I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review
On Dec 1, 2023, 6:47 AM, Felix Miata via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review
-------------------
So weird seeing CDE, an actual desktop from the 90s -- when 100 megahertz (with an "M") CPUs were considered powerful as hell, Unix was far more prevalent in workstations, and Linux was just some weird hobbyist project by some Finnish university student -- using more RAM than any of the lightweight DEs, Trinity included.
I get why, though. Rewriting legacy code from -- at the time -- nearly 20 years ago for 64-bit systems and optimizing it all accordingly is a hard ask, even as a preservation effort from an era when skeuomorphism was being dragged out kicking and screaming.
And I'm saying that as someone on the outside looking in. It's just weird -- surreal, even -- to see. But, I digress. xD
- hunter graham
Anno domini 2023 Fri, 01 Dec 13:53:21 +0000 Hunter Graham via tde-users scripsit:
[...]
And I'm saying that as someone on the outside looking in. It's just weird -- surreal, even -- to see. But, I digress. xD
I worked on that beautiful DE on HP Apollos when the grass was greener and the summers hotter.
Nik
- hunter graham
-- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ...
Always nice to see my favorite project get some exposure! Cool to see that other people recognize how slim TDE runs as well.
Speaking of resource usage... I just built a PC with Ryzen 9 7900x and 32GB of ram, amazing how fast TDE runs alongside Arch on this machine. It is so damn fast
On Friday 01 December 2023 04:47:49 Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review
We all already know what the rest of the world is just beginning to rediscover.
I am curious, though, to try out those two lightweight competitors, Lumina and Enlightenment, just for kicks, but have only heard about them, only now have found their home pages by searching.
My guess is that they might be lightweight, but also ugly. I already prefer TDE over others I've seen, based only on their licensing. I am glad that TDE sticks with GNU/Linux and stays free/libre, and not merely "open source" or some other lesser standards.
Has anybody else tried out these other lightweight DEs, Lumina and Enlightenment? Just wondering, but I doubt I can be tempted away from TDE's beauty and simplicity.
Bill
I tried Enlightenment for a bit, feels like an actual blast to the past and not in a good way to me. TDE is a much more feature complete, and usable DE in my opinion.
I am probably biased, but it just lacked the polish that TDE has
Anno domini 2023 Fri, 1 Dec 12:42:49 -0800 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Has anybody else tried out these other lightweight DEs, Lumina and Enlightenment? Just wondering, but I doubt I can be tempted away from TDE's beauty and simplicity.
I tried Enligtenment in the 90's, at that time it was basicly the only WM that had a skulls and bone theme as window decoration. Just imagine, not staight window borders, but irregular! Well, it was the classic "eyecandy but no function" problem. Just as Windowmaker (not on the list) and GNOME ...
Nik
Bill
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-- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ...
On Friday 01 December 2023 13:18:15 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
Anno domini 2023 Fri, 1 Dec 12:42:49 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Has anybody else tried out these other lightweight DEs, Lumina and Enlightenment? Just wondering, but I doubt I can be tempted away from TDE's beauty and simplicity.
I tried Enligtenment in the 90's, at that time it was basicly the only WM that had a skulls and bone theme as window decoration. Just imagine, not staight window borders, but irregular! Well, it was the classic "eyecandy but no function" problem. Just as Windowmaker (not on the list) and GNOME ...
Nik
Yeah, I just took a virtual tour, and have seen enough. Along with the not-quite-totally-free license, those other guys just look like XFCE or LXDE redone with some new branding. Nothing substantial there to bother about.
And as for Q4OS and other OS choices, I will stick with Devuan, or some other Debian-type OS. It might be that in the future Devuan goes the same way as Debian, but I feel sure that there will always be a fork made by users who want to keep what works best for them.
Once I got to this place (the perfect combination of OS and DE), I never could see a reason to change.
Bill
On Saturday 02 December 2023 01.57:58 William Morder via tde-users wrote:
I will stick with Devuan, or some other Debian-type OS. (...) Once I got to this place (the perfect combination of OS and DE), I never could see a reason to change.
Bill
Just as information: MX Linux comes with systemd installed but not activated. Not sure yet what use there is to have it if it's not the init system, but it's not running (tried a snap the other day, and the error I got was linked to snap requiring systemd).
Thierry
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On Friday 01 December 2023, William Morder via tde-users was heard to say:
I am curious, though, to try out those two lightweight competitors, Lumina and Enlightenment, just for kicks, but have only heard about them, only now have found their home pages by searching.
The Bodhi distribution with Enlightenment was very pleasant to use when I tried it out. Debian has spoiled me in most every way, so I only use other distributions if required, or to try them out for fun.
https://anarchic-order.blogspot.com/2011/03/bodhi-linux-017-and-enlightenmen...
Curt-
- -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"
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On Friday 01 December 2023, Curt Howland was heard to say:
Enlightenment...
On this subject, I just checked and "OpenLook" olwm is no longer in Debian.
It was there last I looked, but the last I looked was 2008.
It's what I cut my UNIX teeth on in 1992 working on SunOS.
Curt-
- -- You may my glories and my state dispose, But not my griefs; still am I king of those. --- William Shakespeare, "Richard II"
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 12:42:49 -0800 William Morder via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
I am curious, though, to try out those two lightweight competitors, Lumina and Enlightenment, just for kicks, but have only heard about them, only now have found their home pages by searching.
I used Lumina as a backup environment when I was setting up my current machine some years ago. It was . . . okay, but didn't make that much of an impression, to be honest. Minimal level of software included. Notably, it doesn't have its own terminal—I had to pick a separate one to use with it.
Short version: It's somewhere between LXDE and fancier WMs like Fluxbox in terms of features. As an application launcher, it's functional enough. As a DE, it's anemic.
E. Liddell
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023, Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review
Is anybody familiar with Q4OS?
Gianluca
-- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users composed on 2023-12-01 13:47 (UTC-0800):
Felix Miata wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review
Is anybody familiar with Q4OS?
I had some experience long ago: https://sourceforge.net/p/q4os/tickets/44/ https://sourceforge.net/p/q4os/tickets/45/ https://sourceforge.net/p/q4os/tickets/46/
I have no idea why it should be any better or need to be yet another "unique" distro rather than just Plasma and/or TDE on a minimal straight Debian installation.
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 17:04:18 -0500 Felix Miata via tde-users users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users composed on 2023-12-01 13:47 (UTC-0800):
Is anybody familiar with Q4OS?
I had some experience long ago: https://sourceforge.net/p/q4os/tickets/44/ https://sourceforge.net/p/q4os/tickets/45/ https://sourceforge.net/p/q4os/tickets/46/
I have no idea why it should be any better or need to be yet another "unique" distro rather than just Plasma and/or TDE on a minimal straight Debian installation.
Ease of installation for newcomers to Linux would be the only reason I can think of.
E. Liddell
On Friday 01 December 2023 22.47:10 Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users wrote:
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023, Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review
Is anybody familiar with Q4OS?
Gianluca
Tried to use it some years ago. It did come with TDE but they did not install everything, I had to install them myself, and some settings were not what I like, so in the end there was more work than installing TDE myself on Debian.
This may have changes since, however.
Thierry
I remember my first installation was SuSE 6.1 (or maybe 6.2) and I vaguely remember that it used fvwm2. But that is a window manager, so not sure what the desktop environment was at that time. I remember a lot of people using it on SUN SPARC workstations while most used CDE in the 90s and early 2000s (until Linux completely replaced expensive UNIX workstation).
fvwm2 is still available in openSUSE, but I'm not sure whether it is normally used on its own as an application launcher or within a DE. There is also fvwm3.
Gianluca
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023, Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
I also noticed that only TDE and Enlightment offer a preview of the different desktops in the task bar. This is something that I would miss. I like to see what windows I have open in other desktops.
Gianluca
On Sat, 2 Dec 2023, Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
I remember my first installation was SuSE 6.1 (or maybe 6.2) and I vaguely remember that it used fvwm2. But that is a window manager, so not sure what the desktop environment was at that time. I remember a lot of people using it on SUN SPARC workstations while most used CDE in the 90s and early 2000s (until Linux completely replaced expensive UNIX workstation).
fvwm2 is still available in openSUSE, but I'm not sure whether it is normally used on its own as an application launcher or within a DE. There is also fvwm3.
Gianluca
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023, Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
For it was KDE 1.0 the day it was released in July 1998. Was running Caldera OpenLinux, 1.2 I think. (It was before the now-bankrupt Darl McBride dragged that fine distribution to the dark side, unsuccessfully sued everyone in sight -- including trying to collect money from everyone running any form of Linux -- and made himself rightly and widely hated. But I digress.) I was running whatever that NextSTEP clone thing atop whatever window manager was the default on COL at the time. All the configuration files for pretty much everything, including KDE, were human-readable text files. (I had a huge pissing match with the devs when the KMail address book ceased to be a simple list of names and addresses. Then again, my Firefox bookmarks file continues to be a text file from the earliest Netscape for OS/2. Some of the links no longer work after 30 years. Oops, another digression.)
Little-remembered but not terrible was the commercial Looking Glass desktop that Caldera shipped in some 1.x versions. It looked like Windows 3.0 but did not act like it. Still, it quelled the abject terror of uners who had bought a thick book with a CD at the back and had blown away everything recognizable from their 386sx-16 machines.
Looking Glass: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSy-9QRTvRs
It was when we all used NEdit, because it worked in a way we understood, but also because when you looked at the "About" menu item it said that it came from Fermilab, which made us feel very cool. Which, of course, we were.<g>
dep Pictures: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/depscribe/album Column: https://ofb.biz/author/dep/
Anno domini 14:42:25 Sat, 2 Dec 2023 -0800 (PST) Gianluca Interlandi via tde-users scripsit:
I remember my first installation was SuSE 6.1 (or maybe 6.2) and I vaguely remember that it used fvwm2. But that is a window manager, so not sure what the desktop environment was at that time. I remember a lot of people using it on SUN SPARC workstations while most used CDE in the 90s and early 2000s (until Linux completely replaced expensive UNIX workstation).
fvwm2 is still available in openSUSE, but I'm not sure whether it is normally used on its own as an application launcher or within a DE. There is also fvwm3.
Down memory lane ... FVWM is really a cool thing. In the 90s - when SuSE CD bundles were called after the year of release (SuSE 1995 - I still have a shrinkwraped original in the archive) fvwm with the default ugliest-of-all colorscheme was used as a default. How I hated the look, how I loved to hack it :) And then there were the "emulate Windows95" mockups (look ok, functionality not so). OpenLook with it's 2 versions of windows mangers that nobody could really knew why - but IMO it was the second "real" DE besides CDE ... well, besides it was easy to be programmed it's probably a good thing kids don't get exposed to this stuff any more, it'll leave permanent brain damage.
I have FVWM on my FreeBSD x61 though, highly customized (as this is what FVWM is good for). In fact, I can do things with it that I cannot do on TDE, but that's a different storry :)
Nik
Gianluca
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023, Felix Miata via tde-users wrote:
I only just found this. Possibly same with the rest of us? https://eylenburg.github.io/de_comparison.htm#Review -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science.
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A.
tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
-- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ...
Anno domini 2023 Sun, 3 Dec 18:56:37 +0100 Michele Calgaro via tde-users scripsit:
On 2023/12/03 09:09 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
In fact, I can do things with it that I cannot do on TDE, but that's a different storry 🙂
What's the story Nik? I am interested :-) Cheers Michele
Oh, it's just on building appliances. Well, most of it.
FVWM uses the Xorg root window, not an extra "desktop" window. In normal usecases this is totally irrelevant. But if you need to present always-available data e.g. with root-tail or survailance cameras this is bad.
I can build GUIs with FVWM. Sure, I can use basicly any X11 toolkit do do it, but then I have to take care of the wm/de that it does what I want it to do, e.g. windows properties, placement, z-order, ... so instead I do it with FVWM.
These make FVWM for me a tool to make appliances that do what I want them to do. That is, remove everything the user could do wrong ... well, most of the time it would be easier just to remove the user :)
And for me using fvwm: these are 2 older screenshots (there are still some desktop icons and conky is singlecolored). I love to have a terminal window without title bar and different decorations. And a big pager in the background. And a transparent borderless terminal that lives in the root window (not on the screenshots).
That said FVWM and my X61 are somehow like visiting an alternative world where the twin towers are still standing (wasn't there an episode of star trek)?
Nik
Anno domini 2023 Sun, 3 Dec 18:56:37 +0100 Michele Calgaro via tde-users scripsit:
On 2023/12/03 09:09 AM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
In fact, I can do things with it that I cannot do on TDE, but that's a different storry 🙂
What's the story Nik? I am interested :-) Cheers Michele
Oh, it's just on building appliances. Well, most of it.
FVWM uses the Xorg root window, not an extra "desktop" window. In normal usecases this is totally irrelevant. But if you need to present always-available data e.g. with root-tail or survailance cameras this is bad.
I can build GUIs with FVWM. Sure, I can use basicly any X11 toolkit do do it, but then I have to take care of the wm/de that it does what I want it to do, e.g. windows properties, placement, z-order, ... so instead I do it with FVWM.
These make FVWM for me a tool to make appliances that do what I want them to do. That is, remove everything the user could do wrong ... well, most of the time it would be easier just to remove the user :)
And for me using fvwm: these are 2 older screenshots (there are still some desktop icons and conky is singlecolored). I love to have a terminal window without title bar and different decorations. And a big pager in the background. And a transparent borderless terminal that lives in the root window (not on the screenshots).
That said FVWM and my X61 are somehow like visiting an alternative world where the twin towers are still standing (wasn't there an episode of star trek)?
Nik
On 2023/12/04 01:43 PM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
These make FVWM for me a tool to make appliances that do what I want them to do. That is, remove everything the user could do wrong ... well, most of the time it would be easier just to remove the user 🙂
Thanks for the explanation Nik, indeed an interesting and useful use case. Yes, my experience says user is the reason of most problems :-)
Cheers Michele
-
Curt Howland -
dep -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Felix Miata -
Gianluca Interlandi -
Hunter Graham -
jacobheinrich＠hotmail.com -
Michele Calgaro -
Thierry de Coulon -
William Morder