be an acquisition target as the commercial folks see it as something they can do a Red Hat with when Red Hat spun the Fedora as a free red hat, but they as expected used the fedora users as lab rats, trying new ways that often didn't work all that well. So I gave them feedback until I was tired of a half broken system all the time, and in about 2006 LinuxCNC was made as a respin of Ubuntu, but that petered out and went to debian in about 2012. Where it still is, while our developers are busting butt trying to get the performance needed out rt-prempt patches for the later 64 bit kernels, which are in fact sloths compared to the 32 bit patched versions in the 3.2.x releases. Much research at restoring that has been done, but its not yet been good enough to be accepted into mainline.
Steven R. has been a frequent contributer to the linux-rt list for quite a while, and here is his off the cuff talk on it from a couple days back, basically issueing you can and you cant's to the rest of the developers as they code up new pieces for the kernel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxJm-Ujipcg
There are some folks from red hat there on that list too.
Make of it what you can. IBM, like Dell, has over the last 2 decades made some quality hardware. So I expect the cash infusion may allow some of the oldtimers in North Carolina to retire, and new blood will be brought on board, not necessarily from the ranks. What effect, good or bad, that will have remains to be seen. Watching the stock market for fresh RHAT activity might be educational.
Hi Gene!
I'm relieved that I'm nit the only one struggling with linux-rt - my latency numbers are horrible, no matter what hardware I use. But at least I managed to get linuxcnc + preempt-rt + trinity working on my raspberrypi3+. If you are interested, I can upload a rpi image for testing :-)
Nik
Nik. yes I'd be interested in that, although I am ATM, down one of my other machines & have about 75% of the stuff ordered to put the two BoB's in a separate box with hopefully better psu's. A $3 buck regulator died a horrible death, spitting epoxy off the top of the chip, and putting 35 volts on the 5 volt BoB supply buss for the few millisecs of the death throes. But the big lathe, running on an r-pi-3b is working well. But any improvements in latency would be appreciated. .075 milliseconds on the servo-thread is tolerable, but its pretty wide in terms of following error.
I've 32Gb sd's to put it on.
Am Freitag, 2. November 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
On Friday 02 November 2018 03:55:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Sonntag, 28. Oktober 2018 schrieb Gene Heskett:
On Sunday 28 October 2018 16:57:42 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
André
Best question of the year.
Next best is what to become of amanda? Amanda was just bought by BETSOL, whomever they might be, and they've sent one of their folks to the amanda list to quell the talk of a fork. But so far all we've seen is talk, and the users, including me who has been using it for nearly 20 years, are getting nervous. They haven't even put the lead maintainer on their payroll, and the undertones are rising in volume.
I suppose at some point, debian will be an acquisition target as the commercial folks see it as something they can do a Red Hat with when Red Hat spun the Fedora as a free red hat, but they as expected used the fedora users as lab rats, trying new ways that often didn't work all that well. So I gave them feedback until I was tired of a half broken system all the time, and in about 2006 LinuxCNC was made as a respin of Ubuntu, but that petered out and went to debian in about 2012. Where it still is, while our developers are busting butt trying to get the performance needed out rt-prempt patches for the later 64 bit kernels, which are in fact sloths compared to the 32 bit patched versions in the 3.2.x releases. Much research at restoring that has been done, but its not yet been good enough to be accepted into mainline.
Steven R. has been a frequent contributer to the linux-rt list for quite a while, and here is his off the cuff talk on it from a couple days back, basically issueing you can and you cant's to the rest of the developers as they code up new pieces for the kernel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxJm-Ujipcg
There are some folks from red hat there on that list too.
Make of it what you can. IBM, like Dell, has over the last 2 decades made some quality hardware. So I expect the cash infusion may allow some of the oldtimers in North Carolina to retire, and new blood will be brought on board, not necessarily from the ranks. What effect, good or bad, that will have remains to be seen. Watching the stock market for fresh RHAT activity might be educational.
Hi Gene!
I'm relieved that I'm nit the only one struggling with linux-rt - my latency numbers are horrible, no matter what hardware I use. But at least I managed to get linuxcnc + preempt-rt + trinity working on my raspberrypi3+. If you are interested, I can upload a rpi image for testing :-)
Nik
Nik. yes I'd be interested in that, although I am ATM, down one of my other machines & have about 75% of the stuff ordered to put the two BoB's in a separate box with hopefully better psu's. A $3 buck regulator died a horrible death, spitting epoxy off the top of the chip, and putting 35 volts on the 5 volt BoB supply buss for the few millisecs of the death throes. But the big lathe, running on an r-pi-3b is working well. But any improvements in latency would be appreciated. .075 milliseconds on the servo-thread is tolerable, but its pretty wide in terms of following error.
I've 32Gb sd's to put it on.
Hi Gene!
I finally managed to upload the compressed image. :-)
http://samhain.5gbfree.com/rpi3_tde_linuxcnc_rt_2018.11.06.img.xz.md5 http://samhain.5gbfree.com/rpi3_tde_linuxcnc_rt_2018.11.06.img.xz
$ md5sum rpi3_tde_linuxcnc_rt_2018.11.06.img.xz 2edd56042688bbb73639f76ad6fc9dce
Imagesize is ~ 1.6G (1742714332 bytes) compressed or ~ 7G uncomressed. TDE: English (default) / German, autologin as "pi"
In folder "~pi/linuxcnc-dev/" you'll find: - rpi-hal_gpio-calculator.sh : my tool to calculate the masks for gpio-stuff - linux : kernelesource - linuxcnc-dev : linuxcnc sources, compiled for RIP - linuxcnc : startscript for linuxcnc (also linked on desktop) - latency-histogram: same for latency-histogram
Linuxcnc config called "RaspberryPi/rpi3b-2050vel" is my testconfig.
The kernel and kernel parameters are from http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RPi3BPreemptRT , but I'm not sure if they are the holy grale. Currently I am compiling a stripped down kernel (maybe that will work better).
Oh, I disabled bluetooth and wifi.
Enjoy
Nik
On Friday 02 November 2018 03:55:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
Best question of the year :
The discussion about Linux to reach ~10% market shares and more, for home computers in the world some month ago, was that companies as RedHat and IBM, proposes an "easy" Linux.
Recently, this wish is on the success road, IBM bought RedHat.
Now, hope that IBM will materialize a good Linux system, able to be used by every one and not only a cloud Linux...
Good evening,
André
On Tuesday 06 November 2018 11:55:34 am andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
On Friday 02 November 2018 03:55:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
Best question of the year :
The discussion about Linux to reach ~10% market shares and more, for home computers in the world some month ago, was that companies as RedHat and IBM, proposes an "easy" Linux.
Recently, this wish is on the success road, IBM bought RedHat.
Now, hope that IBM will materialize a good Linux system, able to be used by every one and not only a cloud Linux...
"Easy Linux"
That’s pretty much the only thing that will ever increase *nix’s market share beyond the 2-10% it is now in the ‘home user’ demographic.
‘Cause let’s face it, if you’re asking ‘Mom’ to make decisions on partition structure or “ssh server” during the install, you’ve lost the entire ‘home user’ demographic...
As to IBM buying RH? IBM’s one of the odder multi-national conglomerates. They have been known to support ‘stuff’ for the good of mankind (or at least IT-kind). But, they also do weirdness like selling their notebook and x86 server lines to Chinese Lenovo, which completely destroyed their “one stop shop” / “soup to nuts” capabilities.
Hopefully, as mentioned earlier, IBM will dissemble systemd, as they pretty much do understand the concept of ‘up time,’ but... Given they didn’t listen to their sales exec’s on the x86 stuff, who knows?
Michael
On 2018-11-06 13:41:45 Michael wrote:
On Tuesday 06 November 2018 11:55:34 am andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
On Friday 02 November 2018 03:55:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
Best question of the year :
The discussion about Linux to reach ~10% market shares and more, for home computers in the world some month ago, was that companies as RedHat and IBM, proposes an "easy" Linux.
Recently, this wish is on the success road, IBM bought RedHat.
Now, hope that IBM will materialize a good Linux system, able to be used by every one and not only a cloud Linux...
"Easy Linux"
That’s pretty much the only thing that will ever increase *nix’s market share beyond the 2-10% it is now in the ‘home user’ demographic.
‘Cause let’s face it, if you’re asking ‘Mom’ to make decisions on partition structure or “ssh server” during the install, you’ve lost the entire ‘home user’ demographic...
As to IBM buying RH? IBM’s one of the odder multi-national conglomerates. They have been known to support ‘stuff’ for the good of mankind (or at least IT-kind). But, they also do weirdness like selling their notebook and x86 server lines to Chinese Lenovo, which completely destroyed their “one stop shop” / “soup to nuts” capabilities.
IBM's attitude toward Linux is very much contrary to that of the rest of their product line. I keep hoping that they will some day release a back-level version of their Mainframe VM OS for use by hobbyists; that would be a boon to their efforts to stem the tide of migration off their proprietary platform, but they don't seem to recognize the power of familiarizing potential users with their proprietary products.
Hopefully, as mentioned earlier, IBM will dissemble systemd, as they pretty much do understand the concept of ‘up time,’ but... Given they didn’t listen to their sales exec’s on the x86 stuff, who knows?
Michael
On Tuesday 06 November 2018 03:01:22 pm J Leslie Turriff wrote:
I keep hoping that they will some day release a back-level version of their Mainframe VM OS for use by hobbyists; that would be a boon to their efforts to stem the tide of migration off their proprietary platform, but they don't seem to recognize the power of familiarizing potential users with their proprietary products.
So way off topic...
I think the non-release of the Mainframe OS is probably more from the point that the pool of skilled consultants for IBM mainframes would drop doing it. IBM mainframe consultant rates back in the '90s sucked hard compared to Tandem (acquired by Compaq then HP) and the 'good' ones even then were bailing to other platforms.
If the 3rd world low cost shops had access to the OS, then I'd guess the rates would get trashed just like PHP, and quite a few other languages/CMSes, have been trashed over the last 10+- years or so.
First time business owners don't understand the huge difference in work ethic between (the majority of) 1st world labor and 3rd world labor, so... rates drop...
Actually I'm still surprised mainframes exist in the age of things like autoconfiguration ClusterKnoppix for Beowulf clusters, so maybe IBM is going down that route with the RH purchase?
On 2018-11-06 15:40:56 Michael wrote:
On Tuesday 06 November 2018 03:01:22 pm J Leslie Turriff wrote:
I keep hoping that they will some day release a back-level version of their Mainframe VM OS for use by hobbyists; that would be a boon to their efforts to stem the tide of migration off their proprietary platform, but they don't seem to recognize the power of familiarizing potential users with their proprietary products.
So way off topic...
I think the non-release of the Mainframe OS is probably more from the point that the pool of skilled consultants for IBM mainframes would drop doing it. IBM mainframe consultant rates back in the '90s sucked hard compared to Tandem (acquired by Compaq then HP) and the 'good' ones even then were bailing to other platforms.
If the 3rd world low cost shops had access to the OS, then I'd guess the rates would get trashed just like PHP, and quite a few other languages/CMSes, have been trashed over the last 10+- years or so.
First time business owners don't understand the huge difference in work ethic between (the majority of) 1st world labor and 3rd world labor, so... rates drop...
Actually I'm still surprised mainframes exist in the age of things like autoconfiguration ClusterKnoppix for Beowulf clusters, so maybe IBM is going down that route with the RH purchase?
They still exist because of the massive costs of migration of legacy application software written since the 1960s are prohibitive.
On Tuesday 06 November 2018 12:55:34 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
On Friday 02 November 2018 03:55:53 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Is it a good new ? Can this new make reviving Linux in the public market, or only in the professional cloud market ?
Best question of the year :
The discussion about Linux to reach ~10% market shares and more, for home computers in the world some month ago, was that companies as RedHat and IBM, proposes an "easy" Linux.
Recently, this wish is on the success road, IBM bought RedHat.
Now, hope that IBM will materialize a good Linux system, able to be used by every one and not only a cloud Linux...
Good evening,
André
One could also look at it as IBM taking clues from M$, buy up the competition, then close it down. However IBM has been very supportive of linux in the past in terms of throwing code over the fence, so I don't see it happening. I think we'll see a different linux, with a customer face that looks more and more like windows, so the conversion of the customers machinery will work evermore like windows, just to ease the pain of the customers learning curve. Its not a problem for me since I've only had one xp machine in my whole life, and when I found the windows driver for the wifi in that lappy was just as broken as the linux driver, the xp got blown away in favor of Mandrake. And I've never looked back, having oozed into a multitasking/multiuser os called os9 at in about 1984, then to a family of amiga's and on to RedHat 5.0 in 1998. So one could say I've never gotten used to windows and its miriad of bad habits.
So while I haven't had a Red Hat based install since I bailed out at about fedora 2, too many rats died from their "experiments". Now I've been running debian wheezy on all my machine drivers. OLd, out of support but it just keeps on running.
Overall, I think its going to be good.
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On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 21:57:42 +0100 andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
www.engadget.com/2018/10/28/ibm-buys-red-hat/
Is it a good new ?
Better IBM than Oracle. IBM had Linux in their attention for a long time and it was usually a good cooperation, with a high-performance servers running Linux and IBM software. And some of their software has compatibility back to 1960s, it's good that it can be run in a modern Linux architecture. This is an advantage for existing IBM users, so I think they will not try to shut down open alternatives in databases and management, at least when the "compatibility buffer" is enough.
And RHEL devs will probably not wear oversleeves like these old-timer accountants IBM is traditionally associated with :). MCbx
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