My regular desktop died, and I have to purchase a new one.
I will be getting an ASUS Mini PC PN41, which is a rebranded Intel NUC:
- Intel Celeron N4500 - 4GB RAM - 128GB SSD
Which distro should I use in order to install TDE?
Requirements:
- Keep it simple. I can use commandline tools but prefer not to have to. - I would prefer to avoid systemd based systems.
My experience with systemd is that it really struggles to perform on low-powered fanless mini PCs like the Intel NUC boxes.
Looking at the list here
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Category:Documentation#Installing_from_a_Pac...
I *think* that Devuan is the only officially supported distro that is systemd-less. Is this correct?
Would anyone like to comment or make any other suggestions, before I go ahead with a Devuan install?
Thanks in advance,
Steve
On 12/16/24 6:55 PM, Steven D'Aprano via tde-users wrote:
I will be getting an ASUS Mini PC PN41, which is a rebranded Intel NUC:
- Intel Celeron N4500
- 4GB RAM
- 128GB SSD
Which distro should I use in order to install TDE?
Take your pick :)
But NOT Arch... If it were me, I'd probably use Debian or if you want to be closer to the bleeding-edge, then openSUSE Tumbleweed. As long as the distro packages TDE -- you will be fine -- it's all the same Linux under the hood.
The only differences between distros is what package manager they use and slight config and file location differences. From that standpoint, it doesn't really matter which distro you choose as long as it provides TDE (or provides a build-system, if you want to build it from source -- you don't want to be writing your own).
The only reason I say NOT Arch is there is no consistent TDE packaged for Arch and any packages are only provided through user-supported AUR. (Arch is a particularly difficult challenge as it follows current upstream releases, including kernel, gcc, glibc, Qt, gtk, ssl, tls, png, jpeg, etc... which means packages break first on Arch -- and the poor packager is left to patch TDE before it can build again...)
So as long as the distro you are thinking about packages TDE, then go with the one your familiar with, or take the challenge of learning something new. You will ultimately find, there is very little fundamental difference between them. Good luck!
On Mon December 16 2024 16:55:17 Steven D'Aprano via tde-users wrote:
Which distro should I use in order to install TDE?
In the last 30 years I have used Slackware, original Red Hat, Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, Devuan, and back to Debian. All have been productive. None are perfect.
I use Debian - with syvinit instead of systemd - on laptops, servers, and virtual machines. The laptops all run TDE. The principal apps are KMail, FireFox, LibreOffice, GnuCash, and QtCreator (and Steam).
Devuan is easier to get started if like me you prefer sysvinit over systemd but I worried about whether Devuan security was as timely as Debian so that is why I chose to go back to Debian.
--Mike
Anno domini 2024 Mon, 16 Dec 17:33:53 -0800 Mike Bird via tde-users scripsit:
[...] Devuan is easier to get started if like me you prefer sysvinit over systemd but I worried about whether Devuan security was as timely as Debian so that is why I chose to go back to Debian.
Devuan is basicly down to a shim layer of remove-systemd + repacking, everything else is debian.
Nik
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Anno domini 2024 Tue, 17 Dec 11:55:17 +1100 Steven D'Aprano via tde-users scripsit:
My regular desktop died, and I have to purchase a new one.
I will be getting an ASUS Mini PC PN41, which is a rebranded Intel NUC:
- Intel Celeron N4500
- 4GB RAM
- 128GB SSD
Which distro should I use in order to install TDE?
Requirements:
- Keep it simple. I can use commandline tools but prefer not to have to.
- I would prefer to avoid systemd based systems.
My experience with systemd is that it really struggles to perform on low-powered fanless mini PCs like the Intel NUC boxes.
Looking at the list here
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Category:Documentation#Installing_from_a_Pac...
I *think* that Devuan is the only officially supported distro that is systemd-less. Is this correct?
Would anyone like to comment or make any other suggestions, before I go ahead with a Devuan install?
Apart from anything not based on devuan .. all mainstream distros come with systemd and offer the same level of .. "security" (look up the xz story, the restart-services- problem from november etc, all related to systemd). You could go for the BSDs, but that's most likely not what you want :)
Nik
Thanks in advance,
Steve ____________________________________________________ tde-users mailing list -- users@trinitydesktop.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@trinitydesktop.org Web mail archive available at https://mail.trinitydesktop.org/mailman3/hyperkitty/list/users@trinitydeskto...
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On Tue, Dec 17, 2024 at 08:20 (+0100), Dr. Nikolaus Klepp via tde-users wrote:
Anno domini 2024 Tue, 17 Dec 11:55:17 +1100 Steven D'Aprano via tde-users scripsit:
My regular desktop died, and I have to purchase a new one.
I will be getting an ASUS Mini PC PN41, which is a rebranded Intel NUC:
- Intel Celeron N4500
- 4GB RAM
- 128GB SSD
Which distro should I use in order to install TDE?
Requirements:
- Keep it simple. I can use commandline tools but prefer not to have to.
- I would prefer to avoid systemd based systems.
My experience with systemd is that it really struggles to perform on low-powered fanless mini PCs like the Intel NUC boxes.
Looking at the list here
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Category:Documentation#Installing_from_a_Pac...
I *think* that Devuan is the only officially supported distro that is systemd-less. Is this correct?
Would anyone like to comment or make any other suggestions, before I go ahead with a Devuan install?
Apart from anything not based on devuan .. all mainstream distros come with systemd and offer the same level of .. "security" (look up the xz story, the restart-services- problem from november etc, all related to systemd). You could go for the BSDs, but that's most likely not what you want :)
I guess "mainstream" is in the eyes of the beholder. I consider Slackware to be mainstream, and it most certainly doesn't come with systemd. And is likely to be systemd-free for the foreseeable future.
(This is different than Steven's point about distos that are officially supported by TDE. There are "automatic" build scripts available for Slackware which meet my needs, although IIRC someone recently pointed out that they were missing some things.)
Jim
On Tuesday 17 December 2024 01:55:17 Steven D'Aprano via tde-users wrote:
Which distro should I use in order to install TDE?
I like MX-Linux, I find it's a good balance between to much and too little.
- Debian based (which means you can install directly from the Debian repos, not like *buntus) - Fast - good MX-Tools while keeping the Debian utils - Live distribution for install, that can be used for repair - Does not use systemd but has it onboard (can be booted with it if required) - easy access to flatpak (does use space but does not "pollute" your system when trying some apps) - Updates are great (just upgraded an MX-21 to an MX-23 because I had to move the SSD to a new machine, and MX-21 would not understand the graphic card).
TDE install is a (very) litle bit more complicated (but not much, just put the TDE stuff in a directory in /etc/apt/sources.d instead of in /etc/apt/sources.list
I suggest to try - the worst part is downloading, their server is very slow.
Thierry
Steven D'Aprano via tde-users wrote:
I will be getting an ASUS Mini PC PN41, which is a rebranded Intel NUC:
- Intel Celeron N4500
- 4GB RAM
- 128GB SSD
My experience with those very small factor PCs is that they make too much noise for example when using firefox and watching video.
Which distro should I use in order to install TDE?
I think it doesn't actually matter. Pick up the one that you know best.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2024 at 11:17:24AM +0100, deloptes via tde-users wrote:
My experience with those very small factor PCs is that they make too much noise for example when using firefox and watching video.
Curious. With no moving parts (SSD instead of spinning rust hard drive, and fanless) where is the noise coming from?
My dead desktop was an Intel NUC system, so basically the same as the ASUS unit I've ordered. The biggest problem was that if I was trying to do something CPU-intensive, it would get hot and the CPU would drop down to a slower speed. I dealt with that by pointing a USB desk fan at the unit.
Steven D'Aprano via tde-users wrote:
Curious. With no moving parts (SSD instead of spinning rust hard drive, and fanless) where is the noise coming from?
from the CPU fan
My dead desktop was an Intel NUC system, so basically the same as the ASUS unit I've ordered. The biggest problem was that if I was trying to do something CPU-intensive, it would get hot and the CPU would drop down to a slower speed. I dealt with that by pointing a USB desk fan at the unit.
OK, looks like a work around :) not applicable in my case.
Hello all,
Steven, I see you wrote about distro, but to this I can relate:
On Tuesday 17 December 2024 01:55:17 Steven D'Aprano via tde-users wrote:
My regular desktop died, and I have to purchase a new one.
I will be getting an ASUS Mini PC PN41, which is a rebranded Intel NUC:
I bought NUC and it is too noisy to my taste, noiser than my desktop. And then my desktop died, and I had to buy a replacement (this NUC I mentioned didn't qualify) and I bought as small desktop I could find that it showed some promise with the noise. I ended up with custom built, based on Phanteks Eclipse P200A D-RGB case, AMD Ryzen 5 4600G, CPU Noctua NH-U12S. With HDDs :-) It is dead silent 99.9% time, unless I for example convert some media file with ffmpeg, but programming, watching videos, I cannot hear it (I sit next to it). The noisest moment is when filesystem get the idea of defragmenting or something, but it comes from HDD.
My experience with systemd is that it really struggles to perform on low-powered fanless mini PCs like the Intel NUC boxes.
In the other mail you wrote "from the CPU fan". So it is no fanless, actually, right?
As for the distro itself, I won't recommend anything, because I am old dog and I use the distro I used year ago, which the distro I used a year ago, and so on :-) Which is openSUSE (Leap). I try to switch to TW, because I really hate all the fuss with upgrades, reinstalls, etc. and this is basically the main issue for me. TDE works just fine (I am using it with openSUSE TW, not a daily usage though).
Kind regards,
On 12/17/24 6:23 AM, Maciej Pilichowski via tde-users wrote:
I bought NUC and it is too noisy to my taste
I ended up with a NUC, and it is dead silent. Slight noise audible when it is maxed out. It is a HP EliteDesk (VOB98UP) an comes with an i5 cpu.
I could have got extremely lucky. But I took it apart and got all dust-bunnies out and it just boogies along without much chatter.
On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 11:55:17 +1100 "Steven D'Aprano via tde-users" users@trinitydesktop.org wrote:
Looking at the list here
https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/Category:Documentation#Installing_from_a_Pac...
I *think* that Devuan is the only officially supported distro that is systemd-less. Is this correct?
Gentoo, although mising from that list, is supported and systemd-less by default, but if you want a simple install, you're probably better off with Devuan.
E. Liddell
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David C. Rankin -
deloptes -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
E. Liddell -
Jim -
Maciej Pilichowski -
Mike Bird -
Steven D'Aprano -
Thierry de Coulon