Now here's another puzzle. I don't know if it's related to my previous question about unwanted visitors in top, but I decided that I ought to start a new thread.
I managed to get rid of those pesky unwelcome visitors, and imagined that I was on the way to having a machine that actually does what I want.
All of a sudden, most of my browsers will not launch at all. I even went on a spree, and downloaded lots of different browsers, just to try them out (and to see if I could get anything to connect to the Internet). Thus far I have installed urf, surf-raw, netsurf, netsurf-gtk, midori, epiphany chromium, icecat, links2, lynx, elinks, vivaldi-snapshot, seamonkey and palemoon. Firefox is of course already installed by default.
My regular browsers are icecat (to block everything that's unwanted) and palemoon (for when I am blocked from sites such as archive.org, etc.). I also use seamonkey for only one thing, which is a small blog that I don't really maintain much any more, but still like to check in. And I generally use vivaldi-snapshot for all my "business"-type stuff, where I must use a direct connection.
Until now, this system worked just fine, both on my desktop computer and (since early December) on this laptop. Now, suddenly, only palemoon will load at all, and I am blocked from archive.org. The only thing that I have changed is to remove non-free and contrib from the lines in my sources.list, since networking has worked fine without any non-free software.
And by the way, this is not, strictly speaking, off-topic, because it probably concerns tdenetworkmanager, or something like that.
Everything else that I've tested, so far, works okay. I can connect to the internet, I can send and receive emails, I can download stuff. When I check top, these browsers don't even seem to load. It's not like they start loading then crash; they don't even show up on top.
I am about to try an upgrade. And if that doesn't work, to add non-free and contrib to my sources ... but I would really rather not do that, since it seems like it ought to work without them.
Help, please! Any suggestions are welcome. Even snide comments and jokes would be a relief.
Bill
Hi Bill!
Fire up konsole, start htop and kill anything firefoxish you see.
Start another konsole, start firefox from within it so you get debug output.
look at htop and observe what happens.
Nik
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 25 Feb 11:10:11 -0800 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
Now here's another puzzle. I don't know if it's related to my previous question about unwanted visitors in top, but I decided that I ought to start a new thread.
I managed to get rid of those pesky unwelcome visitors, and imagined that I was on the way to having a machine that actually does what I want.
All of a sudden, most of my browsers will not launch at all. I even went on a spree, and downloaded lots of different browsers, just to try them out (and to see if I could get anything to connect to the Internet). Thus far I have installed urf, surf-raw, netsurf, netsurf-gtk, midori, epiphany chromium, icecat, links2, lynx, elinks, vivaldi-snapshot, seamonkey and palemoon. Firefox is of course already installed by default.
My regular browsers are icecat (to block everything that's unwanted) and palemoon (for when I am blocked from sites such as archive.org, etc.). I also use seamonkey for only one thing, which is a small blog that I don't really maintain much any more, but still like to check in. And I generally use vivaldi-snapshot for all my "business"-type stuff, where I must use a direct connection.
Until now, this system worked just fine, both on my desktop computer and (since early December) on this laptop. Now, suddenly, only palemoon will load at all, and I am blocked from archive.org. The only thing that I have changed is to remove non-free and contrib from the lines in my sources.list, since networking has worked fine without any non-free software.
And by the way, this is not, strictly speaking, off-topic, because it probably concerns tdenetworkmanager, or something like that.
Everything else that I've tested, so far, works okay. I can connect to the internet, I can send and receive emails, I can download stuff. When I check top, these browsers don't even seem to load. It's not like they start loading then crash; they don't even show up on top.
I am about to try an upgrade. And if that doesn't work, to add non-free and contrib to my sources ... but I would really rather not do that, since it seems like it ought to work without them.
Help, please! Any suggestions are welcome. Even snide comments and jokes would be a relief.
Bill
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On Friday 25 February 2022 11:20:23 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Bill!
Fire up konsole, start htop and kill anything firefoxish you see.
Start another konsole, start firefox from within it so you get debug output.
look at htop and observe what happens.
Nik
I get nothing from that. Firefox doesn't show up at all anywhere. However, I did manage to fire up the links2 browser, which gives me at least a little more internet access.
Bill
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 25 Feb 11:39:20 -0800 William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Friday 25 February 2022 11:20:23 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Bill!
Fire up konsole, start htop and kill anything firefoxish you see.
Start another konsole, start firefox from within it so you get debug output.
look at htop and observe what happens.
Nik
I get nothing from that. Firefox doesn't show up at all anywhere. However, I did manage to fire up the links2 browser, which gives me at least a little more internet access.
Ok, misunderstood you problem. It is not "browsers do not start" but "browsers start, but don't get to the net"? Caλn you post some addres you can't reach? e.g. can you ping 23.155.224.73 ? can you ping trinitydesktop.org?
Problem in my part of the word is that some tomatobrains try to bring "the" internet down - might be a problem with some jab charges, who knows. Anyway, it just results in braking normal access to clourdflare and some nameservers, but TOR works without problems.
Nik
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On Friday 25 February 2022 12:21:48 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
I get nothing from that. Firefox doesn't show up at all anywhere. However, I did manage to fire up the links2 browser, which gives me at least a little more internet access.
Ok, misunderstood you problem. It is not "browsers do not start" but "browsers start, but don't get to the net"? Caλn you post some addres you can't reach? e.g. can you ping 23.155.224.73 ? can you ping trinitydesktop.org?
Problem in my part of the word is that some tomatobrains try to bring "the" internet down - might be a problem with some jab charges, who knows. Anyway, it just results in braking normal access to clourdflare and some nameservers, but TOR works without problems.
Nik
No, actually it is still that most browsers don't even start, don't show up at all in either top or htop. I've tried starting from a konsole. At present, palemoon will start up, but I cannot connect to http sites (to download one of my favorite radio shows every week), and suddenly I cannot connect to archive.org.
That used to happen with icecat, because I block all javacript and images and everything else that I don't want. But I had no problems connecting; now neither icecat nor any of my other browsers (excepting palemoon and links2) will start up.
So the problem still remains: that most browsers do not start at all, excepting palemoon and links2. With palemoon I cannot connect to archive.org, but I still have some limited functionality. With links2, I can use it, but it's already somewhat limited, so I can't compare it to other more developed browsers such as firefox, icecat, vivaldi or chrome.
Bill
On Friday 25 February 2022 12:21:48 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Anno domini 2022 Fri, 25 Feb 11:39:20 -0800
William Morder via tde-users scripsit:
On Friday 25 February 2022 11:20:23 Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
Hi Bill!
Fire up konsole, start htop and kill anything firefoxish you see.
Start another konsole, start firefox from within it so you get debug output.
look at htop and observe what happens.
Nik
I get nothing from that. Firefox doesn't show up at all anywhere. However, I did manage to fire up the links2 browser, which gives me at least a little more internet access.
Ok, misunderstood you problem. It is not "browsers do not start" but "browsers start, but don't get to the net"? Caλn you post some addres you can't reach? e.g. can you ping 23.155.224.73 ? can you ping trinitydesktop.org?
Problem in my part of the word is that some tomatobrains try to bring "the" internet down - might be a problem with some jab charges, who knows. Anyway, it just results in braking normal access to clourdflare and some nameservers, but TOR works without problems.
Nik
Okay, so it appears that I don't necessarily have a problem connecting to various sites. Somehow or other, settings got changed in palemoon, and I don't have a clue why.
Cookies were enabled, for example, though I didn't find any that had actually been stored, so it seems it was reset during reinstallation. (Mind you, I copied over all my folders from my old desktop, so that my user settings ought to have stayed the same.) Likewise, I was blocked from certain sites due to a palemoon extension, https enforcer; which I had already installed and enabled before, but now unaccountably my settings were changed to block all http connections. I don't generally allow them, but there are certain pages that still only have http, for example: http://www.bluesbeforesunrise.org/ -- which was a real crisis for a few hours, as I listen to this show religiously.
Anyway, so getting blocked from various sites seems to be a non-issue, and only distracts from the main problem, which is why only a couple browsers will start up. And they are two rather non-mainstream browsers. I can live for a while without these other browsers, but eventually I will need to check my bank account, or buy something online, and will need vivaldi. And some of my research, due to my unwholesome interest in history and such, is only ever conducted with an ultra-secure browser like icecat over Tor.
The thing is, I've been using this laptop since about the first week or so of December, and within the first day or two I had it running pretty well. If anything, I've gradually got rid of any problems, and it seemed like I was almost *there* (wherever that is), where I could just do what I do and stop thinking about the machine itself all the time.
Now all of a sudden this issue, with almost none of my usual browsers able to start up at all: it's blind-sided me, and I don't even know where to look for the cause.
I'm considering uncommenting those lines and trying non-free and contrib in my sources, just to see if it has any effect. But that sounds crazy, since I have an internet connection, can download stuff, can send and receive emails, and at least two of my browsers do actually work, sort of.
Unless there is any good reason to suppose otherwise, I will assume that there is a common cause for these things (non-starting browsers), and that the exceptions to the rule (those browsers that do start up, namely palemoon and links2) must have something in common, besides being rather non-mainstream, that sets them apart.
Bill
Bill
On Friday 25 February 2022 02:10:11 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Now here's another puzzle. I don't know if it's related to my previous question about unwanted visitors in top, but I decided that I ought to start a new thread.
I managed to get rid of those pesky unwelcome visitors, and imagined that I was on the way to having a machine that actually does what I want.
All of a sudden, most of my browsers will not launch at all. I even went on a spree, and downloaded lots of different browsers, just to try them out (and to see if I could get anything to connect to the Internet). Thus far I have installed urf, surf-raw, netsurf, netsurf-gtk, midori, epiphany chromium, icecat, links2, lynx, elinks, vivaldi-snapshot, seamonkey and palemoon. Firefox is of course already installed by default.
My regular browsers are icecat (to block everything that's unwanted) and palemoon (for when I am blocked from sites such as archive.org, etc.). I also use seamonkey for only one thing, which is a small blog that I don't really maintain much any more, but still like to check in. And I generally use vivaldi-snapshot for all my "business"-type stuff, where I must use a direct connection.
Until now, this system worked just fine, both on my desktop computer and (since early December) on this laptop. Now, suddenly, only palemoon will load at all, and I am blocked from archive.org. The only thing that I have changed is to remove non-free and contrib from the lines in my sources.list, since networking has worked fine without any non-free software.
And by the way, this is not, strictly speaking, off-topic, because it probably concerns tdenetworkmanager, or something like that.
Everything else that I've tested, so far, works okay. I can connect to the internet, I can send and receive emails, I can download stuff. When I check top, these browsers don't even seem to load. It's not like they start loading then crash; they don't even show up on top.
I am about to try an upgrade. And if that doesn't work, to add non-free and contrib to my sources ... but I would really rather not do that, since it seems like it ought to work without them.
Help, please! Any suggestions are welcome. Even snide comments and jokes would be a relief.
Bill
1. reboot your modem/router/ etc 2. reboot your box 3. open a root terminal and enter dhclient eth0 -v (or equivalent for your distro) and see what it says (assuming there's still a problem).
Another box test: 1. see if you can connect to the net using the same cable on another box
Onto mechanical errors: 1. check your cables for damage 2. try new cables
ISP: 1. call your ISP and see if they're having an outage.
Kate The Great Potato Overlord
On Friday 25 February 2022 01:10:11 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Now here's another puzzle. I don't know if it's related to my previous question about unwanted visitors in top, but I decided that I ought to start a new thread.
I managed to get rid of those pesky unwelcome visitors, and imagined that I was on the way to having a machine that actually does what I want.
All of a sudden, most of my browsers will not launch at all.
Add back, one at a time, those pesky visitors.
And by the way, this is not, strictly speaking, off-topic, because it probably concerns tdenetworkmanager, or something like that.
From what I remember of you strange visitor posts, it probably is (off topic) as it sounded more like Gnome BS than anything TDE.
You are on a Debian derivative? If so, I have no Gnome(s), so if you'll post what packages you removed to get rid of the visitors, I’ll see if they’re installed here. (Which might bring it back on topic??????)
Best, Michael
On Friday 25 February 2022 11:42:40 Michael wrote:
I managed to get rid of those pesky unwelcome visitors, and imagined that I was on the way to having a machine that actually does what I want.
All of a sudden, most of my browsers will not launch at all.
Add back, one at a time, those pesky visitors.
I never did identify who or what they were, exactly, although E. Liddell seems to have tracked down one of them.
it sounded more like Gnome BS than anything TDE.
Well, it is only Gnome if I missed it somehow. I try to install only TDE, although I do rely on the xfce desktop until I get through the base system installation, and move to the TDE packages.
I keep xfce installed for troubleshooting, to see if I have problems there. I suppose I could try running those browsers in xfce to see if they'll start.
You are on a Debian derivative? If so, I have no Gnome(s), so if you'll post what packages you removed to get rid of the visitors, I’ll see if they’re installed here. (Which might bring it back on topic??????)
I went through a reinstallation of my OS, and had already pruned everything that seemed to be the cause. I believe that myself and others (thanks to E. Liddell!) traced them back to the originating processes, as much as possible. In any case, top looks normal to me now; except of course that only 2 of my 10 or so browsers will start.
Best, Michael
Since I have reinstalled my OS, the only evidence is what I posted to the mailing list. But as I recall, most of them were python3 stuff. I basically pruned back everything that I was installing, trying to add one thing at a time to get my laptop working like my desktop used to work. But moving to a different machine, which is newer, which has 64-bit architecture rather than 32-bit like my desktop, and upgrading to Devuan Chimaera, all those together mean that it's not a perfectly smooth transition to the new machine.
Bill
On Friday 25 February 2022 02:07:50 pm William Morder via tde-users wrote:
On Friday 25 February 2022 11:42:40 Michael wrote:
I managed to get rid of those pesky unwelcome visitors, and imagined that I was on the way to having a machine that actually does what I want.
All of a sudden, most of my browsers will not launch at all.
Add back, one at a time, those pesky visitors.
I never did identify who or what they were, exactly, although E. Liddell seems to have tracked down one of them.
it sounded more like Gnome BS than anything TDE.
Well, it is only Gnome if I missed it somehow. I try to install only TDE, although I do rely on the xfce desktop until I get through the base system installation, and move to the TDE packages.
I keep xfce installed for troubleshooting, to see if I have problems there. I suppose I could try running those browsers in xfce to see if they'll start.
You are on a Debian derivative? If so, I have no Gnome(s), so if you'll post what packages you removed to get rid of the visitors, I’ll see if they’re installed here. (Which might bring it back on topic??????)
I went through a reinstallation of my OS, and had already pruned everything that seemed to be the cause. I believe that myself and others (thanks to E. Liddell!) traced them back to the originating processes, as much as possible. In any case, top looks normal to me now; except of course that only 2 of my 10 or so browsers will start.
Best, Michael
Since I have reinstalled my OS, the only evidence is what I posted to the mailing list. But as I recall, most of them were python3 stuff. I basically pruned back everything that I was installing, trying to add one thing at a time to get my laptop working like my desktop used to work. But moving to a different machine, which is newer, which has 64-bit architecture rather than 32-bit like my desktop, and upgrading to Devuan Chimaera, all those together mean that it's not a perfectly smooth transition to the new machine.
Uhg! Hmmm, try this? It shouldn't take too long, and doesn't make any changes to your new box.
- Download and build a MX21 Live USB. - Boot from that.
https://mxlinux.org/download-links/
Pick the kernal that's closest to what you've got installed now. (Run "inxi -S" to see what you've got now.)
In any event, MX21 should be the same base debian as your devuan, so you can run top and see it it's got the same 3 unwelcome visitors. If it does, then, hey!, they're not unwelcome :)
Best, Michael
On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 11:10:11AM -0800, William Morder via tde-users wrote:
Now here's another puzzle. I don't know if it's related to my previous question about unwanted visitors in top, but I decided that I ought to start a new thread.
I managed to get rid of those pesky unwelcome visitors, and imagined that I was on the way to having a machine that actually does what I want.
All of a sudden, most of my browsers will not launch at all.
You are using a new computer with a new OS, one you are not familiar with. You removed three software components, that you have *no idea* what they do or why they were installed or what other software relies on them, without checking with people who are familiar with your OS. And then immediately after removing them, most of your browsers stopped working.
Must be a coincidence.
The only thing that I have changed is to remove non-free and contrib from the lines in my sources.list, since networking has worked fine without any non-free software.
Well that's not true, is it? You removed at least three packages, or possibly just deleted the files, it isn't clear. And then installed a whole lot of new browsers, and their dependencies.
What else has changed?
Have you run any updates? Or auto-updates from the OS? Reinstalled packages? Deleted something else?
And by the way, this is not, strictly speaking, off-topic, because it probably concerns tdenetworkmanager, or something like that.
If you can send email, and you can, and at least one browser continues to see the internet, and it does, then it is not a network issue.
Everything else that I've tested, so far, works okay. I can connect to the internet, I can send and receive emails, I can download stuff.
Right. So its not a tdenetworkmanager issue.
When I check top, these browsers don't even seem to load. It's not like they start loading then crash; they don't even show up on top.
What happens when you launch the browser from the command line?
Please copy and paste the command you use, and **all** the output.
(Not all programs send error messages to the console when launched from the command line, but many of them do.)
Have you looked at your logs for error messages?
Well that's not true, is it? You removed at least three packages, or possibly just deleted the files, it isn't clear. And then installed a whole lot of new browsers, and their dependencies.
What else has changed?
I did not remove these packages; I removed those programs that were calling these processes. I searched apt-get for anything with them, found some things that I could get rid of, and uninstalled those packages, so that they would not cause these processes to run.
Have you run any updates? Or auto-updates from the OS? Reinstalled packages? Deleted something else?
No auto updates or auto anything. I like to do everything with my own two reasonably clean hands.
If you can send email, and you can, and at least one browser continues to see the internet, and it does, then it is not a network issue.
Everything else that I've tested, so far, works okay. I can connect to the internet, I can send and receive emails, I can download stuff.
Right. So its not a tdenetworkmanager issue.
Please copy and paste the command you use, and **all** the output.
Did that. See the other email.
(Not all programs send error messages to the console when launched from the command line, but many of them do.)
Have you looked at your logs for error messages?
Bill
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Borg Labs -
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp -
Michael -
Steven D'Aprano -
William Morder