6 Aug
2018
6 Aug
'18
1:57 a.m.
Hi All,
Based upon many valuable comments and shared thoughts from this list, I’m find
myself in the anti systemd group.
With this pretty much being the best, non-biased, comparison of Debian (or any
systemd OS) and Devuan (e.g. a non systemd OS) that I found to solidify my
opinions on systemd:
https://blog.ungleich.ch/en-us/cms/blog/2017/12/10/the-importance-of-devuan/
Do Note: The author does use an [overly] dramatic introduction, so please do
read all 878 words of his article. I believe you’ll find the considerations
his conclusion brings up well worth the 5-10 minutes of your time it takes to
get there.
And then Bill commented in another thread:
On Sunday 05 August 2018 11:48:18 am William Morder wrote:
I've never been able to do a
successful installation directly from a Devuan disc, but must install
Debian, then Devuan, then TDE, then uninstall LibreOffice and install
OpenOffice, etc. And cannot do net install here, so I need to use a live
disc. If my circumstances were different, then I would probably take a
different approach.
Which lead me to this:
Linked From: https://devuan.org/os/partners/devuan-distros
Exe GNU/Linux
Devuan-based Live Linux Images with Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/exegnulinux/
Exe GNU/Linux live images are based on Devuan and use Trinity
Desktop Environment (TDE). Versions for i386 and amd64 are available.
see [1] also
Bill might this solve your issue(s)?
Now finally my question(s)... :)
- Is anyone using Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ TDE installed?
- - If so any issues?
Ah, never mind the next Q:
“Devuan package repositories are exclusive. Other repositories, including
Debian’s, should NOT be used directly.”
- Can external (deb?/ppa?) packages be added to Devuan similar to Ubuntu?
- - Would you use the corresponding Debian release?
Example:
# cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/opera-stable.list
# This file makes sure that Opera Browser is kept up-to-date
# as part of regular system upgrades
deb https://deb.opera.com/opera-stable/ stable non-free #Opera Browser
(final
releases)
- So the only choice for Opera, LibreOffice, etc., is to manually install from
a downloaded .deb?
Okay, last question...
From the standpoint of wanting the leanest system possible with only software
I’ve specifically installed:
- Would it make the most sense to install the Exe GNU/Linux above, then
upgrade in place to Devuan 2 and then TDE R14.0.5?
- Or is there a way to install just a bare bones, console only Devuan?
I do the second with dedicated servers under CentOS 6 all the time, but it’s
the hosting firm that’s doing the initial system build to ‘base’ (and of
course each likes to call it a different name, ‘base,’ ‘bare,’ ‘init’), which
has much less overhead than the published RH/CentOS ‘minimal’ install
profile. So, I’m guessing it can be done, but the Devuan website doesn’t
have much beyond how to do a ‘full’ install.
If the second method is the way to go, does anyone have a favorite write up on
how it’s done with Debian I can use to guide me through doing the same with
Devuan?
Best and Thanks!
Michel
[1] Referential Note:
https://sourceforge.net/p/exegnulinux/discussion/general/thread/fdff84f2/?l…
Mike Hunt - 2018-05-05
Hello,
I have been running this distro for a while now, but after some months became
puzzled over why I didn't receive any single update. I found out that
Devuan's Update and Security repos were not added anywhere; after adding them
the updates tickled in. Is this an oversight?
6 Aug
6 Aug
4:06 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Thoughts on Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ only TDE (-systemd)?
On Sunday 05 August 2018 11:48:18 am William Morder
wrote:
> I've never been able to do a
> successful installation directly from a Devuan disc,...
>
Never been able either!
I don't understand how works their installer (live cd), I've never been
able to use it the way I wanted Devuan to be installed (with two disks).
I could install Devuan with their traditional install cd (with the
Debian installer if I'm not mistaken) but none of my network cards
where working, both needed an extra firmware.
One of the card had a ralink chipset so I picked the firmware with
ralink in the title, well wrong choice! I should have taken an other
(don't remenber the name) instead with a bunch of packaged non-free
firmwares.
My cards were working but no network, Devuan uses wicd, I also had to
install manually several wicd packages with for some of them, their
dependencies. I can't remener how many time I had moved the thumb
drive from the laptop to the station and had to Google between them.
If I recall correctly, their live cds bundle the non-free firmwares
but when it comes to fill in the 'sources.list' file with their repos,
that doesn't work because between the moment they wrote their installer
and now, the adresses of the repos have changed. I had to adjust that
file manually with the new repos, repos that are differents with Devuan
jessie and Devuan ascii (I had installed jessie).
For someone who's not used to Debian, installing Devuan on the station
was quite an exercice, that, I'm not in the mood to do it again...if
ever!
Cheers.
7:28 a.m.
Michael wrote:
Based upon many valuable comments and shared thoughts
from this list, I’m
find myself in the anti systemd group.
I was going there too, but found out that I can install sysv package and use
init as init process. Since then all my issues are gone. systemd is in the
back, but I guess not used at all.
I only once had to reboot after upgrade, because when systemd upgraded it
somehow respawned itself as init process, but good that I did it on a test
system, so that I knew what is to expect on the real one.
regards
8:48 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Thoughts on Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ only TDE (-systemd)?
On Mon, 06 Aug 2018 09:28:54 +0200
deloptes <deloptes(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I was going there too, but found out that I can install sysv package and
use init as init process. Since then all my issues are gone. systemd is
in the back, but I guess not used at all.
I only once had to reboot after upgrade, because when systemd upgraded it
somehow respawned itself as init process, but good that I did it on a test
system, so that I knew what is to expect on the real one.
To prevent systemd respawn on upgrades, create a file
in /etc/apt/preferences.d/ with following content
Package: systemd-sysv
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: -1
--
Nick Koretsky (nick.koretsky(a)gmail.com)
4:36 p.m.
Nick Koretsky wrote:
To prevent systemd respawn on upgrades, create a file
in /etc/apt/preferences.d/ with following content
Package: systemd-sysv
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: -1
Thanks - I have already forgotten that I have already done so :). As I
checked exactly the same file was exactly there :)
Not sure if I got it from you or someone else, but looks like this is the
solution.
I must admit with sysv init, everything works like a charm. I just can't
confirm this for a laptop anymore as I had to stop using one with linux,
but server and workstations are doing great.
regards
8:06 a.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Thoughts on Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ only TDE (-systemd)?
Hello Michael,
welcome to the club! ;-)
Am Montag 06 August 2018 schrieb Michael:
Hi All,
[...]
- Is anyone using Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ TDE
installed?
- - If so any issues?
I'm using Devuan ascii with TDE R14.0.5 and it's generally running fine. No
major issues I'm aware of.
Ah, never mind the next Q:
“Devuan package repositories are exclusive. Other repositories, including
Debian’s, should NOT be used directly.”
Meaning: not using Debian's own repositories (they are mirrored/merged into
Devuan). With any other third party repository with debian packages matching
the according Devuan (Debian) version it's the same like with Debian.
- Can external (deb?/ppa?) packages be added to Devuan
similar to Ubuntu?
- - Would you use the corresponding Debian release?
You can. Just like with Debian. And yes, Devuan ascii corresponds to Debian
stretch. Devuan is basically Debian without systemd and a few packages stripped
of their respective dependencies. You may have issues with new software which
depends on systemd or related stuff, but not with TDE, at least not because of
lacking systemd.
Example:
> # cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/opera-stable.list
> # This file makes sure that Opera Browser is kept up-to-date
> # as part of regular system upgrades
>
> deb https://deb.opera.com/opera-stable/ stable non-free #Opera Browser
I haven't used Opera since more than ten years ago so I can't tell, but you can
try.
- So the only choice for Opera, LibreOffice, etc., is
to manually install
from a downloaded .deb?
When it's not in the official repository, yes. With Opera you would use Opera's
repository, I guess. LibreOffice you can install from the official
repositories, so no need for an extra repository, unless you want to use a
version which is not in the official repositories.
Okay, last question...
From the standpoint of wanting the leanest system possible with only
software I’ve specifically installed:
I'd recommend netinstall iso.
- Would it make the most sense to install the Exe
GNU/Linux above, then
upgrade in place to Devuan 2 and then TDE R14.0.5?
I think it's easier to install Devuan ascii and then TDE on top of it. That's
what I did and it was a smooth install.
- Or is there a way to install just a bare bones,
console only Devuan?
See above.
If the second method is the way to go, does anyone
have a favorite write up
on how it’s done with Debian I can use to guide me through doing the same
with Devuan?
I'm not familiar with all subtleties of different versions and differences
between Debian/Devuan, but I think it is almost the same.
HTH.
Kind regards,
Stefan
4:44 p.m.
Stefan Krusche wrote:
+1
I install minimal system from net install usb/cd/debootstrap and then
install TDE on top, which pulls whatever it needs.
Just take absolute minimum from the netinstall - especially desktop or
server related is what you do not need! You can add stuff always
afterwards.
Once you get all the minimum that fits your requirements setup and running -
just dump the packages list so you do not need to reselect/readd later when
you need to install fresh.
regards
- Would it
make the most sense to install the Exe GNU/Linux above, then
upgrade in place to Devuan 2 and then TDE R14.0.5?
I think it's easier to install Devuan ascii and then TDE on top of it.
That's what I did and it was a smooth install. 
7:08 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Thoughts on Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ only TDE (-systemd)?
On Monday 06 August 2018 08:44:24 am deloptes wrote:
Stefan Krusche wrote:
+1
I install minimal system from net install usb/cd/debootstrap and then
install TDE on top, which pulls whatever it needs.
Just take absolute minimum from the netinstall - especially desktop or
server related is what you do not need! You can add stuff always
afterwards.
Once you get all the minimum that fits your requirements setup and running
- just dump the packages list so you do not need to reselect/readd later
when you need to install fresh.
regards
+1
First Devuan install, netinstall in a Vbox. Not neccessarily equal to an
install on hardware for testing hardware compatability. No hickups, TDE
installs/works perfectly with Devuan.
I use the same methods as I use for Debian. Minimum = base + standard, do not
select the task "desktop", it installs "desktop-base" TDE has its
own "desktop-base-trinity".
Have the Trinity sources list available, mine is on my network, I use rsync to
copy the file. A usb key would be easier to use.
Cat the two files together, then edit the sources.list, if you need to
use "contrib" & "non-free", non-free wireless driver for laptop
comes to
mind. or copy paste the Trinity repos,
A BIG plus for Devuan, during the install I had an option to add "console
functionality" (approx), I added it not knowing exactly what it was, one
feature, it added "gpm" so copy paste will work from the terminal. Also,
afaikt, "rsync" is installed in Devuan but not Stretch. I use both in my
install.
One use case that is not covered, installing without having the Trinity
sources.list available. Another + for Devuan, it installs "links2", simple
cli web browser, use it to fetch the repos from Trinity web site.
I just realized this is definately not for the inexperienced. Just don't use
Ubuntu to run TDE :-). Use Debian,Devuan and the lightest graphical install.
lxde & xfce are in "tasksel",
greg
- Would
it make the most sense to install the Exe GNU/Linux above, then
upgrade in place to Devuan 2 and then TDE R14.0.5?
I think it's easier to install Devuan ascii and then TDE on top of it.
That's what I did and it was a smooth install.
7:24 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Re: Thoughts on Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ only TDE (-systemd)?
On Monday 06 August 2018 11:08:39 am Greg Madden wrote:
On Monday 06 August 2018 08:44:24 am deloptes wrote:
Correction, it is "console functionality", it is one of the tasks in "task
select"
greg
Stefan Krusche wrote:
+1
I install minimal system from net install usb/cd/debootstrap and then
install TDE on top, which pulls whatever it needs.
Just take absolute minimum from the netinstall - especially desktop or
server related is what you do not need! You can add stuff always
afterwards.
Once you get all the minimum that fits your requirements setup and
running - just dump the packages list so you do not need to
reselect/readd later when you need to install fresh.
regards
+1
First Devuan install, netinstall in a Vbox. Not neccessarily equal to an
install on hardware for testing hardware compatability. No hickups, TDE
installs/works perfectly with Devuan.
I use the same methods as I use for Debian. Minimum = base + standard, do
not select the task "desktop", it installs "desktop-base" TDE has
its
own "desktop-base-trinity".
Have the Trinity sources list available, mine is on my network, I use rsync
to copy the file. A usb key would be easier to use.
Cat the two files together, then edit the sources.list, if you need to
use "contrib" & "non-free", non-free wireless driver for laptop
comes to
mind. or copy paste the Trinity repos,
A BIG plus for Devuan, during the install I had an option to add "console
functionality" (approx), I added it not knowing exactly what it was, one
feature, it added "gpm" so copy paste will work from the terminal. Also,
afaikt, "rsync" is installed in Devuan but not Stretch. I use both in my
install.
One use case that is not covered, installing without having the Trinity
sources.list available. Another + for Devuan, it installs "links2", simple
cli web browser, use it to fetch the repos from Trinity web site.
I just realized this is definately not for the inexperienced. Just don't
use Ubuntu to run TDE :-). Use Debian,Devuan and the lightest graphical
install. lxde & xfce are in "tasksel",
greg - Would
it make the most sense to install the Exe GNU/Linux above,
then upgrade in place to Devuan 2 and then TDE R14.0.5?
I think it's easier to install Devuan ascii and then TDE on top of it.
That's what I did and it was a smooth install. 
1:22 p.m.
New subject: [trinity-users] Thoughts on Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ only TDE (-systemd)?
On 08/05/2018 06:57 PM, Michael wrote:
Hi All,
Based upon many valuable comments and shared thoughts from this list, I’m find
myself in the anti systemd group.
With this pretty much being the best, non-biased, comparison of Debian (or any
systemd OS) and Devuan (e.g. a non systemd OS) that I found to solidify my
opinions on systemd:
https://blog.ungleich.ch/en-us/cms/blog/2017/12/10/the-importance-of-devuan/
Do Note: The author does use an [overly] dramatic introduction, so please do
read all 878 words of his article. I believe you’ll find the considerations
his conclusion brings up well worth the 5-10 minutes of your time it takes to
get there.
Welcome Michael!
Yes indeed upstream linux is a fright, could cause some to switch to
Slackware. ;) Yes, the promise of faster startup & shutdown and we get
"wait 1:30 for process to complete".
Things Devuan could use some help with are, having its own kernel, its
own certs, maybe even a host file, etc. Never enough security.
And then Bill commented in another thread:
On Sunday 05 August 2018 11:48:18 am William Morder wrote:
I install using the ASCII net-install iso and it's just the core install
with No added packages. Reboot, update, add TDE repos, update, install
TDE key, install TDE and any other packages I want. Now I can ctrl+d to
user and $ startx.
deb http://mirror.xcer.cz/trinity-sb/ stretch main-r14 deps-r14
deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii main contrib non-free
deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-security main contrib
non-free
deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-updates main contrib non-free
I've never been able to do a
successful installation directly from a Devuan disc, but must install
Debian, then Devuan, then TDE, then uninstall LibreOffice and install
OpenOffice, etc. And cannot do net install here, so I need to use a live
disc. If my circumstances were different, then I would probably take a
different approach.
Which lead me to this:
Linked From: https://devuan.org/os/partners/devuan-distros
Exe GNU/Linux
Devuan-based Live Linux Images with Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE)
https://sourceforge.net/projects/exegnulinux/
Exe GNU/Linux live images are based on Devuan and use Trinity
Desktop Environment (TDE). Versions for i386 and amd64 are available.
see [1] also
Bill might this solve your issue(s)? Now finally my question(s)... :)
- Is anyone using Devuan 2.0.0 (ASCII) w/ TDE installed?
- - If so any issues?
For me and other HDMI audio/video users there have been bugs, but recent
updates seem to have solved those bugs. These HDMI bugs effect all
linux of the same version from what I see, Slackware 14.2, Debian
Stretch or Devuan ASCII. But things are much better now. Things are
getting better all the time.. I use Devuan Jessie or Slackware 14.0
it's the most stable for my audio/video. But you will find TDE on ASCII
very nice, I'm using it now fully updated watching a movie on my
multimedia computer on the big screen smart tv and it's working swell
and typing this post on this computer with no problems. :)
Ah, never mind the next Q:
“Devuan package repositories are exclusive. Other repositories, including
Debian’s, should NOT be used directly.”
- Can external (deb?/ppa?) packages be added to Devuan similar to Ubuntu?
- - Would you use the corresponding Debian release?
Example:
Do what you think you have to do. :) You can use 'gdebi' to install
downloaded packages or use 'dpkg'.
# cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/opera-stable.list
# This file makes sure that Opera Browser is kept up-to-date
# as part of regular system upgrades
deb https://deb.opera.com/opera-stable/ stable non-free #Opera Browser
(final
releases)
- So the only choice for Opera, LibreOffice, etc., is to manually install from
a downloaded .deb? Okay, last question...
From the standpoint of wanting the leanest system possible with only software
I’ve specifically installed:
- Would it make the most sense to install the Exe GNU/Linux above, then
upgrade in place to Devuan 2 and then TDE R14.0.5?
- Or is there a way to install just a bare bones, console only Devuan?
I covered this above, but Exe Linux is another way to go but not needed
an defiantly not bare bones.
--
Jimmy Johnson
Devuan ASCII - Trinity TDE-R14.0.5 - Intel P8400 - EXT4 at sda6
Registered Linux User #380263
2098
days inactive
2098
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
deloptes -
Greg Madden -
gregory guy -
Jimmy Johnson -
Michael -
Nick Koretsky -
Stefan Krusche