Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
In addition to KPDF (which installed with TDE), I tried:
* KGhostView * evince * qpdfview * Okular * GIMP * LibreOffice Draw * Firefox
None of these printed the PDF as expected. So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file. Vivaldi does and in its print dialog, there is an option 'Print as image'. I selected this and the PDF printed perfectly.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On Tue July 13 2021 10:33:10 Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
Any hints in kpdf File/Properties/Fonts?
fonts-liberation contains free versions of the most common MSFT fonts.
ttf-mscorefonts-installer can install more comprehensive unfree versions.
I have these and about a dozen other font packages installed and its years since I had a missing font problem.
--Mike
On 7/13/21 1:58 PM, Mike Bird via tde-users wrote:
On Tue July 13 2021 10:33:10 Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
Any hints in kpdf File/Properties/Fonts?
fonts-liberation contains free versions of the most common MSFT fonts.
ttf-mscorefonts-installer can install more comprehensive unfree versions.
I have these and about a dozen other font packages installed and its years since I had a missing font problem.
--Mike
For the PDF in question, that displays numerous entries, showing Helvetica, Helvetica Bold, Helvetica BoldOblique, Helvetica Oblique and two entries displaying: [none]
The Helvetica entries show Type 1, no embedding. The two [none] entries show Type 3, embedded. fonts-liberation and fonts-liberation2 are already installed.
What is occurring, was that the layout of the PDF viewed with any of the aforementioned packages (except Vivaldi), wasn't 100% perfect. For example, spacing between the letters was uneven.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:12:47 -0400 Edward epp@caramail.com wrote:
For the PDF in question, that displays numerous entries, showing Helvetica, Helvetica Bold, Helvetica BoldOblique, Helvetica Oblique and two entries displaying: [none]
The Helvetica entries show Type 1, no embedding. The two [none] entries show Type 3, embedded. fonts-liberation and fonts-liberation2 are already installed.
Helvetica isn't a Microsoft font. It's a sans-serif commonly seen on Macs. The usual Microsoft replacement is Arial, but I don't think it's 100% metrically identical, so Liberation Sans wouldn't be either.
Of course, it's possible that the Helvetica fonts aren't actually used anywhere in the document and that the two nameless fonts are derivatives of something else altogether. That would be far from the stupidest thing I've ever seen anyone do with a PDF file.
What is occurring, was that the layout of the PDF viewed with any of the aforementioned packages (except Vivaldi), wasn't 100% perfect. For example, spacing between the letters was uneven.
That suggests a kerning problem, and possibly an unsuitable font substitution. You may want to dig into your distro's information on fontconfig. The command "fc-match Helvetica" can be used to see what your system's substitute for Helvetica is.
It's also possible the designer was a bonehead and adjusted the spacing between letters without embedding the font. That's . . . a little more difficult to fix.
E. Liddell
On 7/13/21 4:55 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:12:47 -0400 Edward epp@caramail.com wrote:
For the PDF in question, that displays numerous entries, showing Helvetica, Helvetica Bold, Helvetica BoldOblique, Helvetica Oblique and two entries displaying: [none]
The Helvetica entries show Type 1, no embedding. The two [none] entries show Type 3, embedded. fonts-liberation and fonts-liberation2 are already installed.
Helvetica isn't a Microsoft font. It's a sans-serif commonly seen on Macs. The usual Microsoft replacement is Arial, but I don't think it's 100% metrically identical, so Liberation Sans wouldn't be either.
Of course, it's possible that the Helvetica fonts aren't actually used anywhere in the document and that the two nameless fonts are derivatives of something else altogether. That would be far from the stupidest thing I've ever seen anyone do with a PDF file.
What is occurring, was that the layout of the PDF viewed with any of the aforementioned packages (except Vivaldi), wasn't 100% perfect. For example, spacing between the letters was uneven.
That suggests a kerning problem, and possibly an unsuitable font substitution. You may want to dig into your distro's information on fontconfig. The command "fc-match Helvetica" can be used to see what your system's substitute for Helvetica is.
It's also possible the designer was a bonehead and adjusted the spacing between letters without embedding the font. That's . . . a little more difficult to fix.
E. Liddell
~$ fc-match Helvetica texgyreheros-regular.otf: "TeX Gyre Heros" "Regular"
This is Debian 10.10 (amd64)
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Jul 17:21:44 -0400 Edward scripsit:
On 7/13/21 4:55 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:12:47 -0400 Edward epp@caramail.com wrote:
For the PDF in question, that displays numerous entries, showing Helvetica, Helvetica Bold, Helvetica BoldOblique, Helvetica Oblique and two entries displaying: [none]
The Helvetica entries show Type 1, no embedding. The two [none] entries show Type 3, embedded. fonts-liberation and fonts-liberation2 are already installed.
Helvetica isn't a Microsoft font. It's a sans-serif commonly seen on Macs. The usual Microsoft replacement is Arial, but I don't think it's 100% metrically identical, so Liberation Sans wouldn't be either.
Of course, it's possible that the Helvetica fonts aren't actually used anywhere in the document and that the two nameless fonts are derivatives of something else altogether. That would be far from the stupidest thing I've ever seen anyone do with a PDF file.
What is occurring, was that the layout of the PDF viewed with any of the aforementioned packages (except Vivaldi), wasn't 100% perfect. For example, spacing between the letters was uneven.
That suggests a kerning problem, and possibly an unsuitable font substitution. You may want to dig into your distro's information on fontconfig. The command "fc-match Helvetica" can be used to see what your system's substitute for Helvetica is.
It's also possible the designer was a bonehead and adjusted the spacing between letters without embedding the font. That's . . . a little more difficult to fix.
E. Liddell
~$ fc-match Helvetica texgyreheros-regular.otf: "TeX Gyre Heros" "Regular"
This is Debian 10.10 (amd64)
Devuan chimaera:
$ fc-match Helvetica NimbusSans-Regular.otf: "Nimbus Sans" "Regular"
Oh, and then there is that ugly Helvetica-replaced-by-blocky-font problem with firefox when you install xfonts package ...
nik
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
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On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:21:44 -0400 Edward epp@caramail.com wrote:
On 7/13/21 4:55 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:12:47 -0400 Edward epp@caramail.com wrote:
What is occurring, was that the layout of the PDF viewed with any of the aforementioned packages (except Vivaldi), wasn't 100% perfect. For example, spacing between the letters was uneven.
That suggests a kerning problem, and possibly an unsuitable font substitution. You may want to dig into your distro's information on fontconfig. The command "fc-match Helvetica" can be used to see what your system's substitute for Helvetica is.
It's also possible the designer was a bonehead and adjusted the spacing between letters without embedding the font. That's . . . a little more difficult to fix.
~$ fc-match Helvetica texgyreheros-regular.otf: "TeX Gyre Heros" "Regular"
This is Debian 10.10 (amd64)
For me, it's arial.ttf, but that's because I have the old Microsoft corefonts installed.
Okay, so if you type or copy and paste a bunch of text into an editor program and change the font to "TeX Gyre Heros", does it look okay, or does it display the same problems as your PDF?
E. Liddell
On 7/14/21 5:12 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 17:21:44 -0400 Edward epp@caramail.com wrote:
On 7/13/21 4:55 PM, E. Liddell wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 14:12:47 -0400 Edward epp@caramail.com wrote:
What is occurring, was that the layout of the PDF viewed with any of the aforementioned packages (except Vivaldi), wasn't 100% perfect. For example, spacing between the letters was uneven.
That suggests a kerning problem, and possibly an unsuitable font substitution. You may want to dig into your distro's information on fontconfig. The command "fc-match Helvetica" can be used to see what your system's substitute for Helvetica is.
It's also possible the designer was a bonehead and adjusted the spacing between letters without embedding the font. That's . . . a little more difficult to fix.
~$ fc-match Helvetica texgyreheros-regular.otf: "TeX Gyre Heros" "Regular"
This is Debian 10.10 (amd64)
For me, it's arial.ttf, but that's because I have the old Microsoft corefonts installed.
Okay, so if you type or copy and paste a bunch of text into an editor program and change the font to "TeX Gyre Heros", does it look okay, or does it display the same problems as your PDF?
E. Liddell
I tried this in LibreOffice Writer. Default font was Liberation Serif, which looked similar to Times New Roman.
Changing this text to the TeX Gyre Heros font, changed it and the result looked like Helvetica.
Although I will admit that I discovered an unusually large quantity of Noto fonts that are all foreign language characters, This caused the font list to hang in LibreOffice, so I have uninstalled those packages, it freed up over 600Mb on the hard drive.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On Tuesday 13 July 2021 12:33:10 pm Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
In addition to KPDF (which installed with TDE), I tried:
- KGhostView
- evince
- qpdfview
- Okular
- GIMP
- LibreOffice Draw
- Firefox
None of these printed the PDF as expected. So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file.
...
Vivaldi does and in its print dialog, there is an option 'Print as image'. I selected this and the PDF printed perfectly.
Sounds like a CUPS fuck up, maybe see if your printer got dropped (not that you'll ever get it back if CUPS dropped it)? Other than that I don't have any solution.*
Best, Michael
* Okay, a horribly sucky one :( . Find a Linux OS version that still prints correctly and install that in a VM (and never update it!).
Hi Edward,
13.Jul.2021 um 13:33 schrieben Sie:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF.
CUPS is in Linux the most preferred driver for printing. Have you looked into the settings (PPD) therein? Second method: install the specific driver from the manufacturer for your printer.
Regards Peter.
On 7/13/21 2:15 PM, phiebie@drei.at wrote:
Hi Edward,
13.Jul.2021 um 13:33 schrieben Sie:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF.
CUPS is in Linux the most preferred driver for printing. Have you looked into the settings (PPD) therein? Second method: install the specific driver from the manufacturer for your printer.
Regards Peter.
Hi.
It is using CUPS, with HPLIP, the printer is an HP OfficeJet 3830.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Jul 13:33:10 -0400 Edward scripsit:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
In addition to KPDF (which installed with TDE), I tried:
- KGhostView
- evince
- qpdfview
- Okular
- GIMP
- LibreOffice Draw
- Firefox
None of these printed the PDF as expected. So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file. Vivaldi does and in its print dialog, there is an option 'Print as image'. I selected this and the PDF printed perfectly.
You can use the file:// url in chromium to open a file:
$ chromium file:///path/to/file.pdf
Nik
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64) ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
On 7/13/21 2:16 PM, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
You can use the file:// url in chromium to open a file:
$ chromium file:///path/to/file.pdf
Nik
Thanks for the tip. Printing natively, it came out the same as via the aforementioned PDF viewer packages. Selecting 'Print as image', it prints perfectly.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On Tuesday 13 July 2021 01:16:12 pm Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Jul 13:33:10 -0400 Edward scripsit:
browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file.
You can use the file:// url in chromium to open a file:
$ chromium file:///path/to/file.pdf
Or probably just drag and drop the file into a Chromium tab? That works with most browsers, but someone with Chromium installed would need to test it...
On 7/13/21 2:40 PM, Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 13 July 2021 01:16:12 pm Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 13 Jul 13:33:10 -0400 Edward scripsit:
browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file.
You can use the file:// url in chromium to open a file:
$ chromium file:///path/to/file.pdf
Or probably just drag and drop the file into a Chromium tab? That works with most browsers, but someone with Chromium installed would need to test it...
Dragging the file icon from Konqueror (as a file manager) to Chromium, it placed the URL of the file in the address bar. Pressing the ENTER key, brought up the PDF.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021, Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
In addition to KPDF (which installed with TDE), I tried:
- KGhostView
- evince
- qpdfview
- Okular
- GIMP
- LibreOffice Draw
- Firefox
None of these printed the PDF as expected.
I haven't tested printing PDF from TDE yet. Whenever I had trouble in the past with PDF (both viewing and printing) I needed to install the MS truetype fonts. In openSUSE there is a package for that:
fetchmsttfonts | Helper package to run the fetchmsttfonts script
So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
Why do you think they may cause an issue with TDE? I have tons of programs installed from outside TDE including from other desktop environments. I believe it is the advantage in Linux that everything is modular and you can have different things running or installed at the same time (unless there are file conflicts, but the installer at least in openSUSE warns you about it).
Gianluca
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file. Vivaldi does and in its print dialog, there is an option 'Print as image'. I selected this and the PDF printed perfectly.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64) ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
On 7/13/21 2:19 PM, Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2021, Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
In addition to KPDF (which installed with TDE), I tried:
- KGhostView
- evince
- qpdfview
- Okular
- GIMP
- LibreOffice Draw
- Firefox
None of these printed the PDF as expected.
I haven't tested printing PDF from TDE yet. Whenever I had trouble in the past with PDF (both viewing and printing) I needed to install the MS truetype fonts. In openSUSE there is a package for that:
fetchmsttfonts | Helper package to run the fetchmsttfonts script
So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
Why do you think they may cause an issue with TDE? I have tons of programs installed from outside TDE including from other desktop environments. I believe it is the advantage in Linux that everything is modular and you can have different things running or installed at the same time (unless there are file conflicts, but the installer at least in openSUSE warns you about it).
Gianluca
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file. Vivaldi does and in its print dialog, there is an option 'Print as image'. I selected this and the PDF printed perfectly.
I was not sure if removing something installed by default, would cause issues. So I left KPDF and KGhostView installed and uninstalled the others.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
Why do you think they may cause an issue with TDE? I have tons of programs installed from outside TDE including from other desktop environments. I believe it is the advantage in Linux that everything is modular and you can have different things running or installed at the same time (unless there are file conflicts, but the installer at least in openSUSE warns you about it).
Gianluca
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file. Vivaldi does and in its print dialog, there is an option 'Print as image'. I selected this and the PDF printed perfectly.
I was not sure if removing something installed by default, would cause issues. So I left KPDF and KGhostView installed and uninstalled the others.
Ah OK, didn't know this is what you meant :)
Gianluca
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64) ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 01:33:10PM -0400, Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
Sounds to me like the PDF is broken.
PDFs should not depend on the fonts being installed in your system.
https://www.printivity.com/insights/2020/09/13/how-to-embed-fonts-in-pdfs/
It says something about the tech world that software written by the creators of the PDF standard, Adobe, produces broken PDFs by default.
In addition to KPDF (which installed with TDE), I tried:
- KGhostView
- evince
- qpdfview
- Okular
- GIMP
- LibreOffice Draw
- Firefox
If it were a problem with a buggy PDF renderer, I would expect at least one of those to handle it correct. The fact that *none* of them work suggests that the fault is the PDF itself.
None of these printed the PDF as expected. So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
Why bother uninstalling them? That just means you have to reinstall them next time you have a dodgy PDF that doesn't render nicely.
By the way, in my opinion, by far the best PDF viewer when it comes to rendering is xpdf, particularly if you can find the original rather than the forked version in Fedora. The user interface is extremely bare-bones, but I have never found a PDF it cannot render correctly. YMMV.
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file.
Open a new tab and type "file://" into the address bar. Hit Enter. That will give you a file listing that you can navigate to the file you want and open it.
P.S. http://www.angryflower.com/247.html
*wink*
On Wed, 14 Jul 2021, Steven D'Aprano via tde-users wrote:
On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 01:33:10PM -0400, Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF. This could be due to the fonts installed with Debian, where they are possibly not the same or ideal fonts for PDF's.
Sounds to me like the PDF is broken.
PDFs should not depend on the fonts being installed in your system.
I thought this is true only if the fonts are embedded in the PDF. It has happened to me in the past that a PDF would not render and print correctly until I had installed the MS TrueType fonts.
Gianluca
https://www.printivity.com/insights/2020/09/13/how-to-embed-fonts-in-pdfs/
It says something about the tech world that software written by the creators of the PDF standard, Adobe, produces broken PDFs by default.
In addition to KPDF (which installed with TDE), I tried:
- KGhostView
- evince
- qpdfview
- Okular
- GIMP
- LibreOffice Draw
- Firefox
If it were a problem with a buggy PDF renderer, I would expect at least one of those to handle it correct. The fact that *none* of them work suggests that the fault is the PDF itself.
None of these printed the PDF as expected. So I will be uninstalling all of the above, except for KPDF (so as not to cause any potential issues with TDE), LibreOffice Draw and Firefox.
Why bother uninstalling them? That just means you have to reinstall them next time you have a dodgy PDF that doesn't render nicely.
By the way, in my opinion, by far the best PDF viewer when it comes to rendering is xpdf, particularly if you can find the original rather than the forked version in Fedora. The user interface is extremely bare-bones, but I have never found a PDF it cannot render correctly. YMMV.
I also have both the Vivaldi (stable and Snapshot) and Chromium web browsers installed. Chromium does not offer an option to open a file.
Open a new tab and type "file://" into the address bar. Hit Enter. That will give you a file listing that you can navigate to the file you want and open it.
P.S. http://www.angryflower.com/247.html
*wink*
-- Steve ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://gianluca.today/
Department of Bioengineering University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. -----------------------------------------------------
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:59:49PM -0700, Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
Sounds to me like the PDF is broken.
PDFs should not depend on the fonts being installed in your system.
I thought this is true only if the fonts are embedded in the PDF. It has happened to me in the past that a PDF would not render and print correctly until I had installed the MS TrueType fonts.
Right. PDFs *should* have the fonts embedded in the PDF by default.
Some fonts will never embedded, because they are flagged as "No Embedding". And I suppose that people should be able to disable font embedding if they choose. But I stand by my claim that by default PDF creator software ought to embed fonts.
On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 01:06:51 +1000 "Steven D'Aprano via tde-users" users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:59:49PM -0700, Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
Sounds to me like the PDF is broken.
PDFs should not depend on the fonts being installed in your system.
I thought this is true only if the fonts are embedded in the PDF. It has happened to me in the past that a PDF would not render and print correctly until I had installed the MS TrueType fonts.
Right. PDFs *should* have the fonts embedded in the PDF by default.
Some fonts will never embedded, because they are flagged as "No Embedding". And I suppose that people should be able to disable font embedding if they choose. But I stand by my claim that by default PDF creator software ought to embed fonts.
There's a whole bunch of messy intellectual property problems with that. Most people don't bother to investigate who their fonts belong to or what redistribution rights they have, and Windows and Mac OSX (both the OSs themselves and common software for them) ship with a lot of "all rights reserved" fonts, some of which may be legacy fonts without formal "no embedding" markers. So no, embedding fonts by default unfortunately would make a lot of people criminals, technically speaking.
E. Liddell
On 2021-07-16 11:14:26 E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 01:06:51 +1000
"Steven D'Aprano via tde-users" users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 10:59:49PM -0700, Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
Sounds to me like the PDF is broken.
PDFs should not depend on the fonts being installed in your system.
I thought this is true only if the fonts are embedded in the PDF. It has happened to me in the past that a PDF would not render and print correctly until I had installed the MS TrueType fonts.
Right. PDFs *should* have the fonts embedded in the PDF by default.
Some fonts will never embedded, because they are flagged as "No Embedding". And I suppose that people should be able to disable font embedding if they choose. But I stand by my claim that by default PDF creator software ought to embed fonts.
There's a whole bunch of messy intellectual property problems with that. Most people don't bother to investigate who their fonts belong to or what redistribution rights they have, and Windows and Mac OSX (both the OSs themselves and common software for them) ship with a lot of "all rights reserved" fonts, some of which may be legacy fonts without formal "no embedding" markers. So no, embedding fonts by default unfortunately would make a lot of people criminals, technically speaking.
E. Liddell
Embedded fonts also can inflate the size of a PDF file significantly, so most PDFs do not embed.
Leslie -- Operating System: Linux Distribution: openSUSE Leap 15.3 x86_64 Desktop Environment: Trinity Qt: 3.5.0 TDE: R14.0.10 tde-config: 1.0
On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 12:14:26PM -0400, E. Liddell wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 01:06:51 +1000 "Steven D'Aprano via tde-users" users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
[...]
Some fonts will never embedded, because they are flagged as "No Embedding". And I suppose that people should be able to disable font embedding if they choose. But I stand by my claim that by default PDF creator software ought to embed fonts.
There's a whole bunch of messy intellectual property problems with that.
Not really. Its quite simple: if the font has the "Allow embedding" flag turned on, embed it. Done.
Some Adobe products -- but not all -- already ship with font embedding enabled by default. Of course they honour the embedding permissions, but you don't have to enable a setting for them to embed the fonts you use if they allow embedding. They just go ahead and do it, even if you turn off embedding.
Quote:
"... most but not all of the .joboptions file font embedding options are totally and utterly ignored. The options that are ignored are the Embed all fonts, Embed OpenType fonts, Always embed, and Never embed."
https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign/fully-embedding-fonts-in-pdf/m-p/668...
The details are quite complex -- font embedding only embeds the glyphs, not the whole font, they may embed the special fourteen fonts that all postscript printers support, which most programs don't do, there are special rules for fonts used in editable text fields, blah blah blah. But for an application like LibreOffice, for example, all that we need is for the checkbox
Archive PDF/A-1a (ISO 19005-1)
to default to ON instead of OFF. There's no good reason for it to default to OFF. That's equivalent to "Embed fonts (if permitted)".
Most people don't bother to investigate who their fonts belong to or what redistribution rights they have,
It's not up to the user to check the permission bits, the PDF creator software should do that. (And ideally pop up a notice that "font X is used but cannot be embedded".)
and Windows and Mac OSX (both the OSs themselves and common software for them) ship with a lot of "all rights reserved" fonts, some of which may be legacy fonts without formal "no embedding" markers.
Unless you are referring to ancient bitmap fonts from the Dark Ages, I doubt that is even possible to have fonts without embedding permissions. And such ancient bitmap fonts can't be embedded.
OpenType fonts have *always* required such permissions, since the day the standard was invented. I think the same applies for TrueType fonts, they certainly have them now, and I'm quite sure (but haven't found a definitive source) that they too have always supported them.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2015/07/06/document-font-...
(Similarly for Postscript Type 1 and 3 fonts.)
But in either case, it doesn't really matter so long as the software follows a "default deny" approach: lack of permission flags is equivalent to forbidding embedding.
So no, embedding fonts by default unfortunately would make a lot of people criminals, technically speaking.
That's wrong: only fonts that explicitly permit embedding would be embedded.
But even if it were correct (say you use an application that fails to honour the embedding permission flags, or uses a "default allow" system), your argument is FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt).
Yes, embedding fonts in your PDF *might* make you a criminal. And forwarding an email (without or without attachments) *might* do the same. Nevertheless most mail clients default to quoting on reply and copying attachements when forwarding. Either of which *might* make you a criminal!
But it almost certainly won't.
Let's be real here: you're talking about a scenario where:
- the PDF creator software foolishly treats missing permissions as "allow" rather than "deny";
- the legacy fonts embedded are a format that doesn't include embedding permissions;
- their retail value is above $1000 (the threshhold in the USA for copyright infringement to be a criminal felony);
- the copyright holder of the legacy font still exists;
- and finds out you have embedded the fonts;
- and gives a shit about it;
- and aren't satisfied with just ordering you to cease and desist distribution;
- and persuade the legal authorities to care;
- and the authorities actually bother to press charges.
I don't think I'm going to lose sleep over that.
The issue I had with the PDF not displaying and printing as expected, turned out to be the PDF itself. I previously mentioned the MICR font in a prior e-mail. I looked at a different PDF that also contained this font and it displatyed perfectly.
With the first PDF, all of the document fonts listed as Helvetica, clearly was the issue.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On 7/20/21 4:14 PM, Edward wrote:
The issue I had with the PDF not displaying and printing as expected, turned out to be the PDF itself. I previously mentioned the MICR font in a prior e-mail. I looked at a different PDF that also contained this font and it displatyed perfectly.
With the first PDF, all of the document fonts listed as Helvetica, clearly was the issue.
With installing Adobe Acrobat Reader on my Android, this was confirmed while viewing the same PDF.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
On Tuesday 13 July 2021 12:33:10 pm Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF.
Additional info:
Problem with Libreoffice Draw with a PDF file https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=100&p=645394#p645394
^ I didn't read all that, but it seems like the same problem (and had at least a bit of explanation why).
On 7/23/21 6:05 PM, Michael via tde-users wrote:
On Tuesday 13 July 2021 12:33:10 pm Edward wrote:
Since installing Debian, I've had some issues printing PDF's, in that the resulting printout doesn't look exactly like the PDF.
Additional info:
Problem with Libreoffice Draw with a PDF file https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?f=100&p=645394#p645394
^ I didn't read all that, but it seems like the same problem (and had at least a bit of explanation why).
When I looked at the font info for the PDF in question, it was all-Helvetica, which would explain why what would have been the MICR line at the bottom, printed in a completely different font. It's likely due to the way the PDF was created. I looked at another PDF that also has a MICR line at the bottom and that PDF displayed as expected. I guess I probably didn't need to install the GnuMICR font in the first place, as it didn't actually solve the problem with the first PDF.
-- Linux. A Continual Learning Experience.
TDE: R14.0.10 - Debian: 10.10 (amd64)
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