Hello,
Sorry, the recent internet link below is in french. (28/09/2018)
I translate a little bit : The Linux system "cloud Azure" of Microsoft represents now 50%, and each month it increases.
As I written, Microsoft says that : "they are now a major actor of the opensource..."
Even the ex-General Executive of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer, who hated Linux, qualified it as a "cancer ", says now that he is a fan of the Linux system. The time has changed...
The article : www.zdnet.fr/actualites/c-est-qui-le-patron-sur-microsoft-azure-linux-39874301.htm
"Linux users of all countries, unite you !" :
Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
The desktops of Linux could be a brake to switch to Linux, (KDE, Mate, Xfce...) but TDE-Trinity desktop is really good and not known enough.
Maybe, the desktop of Windows is the only quality of this system.
For me : Linux and TDE are perfect, the winning cocktail !
Remains the battle materials (install driver) too complex on Linux.
Companies as IBM coud help the Linux community ? (after the disaster of OS/WARP).
Regards,
André
Am Montag, 1. Oktober 2018 schrieb andre_debian@numericable.fr:
[...] Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
If I recall correctly, then you only need 2% to change a politcal system (but I need to dig into my papers for the correct quote).
nik
On 2018-10-01 13:06:56 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 1. Oktober 2018 schrieb andre_debian@numericable.fr:
[...] Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
If I recall correctly, then you only need 2% to change a politcal system (but I need to dig into my papers for the correct quote).
nik
Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think that Linux is a political system.
Leslie
On Monday 01 October 2018 11:41:25 J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2018-10-01 13:06:56 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 1. Oktober 2018 schrieb andre_debian@numericable.fr:
[...] Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
If I recall correctly, then you only need 2% to change a politcal system (but I need to dig into my papers for the correct quote).
nik
Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think that Linux is a political system.
Leslie
Maybe not political by intention, but definitely political in its long-term effects. (See Richard Stallman for more on this; only be prepared to use his own terminology when discussing any subject, or suffer the consequences. He is right on the money, though, concerning the issues at stake.)
What software you use is a political decision, whether you like it or not, in the same way that what food you eat, or what music you listen to (or don't) may be considered a "religious decision", even if you are not religious.
The issue here is freedom; and "free" in free/libre software is in that sense, not "free" as in free beer.
Bill
On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2018-10-01 13:06:56 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 1. Oktober 2018 schrieb andre_debian@numericable.fr:
[...] Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
If I recall correctly, then you only need 2% to change a politcal system (but I need to dig into my papers for the correct quote).
nik
Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think that Linux is a political system.
Leslie
All of this "stuff" is Religion.
Jonesy
On Monday 01 October 2018 23:14:04 deloptes wrote:
Marvin Jones wrote:
All of this "stuff" is Religion.
Religion, Ideology, Philosophy
Almost any question can be turned into a tautology. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tautology
I used to run into Marxists whose guanonian fundamentalist logic drove me crazy: "Every action (or even non-action) is a political action." In a way, though, they had a point: when you live in conditions where everything is regarded in terms of politics, everything is political. (Or substitute religion, or whatever.)
In a broad universal "everything is love" sort of way, this isn't so bad, but when people try to apply it to individual actions at every moment, it gets tiresome, and ends up turning into some species of oppression.
It's only because our notions of privacy and freedom have eroded that now it seems like a radical idea for users to be able (or even to want) to control their personal data, or to decide what their computers and phones can and cannot do, or even to imagine that they ought to be able to customize the look and feel of their desktops (that is, beyond the dozen or so boring templates offered by other DEs).
If one is old enough to remember a time before this "new normal", then the present reality looks increasingly unreal and disturbing.
But enough sermonizing! This is why I want to keep TDE alive and well: I can get my computer to do what I want.
Bill
Am Dienstag, 2. Oktober 2018 schrieb deloptes:
Marvin Jones wrote:
All of this "stuff" is Religion.
Religion, Ideology, Philosophy
All good reasons to fetch forks and torches, pile up the bonfires and hunt for ... oh, it's oktober ...
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Dienstag, 2. Oktober 2018 schrieb deloptes:
Marvin Jones wrote:
All of this "stuff" is Religion.
Religion, Ideology, Philosophy
All good reasons to fetch forks and torches, pile up the bonfires and hunt for ... oh, it's oktober ...
however I'd warn against belittling ethical concerns as "religion, ideology, philosophy" in the pejorative sense of the words (even when we disagree).
f.
On Wednesday 03 October 2018 10:41:10 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Dienstag, 2. Oktober 2018 schrieb deloptes:
Marvin Jones wrote:
All of this "stuff" is Religion.
Religion, Ideology, Philosophy
All good reasons to fetch forks and torches, pile up the bonfires and hunt for ... oh, it's oktober ...
however I'd warn against belittling ethical concerns as "religion, ideology, philosophy" in the pejorative sense of the words (even when we disagree).
f.
Since we are going far off-topic, I would remind everybody that all this talk of "religion, ideology, philosophy" (pejorative or not) started with the notion that our choice of software and/or operating system is somehow a "political action" or a rebellion. (Choice of software meaning, e.g., proprietary versus so-called "open source", or better, free/libre.)
I pointed out that some would try to frame all our words and actions (or lack of them) in political terms, as I used to be confronted by Marxists who used that argument. In the same way, our choice of food (kosher/halal, or not) may be regarded by some as a religious choice. And so on.
All these are types of fundamentalist thinking (about which you and I have had discussions already). I see no harm in the universal awakening to a kind of "everything is love" experience, the desire to help others, to identify one's own being with every atom in the Universe, to get a sense that everything is Divine. This is a sort of "diversity is unity" paradox. The problem creeps in when, for example, those of a literalist bent would try to force everybody everywhere into their narrow interpretation of [*fill in the blank here*]. And this is why "religion, ideology, philosophy" come to be regarded as negative, or mostly negative.
So the question is, How to achieve the greatest degree of freedom, happiness and fulfillment for the most people, while yet not infringing on that of others, or offending against their way of life? The short answer is, It can't be done; not really. We can only try to broaden our experiences and understanding, act with good will and generosity towards others, and hope and trust for the same in return.
Regarding how this principle applies to software: Run GNU/Linux, with the TDE desktop. Problem solved.
For myself, by the way, I am glad that I cannot swim. That way, I will drown and fail the test, and spare myself getting burned at the stake.
Bill
On Monday 01 October 2018 11:06:56 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Montag, 1. Oktober 2018 schrieb andre_debian@numericable.fr:
[...] Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
If I recall correctly, then you only need 2% to change a politcal system (but I need to dig into my papers for the correct quote).
nik
Sorry, my own previous post was intended for the Evil Mad Scientist group. I doubt we can really achieve total domination.
A change of 2%, however, especially if we manage to get attention in the right places is viable and reasonable; and that is enough to change people's attitudes. As I've said before, I want to see TDE accepted into the general repositories (Debian, Devuan, Ubuntu, etc.), rather than put out there like some kind of weird off-brand. It would be the easiest desktop, too, for users who are switching from Microshaft or the rotten Apple.
Seriously, though, I agree that TDE is the only desktop that can compete with Microshaft and the rotten Apple in terms of ease and usability and "eye-candy" - except that to create the eye-candy, one must build one's own candy factory.
I believe that if we could present TDE on a level playing field, then Linuix people would come to see the Trinity desktop in a much better light; as it is, so many in the Linux community (probably, I think, because they have vested interests) insult TDE as "stuck in the past" and other such nonsense. (But then, if one is directly or indirectly involved in the development of one of those other desktops (e.g. KDE Plasma, LXDE, Mate, XFCE, etc.), then one obviously one necessarily must regard one's own project as the "best"; because any other reaction is like a confession of disloyalty, and seems to negate the value of one's own work. And TDE is so good (just like the old KDE3), that it invariably makes everything else look not just bad, but indeed ugly and stupid.
Then again, it is just possible that some Linux people want to keep Linux users a minority, and to that degree also, user-unfriendly. And perhaps not without reason; because with more users, Linux will attract more viruses, trojans, malware, etc. However, that seems to be a self-defeating strategy, sort of like never leaving the house because one might get into an accident, or get robbed. I think the strength of genuine free/libre software and a community of users to examine the code is all we really need to protect us.
As for Microshaft: I wouldn't trust anything coming from them, no matter how much they claim to love open-source; and the rotten Apple is no better. Again, their jobs and income depend on "growing their business" and burying the competition; so any apparent friendliness toward GNU/Linux or TDE is, in my opinion, not to be trusted.
We need is just more press, written by people who know and like TDE; and for more people "out there" to hear about it and try it. I am willing to help, if I can be useful.
But what I think we really need first ... is a PLAN.
Bill
On Monday 01 October 2018, andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
Hello,
Sorry, the recent internet link below is in french. (28/09/2018)
I translate a little bit : The Linux system "cloud Azure" of Microsoft represents now 50%, and each month it increases.
As I written, Microsoft says that : "they are now a major actor of the opensource..."
Even the ex-General Executive of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer, who hated Linux, qualified it as a "cancer ", says now that he is a fan of the Linux system. The time has changed...
The article : www.zdnet.fr/actualites/c-est-qui-le-patron-sur-microsoft-azure-linux-39874 301.htm
"Linux users of all countries, unite you !" :
Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
The desktops of Linux could be a brake to switch to Linux, (KDE, Mate, Xfce...) but TDE-Trinity desktop is really good and not known enough.
Maybe, the desktop of Windows is the only quality of this system.
For me : Linux and TDE are perfect, the winning cocktail !
Remains the battle materials (install driver) too complex on Linux.
Companies as IBM coud help the Linux community ? (after the disaster of OS/WARP).
Regards,
André
If there is one thing Microsux is good at, is messing everything up. They WILL mess this up but it will be linux that pays the price. They will simply blame whatever mess they made on the linux kernel.
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
TDE and Linux. That's all for me. Apple and MS users are always coming to me for help because they can't do it on their systems.
We need be patient. Linux will emerge as a top desktop OS in a few short time.
Kate hops off her soapbox and disappears into the mysterious fog from whence she came.
PS TDE is the chocolate of all GUIs!
On Monday 01 October 2018 12:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2018, andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
Hello,
Sorry, the recent internet link below is in french. (28/09/2018)
I translate a little bit : The Linux system "cloud Azure" of Microsoft represents now 50%, and each month it increases.
As I written, Microsoft says that : "they are now a major actor of the opensource..."
Even the ex-General Executive of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer, who hated Linux, qualified it as a "cancer ", says now that he is a fan of the Linux system. The time has changed...
The article : www.zdnet.fr/actualites/c-est-qui-le-patron-sur-microsoft-azure-linux-398 74 301.htm
"Linux users of all countries, unite you !" :
Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
The desktops of Linux could be a brake to switch to Linux, (KDE, Mate, Xfce...) but TDE-Trinity desktop is really good and not known enough.
Maybe, the desktop of Windows is the only quality of this system.
For me : Linux and TDE are perfect, the winning cocktail !
Remains the battle materials (install driver) too complex on Linux.
Companies as IBM coud help the Linux community ? (after the disaster of OS/WARP).
Regards,
Andr�
If there is one thing Microsux is good at, is messing everything up. They WILL mess this up but it will be linux that pays the price. They will simply blame whatever mess they made on the linux kernel.
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
TDE and Linux. That's all for me. Apple and MS users are always coming to me for help because they can't do it on their systems.
We need be patient. Linux will emerge as a top desktop OS in a few short time.
Kate hops off her soapbox and disappears into the mysterious fog from whence she came.
PS TDE is the chocolate of all GUIs!
TDE is the truffles of all GUIs, because it takes somebody to "dig" it.
Bill
On Monday 01 October 2018, William Morder wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2018 12:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2018, andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
Hello,
Sorry, the recent internet link below is in french. (28/09/2018)
I translate a little bit : The Linux system "cloud Azure" of Microsoft represents now 50%, and each month it increases.
As I written, Microsoft says that : "they are now a major actor of the opensource..."
Even the ex-General Executive of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer, who hated Linux, qualified it as a "cancer ", says now that he is a fan of the Linux system. The time has changed...
The article : www.zdnet.fr/actualites/c-est-qui-le-patron-sur-microsoft-azure-linux-3 98 74 301.htm
"Linux users of all countries, unite you !" :
Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
The desktops of Linux could be a brake to switch to Linux, (KDE, Mate, Xfce...) but TDE-Trinity desktop is really good and not known enough.
Maybe, the desktop of Windows is the only quality of this system.
For me : Linux and TDE are perfect, the winning cocktail !
Remains the battle materials (install driver) too complex on Linux.
Companies as IBM coud help the Linux community ? (after the disaster of OS/WARP).
Regards,
Andr�
If there is one thing Microsux is good at, is messing everything up. They WILL mess this up but it will be linux that pays the price. They will simply blame whatever mess they made on the linux kernel.
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
TDE and Linux. That's all for me. Apple and MS users are always coming to me for help because they can't do it on their systems.
We need be patient. Linux will emerge as a top desktop OS in a few short time.
Kate hops off her soapbox and disappears into the mysterious fog from whence she came.
PS TDE is the chocolate of all GUIs!
TDE is the truffles of all GUIs, because it takes somebody to "dig" it.
Bill
Ooooooh that hurt.
On Monday 01 October 2018 22:16:37 Kate Draven wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2018, William Morder wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2018 12:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2018, andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
Hello,
Sorry, the recent internet link below is in french. (28/09/2018)
I translate a little bit : The Linux system "cloud Azure" of Microsoft represents now 50%, and each month it increases.
As I written, Microsoft says that : "they are now a major actor of the opensource..."
Even the ex-General Executive of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer, who hated Linux, qualified it as a "cancer ", says now that he is a fan of the Linux system. The time has changed...
The article : www.zdnet.fr/actualites/c-est-qui-le-patron-sur-microsoft-azure-linux -3 98 74 301.htm
"Linux users of all countries, unite you !" :
Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
The desktops of Linux could be a brake to switch to Linux, (KDE, Mate, Xfce...) but TDE-Trinity desktop is really good and not known enough.
Maybe, the desktop of Windows is the only quality of this system.
For me : Linux and TDE are perfect, the winning cocktail !
Remains the battle materials (install driver) too complex on Linux.
Companies as IBM coud help the Linux community ? (after the disaster of OS/WARP).
Regards,
Andr�
If there is one thing Microsux is good at, is messing everything up. They WILL mess this up but it will be linux that pays the price. They will simply blame whatever mess they made on the linux kernel.
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
TDE and Linux. That's all for me. Apple and MS users are always coming to me for help because they can't do it on their systems.
We need be patient. Linux will emerge as a top desktop OS in a few short time.
Kate hops off her soapbox and disappears into the mysterious fog from whence she came.
PS TDE is the chocolate of all GUIs!
TDE is the truffles of all GUIs, because it takes somebody to "dig" it.
Bill
Ooooooh that hurt.
There are still plenty of metaphors left for fanciful comparisons.
Bill
On 2018-10-01 14:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
On Monday 01 October 2018, andre_debian@numericable.fr wrote:
Hello,
Sorry, the recent internet link below is in french. (28/09/2018)
I translate a little bit : The Linux system "cloud Azure" of Microsoft represents now 50%, and each month it increases.
As I written, Microsoft says that : "they are now a major actor of the opensource..."
Even the ex-General Executive of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer, who hated Linux, qualified it as a "cancer ", says now that he is a fan of the Linux system. The time has changed...
The article : www.zdnet.fr/actualites/c-est-qui-le-patron-sur-microsoft-azure-linux-398 74 301.htm
"Linux users of all countries, unite you !" :
Yes, but we are not numerous enough (in the consumer market), only 3%.
The desktops of Linux could be a brake to switch to Linux, (KDE, Mate, Xfce...) but TDE-Trinity desktop is really good and not known enough.
Maybe, the desktop of Windows is the only quality of this system.
For me : Linux and TDE are perfect, the winning cocktail !
Remains the battle materials (install driver) too complex on Linux.
Companies as IBM coud help the Linux community ? (after the disaster of OS/WARP).
Regards,
André
If there is one thing Microsux is good at, is messing everything up. They WILL mess this up but it will be linux that pays the price. They will simply blame whatever mess they made on the linux kernel.
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
The only ones I know of are the video drivers (which are optional).
Leslie
TDE and Linux. That's all for me. Apple and MS users are always coming to me for help because they can't do it on their systems.
We need be patient. Linux will emerge as a top desktop OS in a few short time.
Kate hops off her soapbox and disappears into the mysterious fog from whence she came.
PS TDE is the chocolate of all GUIs!
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On Thu, 4 Oct 2018, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2018-10-01 14:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
[ ... deleted ... ]
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
The only ones I know of are the video drivers (which are optional).
Leslie
not sure what counts as a 'driver' but I have had to install some package for Brother printers and 'firmware' for wifi (Intel).
if this is just a matter of semantics then let's not fuss.
the fact remains that for some it's not all "out of the box" or whatever to call it.
f.
On Friday 05 October 2018 00:19:47 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2018-10-01 14:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
[ ... deleted ... ]
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
The only ones I know of are the video drivers (which are optional).
Leslie
not sure what counts as a 'driver' but I have had to install some package for Brother printers and 'firmware' for wifi (Intel).
if this is just a matter of semantics then let's not fuss.
the fact remains that for some it's not all "out of the box" or whatever to call it.
f.
Maybe what was meant was dependencies rather than drivers? Brother printers, and other such items, are special cases, because one doesn't get the deb packages (or rpm, yum, etc., according to the distro) from the standard repositories, but must download them from the manufacturer's website. (I, too, wrestle with a Brother printer.) There, perhaps, one means to say drivers, even if they are deb packages.
When I read the word *driver*, however, I immediately thought that it sounded more like a Windoze or rotten Apple user, who had recently switched to Linux, and was unfamiliar with the repositories, or how to use apt. If we knew more, we might be able to make suggestions, or offer other help.
For a new user, the first few weeks of learning to run Linux is sort of like moving to a different planet, because everything seems totally different. It is, however, a very sane planet.
Bill
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 02:48:35 -0700 William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Friday 05 October 2018 00:19:47 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2018-10-01 14:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
[ ... deleted ... ]
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
The only ones I know of are the video drivers (which are optional).
Leslie
not sure what counts as a 'driver' but I have had to install some package for Brother printers and 'firmware' for wifi (Intel).
if this is just a matter of semantics then let's not fuss.
the fact remains that for some it's not all "out of the box" or whatever to call it.
f.
Maybe what was meant was dependencies rather than drivers? Brother printers, and other such items, are special cases, because one doesn't get the deb packages (or rpm, yum, etc., according to the distro) from the standard repositories, but must download them from the manufacturer's website. (I, too, wrestle with a Brother printer.) There, perhaps, one means to say drivers, even if they are deb packages.
When I read the word *driver*, however, I immediately thought that it sounded more like a Windoze or rotten Apple user, who had recently switched to Linux, and was unfamiliar with the repositories, or how to use apt. If we knew more, we might be able to make suggestions, or offer other help.
Um, no, "driver"--a piece of software that makes it possible to communicate with a piece of hardware--is the correct term, and you're using them all the time in Linux, too. It's just that most of the more common ones are treated as part of the kernel (or of CUPS and its supporting packages), so you never notice them.
There are a lot of drivers that are or have been maintained outside the kernel, though, and these often have to be installed separately. The printer drivers and the proprietary 3D acceleration drivers for nVidia and AMD are the most common, but there are others: drivers for network equipment, modems, smartcard readers, crypto dongles, game controllers, and other oddly specific hardware that most people never run into. They may or may not be in your distro's repositories, depending on who wrote the driver, what the distro's position on proprietary code is, and other factors.
I'm currently running an externally packaged driver for my motherboard's internal sensor chip, because support for the it87 family of chips has been slow in reaching the kernel.
TL;DR: drivers have always been in Linux, too, and they're not going anywhere.
E. Liddell
On Friday 05 October 2018 04:37:43 E. Liddell wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 02:48:35 -0700
William Morder doctor_contendo@zoho.com wrote:
On Friday 05 October 2018 00:19:47 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2018-10-01 14:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
[ ... deleted ... ]
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
The only ones I know of are the video drivers (which are optional).
Leslie
not sure what counts as a 'driver' but I have had to install some package for Brother printers and 'firmware' for wifi (Intel).
if this is just a matter of semantics then let's not fuss.
the fact remains that for some it's not all "out of the box" or whatever to call it.
f.
Maybe what was meant was dependencies rather than drivers? Brother printers, and other such items, are special cases, because one doesn't get the deb packages (or rpm, yum, etc., according to the distro) from the standard repositories, but must download them from the manufacturer's website. (I, too, wrestle with a Brother printer.) There, perhaps, one means to say drivers, even if they are deb packages.
When I read the word *driver*, however, I immediately thought that it sounded more like a Windoze or rotten Apple user, who had recently switched to Linux, and was unfamiliar with the repositories, or how to use apt. If we knew more, we might be able to make suggestions, or offer other help.
Um, no, "driver"--a piece of software that makes it possible to communicate with a piece of hardware--is the correct term, and you're using them all the time in Linux, too. It's just that most of the more common ones are treated as part of the kernel (or of CUPS and its supporting packages), so you never notice them.
There are a lot of drivers that are or have been maintained outside the kernel, though, and these often have to be installed separately. The printer drivers and the proprietary 3D acceleration drivers for nVidia and AMD are the most common, but there are others: drivers for network equipment, modems, smartcard readers, crypto dongles, game controllers, and other oddly specific hardware that most people never run into. They may or may not be in your distro's repositories, depending on who wrote the driver, what the distro's position on proprietary code is, and other factors.
I'm currently running an externally packaged driver for my motherboard's internal sensor chip, because support for the it87 family of chips has been slow in reaching the kernel.
TL;DR: drivers have always been in Linux, too, and they're not going anywhere.
E. Liddell
Yes, thanks, I do know what drivers are, and also that we have them in Linux. It's just that I don't usually think specifically of drivers, because I just install the packages I need, and they come with them as dependencies, or they come bundled with the kernel, or other packages. I rarely have found myself thinking about drivers, except in those cases where I need them for something like my Brother printer.
I assumed readers would know I meant that, in Linux, drivers are packaged in a such a way that quite often we "never notice them", as you put it; except, that is, when it comes to third-party, proprietary stuff. In Linux, I rarely read about drivers, even though I know that they are there; whereas when I ran Windoze (nearly fifteen years ago now), drivers seemed to occupy much more of my attention. Except for my printer, I don't use proprietary anything; and if I can get my printer to work without it, they I will have all free/libre software.
The wording of that earlier thread (which has now been lost) reminded me more of a Windoze discussion, so I was just guessing, perhaps wrongly, that the user had recently switched from another platform to Linux.
Thanks for the message, as I am glad to see that your address is not getting marked as spam.
Bill
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018, William Morder wrote:
I assumed readers would know I meant that, in Linux, drivers are packaged in a such a way that quite often we "never notice them", as you put it; except, that is, when it comes to third-party, proprietary stuff.
ok, so it just comes down to a matter of perception but we have agreement on what a 'driver' is (thanks, E. Liddel) and also that not everything is "out of the box" in Linux for some of us.
Thanks for the message, as I am glad to see that your address is not getting marked as spam.
E. Liddel's messages *always* go to spam in my case as well as one or two others. no loss since I regularly check and haul them out but then they are not in sequence. my address hides the fact it is a gmail system. I should write a filter.
f.
On 2018-10-05 13:49:58 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2018, William Morder wrote:
I assumed readers would know I meant that, in Linux, drivers are packaged in a such a way that quite often we "never notice them", as you put it; except, that is, when it comes to third-party, proprietary stuff.
ok, so it just comes down to a matter of perception but we have agreement on what a 'driver' is (thanks, E. Liddel) and also that not everything is "out of the box" in Linux for some of us.
Thanks for the message, as I am glad to see that your address is not getting marked as spam.
E. Liddel's messages *always* go to spam in my case as well as one or two others. no loss since I regularly check and haul them out but then they are not in sequence. my address hides the fact it is a gmail system. I should write a filter.
f.
The only Linux drivers that I've had problems with are the Wacom driver, because of my ancient RS-232 serial-port tablet) and the obscure USB-to-serial driver which I tried to use on a machine that had no native serial ports. I also struggle regularly with the PulseAudio subsystem, which is not well supported on OpenSuSE, but I consider it to be an application, not a driver.
Leslie
On 2018-10-05 02:19:47 Felmon Davis wrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2018, J Leslie Turriff wrote:
On 2018-10-01 14:21:14 Kate Draven wrote:
[ ... deleted ... ]
As for drivers,what do you mean? I've never had to install drivers. I HAVE had to install them in Apple and MS. That's a nightmare. Perhaps I'm mistunderstood (which is likely).
The only ones I know of are the video drivers (which are optional).
Leslie
not sure what counts as a 'driver' but I have had to install some package for Brother printers and 'firmware' for wifi (Intel).
if this is just a matter of semantics then let's not fuss.
the fact remains that for some it's not all "out of the box" or whatever to call it.
f.
Yes, you're right about the Brother "driver," but AFAIK the only component that's used is the PPD file which describes the printer's capabilities. The only executable that's supplied (for my HL4150CDN, at least) is something called 'brprintconf_hl4150cdn', which I've never (knowingly) used.
Leslie
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