If I want to delete all of Samba, kmail-trinity, konqueror-trinity, tdebase-trinity would get destroyed too (Raspbian Jessie here, but I've come accross the same problem with the other distributions).
I fail to see why these dependencies exist. I can imagine situations where kmail, konqueror and tdebase could need Samba, but many more where they don't.
I have no Windows machine so I never use samba.
Thierry
Am Samstag, 2. Juli 2016 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
If I want to delete all of Samba, kmail-trinity, konqueror-trinity, tdebase-trinity would get destroyed too (Raspbian Jessie here, but I've come accross the same problem with the other distributions).
I fail to see why these dependencies exist. I can imagine situations where kmail, konqueror and tdebase could need Samba, but many more where they don't.
I have no Windows machine so I never use samba.
Thierry
That's a thing that I would like to get rid of, too.
Nik
On Saturday 02 July 2016 08:39:55 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Am Samstag, 2. Juli 2016 schrieb Thierry de Coulon:
If I want to delete all of Samba, kmail-trinity, konqueror-trinity, tdebase-trinity would get destroyed too (Raspbian Jessie here, but I've come accross the same problem with the other distributions).
I fail to see why these dependencies exist. I can imagine situations where kmail, konqueror and tdebase could need Samba, but many more where they don't.
I have no Windows machine so I never use samba.
Thierry
That's a thing that I would like to get rid of, too.
Nik
I am pretty sure that would kill printer shareing on ones local network, which I find is at least as handy as bottled beer.
And I miss-spelled your last name in my previous post, Nik, my apologies.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
On Saturday 02 of July 2016 13:08:18 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
If I want to delete all of Samba, kmail-trinity, konqueror-trinity, tdebase-trinity would get destroyed too (Raspbian Jessie here, but I've come accross the same problem with the other distributions).
I fail to see why these dependencies exist. I can imagine situations where kmail, konqueror and tdebase could need Samba, but many more where they don't.
I have no Windows machine so I never use samba.
Thierry
As I explored dependency comes from tdebase-tdeio-plugins-trinity. These depend on libsmbclient and that consequently on samba-libs. However, not on samba as such == not on the samba server.
On Saturday 02 July 2016 07:08:18 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
If I want to delete all of Samba, kmail-trinity, konqueror-trinity, tdebase-trinity would get destroyed too (Raspbian Jessie here, but I've come accross the same problem with the other distributions).
I fail to see why these dependencies exist. I can imagine situations where kmail, konqueror and tdebase could need Samba, but many more where they don't.
I have no Windows machine so I never use samba.
Neither have I. Same with aptitude, I can't remove it, IMSNHO its a dangerous utility as it destroyed my system about 2 weeks ago, requiring I re-install 236 packages. I haven't nuked the executables yet, but I just did a chmod -x on the /usr/bin/aptitude-curses. Now I sit back and see what complains.
Same thing essentially with nfs. I found, with Dr. N. Klept's help, that sshfs is much more transparent, and faster than nfs once setup, qualifying it for a Just Works(TM) label.
The only dependency I can think of for samba/cifs, is cups uses it I believe for network shared printer discovery. This makes all the printers configured and usable from this machine, available for use from the other 4, soon to be 5 machines on my local network. But its also watching paint dry slow at that discovery, taking a browser about 10 seconds to display localhost:631/printers.
Thierry
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
On Saturday 02 July 2016 14:21:36 Gene Heskett wrote:
Same with aptitude, I can't remove it
That's unusual. Are you sure, Gene? I know that your system is not quite standard, but often in past Debian installs, not only has aptitude not been a dependency, it has not even been there and I have had to install it myself. In fact, there was a discussion quite recently on the Debian list as to whether aptitude should be installed by default.
Here is the first post in what turned out a fairly long thread. https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/375717CA-88D6-4CF6-8D60-2A133DF3552F@p...
Lisi
On Saturday 02 July 2016 09:39:31 Lisi Reisz wrote:
On Saturday 02 July 2016 14:21:36 Gene Heskett wrote:
Same with aptitude, I can't remove it
That's unusual. Are you sure, Gene? I know that your system is not quite standard, but often in past Debian installs, not only has aptitude not been a dependency, it has not even been there and I have had to install it myself. In fact, there was a discussion quite recently on the Debian list as to whether aptitude should be installed by default.
Here is the first post in what turned out a fairly long thread.
https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/375717CA-88D6-4CF6-8D60-2A133DF3552F@p...
Lisi
I followed all that as it went by Lisi, maybe even posted about it but forgotten now, old wet ram. If I try to remove aptitude, synaptic (or apt-get) says it will also remove around 30 some packages of trinity stuff including the base trinity install. Curious about how real the dependencies are, I've made aptitude-curses non executable, so now I sit back and wait for something to complain. If no complaints in a week , I'll rename it slightly and wait another week. After that, rm to the rescue.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 09:21:36 -0400 Gene Heskett gheskett@shentel.net wrote:
On Saturday 02 July 2016 07:08:18 Thierry de Coulon wrote:
If I want to delete all of Samba, kmail-trinity, konqueror-trinity, tdebase-trinity would get destroyed too (Raspbian Jessie here, but I've come accross the same problem with the other distributions).
I fail to see why these dependencies exist. I can imagine situations where kmail, konqueror and tdebase could need Samba, but many more where they don't.
I have no Windows machine so I never use samba.
Neither have I. Same with aptitude, I can't remove it, IMSNHO its a dangerous utility as it destroyed my system about 2 weeks ago, requiring I re-install 236 packages. I haven't nuked the executables yet, but I just did a chmod -x on the /usr/bin/aptitude-curses. Now I sit back and see what complains.
Hm... i would say you have damaged /var/lib/dpkg/status, because there is only 3 packages in debian which depend on aptitude and nothing depends on them. And aptitude normally doesnt destroy anything unless you ask it really-really hard, so this hints to it too.
Same thing essentially with nfs. I found, with Dr. N. Klept's help, that sshfs is much more transparent, and faster than nfs once setup, qualifying it for a Just Works(TM) label.
On slow links yes, sshfs is strictly superior to nfs, but on 1Gbit and faster links cpu usage becomes a factor, especially on server side. Sshfs would kill a typical nas-grade cpu on 1Gb.
Am Samstag, 2. Juli 2016 schrieb Nick Koretsky:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 09:21:36 -0400
Same thing essentially with nfs. I found, with Dr. N. Klept's help, that sshfs is much more transparent, and faster than nfs once setup, qualifying it for a Just Works(TM) label.
On slow links yes, sshfs is strictly superior to nfs, but on 1Gbit and faster links cpu usage becomes a factor, especially on server side. Sshfs would kill a typical nas-grade cpu on 1Gb.
My NAS has 24 cores, 256 gig RAM and runs FreeBSD :-)
Nik
Gene Heskett wrote:
Neither have I. Same with aptitude, I can't remove it, IMSNHO its a dangerous utility as it destroyed my system about 2 weeks ago, requiring I re-install 236 packages. I haven't nuked the executables yet, but I just did a chmod -x on the /usr/bin/aptitude-curses. Now I sit back and see what complains.
# dpkg --purge aptitude aptitude-create-state-bundle aptitude-curses aptitude-run-state-bundle aptitude-common aptitude-doc-en dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-create-state-bundle which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-curses which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-run-state-bundle which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-common which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-doc-en which isn't installed
I must agree with Lisi, aptitude is not required package. I'm on jessie. I stopped using any kind of package manager other than apt-get and dpkg.
regards
On Saturday 02 July 2016 14:19:21 deloptes wrote:
Gene Heskett wrote:
Neither have I. Same with aptitude, I can't remove it, IMSNHO its a dangerous utility as it destroyed my system about 2 weeks ago, requiring I re-install 236 packages. I haven't nuked the executables yet, but I just did a chmod -x on the /usr/bin/aptitude-curses. Now I sit back and see what complains.
# dpkg --purge aptitude aptitude-create-state-bundle aptitude-curses aptitude-run-state-bundle aptitude-common aptitude-doc-en dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-create-state-bundle which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-curses which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-run-state-bundle which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-common which isn't installed dpkg: warning: ignoring request to remove aptitude-doc-en which isn't installed
I must agree with Lisi, aptitude is not required package. I'm on jessie. I stopped using any kind of package manager other than apt-get and dpkg.
regards
This is essentially 32 bit wheezy, with a special, pinned, rtai patched kernel on the 3 machines actually moving metal cutting hardware. Same install on all 4 machines but because I've 8Gb of ram in this box, and the rtai patches destroy PAE, and in this case also put me 500 megs to a gigabyte into swap in 24 hours uptime, the kernel was unpinned and I went hunting for one that could see the 8Gb and use it, and could also run the simulated LCNC I use to write gcode from a comfy chair. Found it in 3.16.7-ckt25-2~bpo70+1 and pinned it again.
The other 3 machines have 2Gb or 4Gb of ram and have no such problems running the 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc kernel. And despite the PAE above, it is not PAE. It runs from power outage to power outage just fine.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene Heskett wrote:
This is essentially 32 bit wheezy, with a special, pinned, rtai patched kernel on the 3 machines actually moving metal cutting hardware. Same install on all 4 machines but because I've 8Gb of ram in this box, and the rtai patches destroy PAE, and in this case also put me 500 megs to a gigabyte into swap in 24 hours uptime, the kernel was unpinned and I went hunting for one that could see the 8Gb and use it, and could also run the simulated LCNC I use to write gcode from a comfy chair. Found it in 3.16.7-ckt25-2~bpo70+1 and pinned it again.
I didn't know 32bit pc can use 8GB RAM. I thought it was limitted to 4 because of the 32bit architecture.
On Sat July 2 2016 12:56:01 deloptes wrote:
I didn't know 32bit pc can use 8GB RAM. I thought it was limitted to 4 because of the 32bit architecture.
Each process is limited to 4GB (or a bit less in practice).
Virtual memory allows lots of 4GB processes. The Pentium Pro and Pentium 4 have 36 address pins and can address 64GB of physical RAM.
--Mike
On Saturday 02 July 2016 15:56:01 deloptes wrote:
Gene Heskett wrote:
This is essentially 32 bit wheezy, with a special, pinned, rtai patched kernel on the 3 machines actually moving metal cutting hardware. Same install on all 4 machines but because I've 8Gb of ram in this box, and the rtai patches destroy PAE, and in this case also put me 500 megs to a gigabyte into swap in 24 hours uptime, the kernel was unpinned and I went hunting for one that could see the 8Gb and use it, and could also run the simulated LCNC I use to write gcode from a comfy chair. Found it in 3.16.7-ckt25-2~bpo70+1 and pinned it again.
I didn't know 32bit pc can use 8GB RAM. I thought it was limitted to 4 because of the 32bit architecture.
Stick a fully functional PAE in the build config, and I believe it can use 64Gb.
But PAE takes time to do the translations, and rtai kills PAE because it needs every cycle it can get to run LinuxCNC if doing software step generation for stepper motors. Put a 20% time wibble in the step generation when the step rate s/b 40 khz and the motor loses at least 50% of its torque at the higher speeds, % of loss going up with the step rate, getting worse as the step rate goes up. With modern drivers that do microstepping*, the step rate coming out of the driver card can hit 300+ kilohertz. But then you are up against the speed limit of the opto-isolators in that micro-stepping drivers input. So those of us who play with steppers, usually have the divisor set so that top rpms is at about 200 kilohertz. Pure software generation is generally all tapped out at 30-35 kilohertz.
Your trivia factoid for the day. :)
*microstepping, where the driver can control the motors coil currents to do a successive approximation of 2 sine waves, 90 degrees out of phase. The motor then is balanced between steps, making a 1600 step motor out of the basic 200 step per revolution set of windings if the divisor is 8.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
On Saturday 02 July 2016 20:17:34 Gene Heskett wrote:
This is essentially 32 bit wheezy, with a special, pinned, rtai patched kernel
So you can't really, anyhow reasonably, blame Debian of any of its quirks.
Lisi
On Saturday 02 July 2016 18:18:17 Lisi Reisz wrote:
On Saturday 02 July 2016 20:17:34 Gene Heskett wrote:
This is essentially 32 bit wheezy, with a special, pinned, rtai patched kernel
So you can't really, anyhow reasonably, blame Debian of any of its quirks.
Lisi
'scuse me Lisi? Running on the hardware its designed to run on, zero problems that weren't caused by udev when I moved the hd from box to box looking for a usable one in the boneyard. Didn't find one either, had to go over a town and buy a driveless Dell 745 with 4Gb of dram in it. He had dozens, all off-lease. Its as happy as a clam once I figured out how to neuter udev. I will probably go dicker him out of another, dead stable machines to run this much bigger Sheldon lathe I just brought home. Well built, 1500 lbs of cast iron. But I am finding 64 years of use by non-machinists has not been kind to it, many things haven't been oiled in the 64 years its been around.
But if I don't fall over, it will get CNC'd, and be at least 10x more accurate than when it was new. And since gcode is write once, run many, its possible it may make more stuff in the next two years than it has made in the previous 64 years running manually.
Cheers, Gene Heskett
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
If I want to delete all of Samba, kmail-trinity, konqueror-trinity, tdebase-trinity would get destroyed too (Raspbian Jessie here, but I've come accross the same problem with the other distributions).
I fail to see why these dependencies exist. I can imagine situations where kmail, konqueror and tdebase could need Samba, but many more where they don't.
While I agree that so called dependencies don't always make sense, why is it important to remove samba?
I don't know what app actually depends on samba, but I have yet to trigger that dependency with my tdebase install.
This is one of the reasons I start with the basics (tdebase on text only base), being able to decide whether or not the required dependencies are worth it, e.g. I don't know how many of the raspbian X apps are gnome based (none installed), but I decided not to install epiphany after seeing the huge list of uninstalled dependencies.
Which raspbian and trinity did you use on your Pi?
On Saturday 02 July 2016 19.37:08 Dave Lers wrote:
While I agree that so called dependencies don't always make sense, why is it important to remove samba?
Not important in itself. I was just trying to remove things I don't use (as I have to live in 16GB) and Samba was one thing I don't use.
Which raspbian and trinity did you use on your Pi?
I simply downloaded the latest Raspbian after an older openSUSE for Pi would not even boot ( in the mean time I got a better understanding of the differences between the pi and "normal" computers). lsb_release answers Raspbian GNU/Linux 8.0 (Jessie)
I'll probably try a "Tumbleweed" install when I have another 16GB card available.
As I mentioned in previous mails, I followed your how-to and installed tdebase-trinity, then I used synaptic to add TDE programs I would use. Trinity Control Center says TDE 14.0.4 (Development).
The Pi is a Pi 3, "Model B"
Things seem to run pretty well now, except that the bluetooth keyboard I have behaves eratically. The Bluetooth mouse works ok, so do their USB counterparts. Wifi is working, resolution is set to 1824x984 on my Samsung monitor. Sound is not very good but acceptable if I switch from pulse to alsa.
Thierry
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
I simply downloaded the latest Raspbian after an older openSUSE for Pi would not even boot ( in the mean time I got a better understanding of the differences between the pi and "normal" computers). lsb_release answers Raspbian GNU/Linux 8.0 (Jessie)
I have one of the older PIs available with 512MB RAM - if I am not mistaken it has the ARM6 cpu. I also had to read about the boot process and used the raspbian repo. What I found really practical is the NFS boot. So I can boot with a 128/256/512MB card and have whatever I want on the NFS. Unfortunately I found out that 256/512MB of RAM is not sufficient to run X and didn'T make it to try TDE either, but this approach was pretty easy and fast compared to having all of this on a card.
I could easily copy the root directory to a card anyway, whenever needed, or perhaps on usb stick as PI cares only about the boot partition and you can tell your initrd where to find the root.
Perhaps this could be useful to you as well.
regards
Thierry de Coulon wrote:
On Saturday 02 July 2016 19.37:08 Dave Lers wrote:
Which raspbian and trinity did you use on your Pi?
I simply downloaded the latest Raspbian after an older openSUSE for
I'm guessing that means you installed Raspbian via NOOBS, not Raspbian Lite (https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/).
tdebase-trinity, then I used synaptic to add TDE programs I would use.
Somewhere along the line you got a lot more stuff on your system than I have on mine, e.g. samba... and pulse. I still have more than half of my 16GB card free (USB HDD for video and images).
It's good to hear that the new Pi3 hardware features work, disappointing that sound quality hasn't improved.
-
Dave Lers -
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Gene Heskett -
Lisi Reisz -
Mike Bird -
Nick Koretsky -
Slávek Banko -
Thierry de Coulon