On Mon, 31 Jul 2017, Nick Koretsky wrote:
I already written about that on this list long time ago. That checkbox is very badly named, the correct name should be "Apply themes to non-TDE application". It additional to colors it tries to apply fonts and ok/cancel order and who knows what else. Also, afaik, it only apply them on checking the box by writing to various config files, so if something also altered this files you have to uncheck and recheck it to reapply.
I'm also suffering a tiny fonts problem on an Asus Ux330u with an QHD screen. the fonts on the taskbar (kicker) and the font on the menu window of Trinity Control Center' are miniscule as are fonts on applications like LibreOffice, GIMP, Pan, etc. as far as I can tell, it affects all apps, whether Gnome or KDE.
the thing also boots to Gnome (Gnome or so-called Debian Desktop Environment and Cinnamon) and to Windows 10, no problem with fonts. if I were only sure which config files to steal from Gnome!
xdpyinfo |grep -B2 resolution --> dimensions: 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 millimeters) resolution: 96x96 dots per inch
I've tried various settings in fonts enabling and disabling dpi. does seem to do best with Enabled 120 DPI
using exegnu version.
advice please.
(week ago posted about overcoming UEFI; got that under control.)
f.
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-03 00:57 (UTC-0400):
I'm also suffering a tiny fonts problem on an Asus Ux330u with an QHD screen. the fonts on the taskbar (kicker) and the font on the menu window of Trinity Control Center' are miniscule as are fonts on applications like LibreOffice, GIMP, Pan, etc. as far as I can tell, it affects all apps, whether Gnome or KDE.
the thing also boots to Gnome (Gnome or so-called Debian Desktop Environment and Cinnamon) and to Windows 10, no problem with fonts. if I were only sure which config files to steal from Gnome!
xdpyinfo |grep -B2 resolution --> dimensions: 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 millimeters) resolution: 96x96 dots per inch
I've tried various settings in fonts enabling and disabling dpi. does seem to do best with Enabled 120 DPI
using exegnu version.
What version of GTK3 does EXEGNU use? If > 3.16, you might be experiencing: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 and some of its progeny, such as: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
Setting DPI in your TDE Control Center's fonts menu should produce the following on your system:
# xrdb --query | grep dpi Xft.dpi 120
Xft.dpi does not apply to all of Xorg and Xorg applications. To enjoy 120 DPI in all of Xorg, 120 must be applied /to/ Xorg. There are various ways to do that. I do it globally in one of two ways:
1-setting DisplaySize in /etc/X11/xorg.conf*
2-xrandr in a global startup script somewhere in /etc/X11/.
For those using a proprietary NVidia video driver, there exists an explicit dpi option for the xorg.conf its installation created. An alternate method I do not employ is finding the xinit script that actually starts Xorg and editing the start line to include the desired DPI value.
Done correctly, xdpyinfo will also report 120.
Also if done correctly, and GTK3 version is 3.16.x or less, the global Xorg DPI setting will make the TDE Control Center DPI setting redundant, thus unnecessary. If GTK3 is >3.16.x, then Xft.dpi will ultimately need to be set to match the desired setting, which can be done in /etc/X11/*Xresources or .Xresources as well as indirectly in TDE Control Center DPI.
I don't know why TDE Control Center DPI has only the three choices, but setting Xft.dpi through other means offers choosing any arbitrary value, e.g. 168, 133, 220, etc. Global Xorg DPI is similarly unlimited.
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Felix Miata wrote:
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-03 00:57 (UTC-0400):
I'm also suffering a tiny fonts problem on an Asus Ux330u with an QHD screen. the fonts on the taskbar (kicker) and the font on the menu window of Trinity Control Center' are miniscule as are fonts on applications like LibreOffice, GIMP, Pan, etc. as far as I can tell, it affects all apps, whether Gnome or KDE.
the thing also boots to Gnome (Gnome or so-called Debian Desktop Environment and Cinnamon) and to Windows 10, no problem with fonts. if I were only sure which config files to steal from Gnome!
xdpyinfo |grep -B2 resolution --> dimensions: 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 millimeters) resolution: 96x96 dots per inch
I've tried various settings in fonts enabling and disabling dpi. does seem to do best with Enabled 120 DPI
using exegnu version.
What version of GTK3 does EXEGNU use? If > 3.16, you might be experiencing: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 and some of its progeny, such as: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
not sure how to determine this. if I do
apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0
I get: "Installed: 2.24.31-2"
Setting DPI in your TDE Control Center's fonts menu should produce the following on your system:
# xrdb --query | grep dpi Xft.dpi 120
I get this too. (with '-query').
I notice the following:
xdpyinfo |grep dimension --> 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 millimeters)
xdpyinfo |grep dot --> 96x96 dots per inch
Xft.dpi does not apply to all of Xorg and Xorg applications. To enjoy 120 DPI in all of Xorg, 120 must be applied /to/ Xorg. There are various ways to do that. I do it globally in one of two ways:
1-setting DisplaySize in /etc/X11/xorg.conf*
not sure what DisplaySize should be.
I don't have such a file; attempting to produce it using
X :0 -configure
as root and with X shut down produces a segfault; it does produce a skeleton xorg.conf.new file. evidently I'm doing this wrong.
perhaps this is enough for further trouble-shooting; what do I do next? (I prefer to set up an xconfig file.)
f.
2-xrandr in a global startup script somewhere in /etc/X11/.
For those using a proprietary NVidia video driver, there exists an explicit dpi option for the xorg.conf its installation created. An alternate method I do not employ is finding the xinit script that actually starts Xorg and editing the start line to include the desired DPI value.
Done correctly, xdpyinfo will also report 120.
Also if done correctly, and GTK3 version is 3.16.x or less, the global Xorg DPI setting will make the TDE Control Center DPI setting redundant, thus unnecessary. If GTK3 is >3.16.x, then Xft.dpi will ultimately need to be set to match the desired setting, which can be done in /etc/X11/*Xresources or .Xresources as well as indirectly in TDE Control Center DPI.
I don't know why TDE Control Center DPI has only the three choices, but setting Xft.dpi through other means offers choosing any arbitrary value, e.g. 168, 133, 220, etc. Global Xorg DPI is similarly unlimited.
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, deloptes wrote:
Felmon Davis wrote:
perhaps this is enough for further trouble-shooting; what do I do next? (I prefer to set up an xconfig file.)
use Xorg instead of X
Xorg :0 -configure
(belated) thanks for this correction!
f.
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-03 17:34 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata wrote:
What version of GTK3 does EXEGNU use? If > 3.16, you might be experiencing: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 and some of its progeny, such as: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
not sure how to determine this. if I do
apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0
I get: "Installed: 2.24.31-2"
Only the GTK3 version is relevant to the potential problem of GTK3-built apps not obeying your TDE font settings, which may have nothing to do with the tiny fonts you are actually seeing.
Setting DPI in your TDE Control Center's fonts menu should produce the following on your system:
# xrdb --query | grep dpi Xft.dpi 120
I get this too. (with '-query').
I notice the following:
xdpyinfo |grep dimension --> 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 millimeters)
xdpyinfo |grep dot --> 96x96 dots per inch
Since about 11 years ago, Xorg has been forcing millimeters to whatever numbers are required to result in 96x96 DPI, unless manually configured to produce some other values.
Xft.dpi does not apply to all of Xorg and Xorg applications. To enjoy 120 DPI in all of Xorg, 120 must be applied /to/ Xorg. There are various ways to do that. I do it globally in one of two ways:
1-setting DisplaySize in /etc/X11/xorg.conf*
not sure what DisplaySize should be.
The theoretically /accurate/ value is in your laptop's specifications. You can get close enough with a ruler. For a 13.3" 16:9 display it should be about 294.4 X 165.6 for a 267.3 DPI result. http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/displays.html has a lookup table you can check against and make comparisons. 267 is clearly the highest density there listed, and the highest I've ever seen anyone discuss on a mailing list.
The practical optimum can only be determined via experimentation.
I don't have such a file; attempting to produce it using
X :0 -configure
as root and with X shut down produces a segfault; it does produce a skeleton xorg.conf.new file. evidently I'm doing this wrong
That's the unfortunate typical result of upstream Xorg for compatibility reasons retaining a virtually useless and broken tool. In modern releases it's useless 99%+ of the time. Most of the time automagic just works and no xorg.conf is needed. The main problem is "most of the time" turns into hardly ever with very HiDPI displays.
perhaps this is enough for further trouble-shooting; what do I do next? (I prefer to set up an xconfig file.)
Save http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround to use as an /etc/X11/xorg.conf template. Create in it an uncommented DisplaySize line. Using half the values reported above that produce 96x96 /should/ produce 192x192 as a place to start your experiments:
DisplaySize 423 213 # 192 DPI @ 3200x1800
If that turns out to be overkill, try half as much increase:
DisplaySize 635 320 # 144 DPI @ 3200x1800
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Felix Miata wrote:
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-03 17:34 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata wrote:
What version of GTK3 does EXEGNU use? If > 3.16, you might be experiencing: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757142 and some of its progeny, such as: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1269274
not sure how to determine this. if I do
apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0
I get: "Installed: 2.24.31-2"
Only the GTK3 version is relevant to the potential problem of GTK3-built apps not obeying your TDE font settings, which may have nothing to do with the tiny fonts you are actually seeing.
I can't seem to get anything on gtk3 although it looks like some programs invoke it.
I wrote that I wasn't sure what the display size should be to which you responded:
Save http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround to use as an /etc/X11/xorg.conf template. Create in it an uncommented DisplaySize line. Using half the values reported above that produce 96x96 /should/ produce 192x192 as a place to start your experiments:
DisplaySize 423 213 # 192 DPI @ 3200x1800
I tried this value and the fonts were grotesquely large on the login page but once logged in I saw no difference.
what I (think I) am missing is the correct values for HorizSync and VertRefresh - I couldn't infer them from what you wrote or from the link; I used the ones in the template without success (forget now what happened).
I fooled a bit with HorizSync and VertRefresh and at one point I got a fair font size but Horizontal was too short. not sure if this is what I should play with and if so, how to calculate the correct values.
am I right that I should fool with HorizSync and VertRefresh? I have also entered:
Option "PreferredMode" "3200x1800"
any further guidance welcome.
f.
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 01:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Felmon Davis davisf@union.edu wrote:
I wrote that I wasn't sure what the display size should be to which you responded:
Save http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround to use as an /etc/X11/xorg.conf template. Create in it an uncommented DisplaySize line. Using half the values reported above that produce 96x96 /should/ produce 192x192 as a place to start your experiments:
DisplaySize 423 213 # 192 DPI @ 3200x1800
I tried this value and the fonts were grotesquely large on the login page but once logged in I saw no difference.
what I (think I) am missing is the correct values for HorizSync and VertRefresh - I couldn't infer them from what you wrote or from the link; I used the ones in the template without success (forget now what happened).
I fooled a bit with HorizSync and VertRefresh and at one point I got a fair font size but Horizontal was too short. not sure if this is what I should play with and if so, how to calculate the correct values.
am I right that I should fool with HorizSync and VertRefresh? I have also entered:
Option "PreferredMode" "3200x1800"
any further guidance welcome.
HorizSync and VertRefresh shouldnt affect font size at all. This are limits of what you monitor is capable off, they only affect what modes Xorg thinks are available. You normaly souldnt set them at all, they should be read from EDID, only tinker with them if some video modes that should be present are not.
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, Nick Koretsky wrote:
HorizSync and VertRefresh shouldnt affect font size at all. This are limits of what you monitor is capable off, they only affect what modes Xorg thinks are available. You normaly souldnt set them at all, they should be read from EDID, only tinker with them if some video modes that should be present are not.
words of wisdom.
f.
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-04 01:15 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata wrote:
...
apt-cache policy libgtk2.0-0
I get: "Installed: 2.24.31-2"
Only the GTK3 version is relevant to the potential problem of GTK3-built apps not obeying your TDE font settings, which may have nothing to do with the tiny fonts you are actually seeing.
I can't seem to get anything on gtk3 although it looks like some programs invoke it.
Jessie never shipped with GTK3 AFAICT, so likely its missing from Exegnu as well. Current Firefox and SeaMonkey versions downloaded directly from Mozilla.org depend on it. Linux distros, older versions at least, for the time being have the option to keep building with GTK2 instead, and probably all that provide ESR versions are doing so. LO might be using GTK3 already that far back, I don't know, but it provides its own means of manipulating font sizes anyway (and defaulting in every one of my installations to tinier than anything else).
I wrote that I wasn't sure what the display size should be to which you responded:
Save http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround to use as an /etc/X11/xorg.conf template. Create in it an uncommented DisplaySize line. Using half the values reported above that produce 96x96 /should/ produce 192x192 as a place to start your experiments:
DisplaySize 423 213 # 192 DPI @ 3200x1800
I tried this value and the fonts were grotesquely large on the login
Not a surprise to me.
page but once logged in I saw no difference.
Shock. :-( What did/do "xrdb --query | grep dpi" and "xdpyinfo | egrep 'dimen|ution'" report? Do they match what is reported if you load http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html in a Gecko browser (Firefox, SeaMonkey, others) or Konqueror w/ KHTML, but not Chrom* or Opera.
...
I fooled a bit with HorizSync and VertRefresh and at one point I got a fair font size but Horizontal was too short. not sure if this is what I should play with and if so, how to calculate the correct values.
am I right that I should fool with HorizSync and VertRefresh?
I should have told you that you should be able to comment away those lines. If that doesn't work, and it should, those values should be in the full specs for that laptop.
hwinfo --monitor | grep -A6 'river Inf'
should tell you what they are, and if it does, then it confirms they /should/ not be necessary, that is, if hwinfo even ships in Exegnu. Try:
ddcprobe ! grep monitorr
You can manufacture working ranges from the timings listed in Xorg.0.log, or from verbose xrandr output. OTOH, because that display is such high resolution, proper ranges might be unusual.
I have also entered:
Option "PreferredMode" "3200x1800"
It's probably superfluous, but couldn't hurt either.
any further guidance welcome.
Another option is to /not/ use the native 3200x1800 display mode. On a 13.3" inch screen that's way out of normal range for most developers to try to emulate to make everything work nicely visually. Unless your eyes are extraordinary, you are likely not to notice much if any difference by employing 1920x1080 instead:
Option "PreferredMode" "1920x1080"
With any luck and good eyes, you wouldn't need to fuss with DPI or suffer extra tiny fonts. To go this route you should be able to dispense with xorg.conf entirely and make select that resolution in Trinity Control Center -> Peripherals -> Display -> Size & Orientation -> Screen Size. On such a tiny screen, you might find you like 1600x900 better yet.
On Fri, 4 Aug 2017, Felix Miata wrote:
Save http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround to use as an /etc/X11/xorg.conf template. Create in it an uncommented DisplaySize line. Using half the values reported above that produce 96x96 /should/ produce 192x192 as a place to start your experiments:
DisplaySize 423 213 # 192 DPI @ 3200x1800
I tried this value and the fonts were grotesquely large on the login
Not a surprise to me.
page but once logged in I saw no difference.
Shock. :-( What did/do "xrdb --query | grep dpi" and "xdpyinfo | egrep 'dimen|ution'" report? Do they match what is reported if you load http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html in a Gecko browser (Firefox, SeaMonkey, others) or Konqueror w/ KHTML, but not Chrom* or Opera.
I've made a little progress but let me give you some results:
xrdb yields dpi = 120 xdpyinfo yields: 3200x1800 pixels (270x216 millimeters) resolution 301x212 dots per inch
however:
your website yields what seem to me correct values except for dpi. it seems not to capture the dpi values at all but maybe I misinterpret: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--R0Wp8z2MkaTVtNmZ0TnRPNjg/view?usp=sharing
I've commented out HorizSync and VertRefresh though I did run
hwinfo --monitor | grep -A6 'river Inf'
and it says "Size: 293x165 mm"
so there's some data (or there're some data) and a couple of incongruities.
I'll stop here and talk about the progress I alluded to earlier.
I think I have kde apps in ok shape by fooling with fonts and setting fonts to
System Settings 120 dpi
what doesn't work is management of LibreOffice, Firefox, the intro display for Trinity Control Center and various apps which I think are GTK (and then there's that grotesquely large login page).
I'll be installing Apache Office which I prefer but suspect it will have the same problem as LO.
it seems to me I have to fuss with GTK.
or I may follow your advice below and alter the display mode. that's for tomorrow or the next day.
I may return the laptop.
f.
should tell you what they are, and if it does, then it confirms they /should/ not be necessary, that is, if hwinfo even ships in Exegnu. Try:
ddcprobe ! grep monitorr
You can manufacture working ranges from the timings listed in Xorg.0.log, or from verbose xrandr output. OTOH, because that display is such high resolution, proper ranges might be unusual.
I have also entered:
Option "PreferredMode" "3200x1800"
It's probably superfluous, but couldn't hurt either.
any further guidance welcome.
Another option is to /not/ use the native 3200x1800 display mode. On a 13.3" inch screen that's way out of normal range for most developers to try to emulate to make everything work nicely visually. Unless your eyes are extraordinary, you are likely not to notice much if any difference by employing 1920x1080 instead:
Option "PreferredMode" "1920x1080"
With any luck and good eyes, you wouldn't need to fuss with DPI or suffer extra tiny fonts. To go this route you should be able to dispense with xorg.conf entirely and make select that resolution in Trinity Control Center -> Peripherals -> Display -> Size & Orientation -> Screen Size. On such a tiny screen, you might find you like 1600x900 better yet.
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-05 00:37 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata wrote:
Save http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround to use as an /etc/X11/xorg.conf template. Create in it an uncommented DisplaySize line. Using half the values reported above that produce 96x96 /should/ produce 192x192 as a place to start your experiments:
DisplaySize 423 213 # 192 DPI @ 3200x1800
I tried this value and the fonts were grotesquely large on the login
Not a surprise to me.
page but once logged in I saw no difference.
Shock. :-( What did/do "xrdb --query | grep dpi" and "xdpyinfo | egrep 'dimen|ution'" report? Do they match what is reported if you load http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html in a Gecko browser (Firefox, SeaMonkey, others) or Konqueror w/ KHTML, but not Chrom* or Opera.
I've made a little progress but let me give you some results:
xrdb yields dpi = 120
That's the expected result of using TDE Control Center to force 120 DPI (through Xft.dpi).
xdpyinfo yields: 3200x1800 pixels (270x216 millimeters)
Peculiar. 270x216 is a 1.25/1 ratio, 5/4, normally only seen with 1280x1024 resolution displays. 216 is a tad taller than that of a 1920x1080 17" screen.
resolution 301x212 dots per inch
A bizarre ratio: 1.42:1.
however:
your website yields what seem to me correct values except for dpi. it
DPI and default font px size reporting require you let the scripts run.
seems not to capture the dpi values at all but maybe I misinterpret: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--R0Wp8z2MkaTVtNmZ0TnRPNjg/view?usp=sharing
Interesting. Screen totals are correctly reported. Available and Viewport show exactly the values expected for a somewhat common screen size of 2560x1440. I have to wonder how you managed to get a Konq window to open at that size on a 3200x1800 screen. Odds must be astronomical that it happened by accident.
I've commented out HorizSync and VertRefresh though I did run
hwinfo --monitor | grep -A6 'river Inf'
and it says "Size: 293x165 mm"
That's about as close as Xorg ever gets to accurate. My calculator says a 13.3" screen should measure 294.44 by 165.62. Is that the result of using DisplaySize in xorg.conf set to manufacturer's screen size specifications?
so there's some data (or there're some data) and a couple of incongruities.
I'll stop here and talk about the progress I alluded to earlier.
I think I have kde apps in ok shape by fooling with fonts and setting fonts to
System Settings 120 dpi
what doesn't work is management of LibreOffice, Firefox, the intro display for Trinity Control Center and various apps which I think are GTK (and then there's that grotesquely large login page).
I don't see exegnu on DistroWatch, so without it installed, or more information on its web site than I've seen, I don't know if GTK3 is installed or what toolkit your LO or FF packages are built using. It looks like GTK apps are just not capable of reasonably responding to a display of such high DPI on exegnu, or maybe without being run in Gnome or Mate or other GTK DE or absent some unusual manual gtk configuration or additional package support. Your inability to find any gtk*3* packages installed is somewhat puzzling. A distro released only late last year ought to be providing at least basic GTK3 support.
I'll be installing Apache Office which I prefer but suspect it will have the same problem as LO.
it seems to me I have to fuss with GTK.
Maybe searching in OO or LO forums for HiDPI discussions would prove fruitful.
Maybe we need to have a look at your xorg.conf if you're still using it.
At least let's see Xorg.0.log generated by the best configuration you've come up with so far, with or without an xorg.conf.
or I may follow your advice below and alter the display mode. that's > for tomorrow or the next day.
...
I may return the laptop.
Assuming running at lower than native resolution won't be acceptable to you, that sounds like a good idea, unless you have really really good young eyes and better tolerance for things tiny than the existence of this thread suggests. It seems something in some software component, or maybe more than one, is just too broken for working on a 276 physical DPI screen.
Is Windows still on it? What are its display/screen and font settings?
On Sat, 5 Aug 2017, Felix Miata wrote:
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-05 00:37 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata wrote:
Save http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/Linux/xorg.conf-minimal-EDID-workaround to use as an /etc/X11/xorg.conf template. Create in it an uncommented DisplaySize line. Using half the values reported above that produce 96x96 /should/ produce 192x192 as a place to start your experiments:
DisplaySize 423 213 # 192 DPI @ 3200x1800
I tried this value and the fonts were grotesquely large on the login
Not a surprise to me.
page but once logged in I saw no difference.
Shock. :-( What did/do "xrdb --query | grep dpi" and "xdpyinfo | egrep 'dimen|ution'" report? Do they match what is reported if you load http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html in a Gecko browser (Firefox, SeaMonkey, others) or Konqueror w/ KHTML, but not Chrom* or Opera.
I've made a little progress but let me give you some results:
xrdb yields dpi = 120
That's the expected result of using TDE Control Center to force 120 DPI (through Xft.dpi).
xdpyinfo yields: 3200x1800 pixels (270x216 millimeters)
Peculiar. 270x216 is a 1.25/1 ratio, 5/4, normally only seen with 1280x1024 resolution displays. 216 is a tad taller than that of a 1920x1080 17" screen.
resolution 301x212 dots per inch
A bizarre ratio: 1.42:1.
however:
your website yields what seem to me correct values except for dpi. it
DPI and default font px size reporting require you let the scripts run.
sorry, I missed this - where are the scripts?
I won't comment on the rest of your email until later today or tomorrow but I wanted to comment on my set-up, which is probably somewhat messed up.
I can log into Mint and into Debian Desktop Environment and also into KDE4 Plasma. I'm looking at the latter now and stuff like Pan and Firefox are tiny and have some kind of theme problem.
Windows 10 looks and behaves ok; it is hard for me to find the display information beyond the elementary stuff.
frankly, what I think I should do is start over again. I have too much playing in the config backyard. I have two partitions to play with. my unease about re-installing is due solely to my unfamiliarity with the mysteries of UEFI. (I need to keep Windows 10 for now; I'm researching the possibility of installing Windows 7 instead though.)
I'll make decisions later today - either try to solve problems or scratch and re-do.
I shouldn't forget to thank you for the very good advice!
f.
seems not to capture the dpi values at all but maybe I misinterpret: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--R0Wp8z2MkaTVtNmZ0TnRPNjg/view?usp=sharing
Interesting. Screen totals are correctly reported. Available and Viewport show exactly the values expected for a somewhat common screen size of 2560x1440. I have to wonder how you managed to get a Konq window to open at that size on a 3200x1800 screen. Odds must be astronomical that it happened by accident.
I've commented out HorizSync and VertRefresh though I did run
hwinfo --monitor | grep -A6 'river Inf'
and it says "Size: 293x165 mm"
That's about as close as Xorg ever gets to accurate. My calculator says a 13.3" screen should measure 294.44 by 165.62. Is that the result of using DisplaySize in xorg.conf set to manufacturer's screen size specifications?
so there's some data (or there're some data) and a couple of incongruities.
I'll stop here and talk about the progress I alluded to earlier.
I think I have kde apps in ok shape by fooling with fonts and setting fonts to
System Settings 120 dpi
what doesn't work is management of LibreOffice, Firefox, the intro display for Trinity Control Center and various apps which I think are GTK (and then there's that grotesquely large login page).
I don't see exegnu on DistroWatch, so without it installed, or more information on its web site than I've seen, I don't know if GTK3 is installed or what toolkit your LO or FF packages are built using. It looks like GTK apps are just not capable of reasonably responding to a display of such high DPI on exegnu, or maybe without being run in Gnome or Mate or other GTK DE or absent some unusual manual gtk configuration or additional package support. Your inability to find any gtk*3* packages installed is somewhat puzzling. A distro released only late last year ought to be providing at least basic GTK3 support.
I'll be installing Apache Office which I prefer but suspect it will have the same problem as LO.
it seems to me I have to fuss with GTK.
Maybe searching in OO or LO forums for HiDPI discussions would prove fruitful.
Maybe we need to have a look at your xorg.conf if you're still using it.
At least let's see Xorg.0.log generated by the best configuration you've come up with so far, with or without an xorg.conf.
or I may follow your advice below and alter the display mode. that's > for tomorrow or the next day.
...
I may return the laptop.
Assuming running at lower than native resolution won't be acceptable to you, that sounds like a good idea, unless you have really really good young eyes and better tolerance for things tiny than the existence of this thread suggests. It seems something in some software component, or maybe more than one, is just too broken for working on a 276 physical DPI screen.
Is Windows still on it? What are its display/screen and font settings?
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-05 02:42 (UTC-0400):
your website yields what seem to me correct values except for dpi. it
DPI and default font px size reporting require you let the scripts run.
sorry, I missed this - where are the scripts?
Embedded in the page. Konq by default has scripts (JavaScript) disabled.
On Sat, 5 Aug 2017, Felix Miata wrote:
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-05 00:37 (UTC-0400):
[ -- deleted material -- ]
I've made a little progress but let me give you some results: xrdb yields dpi = 120
I have some new results to share.
before:
xdpyinfo yields: 3200x1800 pixels (270x216 millimeters)
Peculiar. 270x216 is a 1.25/1 ratio, 5/4, normally only seen with 1280x1024 resolution displays. 216 is a tad taller than that of a 1920x1080 17" screen.
resolution 301x212 dots per inch
A bizarre ratio: 1.42:1.
now I get:
resolution: 96x96 dots per inch dimensions: 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 mm)
why the difference? well, the terminal screen you get after shutting down X is really, really tiny and evidently, in one of my attempts to do something, I deleted /home/davisf! quite shocked when I couldn't log back in.
luckily, it's a 'virgin' system so no loss. I adduser dummy, deluser davisf and then adduser davisf and was back.
I reinstalled (apt-get) gdm and was able to log into Debian Desktop Environment fine; its dimensions were ok (as before).
I then purged tde/tdm and installed again (apt-get). logged in ok with the usual font problems. then I punched around rather unsystematically trying different font sizes and also using 'GTK Styles and Fonts'; did a liberal dosage of 'about:config' in Firefox and fooling with kicker or whatever it's called.
I wish I had taken more careful note because inevitably I will have to reproduce it all sometime. but the result is a pretty decent desktop.
here is what I still am unhappy with:
(a) though I can change most of the fonts in Pan, I cannot change the menu fonts; same for LibreOffice. I still need to get Apache Office up to see what it does.
(b) if I kill X or boot into terminal, I get that teensy-weensy font on the terminal. I recall you discussing some kernel fixes for this....
if I could only find where the magic is for GTK config files. I do have
.gtkrc-2.0.kde4 .gtkrc-2.0.kde-kde4 .config/gtk-3.0
if I only know what recipes to cook with.
I have to run out now so will respond to a couple of points you made a bit later but wanted to get out this report.
f.
however:
your website yields what seem to me correct values except for dpi. it
DPI and default font px size reporting require you let the scripts run.
seems not to capture the dpi values at all but maybe I misinterpret: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--R0Wp8z2MkaTVtNmZ0TnRPNjg/view?usp=sharing
Interesting. Screen totals are correctly reported. Available and Viewport show exactly the values expected for a somewhat common screen size of 2560x1440. I have to wonder how you managed to get a Konq window to open at that size on a 3200x1800 screen. Odds must be astronomical that it happened by accident.
I've commented out HorizSync and VertRefresh though I did run
hwinfo --monitor | grep -A6 'river Inf'
and it says "Size: 293x165 mm"
That's about as close as Xorg ever gets to accurate. My calculator says a 13.3" screen should measure 294.44 by 165.62. Is that the result of using DisplaySize in xorg.conf set to manufacturer's screen size specifications?
so there's some data (or there're some data) and a couple of incongruities.
I'll stop here and talk about the progress I alluded to earlier.
I think I have kde apps in ok shape by fooling with fonts and setting fonts to
System Settings 120 dpi
what doesn't work is management of LibreOffice, Firefox, the intro display for Trinity Control Center and various apps which I think are GTK (and then there's that grotesquely large login page).
I don't see exegnu on DistroWatch, so without it installed, or more information on its web site than I've seen, I don't know if GTK3 is installed or what toolkit your LO or FF packages are built using. It looks like GTK apps are just not capable of reasonably responding to a display of such high DPI on exegnu, or maybe without being run in Gnome or Mate or other GTK DE or absent some unusual manual gtk configuration or additional package support. Your inability to find any gtk*3* packages installed is somewhat puzzling. A distro released only late last year ought to be providing at least basic GTK3 support.
I'll be installing Apache Office which I prefer but suspect it will have the same problem as LO.
it seems to me I have to fuss with GTK.
Maybe searching in OO or LO forums for HiDPI discussions would prove fruitful.
Maybe we need to have a look at your xorg.conf if you're still using it.
At least let's see Xorg.0.log generated by the best configuration you've come up with so far, with or without an xorg.conf.
or I may follow your advice below and alter the display mode. that's > for tomorrow or the next day.
...
I may return the laptop.
Assuming running at lower than native resolution won't be acceptable to you, that sounds like a good idea, unless you have really really good young eyes and better tolerance for things tiny than the existence of this thread suggests. It seems something in some software component, or maybe more than one, is just too broken for working on a 276 physical DPI screen.
Is Windows still on it? What are its display/screen and font settings?
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-06 18:33 (UTC-0400):
now I get:
resolution: 96x96 dots per inch dimensions: 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 mm)
Without knowing the content of xorg.conf, any optional startup xrandr command and seeing Xorg.0.log, there's nothing more for me to say about that response than what I wrote about it upthread.
why the difference? well, the terminal screen you get after shutting down X is really, really tiny and evidently, in one of my attempts to do something, I deleted /home/davisf! quite shocked when I couldn't log back in.
What's a terminal screen?
The font used by an Xterm can be controlled, within limits, through ~/.Xresources. Mine have:
xterm*faceName: Droid Sans Mono:antialias=true xterm*faceSize: 11
The font that is used on the vttys (traditionally tty[1-6]) can be changed multiple ways:
1-on a per boot basis, or repeatedly via bootloader configuration, by keeping the kernel's default size 16 font and applying a lower resolution video mode on the vttys through a cmdline option:
a: vga= (e.g. 788, 0x317, 794) applicable if KMS is disabled, and for the initial boot message moments if not disabled b: video= (e.g. 1024x768 or 1440x900) applicable when KMS is not disabled, regardless of bootloader used (my preference) c: with grub2 and without KMS disabled, within limits, through /etc/default/grub (self-documenting) and grub2-mkconfig
2-by configuring vttys to use a font larger than size 16. setfont can do this on the fly using /usr/bin/setfont. (I never choose this method)
...> (b) if I kill X or boot into terminal, I get that teensy-weensy font
on the terminal. I recall you discussing some kernel fixes for this....
As above.
On Sun, 6 Aug 2017, Felix Miata wrote:
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-06 18:33 (UTC-0400):
now I get:
resolution: 96x96 dots per inch dimensions: 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 mm)
Without knowing the content of xorg.conf, any optional startup xrandr command and seeing Xorg.0.log, there's nothing more for me to say about that response than what I wrote about it upthread.
I've posted Xorg.o.log and output of xrandr here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B--R0Wp8z2MkWGRYYnA2WTY4eDg?usp=sharing
why the difference? well, the terminal screen you get after shutting down X is really, really tiny and evidently, in one of my attempts to do something, I deleted /home/davisf! quite shocked when I couldn't log back in.
What's a terminal screen?
I meant tty or console, especially on booting up. I've fixed this satisfactorily via
sudo dpkg-reconfigure console-setup
and chose Terminus.
ok, that's progress; still tiny fonts in the menus of GTK apps but also elsewhere, e.g. in some menus of Firefox still; tiny icons on 'kicker' and elsewhere. strange tiny fonts on the opening page of Trinity Control Center.
I need to figure out GTK.
f.
The font used by an Xterm can be controlled, within limits, through ~/.Xresources. Mine have:
xterm*faceName: Droid Sans Mono:antialias=true xterm*faceSize: 11
The font that is used on the vttys (traditionally tty[1-6]) can be changed multiple ways:
1-on a per boot basis, or repeatedly via bootloader configuration, by keeping the kernel's default size 16 font and applying a lower resolution video mode on the vttys through a cmdline option:
a: vga= (e.g. 788, 0x317, 794) applicable if KMS is disabled, and for the initial boot message moments if not disabled b: video= (e.g. 1024x768 or 1440x900) applicable when KMS is not disabled, regardless of bootloader used (my preference) c: with grub2 and without KMS disabled, within limits, through /etc/default/grub (self-documenting) and grub2-mkconfig
2-by configuring vttys to use a font larger than size 16. setfont can do this on the fly using /usr/bin/setfont. (I never choose this method)
...> (b) if I kill X or boot into terminal, I get that teensy-weensy font
on the terminal. I recall you discussing some kernel fixes for this....
As above.
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-08 02:36 (UTC-0400):
Felix Miata wrote:
Felmon Davis composed on 2017-08-06 18:33 (UTC-0400):
now I get:
resolution: 96x96 dots per inch dimensions: 3200x1800 pixels (846x476 mm)
Without knowing the content of xorg.conf, any optional startup xrandr command and seeing Xorg.0.log, there's nothing more for me to say about that response than what I wrote about it upthread.
I've posted Xorg.o.log and output of xrandr here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B--R0Wp8z2MkWGRYYnA2WTY4eDg?usp=sharing
There are still not enough puzzle pieces collected together to get a decent handle on how to proceed. The Firefox UI and window decorations you omitted would have provided crucial context. Compare to having nothing altered except for TDE fonts enlarged from default 9 to 10 and TDE DPI set to 120: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/felmon1-1800.jpg
Was your Xft.dpi = 96 here? 120? Something else? (Force DPI in font settings sets Xft.dpi.) Which if any Firefox font settings have you changed? Do you have an xorg.conf, and if yes, does it have a DisplaySize set, and if yes, to what? Have you changed Firefox's layout.css.dpi and/or layout.css.devPixelsPerPx from defaults in about:config? The xrandr screen and the image of dpi-screen-window in Firefox can't fully be reconciled using the tools I have. Firefox says the screen is 1600x900 and font size is 16px because its applying a 2:1 device to logical px ratio. It's doing that because your 276 DPI screen falls short of a 3:1 ratio by 12px, and it rounds to lowest integer multiple of 96. Why the reported DPI is 56 I can't imagine.
...still tiny fonts in the menus of GTK apps but also elsewhere, e.g. in some menus of Firefox still; tiny icons on 'kicker' and elsewhere. strange tiny fonts on the opening page of Trinity Control Center.
I need to figure out GTK.
I think you need to figure out how to get all TDE fonts right first. As long as it's your default session type, it's your baseline.
On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 02:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Felmon Davis davisf@union.edu wrote:
ok, that's progress; still tiny fonts in the menus of GTK apps but also elsewhere, e.g. in some menus of Firefox still; tiny icons on 'kicker' and elsewhere. strange tiny fonts on the opening page of Trinity Control Center.
I need to figure out GTK.
I noticed that in you entire quest you never mentioned /etc/fonts and/or ./config/fontconfig. There is a dpi property that if set in configs will override what is requested by application. search for 'name="dpi"' through all fontconfig files to check if you have not set it somewhere.
On Tue, 8 Aug 2017, Nick Koretsky wrote:
On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 02:36:46 -0400 (EDT) Felmon Davis davisf@union.edu wrote:
ok, that's progress; still tiny fonts in the menus of GTK apps but also elsewhere, e.g. in some menus of Firefox still; tiny icons on 'kicker' and elsewhere. strange tiny fonts on the opening page of Trinity Control Center.
I need to figure out GTK.
I noticed that in you entire quest you never mentioned /etc/fonts and/or ./config/fontconfig. There is a dpi property that if set in configs will override what is requested by application. search for 'name="dpi"' through all fontconfig files to check if you have not set it somewhere.
so I've looked about, not sure I've found every nook and cranny, but haven't found settings in the places you've mentioned and elsewhere.
have made some progress though.
(1) I took measure of the screen; I think I could have used Felix's page but stumbled on https://www.infobyip.com/detectdisplaysize.php
9.6" diagonal; 8.3" width; 4.7" heigth
I set '/etc/X11/xorg.conf/90-monitor'
to: DisplaySize 294 165
(2) I turned off 'Force fonts DPI' in the Trinity Control Center and set dpi to 190 via
echo Xft.dpi: 190 | xrdb -merge
(3) did some settings in 'GTK Styles and Fonts' in TCC; GTK2 fonts are supposed to use Sans Serif 15, Redmond is style; GTK3 is on style TraditionalOk. fooled around re-sizing 'kicker' and with configs in some programs case by case.
these measures cleared up most but not all problems. some programs still misbehave:
(a) Gimp and LibreOffice have grotesquely large menu fonts. still can't quite find pertinent gtk or program settings. I have install Apache Office yet.
(b) icons are too small in Pan; probably something can be fixed in its config. not terribly important. some other icons elsewhere also small.
I believe there are a couple of other issues I don't find now in my notes. of course I haven't opened everything that's been installed by default, most of which I will remove anyway. ah, e.g. I see something called 'Music Player' has teeny fonts. I likely won't use it but I'm discontent that I haven't developed a more systematic way to get control of the interface. I guess some of this requires program-by-program skirmishing.
I'll explore more and pin things down.
Cinnamon runs ok; next run I'll reconnoitre its gtk settings.
thank everyone for advice and help.
f.
On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 18:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Felmon Davis davisf@union.edu wrote:
if I could only find where the magic is for GTK config files. I do have
.gtkrc-2.0.kde4 .gtkrc-2.0.kde-kde4 .config/gtk-3.0
if I only know what recipes to cook with.
For GTK2, look for a "gtk-font-name" line somewhere, or experiment with adding one (frex, I have gtk-font-name="Times New Roman, 12").
I ended up writing my own bare-bones theme for GTK3 to force a specific font and colour scheme. Of course, the library shifted out from under it and it now requires maintenance (which I have yet to get around to because I use very few GTK3 applications).
E. Liddell
On Mon, 7 Aug 2017, E. Liddell wrote:
On Sun, 6 Aug 2017 18:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Felmon Davis davisf@union.edu wrote:
if I could only find where the magic is for GTK config files. I do have
.gtkrc-2.0.kde4 .gtkrc-2.0.kde-kde4 .config/gtk-3.0
if I only know what recipes to cook with.
For GTK2, look for a "gtk-font-name" line somewhere, or experiment with adding one (frex, I have gtk-font-name="Times New Roman, 12").
for some reason your emails always get trapped as spam (by gmail) so I often overlook them!
I ended up writing my own bare-bones theme for GTK3 to force a specific font and colour scheme. Of course, the library shifted out from under it and it now requires maintenance (which I have yet to get around to because I use very few GTK3 applications).
I'm not sure I only have a GTK configuration problem since tiny fonts and icons affect 'kicker' and various submenus and some KDE apps, e.g. Kate.
I'll play with gtk-font-name, and the others.
this is turning out being one of my trickiest installs.
-
deloptes -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata -
Felmon Davis -
Nick Koretsky