Timothy Pearson wrote:
Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to root? Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser" icon is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the trash or delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on Debian;
they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply deselect the icons you don't want to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to the old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would other
icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group: users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows: OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
Timothy Pearson wrote:
Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to root? Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser" icon is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the trash or delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on Debian;
they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply deselect the icons you don't want to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to the old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would other
icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group: users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows: OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it into a disable but that would leave the user ignorant of how to restore it. I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Perhaps the menu item should be "Enable/Disable Desktop Icons" or we may simply make it pertain to the specific icon and have a "Hide This Icon" context menu item. That would still leave users ignorant of how to restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two cents - John
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
Timothy Pearson wrote:
Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to
root?
Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser"
icon
is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the
trash or
delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on
Debian; they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply deselect the icons you don't
want
to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to
the
old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would
other icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group: users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows: OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it into a disable but that would leave the user ignorant of how to restore it. I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Yes.
Perhaps the menu item should be "Enable/Disable Desktop Icons" or we may simply make it pertain to the specific icon and have a "Hide This Icon" context menu item. That would still leave users ignorant of how to restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two cents
The best way to handle this might be to trap the delete, and pop up a message box with a quick description of how to restore the icon. However, I'm not sure that such a change can be made for 3.5.12 due to the freeze.
Thoughts on this method?
Tim
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:44 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
Timothy Pearson wrote:
Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to
root?
Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser"
icon
is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the
trash or
delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on
Debian; they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply deselect the icons you don't
want
to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to
the
old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would
other icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group: users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows: OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it into a disable but that would leave the user ignorant of how to restore it. I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Yes.
Perhaps the menu item should be "Enable/Disable Desktop Icons" or we may simply make it pertain to the specific icon and have a "Hide This Icon" context menu item. That would still leave users ignorant of how to restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two cents
The best way to handle this might be to trap the delete, and pop up a message box with a quick description of how to restore the icon. However, I'm not sure that such a change can be made for 3.5.12 due to the freeze.
Thoughts on this method?
Tim
That sounds reasonably intuitive. The primary end user behavior (press or click delete) is preserved - John
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:44 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
On Thu, 2010-09-23 at 12:19 -0500, Timothy Pearson wrote:
Timothy Pearson wrote:
> Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong
to
root?
> Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web
browser"
icon
> is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the
trash or
> delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system. >
I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on
Debian; they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply deselect the icons you
don't
want
to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar
to
the
old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would
other icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group: users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to
me
"user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows: OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or
she
deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin.
User
A later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has
been
deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new
profile
from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for
the
icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing
user
profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy
a
file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user
or
developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When
User
B wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system
directory
where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon
.desktop
file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian
users
on this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
I think the technology is sound but the user experience is probably non-intuitive. I thought about capturing the delete and turning it
into
a disable but that would leave the user ignorant of how to restore it. I wonder if there should be a context menu item for "Configure Desktop Icons" which would point to Device Icons. I also assume it is all configurable via rc files in Kiosk mode.
Yes.
Perhaps the menu item should be "Enable/Disable Desktop Icons" or we
may
simply make it pertain to the specific icon and have a "Hide This
Icon"
context menu item. That would still leave users ignorant of how to restore it but would probably be the most intuitive. Just my two
cents
The best way to handle this might be to trap the delete, and pop up a message box with a quick description of how to restore the icon. However, I'm not sure that such a change can be made for 3.5.12 due to the freeze.
Thoughts on this method?
Tim
That sounds reasonably intuitive. The primary end user behavior (press or click delete) is preserved - John
OK, it has been implemented in revision 1178835. Binary packages will be available within 24 hours.
Tim
Timothy Pearson wrote:
Timothy Pearson wrote:
Also on the Squeeze install all the icons on the desktop belong to root? Including trash and my documents, a strange "konqueror web browser" icon is on the desktop belonging to root and I can not put it in the trash or delete it, this is definitely not a "point-n-click" system.
I was not sure if those icons should be included by default on Debian;
they can be removed easily enough through the use of Configure
Desktop->Behavior->Device Icons. Simply deselect the icons you don't want to see and they will magically disappear. This feature is similar to the old Microsoft system icons system; you cannot delete as you would other
icons because they are part of the desktop itself.
On my laptops Lenny install I have icons, webcam, documents, home,
system and trash, all those icons belong to "user: jimmy", "group: users", this has nothing to do with device icons, the Trinity Squeeze system says all the icons belong to root and that is the problem.
Even your Trinity on Ubuntu says the icons on the desktop belong to me
"user: jimmy, group: jimmy" I can add and remove what I want.
You can remove those icons from within the "Device Icons" page. The reasoning behind making them root owned (and therefore impossible to delete from the desktop through "normal" means) is as follows: OLD WAY: User A decides to remove an icon from the desktop. He or she deletes said icon through the delete key and empties the trash bin. User A later on decides that he or she wants the icon back. Since it has been deleted, the only obvious way to get it back is to create a new profile from scratch (most people don't know about /etc/skel). This is not exactly user-friendly!
OLD WAY: Developer A notices that one of the icons is broken on some systems, so he decides to change the .desktop file responsible for the icon. However, there is no way to propagate the change to existing user profiles, as /etc/skel is only copied on first login. Therefore, the developer has to instruct people to recreate their profiles, or copy a file from /etc/skel and change permissions on it. This is not user or developer friendly, and acts to make Trinity less accessible to the average user.
NEW WAY: User B deactivates the icon through "Device Icons". When User B wants the icon back, it is available in "Device Icons" and can be reenabled with a few mouse clicks.
Developer B propagates a .desktop file changes to the system directory where the icons are stored. All users receive the updated icon .desktop file transparently.
What I can do is to change the default under Debian to not show the icons by default, however I would like some input from the other Debian users on this list as well. Thoughts?
Tim
Ok, now I see and understand what you have done.
You have added the Desktop Icons to Control Center, Desktop, Behavior, Device Icons tab so they can be controlled just like the Devices are by simply checking or un-checking a box, thanks, I like it and yes I see it as an improvement. :-D
Sorry to give you such a hard-time about something I did not see or understand. :-(
-
Jimmy Johnson -
John A. Sullivan III -
Timothy Pearson