Sounds like the hard drive is starting to go. Is it making any noise?

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Baron <baron(a)linuxmaniac.net>

> Hi Guys, > > An annoying issue has appeared ! > I'm running Q4OS, Trinity Desktop on an AMD dual core machine > with 2Gb ram and 500Gb HDD. > > Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a > black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. > 1:30." If I Ctrl Alt Del the machine restarts with the same > screen and message. If I let it continue, I then get a page of > text with "Ctrl D" to continue, "Or enter Root Password to Login" > Using "Ctrl D" everything just stops and I have to hard boot the > machine, It then goes back to the start job again. > If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what > I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my > normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the > machine, everything comes up as normal. > > I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help ! > > Thanks Guys: > -- > Best Regards: > Baron > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- >---- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@ > lists.pearsoncomputing.net > For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists. > pearsoncomputing.net > Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users. > pearsoncomputing.net/ > Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity. > pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Friday 16 March 2018 15.13:31 Baron wrote: (...) This has, I'm pretty sure, to do with systemd. I got that several time and yes, when you don't know about it it's quite difficult to solve. Most often it has to do with some partition having changed UUID. Did you modify your partition layout, or simply reformat one? I've seen such messages linked to nfs shares too. Anyway, the first thing is to identify what the job is running for, then we should be able to debug. Thierry

Hi Thierry, Thank you for your reply. Question: Where could I find how this process is triggered ? Thanks: Re Previous post: I'm going to have to get another backup device. 58Gb is too much for DVD's.

Question: Where could I find how this process is triggered ?

If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the machine, everything comes up as normal.

I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help !

Baron composed on 2018-03-16 14:13 (UTC): Instead of startx, try journalctl | grep failed and see if it reports what failed.

As others suggested, the problem is a systemd race condition. Did this start after an update to the current initrd, or after a update that installed a new kernel? Do you have a boot menu that allows you to select to boot with an older kernel, which if selected behaves normally? If so, an initrd rebuild might make the problem go away. If Q4OS is a Plymouth user, you might try disabling it by adding to cmdline plymouth.enable=0

With or without plymouth, if you remove "quiet" from the cmdline, you might be able as boot proceeds to spot the initial mention of the start job that is failing.

Hi Guys, An annoying issue has appeared ! I'm running Q4OS, Trinity Desktop on an AMD dual core machine with 2Gb ram and 500Gb HDD. Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. 1:30." If I Ctrl Alt Del the machine restarts with the same screen and message. If I let it continue, I then get a page of text with "Ctrl D" to continue, "Or enter Root Password to Login" Using "Ctrl D" everything just stops and I have to hard boot the machine, It then goes back to the start job again. If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the machine, everything comes up as normal. I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help ! Thanks Guys:

Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: no need to do so. just install ii  sysv-rc                               2.88dsf-59.9                               all          System-V-like runlevel change mechanism ii  sysvinit-core                         2.88dsf-59.9                               amd64        System-V-like init utilities ii  sysvinit-utils                        2.88dsf-59.9                               amd64        System-V-like utilities trash systemd-sysv and reboot if you keep systemd-sysv add in /etc/default/grub GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT ..... init=/lib/sysvinit/init and update-initramfs but it could be also a disk issue or unclean fs - probably you don't use ext4 and/or root is setup to remount ro on error boot from rescue and fsck

On Friday 16 March 2018 10:13:31 Baron wrote: That waddles and quacks like an e2fsck, and may be indicative of a failing hard drive. Get a report from it with smartctl.

https://www.smartmontools.org/

[...] Will this work for an i386 machine, as well? I did try installing Devuan, but without success (as it seems the process used by their installation disc wants to overwrite my home folder); I also gave exegnulinux, but that also was unsatisfactory.

My current system is Debian Jessie, and runs pretty much like I want, except for some minor bugs. My biggest complaint is systemd, and I really want to go back to using sysvinit. Also: I wonder if it is possible to switch to Devuan without doing a complete reinstallation? i.e., after changing over to sysvinit, can I enable Devuan repositories (and disable Debian), then do something like sudo apt-get dist-upgrade or whatever? Bill

Sorry should have been clearer apt-get install smartmontools

Hi Guys, A quick run of "smartctl /dev/sda -a" gives me no errors. Log follows:- === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Maxtor DiamondMax 10 (SATA/300) Device Model: Maxtor 6V200E0 Serial Number: V40KPSSG LU WWN Device Id: 0 150500 7da7feb4f Firmware Version: VA111630 User Capacity: 203,928,109,056 bytes [203 GB] Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13/1532D revision 0 Local Time is: Fri Mar 16 20:22:57 2018 GMT SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled I thought that this disk was 500Gb, it says above 203Gb, or is that value the used space. It shows 458Gb + 25Gb in "My Computer" It also shows the 458Gb partition as sdf1. === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x80) Offline data collection activity was never started. Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run. Total time to complete Offline data collection: ( 4622) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. No Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. General Purpose Logging supported. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 90) minutes. SCT capabilities: (0x0021) SCT Status supported. SCT Data Table supported. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 32 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 208 208 063 Pre-fail Always - 13404 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 75 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 253 253 063 Pre-fail Always - 0 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 211 000 Old_age Always - 0 8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0027 251 240 187 Pre-fail Always - 54359 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 251 251 000 Old_age Always - 718 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 157 Pre-fail Always - 0 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x002b 253 252 223 Pre-fail Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 252 252 000 Old_age Always - 648 189 High_Fly_Writes 0x003a 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 060 060 000 Old_age Always - 40 (Min/Max 13/40) 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 253 253 000 Old_age Always - 0 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0032 034 253 000 Old_age Always - 40 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 1132 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 253 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0008 199 199 000 Old_age Offline - 0 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 202 Data_Address_Mark_Errs 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 203 Run_Out_Cancel 0x000b 253 252 180 Pre-fail Always - 0 204 Soft_ECC_Correction 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 205 Thermal_Asperity_Rate 0x000a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 207 Spin_High_Current 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 208 Spin_Buzz 0x002a 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 210 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 211 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 212 Unknown_Attribute 0x0032 253 252 000 Old_age Always - 0 SMART Error Log Version: 1 No Errors Logged SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t] SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

On Friday 16 March 2018 15.13:31 Baron wrote: (...) This has, I'm pretty sure, to do with systemd. I got that several time and yes, when you don't know about it it's quite difficult to solve. Most often it has to do with some partition having changed UUID. Did you modify your partition layout, or simply reformat one? I've seen such messages linked to nfs shares too. Anyway, the first thing is to identify what the job is running for, then we should be able to debug. Thierry

https://www.smartmontools.org/

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:22 PM, Baron <baron(a)linuxmaniac.net> wrote: > Hi Gene, Thank you for your reply, > > On Friday 16 March 2018 17:44:08 Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Friday 16 March 2018 10:13:31 Baron wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > > > > > An annoying issue has appeared ! > > > I'm running Q4OS, Trinity Desktop on an AMD dual core machine > > > with 2Gb ram and 500Gb HDD. > > > > > > Problem: On boot up, maybe every second or third time, I get a > > > black screen with "[*** ] Start job running - ~0.XX seconds. > > > 1:30." If I Ctrl Alt Del the machine restarts with the same > > > screen and message. If I let it continue, I then get a page of > > > text with "Ctrl D" to continue, "Or enter Root Password to > > > Login" Using "Ctrl D" everything just stops and I have to hard > > > boot the machine, It then goes back to the start job again. > > > If I login with the root password, I get pages and pages of what > > > I think maybe logs. At the end of this if I "StartX" I get my > > > normal desktop. At this point if I logout and hard boot the > > > machine, everything comes up as normal. > > > > > > I haven't a clue what is going on here... Help ! > > > > > > Thanks Guys: > > > > That waddles and quacks like an e2fsck, and may be indicative of a > > failing hard drive. Get a report from it with smartctl. > > I can't find "smartctrl" on this machine, is it something that I > have to install ? > > Thanks: > -- > Best Regards: > Baron > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe@ > lists.pearsoncomputing.net > For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help@lists. > pearsoncomputing.net > Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users. > pearsoncomputing.net/ > Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity. > pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

Am Freitag, 16. März 2018 schrieb William Morder: exactly. that's a good way not to loose your data :-) Space is cheap. Anyhow, you most likely will never use swap. And /boot does not need to be on a seperate partition, just keep it on /. You can always resize/create/erase partitions with gparted (puppylinux comes in handy for this), so it essentilly does not matter with what size you start, you can always change that later. 20GB for / is OK, make the rest /home. But before installing a new OS, please copy /home/your-user to /home/copy-of-your-user - and check twice that you use the right partition :-) > Thanks for your advice, > > Bill > > > > My current system is Debian Jessie, and runs pretty much like I want, > > > except for some minor bugs. My biggest complaint is systemd, and I > > > really want to go back to using sysvinit. > > > > > > Also: I wonder if it is possible to switch to Devuan without doing a > > > complete reinstallation? i.e., after changing over to sysvinit, can I > > > enable Devuan repositories (and disable Debian), then do something > > > like sudo apt-get dist-upgrade > > > or whatever? > > > > > > Bill > > > > You can move from debian jessie to devuan jessie without problems, just > > follow the guide > > https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/stable-jessie-announce-052517 section > > "Upgrade". When you do the upgrade, please do it on a console, not on a > > X11 terminal. > > > > Nik >

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If anybody has anything to offer - for instance, how to make any computer boot from that flash drive? - I would be most grateful, as the experiment has been mostly successful otherwise. Bill

On Friday 16 March 2018 20:46:11 Glen Cunningham wrote: Yes, I tried several versions of Slackware: Slax, Salix, Slackware proper, and a few others (I think) that I can't remember, including, I believe, one that had Trinity already installed. Now, this was a few years ago, and maybe my computer skills have improved since then, but that didn't work for me. Slackware systems appeal to me in theory, as Frankensteins are not such a problem (or so I hear); but in practice, I could not get a Slackware system to work for me.

Is this for when you are using a live CD or DVD? Am I right? Bill

[...] Also - one of those bugs - I cannot start gparted (or any gnome application) as root. I've tried tdesu and gksu. The Trinity sudo works okay for TDE programs, but the gksu always rejects my password, even though I am sure of the password. This is also a problem when I do a new installation. I can only get admin privileges by sudo or su when I am in a shell; and except for the shell, it's not until after I've installed the Trinity packages (especially the Trinity sudo packages) that I can do anything as root. It would be nice to be able to resize the root partition (assuming I won't lose information in the home partition ... but I've got a fresh backup, anyway). Otherwise, I will proceed with a system reinstallation at some point, and resize partitions then.

Thanks for any guidance here. I can generally do partitioning and system installations in my sleep (and often have done), but this problem with sudo (mentioned by myself and others elsewhere) is a pain in the *ma-hony*. Bill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

[...] I have discovered that some computers won't boot from USB sticks. And yes, I am running i386, so 32 bit it is. However, I don't have UEFI, because I built this thing out of parts. A friend of mine turned a laptop into a brick by trying to install a Linux system on a machine that had UEFI enabled. This sounds like the opposite problem: the iso image is made for UEFI machines, but I don't want that (at least, not yet). Will that be a problem?

I pulled the one I gave out of "you > know where". Blame it on oldtimers...

There is another possibility I should have mentioned. If your sata data cables are red, theres something in the red dye that destroys the cable in 4 or 5 years. pull the covers so you can see the cable(s) and give them a gentle push with a stick, after putting a tail -fn50 on the syslog. If the log blows up when you do the stick bit for a 1/4" movement, its time for new cables, hopefully not red ones. This has been a problem for cables with that dye since the mid 70's of the last century when the J.A.Pan company started using it in their cb radio microphone cables. You can cut the red wire off 1/2" from the end that has broken, and pour the copper out of the red jacketed conductors plastic sleeve as a dark brown powder. Its a very poor conductor in that state.

In addition to being an oldtimer at 83, I am also a C.E.T. with 68+ years of chaseing electrons for a living.

On Saturday 17 March 2018 03:08:21 Baron wrote: It feels good for once to be the youngster in the group. (I just turned 60 about a month ago.) I am sad to say that, though reasonably healthy, I am also starting to feel my age. Worse yet, I am surrounded by people who believe that life ends at about age 35. This is some interesting and useful information about SATA cables, as all of mine are red, as well. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing them any other color.

Nice thing about getting older, though: one tends to remember what is really important (stuff like this), and only forget things like appointments, or where I put my glasses.

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I've retitled this thread, due to getting far off-topic. I am a big guy, so it I could get my weight down below 230 or 240, I would think about training for the Olympics. But right now my weight has been going way up, because I also like to eat, and unfortunately that's about my only means of entertainment. Got myself a bike, but it needs work; but I really like biking to get around and run my errands, do shopping, etc., and just happen to get exercise as a fringe benefit. However, when living in SF (or nowadays almost any big city), just owning a decent bike is a source of constant stress, because the bike thieves are incredibly bold, and the police (except for occasional press releases) do little to stop the thefts. However, if you live somewhere that biking is a viable option, I highly recommend it. You dislike it for about the first week, and then you get to like it so much that you cannot imagine life without it.

Also, drink lots of water, and eat fresh fruit. I got that from somebody long ago who lost something like 200 lbs, and it does work. But then, I need to get with it myself again. Bill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

I am a big guy, so it I could get my weight down below 230 or 240, I would think about training for the Olympics. But right now my weight has been going way up, because I also like to eat, and unfortunately that's about my only means of entertainment.

On Saturday 17 March 2018 18:00:36 William Morder wrote: <big snip> No, just a standard Slax install on a USB stick. "Persistent Changes" does not compute on CD or DVD. Glen PS. If you have a spare USB stick, I think you will be impressed with the latest Slax as an alternative to your FrankenDebian. G.

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On Saturday 17 March 2018 01:41:23 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote: What think you of Parted Magic? How does it compare to Slacko? I ask because I am not so familiar with Slackware (though I don't know if it matters much for this job of resizing a partition); but I do know Parted Magic, and have used it before now several times. https://partedmagic.com/ It also supports various file systems: ext2, ext3, ext4, fat16, fat32, ntfs, and reiserfs and has other useful features. Bill

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perhaps you're thinking of gparted, which is free. dep

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you can't open a terminal and su gparted? you might want it on an external boot, such as the linux system rescue disk, because you can't run it on a mounted partition. dep

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Oh yeah, for anybody who is looking for the iso file of gparted: https://sourceforge.net/projects/gparted/files/latest/download

It's a matter of what one is familiar with; your granddaddy is not mine.

On Sunday 18 March 2018 11:50:11 William Morder wrote: <snip> Not exactly, you follow the Slax instructions <https://www.slax.org/ug/starting.php> IIRC. In Linux, just dd the .iso to appropriate writable media (I used a Sandisk USB 3.0 "thumb" drive. Then follow the instructions in the readme.txt file to make it bootable. <more snippage> "Persistent Changes" has been broken by the builder of the "Slax with Trinity" image. However, I'm still looking to see if I can restore this, for me, essential feature. A post in the origin thread that announced the "Slax with Trinity" asking for this got no response. :-( Glen

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I did give the list a look, and it is impressive; however, it isn't GNU/Linux (or at least, the gnu.org site doesn't approve of Knoppix).

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

Also, drink lots of water, and eat fresh fruit. I got that from somebody long ago who lost something like 200 lbs, and it does work. But then, I need to get with it myself again.

What think you of Parted Magic? How does it compare to Slacko?

I ask because I am not so familiar with Slackware (though I don't know if it matters much for this job of resizing a partition); but I do know Parted Magic, and have used it before now several times.

https://partedmagic.com/ It also supports various file systems: ext2, ext3, ext4, fat16, fat32, ntfs, and reiserfs and has other useful features. Bill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-users-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-users-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-users.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

On Saturday 17 March 2018 23:58:25 Felix Miata wrote: I don't want to use proprietary or non-free software. Trinity is included in a number of GNU/Linux distros, including exegnulinux, GnuSense, some Devuan, etc. TDE, so far as I know, is free/libre by design. Trinity isn't in that list because it is not an operating system, but only a desktop environment. Anyway, I told you that I wasn't a purist; I use Trinity because it works better for me. It might be useful to me for that reason, because it has other tools. I only need a live disc for repartitioning at this particular time, not for long term. However, I won't knock it without having tried the most recent version, because I might find those tools useful at some point. Free as in freedom, not free as in free beer. It is not just the cost, but also what I am legally allowed to do with my software. Software that is non-free or proprietary specifically forbids modifying the code, or using it in a manner other than that for which it was intended (i.e., "hacking" in the original sense of the word, as opposed to "cracking", which is doing illegal stuff like breaking into networks or other people's computers). I only want to be able to make my system do whatever I want, and to modify software if I so choose. No special effort. I just want what I want.

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cut all fats